Alec Hogg: South Africa didn’t shine at #WEF16, but sanity might prevail

Shortly after his return from the 46th annual World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, award winning journalist Alec Hogg shared some thought-provoking take-outs during a breakfast for BrightRock’s Laureate advisers. It was Alec’s 13th event and one of the most eventful, despite not being the most positive from a South African point of view. Watch the video of Alec’s presentation or read the transcription below.

Well …it’s really a privilege to be talking to you today. To be going through the feedback from this year’s World Economic Forum. In fact they called me … they … I was accused of being … of spreading lies and mischief. And I see mischief is …it’s the old … my … my old homeboy from Newcastle, Mac Maharaj, used to love talking about mischievous journalists. Well, something had happened at the World Economic Forum this year lead to the Presidency … calling me mischievous; so it is a badge of honour. It’s the second in the last three months in fact that they had a go at me. The previous one was when Cyril Ramaphosa was talking about creating five million jobs. And I mentioned it in editorial that if he were to create five million jobs by 2020 that meant … every month from here until 2020 as many jobs would have to be created as are currently employed at First National, ABSA, Nedbank and Standard Bank – every month. To which he said that it wasn’t jobs he was talking about; it was job opportunities. Which I then discovered was if you give a guy a pick and shovel for a day that’s a job opportunity. Politics… Anyway, let’s move on to the World Economic Forum. It’s the 46th time that I’ve been to Davos. Sorry, the 46th time the WEF has had their presentations in Davos; the 13th time that I’ve been there and most of my visits have been very pleasant. South Africa has punched way above its weight. In 1993 … was the first time I went there. We were the belle of the ball just before the election in ’94 and then again in 2010 just before the FIFA World Cup; South Africa was really doing extremely well. At that point in time Trevor Manuel in 2010 was leading the delegation. In 1993 it was a very strong delegation just ahead of the elections in ’94.

This time around it was very different. The South African Delegation was invisible and I’ll give you some of the reasons for that in just a moment. Just a little bit of background: The World Economic Forum brings together 2500 leaders from around the world from business, government and academia. And in essence what happens during these five days is they set the economic agenda for the world for the next 12 months. It started in 1971 at a little place called Davos. It’s a picture postcard town in Switzerland. The decision to have the very first event in ‘71 in Davos was transformative for the town. When you go there today you will see many five star hotels in what was really a little village. In fact it is quite reflective of Europe itself. And the religious issues that they had in Europe that we in South Africa being a new world country in many ways don’t really relate to. But in Davos you’ve got 12 000 people roughly live there. There are two towns in one town. One’s called Davos Platz that’s where the Protestants live, you know the wild livers, they have the casinos in Platz, they have their own schools, and they have their own churches. And then Dorf is where the Catholics live and they have their own churches and schools. And indeed both have their own railway stations even in a little town of 12 000. So it’s quite an interesting place. And every year that I’ve been there and every time that I’ve had the opportunity of visiting and spending five days I’ve realised that it is a place to open minds.

And this is a lovely story. In 1992 on the stage you see Nelson Mandela and FW De Klerk and on the screen behind them is Mangosuthu Buthelezi. Now in 1992 Mandela had recently been released from prison. He went to Davos with an agenda to nationalise everything. At the time I was working on SABC television. I can remember speaking with a lot of the ANC leaders. You know it was just Thabo then it wasn’t Mr Mbeki. It was just Tito then it wasn’t Mr Governor. It certainly was Trevor and Jay. These guys had never been to the SABC before so they quite enjoyed the green room where we had pretty good whiskey and they’d never drunk SABC whiskey and they made sure that they had their fill because they had been banned for all these years. But they were very much on a nationalise everything agenda. A bit like Julius Malema today. He was going to nationalise all the banks. He’s going to nationalise all the mines. That’s the starting point for him. It was very similar there. So Mandela went to Davos in 1992. The first time that he, De Klerk and Buthelezi shared the same stage. And when he returned from Davos he came with a completely different economic agenda. Nationalisation was off the table. It was all about a mixed economy. It was about the country pretty much that we see today. What happened, well, lots of people in Switzerland say that the western world got hold of him and that they convinced him that everything he had believed in was wrong. In fact it wasn’t so. There was a man named Võ Văn Kiệt. A very fascinating human being if you’d like to go and look him up. He was a general in the Viet Cong army and he had become, recently, the Prime Minister of Vietnam. He was one of Nelson Mandela’s heroes because if you’re sitting in Robben Island and the West has put you there and the West is supporting those that you are fighting with [then] clearly you would like to support those who are giving the West a hiding – which the Vietnamese were doing, or had done, against the United States.

