In the question and answer session after his keynote address at BNC#6 in Hermanus, Herman Mashaba, president of ActionSA, defied pollster predictions, highlighting his party’s growth and anti-corruption stance. He championed tough measures against crime and emphasised merit-based governance. Mashaba’s entrepreneurial background informs his pragmatic approach to politics, focusing on fiscal responsibility and service delivery. He dismissed concerns over the ANC’s grip on power, prioritising voter choice. His message promoted a united, prosperous South Africa built on empowerment and opportunity.
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Summary of the Question and Answer session with ActionSA leader Herman Mashaba at BNC#6 in Hermanus
Herman Mashaba, the founder of ActionSA, engaged in a dynamic Q&A session, showcasing his fervour for transformative politics and pragmatic solutions. Refuting pollster predictions, he emphasised his party’s growth and impact, citing successes in Johannesburg politics. His vision is clear: a South Africa rid of crime and corruption, driven by individual responsibility and economic freedom.
Mashaba’s journey from entrepreneur to politician underscores his belief in self-reliance and meritocracy, challenging the status quo with innovative strategies. He advocates for tough measures against crime, promising a justice system that prioritises victims over perpetrators. His approach to governance is hands-on, emphasizing efficiency and accountability.
Addressing concerns about ANC’s potential resistance to losing power, Mashaba asserted that voter choice will prevail, stressing the importance of merit-based governance over political allegiance. His track record as Johannesburg’s mayor reflects his commitment to fiscal responsibility and service delivery.
Mashaba’s discourse resonates with principles of free-market economics and personal liberty, echoing his tenure as Free Market Foundation chairman. He remains steadfast in his quest for a united, prosperous South Africa, driven by practical, inclusive policies. Ultimately, his message is one of hope and determination, urging South Africans to embrace change and embrace a future built on empowerment and opportunity.
Extended transcript of the Q&A discussion session with Herman Mashaba at BNC#6 in Hermanus __STEADY_PAYWALL___
Alec Hogg [00:00:08] Herman. Thank you. That was, classic Mashaba. So what do we expect and what do we expect of you as the second biggest political party. You’re confident, you’re looking at it. The pollsters are saying no, the pollsters are saying 2%. The pollsters are saying the Cope effect. Exciting to begin with and then tapered off. What do you say to the pollsters?
Herman Mashaba [00:00:34] Well, the you know, the reason why one of the commitment I have in South Africa is to fight drugs because, it looks like, you know, these drug cartels that bring in very dangerous drugs in this country because, you know, what do we are made to read every Sunday in the papers? I don’t think people write those being sober. Because, Alec, please, just go into your system. Look at what the pollsters and the professors and, political analysts, said to us even a day before the election, in 2021.
Alec Hogg [00:01:22] We’ve had this conversation. And and I think what a lot of people are missing is the point you made to me that you’ve contested in the rural areas, in by-elections where you’ve got 10% of the vote or more, double figures, but it’s like not getting through a little bit like what [00:01:38]Mr. Hlabisa [0.4s] was saying earlier about, what’s going on in KZN with your NPC partner, the IFP, that they are doing so much better, that facts are on the table, the runs are on the board and yet it’s not being pulled into the public consciousness. What’s going on? I asked you this. What’s your thought?
Herman Mashaba [00:01:59] Well, look, Alec, what is really unfortunate is that, there’s pollsters and, there’s, political analysts. We listen on television every day. They tell you ANC is a big, elephant that cannot be taken down. Let me give you the facts and not the what, the pollsters are saying. In the city of Johannesburg, when, contested as as a pro, as a mayorial candidate. At the time, I had no clue what the mayor does. I just accepted this responsibility because I feel we’ve got to take the ANC out, and they are vulnerable. We remove them first in the first round, representing the DA at the time. Now, look at on my own with a party and year old. It launches during Covid. I, you see, saw something that the pollsters and the professional people didn’t see. They made us contest as a logo. I had to train up voters to vote for a logo.
