"BEE pits black against white": The trailblazer who says empowerment got it wrong — Sam Montši

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Defying Barriers is the memoir of a man told by his own government to vanish — and who turned the threat into a business empire spanning two countries. In this interview with Irakli, businessman and author Sam Montši recounts how a 1987 order to "disappear" from military-ruled Lesotho drove him into apartheid South Africa, where he joined the mighty South African Breweries. There, he says, "I was the first Black general manager in the SAB Group at the time. And white people, sadly, were not used to having a Black person overseeing them. So some of them behaved in an unfortunate fashion, and I had to get rid of one of them." Montši explains the operating instinct behind a portfolio that broke barriers from fishing to shipbuilding — "a business needs to move, and move fast" — and reflects candidly on succession, recalling how his son Arif joined him: "Dad, I'm coming to work with you. I'm not coming to work for you. I'm not going to carry your briefcase." He reveres Nelson Mandela as a nation builder — "we were lucky to have him when we had him" — but delivers a stinging critique of Black Economic Empowerment, charging that it "has pitted the Black man against the white person, rather than getting them to work together," and that requiring white firms to take on Black partners is "in a sense, suggesting that Black people cannot create these things themselves." Montši also shares the leadership philosophy that carried him from a Soweto childhood to West African boardrooms: "for you to shine, you must make the people that work directly under you shine." He outlines in detail the journey of crossing boundaries others said could not be crossed — and what it means to now hand the family business to the next generation.

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Edited transcript of the interview

Irakli (00:02.062)

In 1987, a colonel in Lesotho's military government called Sam Montši into his office and gave him a one-word instruction. Disappear. He wasn't a politician, he wasn't an activist, he was a businessman — and a very good one — who had taken a state corporation that lived on government handouts and made it turn a profit. And that made him dangerous to the powerful men who ran Lesotho: an honest operator they couldn't buy.

So they decided to push him out. And he left with his wife and two small boys, but nowhere safe to go except apartheid South Africa. What happened next is the story of a man who got told he didn't belong by both of his countries, and built an empire anyway. His memoir is Defying Barriers. Sam Montši, welcome to the show.

Sam (00:56.3)

Well, thank you very much. I'm not sure about building an empire, but yes, I've built some businesses to sustain my family and to hand over to my children as my time ends on this earth, as it happens to all of us.

Irakli (01:15.566)

A modest man, and looking at your businesses over the years — when you started here in Cape Town, South Africa, you started at South African Breweries. 

Could you please elaborate what it felt like during that period, towards the end of the apartheid era, stepping in as a general manager and overseeing the team?

Sam (01:40.493)

Well, I mean, it was an opportunity for me to join the mighty South African Breweries. I don't know how much of the history of the company you know, but at the time it was really, I think, the largest group in this country, because breweries make money.

And at the time they could not invest the money outside South Africa. So any business that looked like it was a good business, they would buy. I remember the chairman of the group, Meyer Kahn, would from time to time say, you know, "Chaps, every South African, one way or the other, experiences our products, our services, etcetera, every day before he goes to bed." 

I was really very lucky to join that group. But at the same time, it was a difficult time. I mean, a time when the group had been identified as a target by the unions - some for good reasons, really, because they wanted to make a point to the authorities then that change needed to come to South Africa. 

So you now come into this environment as a Black person, who, like all Black people in South Africa, wanted the change to happen. I had the challenging task of trying to ensure that the business functions and succeeds while at the same time, you know, trying to get the business itself also to understand that they too had to behave in a certain fashion to accommodate the legitimate interests of the majority of the people of South Africa. 

The other additional point was that I was the first Black general manager in the SAB Group at the time. And white people, sadly, were not used to having a Black person overseeing them. So some of them behaved in an unfortunate fashion, and I had to get rid of one of them.

And he was a production manager. He had been with the group for 35 years. 

And really, I couldn't work with him because he would not — he was trying to undermine me. But I sort of managed in spite of those challenges. 

Sam (04:30.734)

And I'm proud to say that while there were strikes at various other breweries within the group up north, the business that I looked after — we hardly had any strikes that arose as a result of problems within the business that I ran, because I tried to work closely with the people, and I tried to make sure that we ran the business in a manner that accommodated the legitimate needs and interests of all staff.