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So when Mr Võ Văn Kiệt got hold of Mr Nelson Mandela in Davos he said to him that this idea you have of following the Soviet route is flawed. We’ve tried it in Vietnam and we have been in desperate trouble. But I am now introducing a reform agenda in Vietnam. And this reform agenda is making … the Communist Party which I lead still runs the country … but the economy is completely free enterprise. And it’s a very similar model to the one that the Chinese used and one that Mandela came back to South Africa with. So, if you think it’s expensive to send our politicians to Davos just imagine how expensive it would have been had Mr Võ Văn Kiệt not had that conversation with Nelson Mandela in 1992.

Opening minds is a very big part of the whole forum because these 2500 people who are there are literally the power mongers of the world. You have Nobel Prize winners there; you have at least half of the leaders of the G20 [there]. And when you are in a room as an A-type personality, as judging by the awards that were given out a bit earlier a few of you are, A-type personalities like to achieve and they also like to tell other people their opinions and you can imagine if you’ve got these from all over the world in one place at the same time it is quite a lot of talking. But increasingly when you have esteemed people from other countries you also tend to listen and remember God did give us two ears and one mouth for a reason.

The networking I would say is another big part of the World Economic Forum. That’s a picture I took this year of Pravin Gordhan together with Martin Wolf who is one of the leading columnists in the world. He writes a column on economics for The Financial Times of London. He is also a big star in Davos. He facilitates many of the very big sessions there and a thought leader in his own right.

This was an event that Pravin gave … one of the few … In fact I think it was the only near public event that South Africa’s delegation in Davos gave this year. It was to a group of senior journalists from around the world and in this Pravin Gordhan gave us an outline of how he sees the economy in 2016. To give you an understanding of how well this was received or how much interest was in this, given the state of South Africa as we know what happened with our weekend special finance minister on the 9th of December, there were 65 000 views of the video on our website that we embedded. Quite incredible. The World Economic Forum said they’d never seen anything like this for an economic briefing. Clearly Pravin Gordhan did speak from the heart and he made some very pointed statements. But he was fighting a rear-guard action because the country’s reputation took three very big hits before the forum started this year. All of them from organisations who tend to use this showpiece as an opportunity to amplify the announcements that they are saying.

The first of these was this newspaper article which appeared in the second biggest newspaper in Switzerland. It was distributed for free to delegates of the World Economic Forum and it reads … as you can see it’s a full page on Jacob Zuma and a very unflattering photograph which … under the headline ‘A toxic president’.

Next came the International Monetary Fund’s release of its latest economic forecasts. In October it had put a forecast for South Africa of 1.3% economic growth. Of course it didn’t just talk about South Africa; it talked about the whole world. In the whole world it expects to grow 3.4%. South Africa 1.3% in October. In January it adjusted that growth rate to 0.7%. So it halved our economic growth rate because of what happened in December. If you think the blunder, the Nene-gate as we call it, was expensive, well, the International Monetary Fund confirms that.

The third big hit that the country took was from the Edelman’s Trust barometer. This is a survey that is done around the world. Edelman is a big investor relations and public relations company based in New York. A global business. They interview 33 000 people from various countries and they like to work out in those interviews the trust of the public in government, business and the media. [laughing]. I’m not going to tell you about the media because that’s been on a slide for long, long time. Business is actually surprisingly stable but government or trust in government is declining all over the world. Richard Edelman, who made the presentation, said to us that in certain developing countries it has now fallen to a catastrophic level. His words, not mine. He disclosed that in Brazil … he highlighted two of these countries … in Brazil the trust was 21% i.e. the public of Brazil 21% of them have trust in the government and they’re trying to impeach their president at the moment. In South Africa the figure was 16%. So considering those results … and the interviews of those were based before Nene-gate in December … it wasn’t really a place where you’d expect Team South Africa to be proudly flying the flag.