550,000 people voted for us at the time in 2016. When I was the mayor of the city of Johannesburg. ANC had 44% of over the city of Johannesburg. You know where they are right now. Officially, 33%. People don’t know those. The city of Johannesburg. This animal there that say it can’t be taken down. That 33%. They had 124 councillors right now as I’m speaking to you. ANC has got 90 councillors in the city of Johannesburg. DA at the time when I was representing it, we were 104 of us, that now 71. ActionSA from nowhere. 44 councillors. We are the third biggest political party in the city of Johannesburg, followed by a political party that fills a stadium every weekend. At 29 councillors, EFF 29 councillors. ActionSA at 44. People don’t know this because we don’t fill stadiums. We go out there and really sell our message to the people. We don’t really call people into them.
We don’t have the money in the first place, to, to fill up stadium. In fact, I’m telling you, call people in the stadium, entertain them. They are not going to listen to you. They need to have fun. So we don’t have money. We don’t have the money to for that. What we do is, we ensure that, people resonate to our message of a non-racial South Africa, the committed to deal with crime, criminals. South Africans know very well that Herman Mashaba and criminals will never coexist. I’m very unhappy with the manner in which today we treat criminals in this country. We are too soft on criminals. I can tell you under ActionSA, life is going to mean life. If a court of lawyers found you guilty, it’s going to be life. If you are serving 25 years, I can tell you in your cell, we are going to have a clock, a very cheap one, every day showing you how many days, if 25 years, you are going to serve 25 years. And what’s more important, no prisoners, hardened criminals, murderers. A country where we’ve got 86 people being murdered every single day. And you must tell me, I must practice Ubuntu. I’m not prepared to practice Ubuntu with a criminal, a murderer, a rapist, a drug dealer. I can tell you we are not going to pay for them on a day like this. What day is this today? Is it Monday? Tuesday, I don’t know. Well, whatever day it is.
Alec Hogg [00:05:50] It’s Tuesday.
Herman Mashaba [00:05:50] Tuesday? Tuesday. This time again, [00:05:53]between between 8 and 5:00, there won’t be any prisoners in a prison cells. They’ll be in the farms to [8.0s]
Herman Mashaba [00:06:02] [00:06:02]Producing so. [1.2s]
Herman Mashaba [00:06:06] They’ll be working then be working for the accommodation and their meals. The money that this current government is providing prisoners to lay in cells and form gangs, this money going to go into early childhood development centres, is going to go into building hospitals, clinics, infrastructure in the poor communities. We are not going to feed, the criminals. They’re going to work. And I can tell you we’ve got technology to to monitor how they’ll work, if you don’t produce it, what you’re expected to produce in a day, you will work on Saturday and Sunday. It’s up to you. You’ll you can really decide.
Herman Mashaba [00:06:46] At the last line. I’m sure I’m there. Right.
Alec Hogg [00:06:53] Either you’re breathing fire today, Herman, I’m glad to see this, but you’re talking a lot of common sense. You are a successful, a highly successful entrepreneur. Nobody can dispute that. It was another, I don’t know how successful an entrepreneur he was, but certainly, he had a lot of hotels. Donald Trump, who went into politics. Are there parallels?
Herman Mashaba [00:07:18] [00:07:18][incoherent] [0.0s]
Herman Mashaba [00:07:21] I think, unfortunately, I’ve never met Donald Trump in my life. I only got to know about his hotels, and, his success my first trip to the US in 1986, after starting my business in 1985 and, realised, our industry to a large extent was controlled by, by American developments. And, and I decided, to, to apply for a visa to, to go to, to the US on a fact finding mission. And, at the time, Donald Trump was really rebuilding New York. And that’s really what obviously I, admired, and inspired me. Not just him, the American, the capitalist, the way I remember on the Hudson River, you know, on a boat trip, they relayed how many billionaires are there in, in, in New York City, how many millionaires and so forth. And I said to myself, you know, coming from a [incoherent] village, before I turn 30, I’ve got to become a multimillionaire. And I fortunately managed to really turn things around. Learning from what the Americans were doing, their entrepreunerial spirit. And, Donald is one of those. As the politician, how is he doing? I think it’s up to the Americans to decide with that one. Fortunate enough, I’m not a voter in the United States, so I’ll vote here. I will not vote for a criminal enterprise [incoherent] that’s governing us right now in South Africa.
Alec Hogg [00:09:00] You know, when you talk about upliftment from the humble background, it’s a lot like if one reads, the early American early 19th, 20th century American books, where there was a great focus on uplifting yourself. Self-improvement. Work on yourself and Napoleon Hill, Dale Carnegie, Norman Vincent Peale. It was all about looking at inside and not expecting others to provide for you. What were your influences? Because as a future president of South Africa, we need to know how your mind thinks.
