BNC#8: Rory Steyn Q&A - Kidnappings rising, police under fire and leaders called out

South Africa’s crime crisis is under the spotlight as insiders expose rising kidnappings, failing leadership, and police misconduct. From shocking stories of VIP protection abuse to real risks facing ordinary citizens, this conversation pulls no punches. Hear how corruption, weak accountability, and poor systems are fueling insecurity - and what can actually be done to fix it. With firsthand experience and bold opinions, this is a gripping look at a country battling to restore trust, safety, and justice..Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox at 5:30am weekdays. Register here.Support South Africa’s bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here.If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here..Watch here.Listen here.Edited transcript of the Q&A.Alec Hogg 00:19:37 - 00:52:31Well, then Rory and I hadn't followed the latest Paul Mashatile bodyguard story. But I do remember speaking to you at the time of the other famous story. Now, there are surely people here who would love an update on what happened with the other famous story. Because if if those guys who had been fired for beating up some old motorist who perhaps looked at Paul Mashatile wrong, then they wouldn't be driving up a one way, the wrong way.So where are we on that?Rory Steyn (00:52:32 - 01:17:00)Well, I'm going to be Antoi du Pont and pass the ball to Ian Cameron, because he's probably far more qualified than I am. But what I can tell you is that those eight, Presidential Protection Unit protectors and that's my unit, were initially suspended and then they did appear in court. And I believe that the court case is still ongoing in.(01:17:04 - 01:44:44)So, action was taken there. What we read about in the media, the past week in Joburg is whenever he comes out of I think it's one of the residential estates in the Midrand waterfall area, and there's bumper to bumper traffic. They simply just block the intersection with the cops and push their way up the wrong side of the traffic, past all the citizens sitting there.01:44:49 - 01:48:26Now let me tell you all a story.01:48:30 - 02:17:41You know, Madiba didn't live in the official residence in Pretoria when he was our president, like every president before and does since he lived at home in Hamilton in his own personal house, because he had his four grandchildren, four grandsons living with him. Mandla was in at Wits and Ndaba was at high school, at Sacred Heart College, and Andile and Mbuso were running around in nappies when I served Madiba, and he wanted to live with him.02:17:41 - 02:48:36I mean, who would deny that he missed? He had completely missed his two daughters growing up while he was locked away on Robben Island and other prisons. So our job was to drive him up the M1 from Halton to the Union Buildings Alec, and we had our motorcade. I won't, discuss the tactics, but one of the things that happens is that we have, a vehicle out front to cause any potential risks.02:48:36 - 03:17:22Back to the motorcade coming. And the president's motorcade was behind our lead security vehicle. That was, the motorcade is commanded by my second in command. I don't command the motorcade because I'm in another vehicle, and there's lots of calls and stuff going on. So there's an oak in the right hand lane. And by the way, Capetonian, do you guys know why they have those white lines on highways?03:17:26 - 03:41:17You are the worst drivers in the country. Vuka nina man yasis like that and kept going isn't understand what is the right lane in the left lane or a middle lane and a right landing. Hopeless. Anyway, so there's this oak sitting there like a Capetonian on the M1 going north at about 90 K's an hour in the right lane, and the guys flashlights at him to say you need to move over, and he's just not paying attention.03:41:17 - 04:05:17I mean, it happens to all of us. So my two I see sitting in the front seat just just blips the siren, it just goes good. That's all. So the guy looks up and he moves over. Problem solved. We get to the Union Buildings where we got out of the car. That old man calls me , Rory y'all must respect motorists.04:05:17 - 04:31:21You cannot be pushing people off the road, I say, but he just. No, no, no, he has a right to be there. That's the difference. That's how far we've fallen. So the point is, as I said, the reason that those guys get away with that behavior is because the commanders are too scared and too compromised to merely implement what the law says, what the procedures say.04:31:25 - 04:51:18You can only use blue lights and sirens in an emergency. And being late is not an emergency.Alec HoggJust read that that opening sentence again. Just remind us that opening Rory Steynnever, never and never again shall it be that this beautiful land.04:51:22 - 04:59:23will again experience the oppression of one by another and suffer the indignity of being the