The impact of these three issues on the South African cause was graphically illustrated on the second day of the World Economic Forum when there’s traditionally a high profile Africa investment session. Now in Davos, at any one time, you have a selection of five to ten different places you can go to. And this session on Africa, over the years, has become increasingly popular. In fact if you don’t arrive there 15 to 20 minutes before you can’t get in or you haven’t been able to get in in past years. There’s been … I remember one year arriving a little bit too late and there was such a long queue that I just never … I never got in to see it. South Africa has always been the centrepiece of this particular session which is televised live and between South Africa and Nigeria you would find that most of the attention is being focused. This year, however, President Zuma pulled out. He says ‘a few days before’; my information was ‘at the last minute’. He offered Pravin Gordhan to come in his place. Pravin Gordhan was unacceptable to the President of Ethiopia who didn’t want to be downgraded or have the session downgraded. And as a consequence there was no South African representation there and the Paul Kagame from Rwanda was a last minute replacement for Zuma and it looked it. The audience unlike in previous years which was absolutely chock-and-block … you could see that I turned around in my seat and took a photograph … as you can see rather disengaged and quite a few empty seats. So, the opportunity that South Africa had given the first three blows was perhaps missed. On the other hand there was a wonderful cartoon by Zapiro which showed one with the president being present and the one with the President not being present and said well which of these two scenarios is better for the country – suggesting the second one was. We did have a statement from the presidency to say that he had met with the Swedish Prime Minister that morning, Stefan Löfven, one of the last socialists who’s still in office.

The consequence of that was after I had reported it I was accused of mischief and spreading lies; there was no real explanation of what was going on. Unlike every previous time that I’ve been in Davos this year Zuma restricted his engagements to tightly controlled invitation-only audiences where the agenda was one-way delivery. The Presidency issued a statement after Davos claiming it had been a great success. Having been there I would suggest that wasn’t completely true. And also the #ZumaMustFall even made it to Davos; there were a few people demonstrating outside the area Brand South Africa had taken over. Quite extraordinary. But, it wasn’t all bad for South Africa. There were some South Africans who really shone and continued to shine on the global stage and indeed at the World Economic Forum.

As I mentioned earlier Davos is used to amplify announcements like the International Monetary Fund updating its economic forecast and various others. Amongst these is a lady you might recognize she was the deputy president of South Africa, Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka, who left the country after her husband who you might remember was with the NPA and said that we have a prima facie case against Jacob Zuma who at the time the Deputy President. And he was then accused of being an apartheid spy. He, Bulelani Ngcuka is his name, and Phumzile after the transition from the Mbeki administration left the country. She went and did a doctorate in Mobile Technology; mobile meaning cell phones. And she’s now one of the top five at the United Nations. In fact she’s here later this week and I hope to see her either on Friday or Monday on her visit to South Africa. She runs the women’s stream at the UN – hugely successfully – and with her knowledge and understanding of mobile technology, she’s put together a program called ‘He for She’, which is bringing males who support gender equality. And really Phumzile is one of our superstars out there in the rest of the world and doing extremely well at it. What she announced in Davos this year was gender equality … her strategy … she’s brought in ten companies. Ten global companies that she’s now got on board and they are going to assist in forwarding … she’s leveraging basically their bases and those companies include Unilever, McKinsey, Barclays, Vodafone, PWC, so these are heavyweight business and their CEOs were all there to support her in this and they promised that by 2020 they will have gender equality in executive ranks and in the boardroom. Extraordinary, from a South African who’s driving that.

Other statements that were amplified and are continuing to reverberate long after Davos include income inequality. You might have seen what Thomas Piketty, the French economist, has been proposing. Well, he and many others have been picking up on an organisation called Oxfam whose Kenyan head for International Affairs, Winnie Byanyima, is again one of the star attractions in Davos. This year she disclosed, quite a spectacular statistic, that half the people on earth, in other words 3.5 billion people, their wealth is equivalent to the wealth that is owned now by 62 people. So the richest 62 people have got as much wealth as the bottom 3.5 billion. That’s in itself is quite extraordinary but it’s come from 388, five years ago. So the rich are getting richer. What they are doing about it now is interesting. Some of the targets are tax havens and all the politicians … you might have seen recently a settlement between Google and the British Government for a £130 million in taxes that was not on the table. These multi nationals are being forced to pay more taxes but as far as you guys are concerned particularly for your clients if they have funds in tax havens I would strongly recommend that you tell them not to try and hide it. These are … increasingly the tax havens are being attacked not just by one or two governments but by all governments and it’s on the politically popular platform of income inequality.

