Since arriving in the UK more than two decades back, Reg Bamford’s Sable International has helped thousands of fellow South Africans set themselves up in his new homeland. But the London-based emigration expert offers some honest and rather direct advice for those considering following in his own footsteps: Don’t. In this interview at his London HQ yesterday he unpacked some better ways for would-be emigres to achieving the real objective, which for many is to ensure better opportunities for their children. – Alec Hogg
Iâm with Reg Bamford and he is the founder and Chief Executive of the Sable Group. Weâre here to talk about what youâre seeing in your business and it really is helping South Africans, but people from anywhere in the world to migrate. Are you seeing, given the chaos thatâs going on in South Africa at the moment that thereâs been an uptake?
Yes, itâs very bittersweet for us because you know weâre very proud South Africans and we want to see the country do well, but the problem right now is, the news emanating out of the country and all the stuff thatâs happening, there are some dumb things been done in the country. I mean there are some really bad things happening at all the campuses and unfortunately, or fortunately that benefits our business because we are here to help people internationalise themselves and their wealth and their business, so anyone who is in South Africa who is looking to sort of externalise their wealth or even their family, we are there to help them.
Are you finding that given the ructions that weâre seeing in South Africa of late, that your business is starting to reflect that?
Yes Alec, I would say that the biggest driver that weâve found from my experience is where people have young kids and they are thinking about what future those kids have. So theyâre thinking where do they go to school and I think even more crucially now, where do they go to university. We will always argue that a decision to move you and your family and kids out of South Africa is a very big decision and itâs a very difficult decision and from a financial perspective it sometimes doesnât make sense. There are several things that I think people should bear in mind, because the grass is not always greener on the other side. First of all, I think if you are simply looking at it from a property transaction, youâre going to sell your house in South Africa and letâs say you have a nice house, itâs R4mn or R5mn worth of house, well thatâs going to get you about ÂŁ200 000, ÂŁ250 000 worth of property here.
That is a two-bedroomed house with no garden down in Tooting. Now that is a big shock, so just from a property transaction youâre behind the eight ball. So you have the cost of the move and then I think if you start thinking about schooling your children, you are going to take your kid or kids out of probably quite a good school in South Africa. Thereâs nothing wrong with the school system back there. To send a kid to a private school here is going to cost you 30 000 Quid after tax, now thatâs R600 000, so if you have a couple of kids thatâs a lot of change.
Then finally we would say that I think that it takes you several years to start earning the sort of sum of money as a salary here that you would be expecting in South Africa, so I think that you take a knock financially from a salary perspective. Now if you put all those things together, people have to be very clear as to why they are leaving South Africa. Sure, there might be some very emotional reasons, perhaps theyâve been held up or whatever it is, but if itâs around your kids, we think that thereâs another solution for you and you donât have to physically move the whole family out of South Africa. We actually think that thereâs another solution available to you.
Okay, talk to me.
Well, we still think that the school systems back home are great. So what we say is continue your career down in South Africa. You donât have to take a backward step. Continue living in this great house that youâve got and send your kids to the great school that theyâre currently going to, but you can look at international options for them at university. Now thereâs a student visa that the UK offers and if you start preparing yourself financially for the cost of that, you donât have to physically relocate just to send your kid to a university here. We have a package, which starts people on that journey of saving financially for it and it basically means that the kid or kids can get a student visa at a reasonably good UK university, a three-year degree.
Read also:Â How to manage financial emigration: three steps for South Africans moving or living abroad
Unfortunately, the three years doesnât count towards a British passport, but there are some great alternatives to flick that over to a work permit at the end of the three years and after five years on a work permit here in the UK youâve got grounds to qualify as a British citizen. There are two more points that I would make. The first is that if someone becomes a citizen in that manner then their kids, wherever theyâre born in the world, their kids, so the grandchildren of this family that Iâve just been talking about, their grandchildren will be British citizens and thatâs a fantastic gift to bestow on your kids and your grandkids.
If you were to buy British citizenship, if it was available on the open market say, what do you think it would be worth?
You know some people would argue that itâs actually priceless. I donât know, but I think thatâs a very attractive alternative to this real conundrum that a family is facing right now, is the wrench of having to relocate and to pack everything in, I think is a very difficult decision. I think itâs easier if youâre a sort of 30-year old, but I think once youâve hit your forties, I think thatâs a very difficult decision as South African to make.
So Reg, youâre saying South Africans who are thinking of emigrating for their childrenâs sake, donât.