Herman Mashaba [00:09:41] Well, I think, I like, you know, the day I was born, 26 of August 1959, I don’t know, for some reason, my grandfather happened to have been home. My father was still alive, unfortunately, he decided to die when I was two years old. But my grandfather’s teachings were performed to me until, his passing in 1978 when I was in, in matric. My grandfather instilled in me a sense of self reliance. Hard work, education. And he was not, my grandfather was a a security guy at, for the municipality. Was my ticket line. I don’t know if, we in the township say a security guard who used to call [incoherent]. That’s all. I don’t really believe my grandfather’s been to school, but he has, had the wisdom. And he has instilled this, in me not to rely on someone else. That is why, I’m really fighting communists.
Because I’ve read so much about communists. And Lenin and Stalin and the, criminal group, took over in 1917. You look at what communists have done all over the world, and this is something that this government wants to do, because the only way communists can survive, and remain in power, is oppress people. Take away their personal liberties. Where you are decided when to go, the bathroom and so forth. I want to live in a society where free enterprise is, is the norm. People mustn’t put money under mattresses. It must be the rule of law. You know, there must be consequences of all for wrongdoing. There must be rewards for those who do good. Because I can tell you right now, people don’t, you know, tend to mischaracterize United States.
If you look at, philanthropists, in the last 100 odd years or so, majority of them. Where do they come from? From the US? People don’t really notice. People who’ve made the money and then put money into foundations and help others. Show me a single communist who has ever done anything for anyone. To show me one, Lenin or Stalin? Stalin didn’t even leave anything for his own children, you know. So what I’m saying is, [00:12:26]I think, you know, I strongly believe in individual freedom. I believe in a country where there’s a rule of law. There’s consequences for wrongdoing. There’s a reward there for those who do good in society. We need to encourage, people to, to really be good human beings. [20.3s] That’s why God is so important. In our lives, we should not really only be afraid of jail, and the police. We have, we need a spiritual, fulfilment. So that I think we must be good human beings.
And and this must be incorporated in our education to one we teaching our kids to be, capitalist. And we must be. We must not stand on the fence, to to to encourage our children to be capitalist. But at the end of the day, they must be capitalists with a heart. [00:13:21]How I managed to really grow my business, during the days of my country’s history when I, as a black man, was not allowed to to do business. Why did I succeed? I strongly believe I succeeded because from day one I made money and every money that my family did not need, I used it in our communities. [23.3s] I do not use traditional, the marketing, giving money to agencies and television and radio and so forth. I did, good things for society, communities, needing whatever, you know, my marketing and actually we, we, we chose the right name that would resonate in ensuring that actually people must actually think our business to be theirs, but it must not just be in the name. It must not be in our doing.
But people must understand, I can only give what I have, not promise other people’s money. So allow me to make money. And if I make more than what I can consume as a family. But then we can then apply back to society. It is for that reason my family allowed me put in, I can imagine you can just have an idea, to start a political party with no funding from no one. My family allowed me, gave me this space and moved it. We all agreed as a family, whatever it’s going to cost us, it’s a contribution to this country, to South Africa. Thank you for giving us the economic freedom that we’ve enjoyed over the last 40 years. But if I was a communist, communist today who got money for nothing given to them by a white monopoly capital. Every day, the one who [incoherent] free stuff. I don’t really operate in that way. I operate on the basis of how many meals can I have? The only meal I had today, it’s a sandwich in the in the plane. I didn’t, my wife wanted to prepare me, breakfast. I said, no, I’m going. I have someone else’s food somewhere for free, yena. Well, let’s save it. And I’m going to have a free dinner tonight. I’m saving my family’s money. Well, I didn’t want my wife not to prepare me because I was full. No, I wanted to a free one. I knew I would get a free meal somewhere else.
Herman Mashaba [00:16:03] You.
Alec Hogg [00:16:04] Well, you said earlier that you don’t you don’t want to go to Parliament to be in the opposition benches. Does that mean you’re not going to Parliament?