Other issues that are under threat at the moment on income inequality is intellectual property. The laws on intellectual property at the moment trump human rights laws and there’s a groundswell of opinion to say that that can’t be right.

The other big trend or the other big thing that the World Economic Forum does is identify trends early. This is a picture that I took two years ago and the guy on the right is one who is important. His name is Erik Brynjolfsson. He is a professor at MIT and he wrote a book, called ‘The Second Machine Age’, together with another professor at MIT – which is by the way the most difficult university in the world to get into – his name is Andrew McAfee. And the two of these guys essentially went and had a look at things that robots weren’t supposed to be able to do but were doing. Because as we know for well over a decade now artificial intelligence and robotics has been taking over many of the jobs that human beings did in the past but there are certain jobs that human beings just would always be doing; like driving a car. Wrong. They investigated Google’s driverless cars initiative and discovered that there were now literally hundreds and thousands of kilometres that Google driverless cars had been driving around on Californian roads. Completely safe, well, not completely safe; they had had seven accidents in this time in all these years. Six of them they were rear-ended and one of them was a Google employee who decided to take over the driving of the car himself. [Laughing]. The developments that they identified in 2014 have accelerated and continue to accelerate. It’s all about artificial intelligence, 3D-printing, technology getting smarter and smarter. And if you understand the way that mankind has evolved you would then easily be able to identify with what Klaus Schwab, who is the man who created the World Economic Forum, called this year’s event, which was ‘The Fourth Industrial Revolution’.

The first industrial revolution was something we well know. The centre of the world then was Manchester. Some people who follow football still think it’s the centre of the world. Not so much after last weekend. But Manchester was where the first industrial revolution started; where people left the fields and started going into the cities. You might recall, around this time, there was a fellow by the name of Ned Ludd. And Ned and his followers didn’t like the fact that machines were taking over their jobs so they got the old-fashioned version of a ‘bobbejaanspanner’ and they went and smashed up some machines. There were a few shootings. Those days the police were not quite as restrained as they are today and Ned Ludd and his followers are forever remembered as luddites. So, when you are called a Luddite by somebody who thinks they are intelligent they are actually insulting you if you believe modernity is a good thing; if you believe that technology should go forward. However, if they call you a Luddite and you think all this world development is not a good thing then you should actually be pushing out your chest.

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The second industrial revolution came in the early 1900s with the discovery of electricity. So you had steam for the first one and then you had electricity for the second one. The interesting thing about this is that half of the world, half of the world, is still in a second industrial revolution so they haven’t even had electricity in many countries. Those 3.5 billion people who have the same amount of money as the top 62 don’t have electricity which kind of tells you something. Interesting development.

The third industrial revolution began more recently. That was the computing power. We all know what life was like, or most of us in this room know, before computers. Before excel spreadsheets, before or rather in the days of telexes when I started. Does anyone remember what a telex is? Fax machines? And as the development of the third industrial revolution went through it was of course accelerated by Tim Berners-Lee who discovered this wonderful thing called the internet. On this one as well half of the world’s population is still not there. In South Africa, wherever you want to look at us, we’re in the top half because we do have the internet and we do have access to computing power.

