BNC#8: Prince Mashele Q&A - Why it's time for South Africa's best minds to take power

A bold call to action: South Africa needs more than talk - it needs execution. Educated citizens must step into politics, fund change, and build a credible, merit-driven alternative to failing systems. This vision demands courage, sacrifice, and unity across races and classes to restore hope, drive growth, and reclaim the country’s future through competent, ethical leadership..Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox at 5:30am weekdays. Register here.Support South Africa’s bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here.If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here..Watch here.Listen here.Edited transcript of the Q&A.Alec Hogg (00:10:11 - 00:42:00)Okay. Tell us about the plan. What happens next? Brilliant. Inspiring. Lots of people giving you applause because they love what you are saying. But what happens next? Who takes it to implement? Where's the execution? Not complicated. You see, I am an educated fellow.Prince Mashele (00:42:04 - 01:08:02)Not complicated. You see, I am an educated fellow.Yeah. If there English is a mark of education, I'm sure you can tell that I'm relatively educated too. I'm not rich. I'm middle class. Can afford to look after my children, I consult. I'm a consultant. But you see, it is people like me and people like you who must get out of the comfort zone and now go into politics.(01:08:06 - 01:41:18)So who implements it? It is the highly educated among blacks, and they're highly educated among whites who must implement this. The president remember I said about about the Afrikaans and the English, the president this country is a majority black country must be a competent and credible black person. The deputy President from for the first time since 1994. If you are serious about this project, must be a competent and ethical white of the party and of this state.(01:41:30 - 02:06:26)We must inspire both. And when I say black, I also include coloreds and I also include Indians. So how do we do it? Let's put together this group. Number one, I would be willing to be part of that group. Number two and by the way, that the list is there, I can tell you the list is there. Number two, and this is the biggest challenge those.(02:06:30 - 02:37:07)So I will be willing to contribute my life. It's a life changing thing. My life will be on the line. I could be killed. The ANC flags are not going to for their arms. So the biggest donor, if I go into it, it would be me. Secondly, those with money must contribute money because politics is expensive. If you want to do this thing on a massive scale different from Mzansi and the Little Mickey Mouse project, you have to do it massively.(02:37:07 - 03:05:08)It's money. So the question is, I am prepared to contribute my life. Are you prepared to contribute your skills and your money? That is the question. And when I talk to some of you, you are a little worried that this is going to destroy the day. No, that's not the point. The point is to replace the ANC component in government with a proper group of qualified, trained South Africans.(03:05:09 - 03:25:16)If you don't do that, then do let me tell you. Forget what Helen was telling you. The DA will never be the government of South Africa if you don't do what I'm telling you about. Look at the numbers. I was here when Helen, and by the way I've endorsed her in Joburg publicly and me and he agreed here that we're going to do a podcast where I promote.(03:25:23 - 03:35:49)I will do it. So I'm not the of the deal. But here is the thing. The DA now has 23% of the national vote.(03:36:03 - 04:12:47)If you actually analyse the numbers, the ANC actually hasn't shifted because the ANC is the ANC of Ramaphosa , Umkhonto we Sizwe is the ANC is the EFF is the ANC that gives you 63%? The DA has never made any any mark and it will not make a mark. So the next move is the team money, technical expertise and strategy and a serious massive plan.Alec Hogg (04:13:01 - 04:43:44)It's the first time I've heard a credible alternative to the likely reality. The DaA does well in the next election. MK is there, EFF is there, Ramaphosa is replaced. MK, EFF, ANC together they're all socialists. They are they haven't budged. And you've you've made that point. So if I understand you correctly, you're saying we need a new project.(04:43:44 - 05:11:20)We need the country need something that is going to get maybe more people to vote to start off with, to have hope. But secondly, that can be an alternative to the continued decline which is preached by the Socialist Party. Am I reading you correctly? Prince MasheleYou are spot on, Alec. You see, a country does not move unguided. Some people must plan the future of a country.(05:11:24 - 05:36:40)This idea that things will just happen unplanned. It's a sad, dangerous fallacy. So yes, we need. And the ANC is discredited. And I can tell you the majority of black people are ready for this thing. But they say wherever I go, they say, Prince, but you, the educated, why are you not taking us forward now? A market based economy.