Herman Mashaba [00:16:13] No, I’m going to. I’m one number one on our on on our list. We we we are contesting. We are campaigning to be in government, on our own or through the multi-party, charter. So that’s really what we work can to what’s and, and if I look at my life, do I always succeed? Absolutely not, but, fortunately, now 90% of the decisions I’ve taken, have been successful. And, so I’m not here to, to, interested in being, member of parliament, earning a million rands a year. Yeah. And, you know, that’s not what inspires me. I don’t, you know, I can do better economically somewhere than somewhere else. And I’ll not really be, of value to society. So I’m campaigning on the basis of saying to South Africans, help us, to unseat, democratically unseat this government so that you can implement those policies that we are talking about.
Alec Hogg [00:17:20] Herman, last question before we we go to the floor. With Black Like Me, it it really doesn’t have a chance, if you think about it. Given the circumstances that you worked in. And yet you managed to be successful. By being innovative. Have you used any of those strategies in ActionSA, and I’m getting to a place here that if you did, perhaps they wouldn’t have surfaced in the more formal polling, as that we’re seeing now. And if they are, if they are strategies you’ve used. Just what are that?
Herman Mashaba [00:17:56] Well, now use common sense. When I started to conceive the idea of Black Like in 1984, I did not need any research company to tell me black women wanted to be pimped. Could see, oh. I mean, it was. It was so obvious. I do not need anyone to, to tell me that, you play your pimp. Black women will make money. I’ll conceive the idea in a 200 square metre factory, by the SBDC. Then I put that on 200m², as if you look at the entrepreneurs all over the world. That’s why, business schools all over the world have always had interest in my story because, I’m one of the entrepreneurs in the world did to receive very expensive funding. I got funding at 10% a time, plus 10 in 1985, January of 1985, when I got the 30,000 to start the business, I had to pay time plus ten and paid over three years. And then I had to pay, I started paying, interest and then and the capital from the, from February of of the same year. I paid back this, this, this 3000. I paid it back in 7 months. By 1990, I remember always 10 people. On the 2nd of February 1990 when P.W. Botha announce that banning of political parties, and everything like that, I built my own factory right in the township of Mabopane. Over 6000m². Built by my own construction company. By that time, I’d already started a construction company that builds my own, factory. Cost me over 10 million Rands. State of the art, employing over 200 people. But I did not owe anyone a cent.
Alec Hogg [00:19:53] The strategies you used there to grow your business. Have you used those strategies that in ActionSA.
Herman Mashaba [00:19:58] Exactly, exactly. I mean. We’re now accepted to be the mayor of the city. When DA pushed me to be the mayor of Johannesburg. Well, when people says ANC cannot be taken down, I said, no, we are going to take it down. And I took it down the first time around when South Africans said I must start a political party, and all the pollsters and the research says you can’t do it. We’ve proven them completely wrong. Because honestly, you don’t have to be a rocket scientist. They do to get to understand that black people are gatvol with ANC. They don’t want it any longer.
Alec Hogg [00:20:38] One final question. As the former chairman or president of the Free Market Foundation.
Herman Mashaba [00:20:45] Chairman.
Alec Hogg [00:20:45] Chairman, are you seeing what’s going on in Argentina with Javier Milei, the libertarian economist who’s tearing up the rule book because he would be, I guess, pretty aligned with what the Free Market Foundation stands for right now.
Herman Mashaba [00:21:01] I’ll follow a little bit of what he does, what I, what I normally do as a person that, and I, and I, read a lot. I’m an avid reader and I follow these type of developements as I’ve said, I follow politics because follow politics determine what happens in the, in the country. So I’ve got an idea. But one thing that I’ve learned is not to do what someone else has done. I’ve got to do something different. Success to a large extent, as far as I’m concerned, is dependent on doing something different. Whereas, a lot of people all over the world, why they fail is because they wanted to do what Herman Mashaba did, exactly. And that’s where you’re going to fail, because it’s is innate in us as human beings. You you can’t be a me too product, you know, in, in that in a market with a me too product, you want to copy what everybody else does. I think, I’m a strong believer in doing things differently, and I must believe in what I’m doing. Like a I’m a real typical salesman. I’m a trader. And the only way I can sell a product, I must believe in that product. Because if I’m attached to a product and I believe in it, it is easy for me to really sell it.