skunk of the world.Alec Hogg 04:59:27 - 05:01:29Do you think we've got the.Rory Steyn 05:01:33 - 05:32:11I do think we've come a massively far away Alec, but I think that our leaders have so badly let us down. You know, I'm not a politician, but I say that this government and it's mainly the ruling party, and I don't know whether the East has got absolutely no credibility with me, because how can you go running and complaining to wherever they went, the human, the United Nations Security Council about.05:32:15 - 06:02:29An incursion into Venezuela to arrest a known and wanted narco criminal. So they run there and make a big song and dance to stole. About what Doctor Iraj spoke to us today going on in Iran. They murdered 50,000 of their citizens and this government said nothing. I have no respect for that. Sorry. It's probably worse. This government.Alec Hogg 06:02:33 - 06:09:13But silence condoned that act of action. Well, but silencing.06:09:17 - 06:29:18Comrades, marathon, I've got to ask you a little about that. Because you stepped up to the plate there. Why? You got a hell of a lot on your plate. There's lots going on in the in the Steyn household life. And yet you felt there was sufficient reason for you to get involved. And I'm not sure if everybody actually knows Rory's role.Rory Steyn 06:29:22 - 06:34:21Well, I thought I had a little bit more time than I.06:34:25 - 06:50:24Thought was required. Let me put it that way, so I don't. I told you, I mean, I we've got a 40 something year old CEO runs our business now. I'm still a shareholder, I'm still a director, and I still work every day. But I don't run. I'm not in the office at 8 a.m. and leaving at six. It's somebody else's problem now.06:50:28 - 07:09:47So I thought I do. I did have a little bit of time. A number of people asked me to throw my hat in the ring and stand for the election to the board of the comrades, because there were certain problems there, and I involved board members, manipulating or getting involved in certain tenders, going to their chommies and that sort of thing.07:09:47 - 07:41:29And I know that there are a lot of comrades, runners. Yeah. My mate hard sitting over there is one of them. And if you've run more than a few of those things, it becomes very, very dear to you. It's a national treasure, that race, you know, it was started. The reason it's called the Comrades Marathon Alec. Not many people know it was started by a World War One veteran coming back from the Great War, wishing to institute a challenge, physically demanding enough to honor the ultimate sacrifice made by his comrades in arms.07:41:33 - 08:07:02And that's why it's called that. And next year, when we celebrate our centenary, we are going to honor military veterans across the board, and we're going to have a formal wreath laying, proper military parade, laying a wreath lit an eternal flame to honor that as we go into the next 100 years. So, and I have to say that when so you know, I anyway, I was elected to the board.08:07:02 - 08:18:29We've got a fantastic board at the moment, really passionate people, and we are looking very forward to celebrating 100 years of this, what is known universally as the ultimate human race.Alec Hogg 08:18:33 - 08:22:18Now, it was quite interesting.08:22:22 - 08:42:02To have a look at what Ian and you have both said about the generals in the cups. And then we have a look at what Prince was saying about the cabinet. It's almost like these are really proper jobs for pals. Who's our cabinet? I don't know if it's the biggest in the world, but it certainly must be right up there.08:42:06 - 09:11:26And our generals per capita have got to be amongst the highest in the world. How does one address that? How does one reverse that malfeasance on taxpayers? Rory SteynWell, I think we got there slowly. So the answer is probably we need to undo it slowly so you can't just boot someone out. But Ian was talking about doing proper, due diligence or even lifestyle audits or whatever.09:11:26 - 09:30:16And I think we should start there. And I agree with him. You can't only start at the top, you probably need to start throughout the structure of the police. But be like Prince said it, he used the right word. We need to be merciless on these people. And again, I didn't get the chance to because I thought I had no time.09:30:20 - 09:54:28But when we talk about courageous and radical changes needed in our place, let's depoliticise them in the way that I said. But let's also do the following. Alec you know, in the United States, there's just a general law that if you drive past a school zone, the speed limit is half and the fines double. So you speed past a school in America, you're in a lot of trouble.09:54:32 - 10:05:39I think we need a law that says a cop convicted of a crime, irrespective of what it is. The punishment doubles, right? They said they just.Alec Hogg 10:05:43 - 10:33:19Tiana's got a question. He says you're right that we cannot continue