#Lions2017: After good start for Gatland, Bob Skinstad looks ahead to Blues matchup

With the first hurdle overcome, Warren Gatland’s 2017 Lions squad moves into another big encounter against the All Black-laden Auckland Blues on Wednesday. Former Springbok captain Bob Skinstad offers the ultimate neutral’s perspective of the greatest of rugby tours – and in this podcast looks back on some positives that the red shirted warriors can take from the weekend’s match. Skinstad draws on his own experiences to explain how the stinging criticism of the Lions’ first match will affect the tourists. Fascinating insights. – Alec Hogg

Well, it’s welcome as ever to Bob Skinstad. The Lions tour started over the weekend. Bob let’s get the review out of the way first and then we’ll have a look at the game that’s coming up on Wednesday against the Blues. A jittery start.

Well, it certainly was Alec. You know, I think we mentioned that the bookies were giving them 25 points plus and I thought that we should be a bit more conservative than that but even I was incorrect. The Barbarians came out absolutely firing and well done to them because I think it was a young side playing together as a group for the first time and they gave the Lions a real shock, you know. I think you can manage a million different excuses but one of them would be travel time, jetlag, and three days of preparation and I concede that and that affected the first 50 minutes. Then the lions started to play a bit more together and the juggernauts started to roll.

Those changes that were made by the coach, how much of an impact did they have?

They had a huge impact. I mean if you look at all the players in general. Let’s just talk about everybody who was on the field for the Lions, the general consensus is a big thumbs up for Palupe, Toby Faletau, Ben Te’o, Owen Farrell as well and try scorer Anthony Watson, but then thumbs down for Stuart Hogg, thumbs down for Johnny Sexton and then a number of players who’ve had test match experience that certainly didn’t play their best. So, I think the changes that came on, we saw Owen Farrell control the game and you’ve got to give a little doff of the cap to Bryn Gatland. We felt the fact that Warren Gatland’s son was starting at fly half and wasn’t he immense for a guy with no test match experience, he absolutely bossed the game, he kicked beautifully to the corners, he turned over possession into meaningful territory for his team and I think made a massive difference.

He’s still a youngster.

2017 British & Irish Lions coach Warren Gatland

Yes, he’s a real youngster, you know I think he’s 21 and Warren Gatland mentioned a number of times, you know, I spoke to Bryn after the game to get his take. I mean he was visibly delighted that his son had done well, but he’d still won his game. So, a win-win all round for the Gatland family, but I spoke to Bryn. Bryn said that the pace of the game (and this is important), that the pace of the game was no different to some of the Super Rugby games that he’d been playing but the physicality was definitely higher and he felt that that’s what eventually wore his team down. Gatland’s taken that as a very big positive that his team can physically match the New Zealand players and I think that’s something that we’ll see highlighted more and more as the tour goes on.

Bob what kind of impact will the performances of the few that you mentioned that didn’t shine have on their chances of actually breaking into the Lions test team?

I mean that’s the big question, you know. So, was that their one and only chance? I don’t think so. We’ve mentioned how long this tour is. The upcoming game now is again against Super Rugby level players, some international stars as part of that and they’ve changed the starting line-up and you know it’s a sort of a roll on of the next players who are getting ready to play. I think if you look at whom they’ve picked now; it’ll be their chance to have the first runout.

Also read: British & Irish Lions could easily claw their way to victory against All Blacks: analysis

Once that’s by the by, you never know. I mean, we might have, let’s use this as a good example, Stuart Hogg was the starting fullback on the weekend, and Leigh Halfpenny is the starting fullback this weekend. Both of them are international class, both of them are Lions class. We know that and they’re outstanding players, but both of them might have a five out of ten game, you know, so what do you do then? You have to pick one of them to start coming up, so do you go with the coach’s instinct? I still think there are many pieces to fall in place, so I don’t think that anyone has written himself off completely but every game that you play and play well in the Lions jersey certainly stands you in very good stead.

As far as the fly half position is concerned, has Owen Farrell already cemented that?

Well, look I think Farrell was hands down favourite going into the tour. I think what happened on the weekend was, Sexton failed himself, and Owen Farrell did himself absolutely no harm. He came on, wrestled the game back from the brink and took control, took charge just like we’ve seen him do for Saracens, just like we’ve seen him do for England and he proved he could do that for the Lions, so I think it was a really good indication that he is the number one choice in that position. Remember that all of the conjecture around this has been, does Farrell play better at ten or at twelve, you know, do you do what Eddie Jones did and play him alongside George Ford?