Alec Hogg [00:22:22] Right? Let’s, go to the floor. We’ve got, a question in the front here. Please, just raise your hand and the team BizNews business will find you. On this side of the wall, you have Frances, over here, you have Stuart, and Asime is on the right hand side. Please just raise your hand and you have it here to answer.
BizNews Community member [00:22:50] Mister Mashaba, thank you for your very uplifting speech. I just wanted one question. I mean, in talking all today, in order to get the job done and and get rid of the ANC, we’ve got to get the uncommitted.
Alec Hogg [00:23:10] Abstain. Question. Please, sir. Question.
BizNews Community member [00:23:12] Okay. Well, what I’m trying to say is, do you are you certain that your party is going to make, is going to be effective in doing that, because I think there’s definitely for the white parties to do that. But I’m sure it’d be much easier for you to pick two uncommitted ANC voters. So is your party taking votes from uncommitted voters or, I think you get the gist. You can also the question.
Alec Hogg [00:23:43] If we just do one at a time here Herman, so you know. Oh we do. I know this is not government. We do one at a time.
Herman Mashaba [00:23:52] I’m afraid, if you want to ask certainty from Herman Mashaba, you can’t get it because I can’t guarantee anything. I’ll be lying to you. I’ll be a politician. I can only tell you what I intend doing. Am I going to achieve it? Chances of achieving are high. But I might fail, I’m a human being, I’m fallible, so I can’t really give you certainities. Honestly, every time people ask me this question, people tell me I must give them assurance will I still be alive tomorrow. Yes, you can see how healthy I am right now. Will I still be alive tomorrow? I can’t guarantee that because this tent might just collapse and I’m the only person. Unfortunate, but I die from it. So I can’t really give you the guarantee. But [00:24:41]the guarantee, I can assure you, is that I’m working damn hard, more than hard. I thought when I was always running my business, in the 80s, doing 10,000km travel every month. I thought I was a hard working man, until I got into this terrible, brutal job. I’m what I’m working damn hard, and I’m working damn hard out to succeed. [22.8s] There’s a guarantee I can tell you in terms of voters who are my targeting. I’m targeting the 27.7 million South Africans who are registered to vote.
BizNews Community member [00:25:21] Thank you for your speech Herman, was very encouraging with regard to the ANC, will they give up power when they’re voted out?
Alec Hogg [00:25:30] You can, Herman. You don’t have to write it down. Will the ANC give up when they voted out?
Herman Mashaba [00:25:35] Why must I worry about the ANC giving up power? Oh, it’s not their business to whether they’d like to give up a power or not. The 27.7 million people, a big percentage of them being black people. If they do decide to vote ANC out of power, ANC will be out of power whether they like it or not. It’s not a question that we must concern ourselves with. The ANC will give up power, that’s what they actually thought when I was the mayor of the City of Johannesburg. They tried every trick in the book, to, to disrupt me.
And you know what? First week. After being elected. All the cadres in administration were all ANC people, from the city manager, Trevor Fowler, senior ANC person. I took them away after putting together a team in my office. I took all the 230 or so senior members. I spent four days with them to go through my plans, our plans, actually not my plan. And remember, if you remember well, after that I had a press conference to announce to South Africans what we’ve agreed on. We called it a ten point plan, what we agreed. In that ten point plan, the first thing that we agreed, and I needed a commitment from all of them to sign on on this ten point plan was, do they accept that the outcome of the elections? Are you happy that the elections were free and fair? Do you understand that I ran a multiparty government, a seven way coalition government.
So for all of you who are committed to working with us, you’re most welcome. Those who are not welcome are not committed. You want to still serve the ANC? Please. You just leave before I fire you. And the only way I’m going to make sure that you do your job. Let’s commit to do a skills audit, because I’m aware that some of you are not in this jobs because of what you know. You are in those jobs because of who you know. I said, I cannot, you cannot expect me. I must run government on behalf of society with the cadres. I must run this government to deliver to South Africans people based on on on merit? Fortunate enough, some of them ran away before the skills audit started. I remember I became, for some reason became unpopular with the media, telling me that I’m firing people.
I mean, every day I was being attacked by the media, that I’m getting rid of experienced technocrats and to my defence and I’m and I’m unapologetic about this, I said, you know, you guys are honestly talking nonsense. I’m getting rid of experienced thugs and thieves. I’m not getting rid of experienced people. There is a big difference. You know, because you are used to those people, stealing public moneys because they were there, you they’re experienced, yes, they’re experienced at stealing. They’re not experienced in providing services.