with this current status quo. Therefore, I don't believe that simply putting more boots on the ground is the answer. New ideas and structures are needed should be looked at. Should provincial commissioners be empowered to establish special task teams consisting of SAPS, civil rights organisations and private security companies to tackle specific organised crime?10:33:19 - 10:59:18Almost like. And thank you, Tiana. That's a good question. Almost like during the riots where it was a crisis, everybody pitched in. Are we not in a crisis? Rory SteynYou know, we definitely in a crisis. But whenever I hear the word special task team, I start cringing because that normally means spend a lot of money and a lot of time wasting it and generating a report that nobody ever reads, and neither do they do anything about it.10:59:22 - 11:30:10We, and I do believe in the, the autonomy, the independence of a police commissioner or a police chief or a police commander. They should not be beholden to somebody that can, emasculate them. By all means, consult and consult widely. That's another thing that I learned from Madiba. You must talk and to base debate things robustly and hear every opinion and every view.11:30:14 - 11:59:11But when you decide on the course of action, then everybody involved in that debate buys into that, and it's everyone's decision. So I don't want to ever arrive or, publicly support a structure that takes away the autonomy of a of a police chief to do what he or she is called to do. And that is to fight crime and to defend our people, but certainly to listen to every voice and business as a voice.11:59:15 - 12:23:06The young people have a voice, civil society has a voice. Absolutely. Alec HoggThere are a lot of questions now. Rory, Sean W wants to know is there was a rise in kidnapings of businessmen and others in South Africa reported in the media, but we know it's it is a very real thing, especially up in Johannesburg. Do you have any information and advice on this issue?Rory Steyn 12:23:10 - 12:45:25Yes. A lot of our clients have been kidnaped and we've done a lot of, personal safety training as a result of this and for many, many years, I'm talking about, because, you know, my I've been running a security company for 27 years, although, as I said, I don't run it anymore, but you know what I mean.12:45:29 - 13:23:48And I could never understand why South African criminals were not doing what they were doing in Mexico and Colombia and other places in the world where they have these. They're called the Minute Maid kidnaping. So somebody in the bank would know what the balance is on your credit card, and they would either grab you or grab your daughter on the way to school, hold you up, take you to the ATM, drain that account and release her, or release you because it's a lot safer than walking into a bank with an AK 47 and attracting lead from our special task force, or from citizens that are, you know, legitimately armed.13:23:48 - 13:50:02And I could never understand this. And all of a sudden it was like I poked the bear. And about two and a half, three years ago, this plethora of initially started in the Eastern Cape, and it's still ongoing there. And, a lot of it is just underreported, like, like rape and other crimes that are underreported because people do not want to involve the police for whatever reason.13:50:03 - 14:15:12A host of reasons. But it's a very, very easy way to earn easy money. They hold you overnight, and as the clock ticks past 12, they take you again to the ATM and pull out the next day's daily allowance. Out of all of your cards in your wallet or your, on your Apple Wallet, or in Google Pay or whatever it is, they do that.14:15:16 - 14:47:09So the only way to not become a victim of that is to do some of the stuff that I was talking about, to become informed, to be aware of your personal security environment, to always let somebody know where you are and where you're going and what time you're going to be home, and to have some way of calling the cavalry, whether it's a panic button, whether it's a an app on your phone that you can hit or, you know, heaven forbid you find 10111 and somebody actually answers the phone and the cops come and help you.14:47:13 - 15:16:21It's not that they they don't every way, but it's hit and miss and you don't know. You can't definitively rely on that again because of all the reasons that Ian was talking about and that I was hinting at. But the information is key. And forewarning yourself, preparing your family, having a plan and playing the what if game, all of that stuff, is the way that you avoid it.15:16:21 - 15:40:11So we always say very briefly, we always say in, you know, when we train people, the first thing you need to do is avoid getting into a kidnaping or a hijacking situation. But if it does happen, you need to survive it. And then we do the training that teaches you how to survive that. And guys, your phone, your car, your your any