There are different options and I think Gatland’s going to keep his cards close to his chest there, but he certainly now knows what he’s got in his starting flyhalf and I think Owen Farrell’s definitely put a marker down. Remember, on Wednesday night we’re going to see Dan Biggar and he’s the other player in that position. If Biggar has a good game, and then I think it might be the last we see of Johnny Sexton in a starting opportunity for the main team. However, the Lions tour is about surviving after injuries as well and we’ve seen many players come to the fore and make it into the squad because of injuries. I think it just adds to the fun and the mix up of what could happen.

It’s always intriguing when you’ve got another nine games to go, a big game against the Blues. On paper, if the Lions struggled against the New Zealand Provincial Barbarians then they might find the Blues a little bit too hot to handle. How are you reading it?

Yes, you make a good point, on paper, but how much of this is done on paper? I think that’s what we have to remember. I think every time the Lions go out, they get a little bit stronger, they’ve had to now re-gather. Remember, all the ex All Blacks, so Zinzan Brooke has come out saying “Pathetic”, Richard Lowe I mean I know these are guys who we do hear comment from them and potentially the media tries to make more of it than it is. But you know, they’ve had a real go at the Lions and for all that is, is fantastic fodder, you know to put a big newspaper article on the door of the change room and say, “Listen, these legends said that you guys were useless, why don’t you guys prove them wrong?”

You know, for me it’s the best possible motivation, the best way you could ‘G’ up a team and get them together and we’ve seen in all these documentaries about working with the Lions, how they really use that kind of motivation to ‘G’ themselves up. So, I certainly wouldn’t be writing them off like those guys. I think they’ll be disappointed with their game and you know, that for me is actually not a bad start to have a mucky, murky, bad win, is possibly the best way they could have started.

Bob, you’ve been there before. Have you been motivated with the Springboks by bad press?

Oh, absolutely, in fact, I’ll cite one example, is pre World Cup. In 2007, we took a team overseas to play in the Tri Nations, Jake White rested 20 frontline players, and I was skipper of that team. We went over there; we were 17/0 up against the Wallabies after 20 minutes. I mean, we ended up losing the game by four or five points, but the bookies had us at a 50-point loss. So can you imagine the difference that it makes when you’re part of that team, someone’s written you off, and you say, “Well, I’ll prove to you”.

You know, some people might walk away from a challenge like that, but everything in the nature of these Lions players and rugby players in general and sportsmen in general, you know, makes you competitive. That for me just gives you absolute carte blanche to play with as much fire and brimstone as you need, which leads us into the next game because that’s what they’re going to take into the match up against the Blues.

So when the biographies are written, perhaps they’ll say it’s the best thing that could have happened is the scratchy start but let’s talk about the Blues. They are supposedly the weakest of the Super Rugby teams that the Lions are going to face.

Well exactly, but then you look at the line-up and there’s All Blacks aplenty. They have an outstanding opportunity to see and play against Sonny Bill Williams, he’s facing a late fitness test, Rieko Ioane, who’s “The Bus” as they’re calling him. He’s just one of the Ioane brothers who’s a try scoring machine. James Parsons is the captain at number two and he’s been a brilliant player over the last two years, not quite an All Black cemented position yet, but certainly a performer. Charlie Faumuina, they’re going to have to probably going to be strumming against him anyway, Steven Luatua who has been loose forward for the All Black. So, I mean this is not a poor team by any stretch of the imagination, but you’re right, it’s the worst performing New Zealand Super Rugby team at the moment. I’m not sure that that’s that bad though.

So how have the Lions gone into this game?

They’ve changed their lineup and if you look at what I was mentioning earlier, the starting line-up goes, let’s just go from 15, so Halfpenny, Nowell, Payne, Henshaw, Elliot Daly, Dan Biggar. Now that’s a backline that anybody would be enviable of. Now Jack Nowell has just come off a selection, although he wasn’t starting selection for England and then scored a try to win the premiership over here for the Exeter Chiefs. Robbie Henshaw is an outstanding 12 who knocked over the All Blacks as part of Ireland at the end of last year. Elliot Daly is the big kicking winger for England who crashed over and scored a beautiful try against South Africa and the long-range kicks that broke their back. Dan Biggar and Rhys Webb have been playing for Wales together, so I mean, what a fantastic backline to go into your second game and you haven’t had to use anyone who was part of the backline in the starting game.

Then you have Jake McGrath, Ken Owens at hooker and captain and the Welsh international had its foot on ice for a little bit. I think he got a training ground injury. But what an amazing leader in the number two position and what a great chance for him to show that he can lead in this Lions team. Then you have Dan Coles, Maro Itoje and Courtney Lawes, I mean the physicality is just bursting here, James Haskell, Justin Tipuric, and then our favourite CJ Stander, so I mean what a team. Rory Best on the bench with Joe Marler on the bench, a couple of the guys who played on Saturday are on the bench. But the starting line-up for me is absolutely fantastic and I think it’s a great chance for us to get a gauge that if they can go and grind out a goodish win against the Blues in their second game, then we know that the all-round squad could perform for the Lions.