But now we’re into the fourth industrial revolution and this is where it’s starting; with the ubiquitous internet. What does that mean? It’s a big word but it just means that in my hand, in all of our hands with a smartphone … and I don’t even have an iPhone 6 yet … but my smartphone is as powerful as all of NASA’s computers with which they put a man on the moon in 1963. And as a consequence of that you probably have all of their computer power, all of the computing power IBM had at the time and plus all of the Russians as well and it’s just in your cell phone through a thing called Moore’s Law. If you haven’t heard of Moore’s Law, it’s a professor who in 1965 wrote an article for Fortune Magazine where he said that his analyses of what’s happened in the past few years suggests that computing power will double every year at the same price. Now the exponentiality of that has a massive impact on development, on human development, and we’re seeing Moore’s law now being enacted right across many parts of the world we’re living in. An expert in the fourth industrial revolution is Ian Golding. He is a South African. He is a professor at Oxford University. You see there were some of our guys really flying the flag very high there. And he’s got a book called ‘The Second Renaissance’ which comes out in May. The renaissance you might remember was the period in history from 1450 that transformed the world. Leonardo da Vinci, Galileo, Copernicus, even Martin Luther – the cleric who rebelled against the church at the time – they all came from the renaissance. He believes that the second renaissance, or the fourth industrial revolution, is all about a battle of ideas as exactly it did happen during the first renaissance. How did that happen? There was a guy called Johan Guttenberg, who lived in Germany, who in 1450 invented the Guttenberg press. Up to that point you could have taken all the books in the world, all the knowledge in the world, and put into one big wagon. After the Guttenberg press was invented, which is the invention on moveable type, you started producing books and lots of knowledge. So for the next 250 years you had this explosion of knowledge but it was still only in a tiny little corner of Europe where it began. His thesis is that the knowledge is now exploding through that very same smartphone that we have. Everybody on earth has access to the same information simultaneously. If you want to become the world’s best lawyer the only thing that’s stopping you is your own initiative. You can tap into Yale University, you can tap into Harvard, and you can go into even MIT. Many universities around the world will give you free access to as much learning as you can take. That is the reality and he says that the next Michelangelo could be sitting in a shack in Orange Farm. The next Copernicus could be beavering away on his smartphone in Nairobi. And this to his view, to Ian Golding’s view, is a massive advantage to people previously excluded.

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Just by way of a stat that really jumps home to me, and should to you, economies generally should be the size of the globe that their populations are. And we’re seeing this happening in Asia. Asia’s got 60% of the world’s population. Asia’s share of global GDP is slowly edging up towards it. Europe has got about 12% of the world’s population; its share of GDP is slowly edging down towards 12%. Africa has 13% of the world’s population; it has 3% of the world’s GDP or wealth. Now the only similar example that we have in history was in the United States of America between 1870 and 1915 – the golden era of the Unites States economy where it grew at a growth rate of 4.4%. Projections for Africa, despite the oil price falling and the exposure that this continent has to Africa, are that it will grow 5% or more for the next 30 to 40 years much like we’ve seen from China. During that period of time the United States created six of the ten richest people in history. So you have two very interesting things happening here: You have a rebalancing of the world’s wealth through the initiative of individuals because they have access to information. And the second thing you have is a continent that is really so far behind, i.e. Africa, but has just as many smart people as anywhere else in the world that is now getting the opportunity to leapfrog. Africa itself has a lot of issues. I see there are worries that a quarter of the Zimbabwean population will starve this year because of the drought. The president of Rwanda wants a third term despite in the constitution only having two terms and so on.

But there’s also lots of very good news if you’re start looking at places like Ghana. Even today one of the worst of the examples on this continent is Chad but the president of Chad has announced although he took power in a coupe 25 years ago and he’s announced that after this election that he’s probably going to win – because he’ll probably rig the votes again – the next guy is going to have his time limited to two terms maximum. So there is progress wherever you might look.

The problem about the second renaissance or the fourth industrial revolution is two-fold: Status Quo kicks back against it; people don’t like this kind of thing. If you’re a beneficiary of the Status Quo like the church was during the renaissance, like kings and queens were during that time you didn’t want things to change. That’s part of the human condition. And we are expecting to see lots of kickback. We’re already seeing that in the United States with the kind of people that they want to vote into power there. People are very unhappy, there’s more extremism. We’re seeing the extremism growing in certain parts of the world. There’s a lot of that attention in Davos about the Middle-East; about immigration into Europe.

But the second big thing about it, as much I’ve given you the bright side that everyone has access to information, it also is a very dark side in that anything that is done by rote or rules-based; done by rote, we think that is easy to understand people who are manufacturing bring a robot in to change it. Rules-based, something we don’t really think about, white collar. People who are doing accounting, tax advising, that machines – artificial intelligence – can do better. Those jobs are at threat. What isn’t at threat are those who deal in human relationships which I guess, for once in your life, you can actually say: ‘Okay I got a tough job but it’s actually one that isn’t going to go away.’ Whereas there are many, many other jobs … in the United States there are no tax advisors left. Literally no tax advisors because you just buy a program because it is rules-based and the program would tell you how much tax you should pay. The US has calculated that 47% of its existing jobs will disappear in the next 20 years. And the UK has worked out that one third of its jobs will disappear. And just to give you a little touch of this; in future if you are going to buy a pair of shoes you won’t be going into a shop that sells shoes imported from China in some large factory you will in fact go around the corner to a 3D-printer which will print out your pair of shoes exactly to fit your feet. So the changes are dramatic and they’re happening and the emphases, the new emphasis, now is on re-skilling and entrepreneurship. Entrepreneurship as you know has been very difficult for many years. As an entrepreneur myself I sometimes get terribly frustrated by the obstacles and I know you would share that concern with me but more and more this is becoming the way into the future.