(05:36:40 - 06:03:18)No socialist madness. This socialism has been tried all over the world. It has failed. There's no question about it. Even the Chinese, by the way. Then shopping had to wait for Mao to die in 1976. He had to realize that this chap must die. The hardcore communist and turn around China and look at China today. So yes, we need a different project and it is doable.(06:03:22 - 06:30:30)And that project must never involve political rejects. Non of anybody who occupied a position in a political party must come and occupy a leadership position on that project. It must be fresh professionals who have never been in politics. Here is the end game, the end game, the DA and that project ultimately would actually constitute the government of South Africa.(06:30:34 - 06:56:11)So the so those who are scared that this thing is going to take the DA. No no no no no no. This project will not cross the 51% mark the first time. But the game is that it must get enough votes, particularly from traditional ANC voters who, by the way, are middle class, who live in the township in Soweto.(06:56:11 - 07:14:39)Soweto people are middle class people. Tembisa people are middle class people. This is someone who goes to church, who has a husband, who has children. This is the bulk of those who have been voting for the ANC. The bulk of those who have been voting for the EFF are actually those who live in informal settlements. That's why the EFF it's not growing.(07:14:39 - 07:40:02)Actually, it will decline. And this is what most people actually don't understand. I hope I've answered your question. Alec HoggIs it is it another macron? No it's a well well, well it it depends. Or you can use whichever. Whichever. Look I have studied projects like this and I said to you I for this project, if you want to understand where was it done and what does it look like?(07:40:14 - 08:10:40)It's Lee Kuan Yew. It is Lee Kuan Yew. There's a book from Fed Wealth to First Wealth. It's a script as to how it's done. One, it's a meritocratic project, unforgivably so. It's merit. If you do not have a post matric qualification, you cannot occupy a leadership position. Even consider if we go to a rural area.(08:10:40 - 08:41:10)It was the teachers, retired teachers. You say look for the guy in the rural areas who is educated to inspire kids to go to school, because if you don't go to school, you won't succeed. That's the idea. So it is. It is, Lee Kuan Yew. It is not Macron. Alec HoggBut this is very similar to what we heard at the very first BizNews conference in the opening address by Herman Mashaba.(08:41:14 - 09:12:48)This was Mashaba's project. This was what he was going to do. He didn't have a political party at that stage. He then created ActionSA thereafter. It started so brilliantly. You've written is biography what went wrong and what will be different with this project? Prince MasheleMashaba I'm not sure if he's still here. He committed two, mistakes.09:13:02 - 09:45:10The first mistake he failed to put together a big enough pool of credible, competent leaders. Didn't. So if you said ActionSA beyond him, you would struggle.Alec HoggAthol Trollip ?Prince MasheleOkay, let let's put it this way. If you said, okay, ActionSA, we give you the country. Show us your cabinet. Would you be convinced that there's a cabinet essay?09:45:19 - 10:17:21No, my answer is no. The first thing you do, don't say we will form a party. vote for us. When we win, we will now go look for these people. No. That's the mistake committed by ActionSA and the rest of them. Find the people and show South Africa way before the elections and say, here is a a cabinet so that even those, by the way, who are going to invest their money in the project, they must see this cabinet and say, here is the cabinet.(10:17:21 - 10:41:17)Mashaba didn't do that. That's the first mistake. The second mistake. Mashaba dribble this, support us. This is what he told South Africa. He's forming his party in order to remove the ANC from power. That's what he said and people were excited. And what does he do down the road? He has a little squabble with Helen. He goes to partner with the same party.10:41:21 - 10:53:35He said he wants to remove from ANC from power. Why must a person like that be trusted? That's my question.Alec Hogg (10:53:39 - 11:16:39)So I guess what you're saying to us is that the new project would be Macron like, in a way, and it'll bring people from outside of politics. And Macron showed that it is possible to take over. But secondly it'll stick to what it tells people beforehand and what it will be. Showing people beforehand is a project that they can believe in.(11:16:43 - 11:41:28)Is there sufficient support from South Africans? From what? What you've seen, what the polls are telling us from your what your gut is telling you. Prince MasheleYou just don't understand. I get stopped by security guards in shopping malls in the rural areas. And for me, the moving part was this. I'm driving with my family from Polokwane. Those who know Limpopo will know this.