of your property alive that also could give it to the criminals.15:40:11 - 16:06:16Don't put your life at risk for that stuff. Yeah. Alec HoggJames Caw wants to know, would you join Prince's initiative? Rory SteynI love Prince's, I would love to join it 100%. By the way, my wife thinks that I've got, a second lady in my life, and her name is Helen Zille. Because I can't stop talking about it, I think I believe she'll win Jo'burg at a landslide.16:06:20 - 16:29:07And I think that if there's anybody that can fix that plumbing place, it's probably. It's probably her. What was your question? Yeah. Alec HoggZille /Prince who you can go with. Which of the two would you would you join? Rory SteynNo, no, no, 100% Prince. I mean, Helen in Joburg, but the National Party in the national elections, I have to say, I.16:29:09 - 16:49:33And I told you you were there. I told Doctor Mulder that if I had to vote nationally, the party that represents my personal values, as Rob calls them, the Judeo-Christian values. I am a Christian, a Bible believing one. Then it's the Freedom Front plus. But there's a problem there with demographics. But that doesn't mean we don't support leaders like that.16:49:33 - 17:04:49I just wish that somebody would knock the kids together and get them into some kind of a coalition where they would support somebody else's candidate. If it means keeping out the the rest of the rebel. But is that.Alec Hogg 17:05:03 - 17:24:29Is the Da not supporting Judeo-Christian values? Rory SteynYeah. But they but to their but to liberal on the on the on the on the other side I'm I'm like center right not center left. So yeah. Okay. Sorry in that. Yeah. Yeah. So those of us who are center center center center, your center center is probably where I am. Yeah.17:24:29 - 17:54:13But, anyway, you know what I mean? Alec HoggI think that journalists should not be members of political parties either. Rory SteynJournalists? Just like policemen, that's all. Cool. I don't want to pay tax. Although my, my dad was a journalist. Alec. That's why I said to you that he couldn't afford to send me to university because there wasn't much money working for the the Daily Mail and then the, the, the citizen in Jo'burg and then the SABC when he retired.17:54:17 - 18:29:35But anyway, he was then he instilled in me a love of, of language and of of of, of, of good writing. So I'm very grateful to him for many of the things he served. He made a foundation, but he paid tax. Yeah, yeah. Alec HoggMichael's question is, given the accelerate the accelerating use of AI in security intelligence and geopolitical strategy globally, where do you see the most urgent priority opportunity for countries like South Africa to adopt AI to strengthen national security.Rory SteynIn intelligence18:29:39 - 19:02:14100%, the USA will win the war in the Straits of Hormuz or wherever there or in the in the Middle East because of their intelligence capacity. And we should be using intelligence in our in our police service and especially in our crime intelligence service because the criminals are, you know, indeed they are. Alec HoggSydney place is question what is the reason why forensic capacity in SAPs is so poor?00:19:02:18 - 19:31:11What will speed up laboratory analysis? Rory SteynSo first of all, I don't think it's that poor. I just think it's under and again Ian will will be me out. They are some brilliant people, some very dedicated scientists working their fingers to the bone, burning the midnight oil, trying to get this backlog out there. But it's such a certain narrative to block our forensic laboratories or any other, source of evidence for proceedings against certain people.19:31:11 - 19:52:32So I think we've got some very, very competent forensic people in our police. This is a police service. There's just not enough of them. And they are not distributed widely enough, Alec HoggLike those those dockets at the at the core. Yeah. It's simply going missing. Rory SteynI mean, how bad was it listening to that poor lady? I mean, my heart went out to that whistleblower, the colored lady.19:52:32 - 20:18:34She could name facts and figures exactly how she was victimized by priests, police commanders, and how the, detectives investigating that were carrying 40 dockets, 70 dockets per detective. How do you ever think we're going to get progress? The where you know, the the benchmarked model globally is you might have a team of 5 or 6 detectives working one case.20:18:46 - 20:46:40Now you're giving one detective 40 dockets. What do you expect? Yeah. Alec HoggPeter's question is how serious is kidnaping crime in South Africa? Who's their target market and what should we do about it if we fear it? Rory SteynWell, look, it's one of those things that if you take the old, matrix and you look at, impact, probability and impact, the probability is low for most of us in this room, but the impact is massive.20:46:44 - 21:19:25Your daughter or you get kidnaped, it's