Just to go into the kind of the last little bits of the World Economic Forum; what does 2016 hold? This is the closing economic panel. The one I love going to because after five days of engagement and interaction, people would like to know where the economy is going to. Christine Lagarde, she’s the lady with grey hair in the middle there, the very impressive managing director of the International Monetary Fund; is one of the brightest stars in Davos. Her thesis is that the big threat that many worry about – the hard landing of China – remember China is the place that’s actually pulled the rest of the economy for the last 10 years and that its economy is going to hit troubled times. She doesn’t believe that that’s likely. And George Soros, was in Davos this year as well, he’s now 85 and one of the great thinkers of the world, he was agreed with her that China has the resources to pull itself out and not to have a hard landing. Not so easy in Europe. The bright spot for the world though is Britain and India and Argentina. And perhaps in our question time we can talk about that a little more.

Where the issue does come in for China though is that they are trying to do three things at once. Three transformations at once. And amongst those, the three ones are… overlaid by President Xi… you know when he went to India, his name is X I, they called Mr Eleven. President Xi has a war on corruption. In fact if you are a billionaire in China and you’ve been doing it through dodgy business you kind of disappear. Simply disappear. That happens, when you read the Financial Times of London as I do, you’ll see quite often that Chinese business people who have a global presence just don’t … you just don’t hear from them anymore. So the war on corruption is very real in China and very aggressive. They do however have to move their economy from manufacturing to services. They’re moving it from export driven to internal and they’re trying to move it from investment to consumption. Those are huge challenges and issues that they are going to be dealing with into the future.

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The other thing is something Lagarde calls asynchronistic monetary policy; I had to look up the word. What it means is when you synchronise things that it all works together. Asynchronistic means in different speeds. In America they are pulling the money out of the system; and in Europe and Japan they’re still putting money into the system. So that could help generally for the world and that’s probably why the International Monetary Fund says that they still looking at 3.5%/3.4% growth this year.

Britain, those of you who have connections and I think many people in this country do with Britain. The big story there is Grexit. Last year we had Grexit. Greece’s exit from the European Union which was averted at the 11th hour. Now the Brits are going to be voting later this year on a potential exit there. The British who are the fastest growing economy in Europe and who are on track to overtake Germany in the next 25 years as the biggest economy in Europe; they don’t want to be aligned with economic policies in Europe. They say that those economic policies are doomed to fail and as a consequence they want to be part of Europe but be told not what to do. That’s a very tricky place to be. If you follow the media in the UK you’ll see the likelihood at the moment anyway is that the British will vote to go out of the European Union which has all kinds of implications of not having the free trade. But it is an issue and a development that needs to be looked at from a global perspective.

Just to sum it all up from a South African side; we didn’t shine in Davos but then again if you had to look at the performance of our share price, the Rand, in the month or so running up to Davos it was very hard to see how we were going to shine.

The good news about that is, and I would like to end off here by giving you a couple of the things that Pravin Gordhan said in his economic briefing. The good news is that it does appear as though finally sense is starting to prevail within the economic management of this country. We’ll know for sure tomorrow? Tonight? At the State of the Nation. I would urge you to try and stay awake through it and to absorb the reality of what’s being said in there. If not you can always go into BizNews tomorrow and pick up the highlights. And then the budget speech next Wednesday where Pravin Gordhan has promised us that he’s going to give us some pleasant surprises. That’s not pleasant surprises in that the taxes are going to go down; Pleasant surprises in that things will be done to avert, hopefully, a junk status for South Africa’s debt. To go into Junk status would be a very serious problem for this country.

But I will end with this: Pravin said: “We’ve got to take a harder look at the challenges and how we’re going to deal with them. Tough questions have been asked within government about what we need to do differently. We need tough reforms on education and the skills area. We need to create co-investment with the private sector. There are a significant number of us within the ANC who want to restore our integrity.”

Thank you.

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