(11:41:32 - 12:11:01)There's a Sasol garage in Mokapa. We stop over there going to buy whatever. Two guys wearing uniforms in an ambulance. I can see they're talking about me. When I come back, they stop me. They say, look, one of them says, look, Mr Mashele, look at me. They told us that our uniform is our pride. How can I be proud of this torn boots?(12:11:02 - 12:39:15)The ANC government has never given us uniform over the past seven years. They have stolen the money and he says, please don't stop what you are doing. You are doing it for us. You don't understand. So the black community has shifted. They are looking for this project to even white South Africans. I get stopped at airports, but why South Africans who say hey, just go and look at the comments.(12:39:15 - 13:02:01)After I've given an interview to a podcast. The biggest was Swize Mpofu where I clocked 1.5 million viewers. Just look at the comments. Prince for president. I don't have presidential ambitions, but that's what people are saying. So my sense is that South Africans, we are now on the edge of the cliff. We want something to be done, but we all are wondering who's going to do it.(13:02:05 - 13:32:19)My answer is it is you. It's you and I. If you and I are not prepared to do it, nobody else is going to save this country. Alec HoggI'll get back to the initial question. What's next? What? What after the fantastic. Inspiring. We're all excited. Are you going to open up a fund? Get Rob Hersov of to put a couple of billion in and then the rest of us for the.Prince Mashele (13:32:23 - 14:03:06)Those of us who are working on this plan, a bit ahead and I have not been given the permission to disclose all the details, but what I can tell you is that there is a planning team, number one. Number two, there is an NGO already registered rescue South Africa. This NGO is going to be used as a tool to mobilise and invite South Africans who want to rescue their country to come and work in this project.(14:03:07 - 14:28:26)So my project and the planning team project. So what next? You are welcome to call me and all of you. I'd like you to be involved in it. Where I can tell you they are credible South Africans involved in this project. It's not some Mickey Mouse little thing. They are credible South Africans who are involved in this project, who will say we are at fault.(14:28:35 - 14:49:34)We cannot allow criminals to run away with our beautiful country. So what next? There is work to be done. You're welcome to contact me and I'll come to your town with my team to share with you the details and to talk to you as to what is it that you can. We're not only looking for money. We're looking for expertise.(14:49:38 - 14:58:19)All of us must contribute something.Alec Hogg (14:58:23 - 15:27:09)In a number of discussions that I have, particularly with what people. There is a belief that there is a chunk of our population who are uneducated and don't know better than voting for the ANC. Now, I always counter that by saying the business people I've met who have worked at the bottom of the pyramid say you will never train smarter people than those who operate at that area.(15:27:13 - 15:51:15)But the counter is but they don't understand politics. And they'll keep voting for the ANC or those people. I'd like to get your understanding of of of that, because those are the people who will transform this country, not with respect those of us in the room here. Prince Masheleyou see, this is what we must understand about politics.15:51:19 - 16:25:37Politics must always be led by the educated and the elite in society. Full stop. Anybody who believes otherwise, you are not building a country. If you look at the ANC from its origins, the majority 98% of the black population at the time was uneducated, by the way, uneducated. But the black elite of the time took it upon themselves to fashion a political project and said to the masses, they are own people.(16:25:41 - 16:52:31)Here we are. We are your leaders. We want to take you in the right direction. And what did the uneducated do? They followed the black elite. So this idea that, you can't appeal to the masses is absolute nonsense. My mother is. She's 86, uneducated. She would vote for a project like that. My cousin's people in the township are without jobs.(16:52:35 - 17:13:41)If you present to them, this is what this project will do. You will have employment, let me tell you. Those masses can shift, but they need to be directed by proper people. If they are not directed by proper people, they will end up in the hands of Umkhonto we Sizwe in the hands of Malema, and we may need to emigrate I'll to Botswana.(17:14:00 - 17:38:29)And by the way, the project I'm talking about, look at, President Boyko in, in Botswana. He was a lawyer driving a Corolla before the elections. They dismissed him. He told them, we will do it. They dismissed him. He did it in Kenya. Ghana was removed. How was it? We have studied those strategies, including Obama strategy. How does a black guy get white people in the US to vote for you?