#Lions2017: Bob Skinstad fears another Lions defeat in “4th Test” against Crusaders

LONDON — A fresh team with a new captain takes the field on Saturday as the British & Irish Lions face their unofficial Fourth Test match against New Zealand champions, the Crusaders. All Blacks account for half the Crusaders starting lineup and the team is coming off a record equalling 11 straight wins in Super Rugby, the sport’s toughest competition. In this review of the Blues match and preview of Saturday’s encounter, former Springbok captain and 2007 RWC winner Bob Skinstad provides the ultimate neutral’s insights. He says the sides are closely matched with a tight encounter is in prospect – plumping for a margin of only three points at the death. Skinstad does think the local side can hand the Lions their second successive defeat, but says just like in the first two games, even if they do lose the game is sure to provide another building block for Warren Gatland’s men. Skinstad reckons although the Crusaders start the most marginal of favourites (bookies have them winning by a point), the Lions are sure to improve from their first two games. So only the very brave should be considering a bet on this game. – Alec Hogg

I’m in London with Bob Skinstad. Bob, you just hear noise everywhere with the construction that’s going on. Hopefully, that doesn’t put too many people off. We’ve got lots to talk about on the rugby front.

Absolutely. The noise is something that I suppose, is causing us some stress as well while we’re doing an interview but noise is what’s made me think about what’s going on in New Zealand right now. We’ve seen this touring team lose to the Blues on Wednesday night and now everybody’s saying, “The test matches…it’s going to be a whitewash”. But let’s go back into what happened on Wednesday. We said the Blues were going to be very fit – very strong. It’s middle of the season. It’s not a tough game for them to add into their schedule. They’ve got a break coming up and they just proved that the Blues can beat anybody on their day. They’ve got quality players and for me, this game was all about Sonny Bill Williams’ experience and ability, and it was still a huge clash for 77 minutes of that game.

The Lions had clawed their way back into that game and a beautiful little offload from Sonny Bill Williams, just opened it up for our Ihaia West. He’s an outstanding player. He’d come in off the bench and played at 15 and ten before. He’s got real pace. He stood up Lee Halfpenny and was through under the poles and that was the difference in the entire game.

Bob Skinstad

How good is Sonny Bill Williams? Are the other All Blacks going to be of his calibre or his one of the stars?

Look, he’s just made it into the squad and we can go through some of the selections that they’ve made, but he hasn’t played for the All Blacks since the end of the World Cup in 2015, which he won. He’s a very interesting guy. I think he’s an amazing player, but he’s also very attuned to success and where he can gain success so he’s gone and tried to win himself an Olympic gold medal. He’s won world cups with New Zealand. He’s won NRL Super Rugby. Winning follows him and I think he really G’s up a team when he’s in it, so the All Blacks are going to try and trade on that star factor that he’s got but the Blues haven’t capitalised on it enough this season. He came back from an ankle injury at the end of last year. In September, he hurt his ankle in Sevens at the Olympics and it’s probably the first game where we’ve seen him dominate.

Sonny Bill Williams

He was very dominant in defence and very dominant on the attack when we saw what has been a contested try. He was really big in that game and I think that the Lions (we said) were going to have to be physical. They were going to have to play their game and I felt that they jumped into a pattern that allowed the Blues to dictate too much of the game for too long.

What do the Lions take out of this? It’s only the second game on tour and they’ve lost their unbeaten record.

Yes. Look, with a Lions tour, you obviously want to keep the unbeaten record if you can but at the same time, you’ve got to remember that Warren Gatland’s got to try and play all of the players. They’ve had two very different starting 15s so that’s a huge positive for them. He hasn’t got a huge number of injuries yet, which is another positive. He’s got another team starting this weekend against the Crusaders. If you thought the Blues were difficult, the Crusaders are going to be even more difficult (and we’ll get onto that), but the positives were that they clawed their way back into the game. They carried the ball beautifully. I felt that the second row fired… For 15 minutes of the game, they really dominated and it was the last 15 minutes or so that they showed really good fitness for an end-of-season tour. Then I also feel that the Blues are a top-level Super Rugby team who, like we’ve seen before, can play amazing rugby.