huge. But the probability is low because what they do criminals is they target the lowest hanging fruit, which are normally foreigners that own cash businesses. Alec HoggJust explain that a bit more. Rory SteynSo the Somali guy that's operating a business that's maybe a bit like a mini jumbo cash and carry supplies in bulk, and he sells it, but everybody that comes in and out of his store pays in cash.21:19:29 - 21:40:26And that oak is then got to go to the bank once a week or however, you know, regularly he does that. They knock him and because they know he's got cash someway. So they'll take the cash and they'll take him to his house and say, open the safe or wherever because they work in cash. These people don't believe necessarily in banks.21:40:30 - 21:46:38It's probably in a sofa or under a mattress or in a safe somewhere Alec HoggIn a sofa.Rory Steyn 21:46:42 - 22:10:08Euphemism Alec HoggAre they are these people legal or illegal immigrants? If they were illegal, you would imagine that they don't really have much recourse. Rory SteynI think there's a few of them that may be illegal, but most of them would be legal legally in the country. Legally running an honest business, trying to make a living, trying to feed their family, put their kids to school and the criminals target them.Alec Hogg 22:14:09 - 22:45:44What do you think about matriculants doing 24 months National service in SAPs or SANDF and then receiving a bursary to a college or university? Rory SteynSo I'm a massive believer in that. But not two years. I think 12 months is enough. And I think every school leaver, male and female should be doing some form of national service. I know that term National service has got a negative connotation because of when you and I had to go to the army.22:46:05 - 23:12:05But look at Israel, that happens in Israel. Everybody does it. So you've you to your question to to end about commandos and reservists. So you get a trained cadre of people, a generation that are trained. And I mean, we're all employees. We see it in our businesses. These youngsters, Gen X and Gen Z, they've got no plumbing stick ability, men, because they never went to boarding school or the Army and got a flippin size ten boot up your backside.23:12:05 - 23:38:34If you didn't listen to the corporal, we need that. Yeah. No. Alec HoggWere you the corporal giving the task? Rory SteynNo, I was I was very definitely getting it. Yeah. Alec HoggMartin Versfeld, view on reinstating the death penalty for the worst crimes murder, rape, etc.. Would this not help our prisons? Rory SteynWell, if you're asking me personally, that's why I wouldn't support the DA.23:38:34 - 24:04:38Because they're against the death penalty. I'm firmly for the death penalty. Yeah. Alec HoggIs the DA against the death penalty? Rory SteynI think so, they're liberal. Alec HoggDo the people who vote for them? Rory SteynNo, they're against it. Ask them. I'm telling you what I believe. Alec HoggYeah. Are they against the death penalty? Rory SteynPolicy wise, I don't think they support the death penalty.Alec Hogg 24:04:38 - 24:28:02Then the Western Cape is going to Gayton. Rory SteynAnd im very anti-woke again. Why I'm center right. Bugger that agenda and I don't want that. Yeah, yeah. Alec HoggBecause gayton is very much in favor of the death penalty. Rory SteynHe's my man. Yeah.Alec HoggAnd I saw you sucking up to Mulder over there.24:28:02 - 24:50:36Now, you talking to Prince? You love Helen Zille. Now Gayton is your man.Come on Rory.Rory SteynYou know why? I'll tell you why. Because I think I can count on one hand politicians who I trust. And she's one. Yeah, and I think Corne Mulder is another one. He's the longest serving parliamentarian in our country. That must say something about the men's integrity.24:50:40 - 25:15:16I don't trust politicians because I think, by and large, they serve themselves first. Yeah. Alec HoggExcept Ian .Rory SteynYeah except Ian.Ian is my man, I told you I rejoiced in him taking on Cele. Alec HoggIt's been such a pleasure talking with you, Rory. Thank you for, for sharing so much personally and and of your insights. And I look forward to having you back again.Rory Steyn 25:15:16 - 25:29:20No you're welcome. And can I just say that, Magnus or someone said, I don't know how you do it. And I told my he's my financial advisor sitting there. I've been supporting him for three years to come to this conference because you really.25:29:24 - 25:50:19Have this incredible knack of assembling this amazing list of speakers that you can sit for three days. Not many of us can do that in today's fast moving digital world. Instant everything. But you do. You pull this lot together and both the, the, the speakers and the content is excellent. And I just want to say thanks and commend you for that.25:50:19 - 25:51:16So thank you

BNC#8: Rory Steyn Q&A - Kidnappings rising, police under fire and leaders called out

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