(17:38:33 - 18:05:01)So you have to plan very carefully and detail. The masses can always build.Alec HoggJohn Marks question to you who are some of the human beings that you recommend move into the political theater to elbow out the scoundrels Prince MasheleI'll take a risk. So I was never given the permission to disclose the list.(18:05:04 - 18:14:01)But when I use it, this is and we will do it if we get it with.(18:14:04 - 18:29:26)The Springboks, who is the coach of the Springboks? You know, if Rassie. Can you imagine if you made Rassie the Minister of Sports?(18:29:30 - 18:37:46)If Rassie is watching or if he's going to watch this, you must expect a call from me.(18:38:00 - 19:05:49)At some point he's retiring. We will force him kicking and screaming to be Minister of Sports in South Africa. Why? He has put together, I would argue, the most successful rugby team, and he knows how to pick the best talent from blacks and from whites. That is the kind of South Africa we must build. He must not worry.(19:06:03 - 19:30:45)I know what you will say. It will say about a prince. I am not a politician. I'm not a politician myself. I have never been in politics. My sense. We will get the best brains behind him to advise him and take him through. But he is going to lead sports. So I have given you the one name that is going to be in that team.Alec Hogg (19:30:49 - 19:56:22)Is a very useful president just to the north of us. Kirsty Coventry, the most meddled, swimmer I think until Tatiana. Yeah. Last year became minister of sport in Zimbabwe and she is now the president of the IOC International Olympic Committee. So it shows maybe you can say to Rassie, well, you know, you could be the IOC president someday.(19:56:26 - 20:23:19)Something along those lines too. But the point is good that it's meritocracy. Prince MasheleThe point is we want to suck out talent that is disgruntled and say to the talent, hey, we are uprooting you from not even from your comfort zone, because that talent is no longer comfortable. It's restless. We are uprooting you. You're going into politics and fix your own country.(20:23:23 - 20:59:10)That's the point. Alec HoggRob Hersov is in the obviously is in the audience is Prince. Give us circa ten names of the people you would consider your Council of experts? Prince MashelePart of the things and I'm at the risk of revealing important details. Part of the project is to create what we call a council of wisdom. So this it has never been done by any political party.(20:59:14 - 21:25:35)We go around asking elderly South Africans above 60 who have done sterling work in the private sector, in the NGO, in academia, to be members of this association. They will be the sounding board. They will do two things. Number one, they will be a sounding board for the leadership. So from time to time, if they come and they will be independent.(21:25:37 - 21:45:37)These are people who are high achievers, so they have no reason to buy our faces. When we veer off the road, they will tell us who said this. People have veered off the road. Whatever this council of elders will say, we will take seriously and respect. And let me tell you, we have begun talking to some of them and some of these names.(21:45:37 - 22:08:48)You know, it's unfortunate. I can tell you now.Alec HoggGreg asks in an interview, you mentioned you could win the election if you were given 2 billion rand. If the BizNews tribe gave you that 2 billion rand, how would you spend it? And who would you align yourself with? Who would you then appoint to the main ministries.(22:08:48 - 22:16:36)And the ministries is a tricky one its that list again. It will spark that. But here is the thing.(22:16:40 - 22:50:41)You see, I had a meeting with, some fellow here yesterday says went to a meeting in downtown, with 500 people. It says it's amazing how entrenched the ANC is in black communities. He says the tuberculosis ANC, the scarf is ANC. Everything is ANC. You know what that is? It's money. It is money. Someone has bought that tablecloth, someone has bought that scarf, someone has bought that T-shirt.(22:50:45 - 23:12:21)So just imagine if we printed350 million T-shirts. Those of you are in the textile industry, just work it out. You know how much a T-shirt is? 30 million T-shirts. We flood all South African townships and rural areas with the colors of that part. Let me tell you, that moment will represent a turning point in South African politics at turning point.(23:12:25 - 23:35:29)Can you imagine if we filled up the FNB stadium? There are only two political parties that have done. The DA has actually never had guts to do it. It's expensive. Number one, you fill up the FNB Stadium two weeks before the elections. The ANC calls it Siyanqoba Rally. We are winning you actually. So you take the playbook of the ANC, which I know very well, which Zuma use in KwaZulu-Natal.