They showed that they came within a hair’s breadth of beating them. I’m loving the fact that there’s conjecture around it. Everybody’s saying, “Oh, well it’s just the Blues. It’s not the All Blacks.” The Blues of old were the All Blacks. You’ve got to take the positives where you can.

Looking ahead to the game against the Crusaders who’ve been on an unbelievable run…

They have. The Crusaders are undefeated this year in Super Rugby. They’re going to be the most difficult game (that’s not the All Blacks) for this team on tour, without a doubt. If you look at Scott Robertson, who’s the Crusaders’ coach, he will be so excited. He’s a traditionalist. He loves the concept of the Lions. He loves the concept of rugby touring and he’s going to really G them up. In my mind, I think it will be a more difficult game than what the Blues were but it’s a different starting line-up. For me, the environment that the Lions need to be in; they’ve got to test the players. They’ve got to do this on a Saturday against a tough time and there’s no better time to do that. The team that they’ve put onto the field is now different from the weekend and when you take on the Crusaders, you’ve got to understand that they’ve got seven starting All Blacks in their starting team.

2017 British & Irish Lions coach Warren Gatland

Will they be starting on Saturday?

All seven of them will be playing. Israel Dagg is back from injury and he’s starting. The Whitelocks – these are guys who are going to be taking on this touring team more than once.

Many are in the forwards so this could be a real test for the Lions up-front.

If you look at the team that the Lions have picked – George Cruz, who I think is definitely going to be calling the lineouts… They’ve got Peter O’Mahony, Alan Wynne-Jones, Tadhg Furlong. In that forward pack, they’ve got Mako Vunipola and Jamie George. That’s going to be close to a pack where we’ve said it at the very beginning Mako Vunipola is right up there. The ball carriers: who’s going to be starting? We said we weren’t sure but Rory Best was very good on the weekend. They scrummed very well. The Lions’ Joe Marler was very good so Gatland will have taken that as a positive but now he’s got another whole type five to try and start again – to test against this Crusaders team.

But the captain not in the team…is that not relevant?

No. You’ve got to understand that Sam Warburton has just come back from an injury. He played very well in that first game. He’s a contributor around the park. He can’t play week in and week out. He’s not going to be able to survive all the way through to the tests. If they’re happy with the physical nature of his game, they’ll rest him where they can. It’s also to test Alan Wynne-Jones. He’s the captain. He’s been the captain of the Lions before, replacing Warburton when he got injured last time so there are quite a lot of things happening that we’ve seen in the past, that are positive for what the Lions are trying to do on this tour.

What’s Gatlin going to be hoping for, from Saturday’s game?

Look, I think he’s going to be hoping for a win but I think he’s going to be wishing for a win. This Crusader side is very organised. He’s going to want his team to be defensively matching them (at least), understanding the running lines and understanding the deceptive play that they’ve got in covering the field. They’ve got big forwards who do lovely little death passes behind the backs – release the backs. The All Blacks play exactly the same. In fact, the All Blacks’ pattern is the Crusaders’ pattern and the dominance of the Crusaders in New Zealand rugby has led to how the All Blacks play. It’s a fact. We’ve seen it over the last 15 years. They’ve also got a lot of players who played 50/60/70 tests for the All Blacks. If he can match them and sew a little bit of doubt that the Crusaders don’t just crush the Lions team, then he’ll be very pleased.

It’s no secret that the Lions will lend 10/15/20% of what they do on a match day to what they can bring as a group. These players in New Zealand have played with each other. They’re not going to lift themselves another 30% for a test match, where the Lions certainly will.

Do we look at this as the unofficial 4th test?

Yes, I would say it’s fun because there are five. I think the New Zealand Maori is a test in itself as well and that will be a real test of what that means to New Zealand – what that means as visiting Lions – and I think that’s very interesting. I would say that in terms of the team with the most pedigree in New Zealand at the moment… I mean, we saw the Crusaders beat the Highlanders last weekend. They were bruised and battered afterwards. There was a good old New Zealand Derby and they’ll be sore, but they’ll be really up for this game. They’ve had the break that they needed. It’s definitely (probably) the closest to a test match so let’s call it the 4th test for now because if the Lions can turn the Crusaders over, they’ll be very confident.

You did mention that there were some All Blacks in the starting line-up. The All Black squad has been announced. Any surprises?