I think if it is just for their childrenâs sake, I would say consider what your objective is and if your objective is to internationalise your kids, give them an international education, an international passport then I think that they should seriously consider something like this.
So there are alternatives. In other words, you donât have to pack up the whole lot, go through all the emotional trauma. If you think about it rationally you can contribute or continue to contribute to South Africa, but achieve your objective.
Absolutely, and I think people should not underestimate how difficult it is to find a job here and to start earning the sums of money that you are probably used to back home. You know I meet people on a weekly basis, theyâre trying to land a role here, theyâre trying to expand their network here, and theyâre here six months before they even get a role. I mean thatâs incredibly tough.
The final piece of the puzzle is that after the five or ten years that the kid has been her, got their degree and perhaps naturalised as a British citizen, there are ways in which one can internationalise your earnings and itâs actually a product that we have for those people who perhaps want to retire. You can go to Portugal and you can apply for a tax free status and if you can structure you earnings, so that itâs not salary-based anymore, itâs either a pension or itâs interest or itâs dividends, youâre able to earn tax free for ten years with the benefit of being much closer to your kids and grandkids here in the UK.
Read also:Â Emigration expert JP Breytenbach: Economics strongest motivator for SAs moving to UK
It sounds to me like there are various different ways that one can address the objective that you might have if youâre concerned about South Africaâs future, youâre concerned about the way that maybe crime and violence are going without packing your bags, getting on aeroplane and going and living in Tooting.
I think itâs just such a huge decision to relocate up there. Itâs far easier to do it when you are just out of school or just out of university or youâre just kind of starting out, but I think once you put those deep roots in, you have a reasonably good job, you have your house and you have your mortgage and you have your lifestyle, we are finding people find it very difficult to actually relocate at that point in their lives because they have to take a backward step.
There are lots of South Africans in London, itâs crawling with them. Do you think these are all people who didnât think it through or might there be other reasons?
Look, I suspect itâs crawling with South Africans because theyâve been here five or ten or 15 years and they could easily have come over on that old two-year working holiday visa or theyâve perhaps come over on an ancestry visa, but they havenât necessarily had to bring their kids over. You know theyâve come over at a stage in their lives when itâs actually reasonably easy to relocate. I think once you hit your forties and fifties, itâs very expensive and itâs a very emotional decision, I think itâs quite difficult.
Your business is based on helping people to globalise and also helping people to come to the UK from South Africa. Are you now actually saying to them, âDonâtâ?
Thatâs actually the paradox of this service that weâve got. So look, there are a whole bunch that suit those people that do want to come over. We have a very innovative solution for those who want to come over on the tier one visa, where they can actually buy a business here in the UK. It then gives them an income from day one and of course thereâs the ancestry visa if you have a UK-born grandparent or a spousal visa if youâre married to a British citizen but it all depends on what your objectives are.
If you as the family want to relocate, absolutely fine, you know we can help you there, but if itâs just for your kids, we say âHang on, just take a deep breath, get some really good adviceâ because if your ultimate objective is to internationalise your kidsâ life and their earnings and their nationality, you donât have to relocate, just the kid has to and they can do it at the right time, which is, I think after they leave school.
I sounds very rational, very logical and he right thing to do, but when many of the South Africans that Iâve met who are living in the UK now, didnât do it with that in mind, they had an incident, they had a blow up somewhere and emotions took over, that can be expensive.
Oh yes, no sure and I have the deepest sympathy for them, but again, I think if you are clear about what youâre wanting to achieve then what we are finding is itâs largely around the kids and itâs to give your kids the best possible outcome, well then think about a solution around the kids rather than you having to compromise financially, your lifestyle, etcetera.
Reg, to put that aside for a while, it is the kind of business that youâre involved in, are you finding, (to get back to what we started off with), that demand for your services from South Africa is growing?
Yes Alec, I think it is. We have a whole bunch of seminars coming up next month and weâre confident that weâre going to fill those rooms with people who are looking to internationalise themselves and actually each one of our businesses, we are seeing some good growth, we have pivoted our business towards South Africa and South Africans because we do recognise that itâs a pretty volatile time, both politically and economically. Sadly, weâve probably formed the view that we are bears in terms of what the next five or ten years might look like and I think that a reasonably well-to-do South African who is in a position to internationalise themselves whether itâs their wealth or their business, I think that theyâre taking a long, hard look at that because I think that they are like that frog in a pot of boiling water, that water has suddenly become a bit hotter.
Reg Bamford is with the Sable Group.