(23:35:29 - 23:57:24)That's why he could do this. You fill up the FNB Stadium, you organize busses that go all over South Africa to bring South Africans. All of you fly a helicopter with balloons of this new project in Soweto. Everyone is excited and say this is a government in waiting, but you have also shown them the cabinet that I won't tell you now.(23:57:28 - 24:20:07)You take over this other film government in 2019. You see, if people don't believe something that they have never seen done in their community, that's why they are doubting this thing. But I'm giving you cases. Morgan Tsvangirai in Zim, by the way. They said you would never defeat Zanu-PF. Yes he did, and I know the strategy he did.(24:20:11 - 24:42:21)They simply refused to hand over power to him. The ANC is so weak it does not even control our security forces, by the way, they won't resist because our security forces will not collaborate in that project. So I'm telling you, ladies and gentlemen, it can be done. So where does the 2 billion go? It goes into that kind of a lot of expenditure.(24:42:25 - 25:11:30)30 million t-shirts FNB. If you are going to call people professionals who have jobs from their work and say join this project, you have to pay them. You can't say, come and join this project. Sorry, you can't afford steak. They won't come. And we have spoken to some of them and they've said yes, on condition that you can prove to us that you can look after us financially.(25:11:30 - 25:33:00)We are not going to go hungry. So the money will go into work. We have calculated how many bakkies because we need bakkies, how many bakkies the province needs? How many a region needs all of that detail? How many drivers will be there for the province? How many? It's a lot of money, but a billion rand actually can do it not 2.Alec Hogg (25:33:00 - 26:02:16)Well, I was in London from 2016 to 2019 and had a number of interesting meetings around the time of the Cr17 campaign with people in London who told me how they were supporting, how Pravin Gordhan had gone there to raise capital. So that's another possible opportunity for you. Prince MasheleTakek me there, take me there.Alec Hogg (26:02:20 - 26:28:00)Well, the diaspora, as a, as a, an area people want to come home, but they can't yet. Prince MasheleThey must come back home. This is their home. They must come back. Alec HoggWhy do you feel the DA is white politics from a network land and yet Kruger of work. Prince MasheleYeah, but there's a thing. You see, one of the things that I have decided to do in my work is to tell the truth.26:28:04 - 26:50:10Raw as it is. Ladies and gentlemen, you know, the DA's a white pot. I am not fooling you. You you know it. You also know it. Let, forget the propaganda. You know who is the leader? Yeah. Who are the leaders? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So? So let us not tire. You see, I'm wearing glasses, so I'm not blind, I can see.(26:50:14 - 27:22:04)So if you have eyes, who can see? You know what I'm talking about. So you see, when a country is burning, it's not time to lie to each other and to fully chart the day. It's a white party. We have done white politics. That's why if you look 23% versus what, 77% and 63% of that is actually in the ANC, it's not making any movement, just done well in the Western Cape, without a doubt.(27:22:08 - 27:47:26)And if you ask me, I don't want the day to be removed as the government of the Western Cape, if you ask me, governing. Well, compared to everyone, everywhere else, and I travel. But that will not crack the big vote. You need a big vote in order to transform the whole of South Africa. So to answer your question, you know the answer.Alec Hogg (27:47:30 - 28:01:25)We all know the answer. And stop bullshitting yourself. See the world as it is, not as you want it to. Prince MasheleEven as I like Helen. Helen, I endorsed her for Joburg , but the fact remains.(28:01:29 - 028:32:27)David Turnbull says try to put a number on to how much money would be directed to education. If your redress plan were to be implemented. Prince MasheleSo I'm not going to lie, this plan we have worked out the principles, the detail in terms of the budget of that specific plan, are still being finalised. And by the way, we are open to working with people in the private sector to finalise that project, not our plan.(28:32:27 - 28:58:01)It has to be there has to be Buy-In by those who are going to fork out their money to support it. You see, if I'm paying tax, get me involved in how in the decisions, how my tax is going to be spent. That's how I approach. So we want those who are going to fork out the money to be involved in the finalization of the detail of the project, but the principle is non-negotiable.(28:58:01 - 29:18:45)We must educate black kids. We must make sure we improve math and science in black schools. That is non-negotiable, because if we don't, we know we are in trouble. So there is no figure on that project. But the principle of communicated.