I think there are one or two surprise omissions. Malakai Fekitoa has been a really, high-performing centre for the All Blacks. He stepped aside for Sonny Bill Williams so it’s not surprising that the inclusion of Williams is there but I wasn’t sure that it was going to happen like that. What they’ve done in terms of the backs, is they’ve also brought in Lima Sopoaga and Jordie Barrett’s there. The guy that is uncapped and played from Manawatu is Ngani Laumape. He’s had a great Super Rugby. He’s a youngster but he’s very competitive in that space. He can play 10—hand/12. He’s also got enough pace to play outside backs. I really like the way the All Blacks bring in the younger players into a team. If you look at the Barrett brothers, which by the way, is the first time three brothers have ever been announced in the same All Black squad – so an extraordinary achievement for the family.

You’d think they’ve be getting up to watch the games there – the family. Beauden Barrett told us once that his dad would miss most of the test matches because it was lambing season. I think it’s all in context but three brothers playing for the All Blacks is amazing and Beauden Barrett’s position at 10 right now, I would say is probably unquestionable. If there’s anyone putting pressure, it’s the likes of Laumape. These are guys who can play inside backs as well as with extra pace. There are some people who are looking at this squad and saying, “It’s probably one of the strongest ever chosen by an All Black coach” and that rings true for me, when you look at it.

So, what do you do now? You’ve been in this position before on tour. You’ve just started. You’ve now lost the game. You haven’t quite gelled yet. Your opposition are being hyped up as the strongest (possibly ever) in their long and illustrious history. How do you motivate the Lions team?

Look, I don’t think motivation’s hard. I think getting the right motivation is what you’ve got to do here. I don’t think it’s about trying to go out and just win this game at all costs. It’s about trying to improve from what you did the last two weekends. It’s trying to improve internal communications and trying to improve strategy. I really felt that without a Sonny Bill Williams offload, the Lions would have won that game. I really feel that they turned it around and clawed their way back and I have no doubt that they’ll build on that. They’ll say, “Hang on, guys. We’ve got ourselves in a position to win this when we weren’t winning it. We were eight points behind and we clawed our way back.” So they’ll use that as part of what they put in the mix for the motivation now. Then they’ll build and they’ll say, “Okay, we’re taking on Cody Taylor, Owen Franks, Luke Romano, Sam Whitelock, and Matt Todd.”

File Photo: A rugby jersey featuring both the British and Irish Lions and New Zealand All Blacks teams hangs on display at a shop in Auckland Monday in May 2005. Photographer: Brendon O’Hagan/Bloomberg News

If you look at the backs, they’ve got David Havili and Israel Dagg. They’re taking on the guys who’ve all played for the All Blacks and we’ve watched on television now. If we can sock it to them in this match, we’re another five steps ahead. Whether we get a big win, a tight win, or a close loss; our individual battles are what’s going to matter and I think that’s definitely what the coaches are saying. Remember, this team (x 3) is what’s on tour. If one guy plays an outstanding game, you add that to the two outstanding games played by the second rows on Wednesday to the one outstanding game played by the guys last weekend and now you’ve got five guys who’ve only had a good game on tour when you’re leading into your first test. I think there are lots of positives that you can draw out of it.

So, what do we look for on Saturday?

Again, I think we look for the styles of play. The Lions have to adapt. I watched the whole second half of expansive rugby played by the Lions. They weren’t able to get over the advantage line until they took it very close because the Blues didn’t commit to the rucks. It’s different rugby. It’s Super Rugby. They didn’t need to so the Lions would take five players to protect the ball and the Blues would only come at one player, which means you cover all the field. They have to commit those players and we’re definitely going to see a strategy turnaround. You will see them carry it and try to commit more of the Crusaders. The Crusaders are notoriously good at covering the field. They’re a very good defensive team and because of that, they’ve got good players who can steal the ball on the ground. Matt Todd etc. These guys are up in the Top 10 loose forwards in the country. When the Lions take them on, I want to see them adapt to the strategy. I want to see the now say, “Okay. They’re covering the field. Let’s truck it up the middle. Let’s keep them busy. Let’s keep them moving with us.” Lots more mauls, slow play, and try and squeeze the Crusaders and I want to see what happens because of that.

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