Bob, if you were to put the two Lions teams against each other, the Saturday team and this team, it’s hard to call at this early stage of the tour, but which one would be stronger?

File photo: The Irish team with flanker CJ Stander, second from left. Pic: Twitter (@IrishRugby)

Well, you know what, I’m going to be naughty Alec, I won’t answer straight away, but I’ll tell you which one would be more physical and that’s this team starting here and given the fact that Gatland has said that he wants physicality to be something that they really bring to the Super Rugby pace of the game is something that they’re always going to have in New Zealand, but the physicality is important. If you just look at Haskell, Tipuric, Stander, I mean the carries that they had in the Nations Cup, Courtney Lawes, Maro Itoge, is probably the most physical second row that you have in world rugby at the moment.

Courtney Lawes is the big tackling second ranker who carries the ball so much. Maro Itoge has been player’s player of the season two years in a row from Saracens in Premiership perspective. So, I think this is a bigger, more physical difficult pack with quite a slippery, fast backline, so I’m quite excited. I think this team for me would maybe tip the team that played against the Barbarians by three or five points, but that’s only because they know each other so well.

If you come from the neutral perspective and perhaps the African perspective, Maro Itoge might be a new name to many South Africans, but he does have Nigerian parentage and is a real superstar over here in the UK and of course CJ Stander, they will be the two that many will be watching, but what about other players in this team? Who should we be following here as a potential star of the tour?

I definitely think look out for Jack McGrath. He and Tadhg Furlong are the Irish bedrock of the front row. McGrath is absolutely important going forward in terms of managing the scrum. Watch out for James Haskell. He’s a late inclusion because Billy Vunipola missed out because of an injury, but he’s a very physical guy, he has a lot of chirp about him, a lot of attitude. He calls himself “The Banter King”. I think you’ve mentioned he was the Archbishop of Banterbury.

Not saying that that’s a great joke, but it certainly got me. thinking if he’s one of those guys who gets the team spirit up and he’s played alongside Lawes, alongside Itoge, alongside Marler on the bench and a couple of the other guys. I think look out for the physical side of these loose forwards. Tipuric, you know that I rate very, very highly as a linking and pacey loose forward, so I would watch that, watch our guys. Obviously, Stander and Itoge being part of that but then look at the contributions from Haskell and Lawes.

And the tactics going into this game, how can the couch spectator or the couch coach as most people tend to become, what do we look out for here as far as strategy is concerned?

First of all you’re right that we’re the couch coach. I think they say that rugby is the game played by 30 idiots, refed by an imbecile, watched by 90,000 experts at the stadium. So, I think we have to get a place on how to see what they’re going to play. I think watch for some big ball carrying, watch for some physicality, watch for some in your face stuff from Haskell, watch Dan Biggar try and control the game like they saw from Bryn Gatland and in the second half from Owen Farrell. Dan Biggar is a very, very good out of hand kicker. I think you’ll remember he’s the guy who has the multi twitch start to his game.

At the World Cup, we had a couple of South Africans who were laughing about it, saying that we’ll dance the ‘Biggarena’. So, Dan Biggar, I would say watch him, but then also watch Rhys Webb, a bid of a sniping game, so I think we’re going to see the ball used off the boot a lot, but then when the Lions have the ball, I think we’re going to see some big carrying and we’re going to see some physicality trying to wear down the Blues and not let them run.

Of course, the Lions have now been in New Zealand for a bit longer, it’s not just three days off the aeroplane. Those people who like to have a punt on a game like this, what would you be putting the spread at between the two and well, indeed, who do you think’s going to win?

Yes I do think the Lions will win this. I think the Blues might run them close. Remember the Blues have also just had a Super Rugby game. This is a Wednesday game for them, which would be mid-week. It’s a difficult game but then counter with that, the fact that they will raise their game and play against the Lions. I think the Lions should be too strong. If they allow the Blues to run freely and score, it’s going to be one of those games where it’s 25/20 or 30/25. I don’t think the Blues will be short of try scoring or people who are willing to carry the ball and score the tries, but I would still punt for the Lions by between seven and nine points.

So a high scoring game with the Lions to edge it.

That’s what I’m thinking.

Bob Skinstad, the former Springbok Rugby Captain, and 2007 World Cup winner giving us his insights into the Lions tour of New Zealand 2017.

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