(29:18:49 - 29:43:16)Kerry asks the brilliant black folk are so well-paid in the private sector that they can't leave to participate in politics. So how do we make this happen? Prince MasheleThey don't understand. So I'm flying from Cape Town. Three weeks ago. The black guy stops me at the airport. He's also flying to Johannesburg. Introduce himself. Is from KwaZulu-Natal. He's top engineer.(29:43:20 - 30:02:43)I didn't know the guy. He says I've been looking for you. Okay? He says, look, I've been listening to you. I watch your podcast. You are saying we the educated, must do something. He says, look, I'm not poor, unsuccessful. I'm responding to your call. What must I do? I said, are you serious? Says yes. I said to him, I live in Bamako.(30:02:44 - 30:36:00)Separate. Let me set up my diary. Do you play golf? He says yes. I said, good round of golf in Morocco. The guy came, was serious. He can't play golf with him. I said, tell me, would you be willing to leave your job and go and be a politician in this new project? He says any time for the sake of my children, you just don't understand the depth of the frustrations and the willingness by South Africans to turn the situation around, he says to me, I've worked on big projects involving Eskom.(30:36:09 - 31:04:04)I have seen corruption. I see it every day and I don't want my children to live in a. For a guy like me, I'm an academic, I enjoy commenting and so on. To take this step, to say I am willing to be a part of group dip. It's not a joke.Alec HoggLuka asks how do you get how do young professionals outside of politics get involved?(31:04:08 - 31:12:15)We want them, remember I said there's an NGO, so this is what will happen that.(31:12:19 - 31:35:45)There will be a national roadshow by this project provided we get the money provide if we don't have the money. And let me make this very clear, if we don't get the money, we'll simply stop. I'll just go to Bronco's street and live there. I'm not doing this for myself. In any case, if I go into politics. By the way, I'm probably one of those who are highly paid to outside politics.(31:35:45 - 32:06:15)I'm going to make a loss. So if we get the money, the plan is we will go around the country to consult with South Africans. Number one, number two, to identify the best minds in local communities. So the young people we want them to participate. So if we select them, sift, here's a brilliant young person. We will make sure that this young person is supported to be part of the leadership of that area.(32:06:19 - 32:30:28)Because remember, I am not going to fix anything back. It is the best of left and back. We have been elbowed out by the ANC who must fix left wing back so young people there will be space for them to participate in the project to fix their own communities. They will be the brightest who must be catapulted to the national and provincial level.(32:30:40 - 32:58:21)Those mines. We need them and will make an assessment at this juncture. Brilliant. Must go straight to the provincial structure or the national structure. Alec HoggSo the what you're telling us is that it is going to be a project that will be well publicized and easy enough for anyone to participate, either in person or financially. It must share a bit of detail.Prince Mashele (32:58:25 - 33:21:26)I must share a bit of detail. At some point, an announcement will be made. I'm not going to tell you when, because I can tell you the opponents are watching this an announcement will be made. It clear process of how people participate in it will be announced a clear funding, and it's not going to be funded mainly and only by the billionaires. We don't want to be controlled.(33:21:30 - 33:50:02)It will be funded by the South African public. The billionaires have a role to play. They will provide. We need their generous support. But even people who are not billionaires, there will be a category of people who can actually contribute to the extent that they can, and the public also will, will, will contribute. So yes, it will be public, it will be announced, there will be no confusion about it, including who to contact.Alec Hogg (33:50:06 - 34:17:04)Prince, are you going to pilot your project in your home municipality in Limpopo in this year's election? Jeremy Wiley Prince MasheleFirstly, I don't come from Limpopo . I know I'm dark and complexion. So people conclude this chap is black is coming from Limpopo. No, you are wrong. I come from Mpumalanga? I'm from Bush Park Ridge. No.(34:17:07 - 34:39:36)The local government elections will come and go. This project is not going to be get involved in that. We are planning for the big elections in 20. You need a lot of planning and preparation before that. One of the things that made the previous projects to fail was to plan for an election tomorrow. This must be planned properly.