And I had about one thing that I discovered in the process, you know, within a month of being in the office because two days after I became the mayor, I wake up in the morning, Alec. Every paper gets delivered to my house when I wake up at the door. Every paper in Africa, Tswana, English. A new age of the Guptas delivered to my house. And I said, my goodness, what the hell is going on? So one of the days, I had an opportunity to talk to Trevor, for lunch, said Trevor, what on earth is happening? Who delivers these papers to my house. This is not, they deliver. You know how much you’re spending on these papers. 18 million Rands a year. All the senior people who have been delivered to the papers. I said Trevor when do those people work, if they’re going to be sitting there reading papers. You know that I don’t read papers even before I went into politics. I don’t read papers. If you see Herman Mashaba buying a paper, you must know he’s looking for something. I don’t read newspapers.
Then, DSTv, I hope if there’s anyone from DSTv. Don’t be angry with me. I had to save public money. All the senior managers. There’s a full bouquet of DStv costing a million a month. I said what nonsense guys. When are you going to work? You know, in the two years as a mayor, it is there, confirmed by the Auditor General, in 2019, before I left, because, I prepared, my exit report, which was signed off by the Auditor General. I managed to save 2 billion rands from this kind of stuff that I’m talking about. And is not a two billions rands of additional money that I’ve collected. You know, as the two buildings are moved at the time when I took over Johannesburg, [00:31:09][incoherent] [0.0s] was spending 51% on infrastructure. 51%? They forgot. I don’t know. I always used to tell people, and I’m saying this, I don’t know whether ANC, when they took over power in 1994, whether they didn’t know that, there’s what is called the, maintenance of properties and, your infrastructure. I don’t know whether they didn’t know or they forgot.
Honestly, because they were spending 51% by the time I left. If you look at my, my budget it is there, is a public document. I was already spending 72% on infrastructure, 2 billion of which wasn’t additional money that I was collecting. When I took over the city at the time that our revenue collection was running at a 87%. And I said to myself, my goodness, I come from the environment in business. I can tell you if my debt collection, debtor’s collection, is under 19%, I’ll kill someone. Government is happy to collect this 87, 88% said they were doing well. By the time I left, we were collecting 93%.
Alec Hogg [00:32:30] Can you do that at a national level? Is it possible to replicate that kind of success that you had in the city of Jo’burg on a national level?
Herman Mashaba [00:32:40] In fact, I think look, I have no experience. I don’t know what the president does, but honestly, I don’t know what the president does, but I think with my little experience of business, with the little experience and the privilege of serving as the mayor, understanding how government works, I think at national level will be much easier, because I’ll be able to pass policies that can actually speak to the lived experience of South Africans, not, anything else. Unlike when when you run a municipality, you are controlled to a large extent by national policies.
So at national level, I guess it’ll be much easier than than running a metro with policies designed by someone else. So in at national level, we’ll pass policies. The first policy will win pass. Will they show that? Well, we we revise, our labour legislation, the draconian labour legislation. We do away with the minimum wage, make sure that, people can, can get employment factories in Babalegi, in Mogwase. Let’s give them to the private sector. I’ll give them massive tax break. SA Airways, I’ll pay someone to take it over. You know, I’ll pay someone to take this airline away from my balance sheet. I don’t really need that. So in that way, I believe very strongly I have a sense that it will be much easier, at the national level.
I’ll make sure that our law enforcement agencies are run by professional people, uncompromised. Our prosecutor’s, independent of political, intervention. And I’ll unite South Africans, all South Africans about being South Africans. I will I will remove any, any discriminatory law in our statute book. We will remove that. The only thing you must ask me, if I employ people, don’t ask me how many blacks I employ, how many whites I employ. The only thing I’m prepared to ask me, ask me how many foreigners I employ. But in terms of South Africans, I don’t want, anything to do with with ticking boxes that I employ, so many blacks, so many white, so many Indians, so many colours. I want to know as government. How many people do you employ? And the more people you employ, we will give you incentives because they will help us reduce the number of people who are dependent on grants.
Alec Hogg [00:35:27] Herman Mashaba, thank you.
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