(34:39:40 - 35:09:36)We must hit and not miss. 2029 and the local government elections that will come after that. Then we will participate or will have our proper mayors for those towns and for those cities. Unfortunately, we don't have time to participate in this. Alec HoggThe 2029 election will come and go. I presume it means your project will only be released after November, after the local elections or before.Prince Mashele (35:09:40 - 35:39:26)I will not tell it timing, but it will not be this year. The elections must come and go. And then let's see. Let's watch this space next year. Alec HoggDoes Prince have any views on the size of a potential cabinet in the future? And what ministries should be kept, merged or closed? Prince Mashele (35:39:30 - 36:06:19)If the project goes according to plan, let me tell you what's going to happen and this will shock you. It will be the Da that will resist that. Yes, it will be the DA that will resist that. You know why? Because the DA has interests. There are people who have been working there who would want spoils. But from our side, none of us have been attached to any political patronage and so on.(36:06:19 - 36:36:25)So we will have a deal from the beginning, from among ourselves guys. We will have 21 ministers, including the president. The DA will resist it, but we will fight them and say we saving South Africans money. Number one. Number two, there will be no Deputy minister. What do they do? And if we get the support, hold us to what I am saying to you.(36:36:32 - 37:02:02)Remind me and say you lied to us. There shall be no deputy ministers. This country's account of 6265 million, right? We don't need 30 something cabinet ministers. We don't need deputy ministers. Two Deputy minister, this is a patronage network. We want to break it and have an efficient, competent government side by side with a thriving and competitive private sector.Alec Hogg (37:02:08 - 37:20:05)If you were a member of the DA, if you were a senior in the DA during the time of the GNU, would you have joined the Government of National Unity? Prince MasheleYes, I would have supported a government of national unity for a reason. I'm pragmatic.(37:20:09 - 37:44:23)If you if the DA did not join the government of national unity, would you be having a government that involves the ANC, the EFF or uMkhonto weSizwe? That would have been disaster! I don't think I'll be sitting here because we know what those people do. They steal. So yes, I would have joined to save my country. So the GNU is a shock absorber.(37:44:35 - 38:04:42)It's not fixing anything. It's just, you know, reducing the rate of decline. By the way, the criminals Cat Matlala have continued in the presence of John Steeinhuisen in cabinet. They have not been disturbed by that. By the way. But John, actually the criminals have been running rings around John. He was not even aware. He's now shocked when he watches the Zondo Commission.(38:04:46 - 38:25:10)I would have joined to to to be a shock absorber, but I would be smarter in play in planning as to how to dribble the ANC in that arrangement. Alec HoggThere is a last question and we have run out of time from Johannes Vessels, and I think a few DA members and supporters are very angry with you.(38:25:10 - 38:43:39)Say it's a white party. Say the DA is a 20% party white population, only 8%. So who are the other voters? Prince MasheleYou see, you see the answer? You give them an answer. I remember you said you know the answer. So they must not only be angry with me. They must also be angry with you. (38:43:43 - 39:04:28)Please. I have a partner in this crime. So don't be angry. Both of us know that it's a white party. Alec HoggThe proportion of white voters is far higher than other population groups. And if you talk about. Come on, guys, I mean, be honest, look at the leadership of the DA , it's I have a friend and I think he's here.(39:04:32 - 39:28:26)He played golf a little while ago with President Trump and Elon Musk. Elon Musk doesn't play golf. And he walked with Elon Musk down the 18 hole of the 18 holes and had a lot of conversation with me. He asked Elon Musk, he said to him, do you have any hope for South Africa? An Elon Musk, he said, was really strange.(39:28:26 - 39:52:19)He waited for 30s and didn't say anything and then said no. And he asked Elon. He said, why? You said demographics. Now if you in this room look around, look around Paul Mashatile last year came here, spoke. He said, I've never seen so many white people in one place at one time.(39:52:23 - 40:13:01)Let's see the world as it is, not as we want to be. The DA is not, it is not a black party. It is not a demographically positioned party that can win election, dominance in this country. Prince Mashele (40:13:05 - 40:43:48)Alec can i say one thing , and one, I want to remind people in this room. South Africa is a majority black country. Please accept it. That's number one. Number two, remember what I said. The English when they struck a deal with the Afrikaners, they understood that the Afrikaners were a majority. That's why the leader of the state throughout those years was always African. Please keep that in mind from the history of white politics in South Africa.Alec Hogg (40:44:02 - 40:59:33)And thank you for throwing me under the bus.

BNC#8: Prince Mashele Q&A - Why it's time for South Africa's best minds to take power

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