Irakli (05:04.846)

And after that operating playbook — after the South African Breweries — you've built since then, first of its kind, Surmon Fishing, which broke into the Western Cape fishing sector at the height of apartheid. Nyanga Junction, the first shopping centre on a township railway station. Damen Shipyards Cape Town, a steel-hull shipbuilding JV with the global Dutch group. Montši Properties, to name a few. And a granite quarry in Ghana.

Sam (05:34.893)

Yeah.

Irakli (05:35.722)

In the book, you talk about how businesses can't be run by a committee. There's this need to act first and act fast. Could you please elaborate?

Sam (05:47.948)

Well, what I'm — yeah, I mean, the reality is that a business needs to move, and move fast. I mean, when there's a good idea or a good opportunity that you identify, if you have to consult all manner of people and groups, by the time you come back and try to act, somebody else has taken advantage of that idea. Or developments have happened that then, you know,

cause difficulties for you to implement the idea, however good it might be. So, yeah, I believe that as a manager in a business, or as an owner, you have to move fast. But of course, you have to, I think, be authentic, be honest. You shouldn't put forward things that don't make sense from the business viewpoint, or that are so selfish and irresponsible that they cause problems for other people.

Irakli (07:00.91)

And on selfishness — one of the fascinating aspects in your book is around the theme of succession. You have four children; three of them are very involved. One, Arif, who is your son, has been part of the business for a while, where he spent seven years building the Ghana business by himself. And you mention in the book that this is the best MBA he could have done. 

That tension of your personality and control and decisiveness and that instinct that helped you build that business. And now, at this stage of your life, softening, as your children have put it, and stepping back, and that art of letting go. 

How have you managed this process of succession, as well, with your two boys, Sefale and Tšepo, who I believe are executive directors?

Sam (07:54.689)

It was challenging. And in a sense, I've really been very lucky. But I've tried, even when they were young, to get them involved in the business. I mean, for instance, to see some of the activities in the business and carry some responsibility for some of the things that had to be done in the business. 

We had, as you pointed out earlier, an efficient business, trawling for hake in the deep seas off South Africa. Most of that hake would be exported, mainly to Portugal and Spain, but the bycatch, as they call it, would then be sold locally. 

And small traders would come around at the port when the ship docks, to buy the fish. And of course, they buy cash. I'd ensure that when the kids were not at school, or when it was a weekend, they would be with me there collecting the cash. And then we'd bring it to a house here in Bishopscourt. 

And then, on a certain date, we'd arrange banking. They would then be responsible for counting the money and filling in the banking form, so that they get exposed to the business. I'm saying, it was like with Arif — he's a very interesting fellow. When he joined me, he said, "Dad, I'm coming to work with you. I'm not coming to work for you. I'm not going to carry your briefcase." I said — and then I shipped him off to Ghana,

Sam (09:47.214)

where we had this granite quarry that was a bit troubled. We live in Bishopscourt. We have another house in Camps Bay — fancy little places, even if I do say so myself. So where he was in Ghana is a place called Takoradi. It's about four, five hours away from Accra. And, not really — at that time, not so salubrious an environment. 

I had expected that he'd call in two or three weeks' time and say, "Dad, I can't live in this hole of a place." But he stayed there. And there were, I think, about seven or eight other quarries competing for business in that area, and they were all competing on price. 

And somehow, this young man was able to get all the quarry owners together,for them to begin to work together to ensure that they were not ripped off by some of the clients. And they made him the secretary of that — they call it the Quarry Owners Association. I call it the cartel. So Arif was very lucky. 

Sam (11:16.717)

But when he finally came back, it was not too difficult, really, to hand over things to him. I still have to come in and guide him and support him. He also has a tendency of calling me when senior people have to be fired, so I act as the hatchet man.

Irakli (11:37.272)

Make the hard decisions, yes.

Sam (11:39.745)

Yeah, that decision. But no, I've really been very lucky, and I thank the Lord for that. Yes.

Irakli (11:48.686)

I mean, early on, you talked about selfishness and pushing against that, and creating a culture where there is support and care. I'd like to talk about your worldview, and specifically, in your book you mention how you revere Mandela and the hope that came after 1994, and how you're cautiously optimistic aboutthe Government of National Unity. But you also scathed tenderpreneurs who have hijacked BEE. Could you please elaborate on that?

Sam (12:29.524)

Well, I have a view, really, on how we have implemented Black Economic Empowerment. And really, I have benefited somehow from it. But I think the way it has been implemented, in my view, has been a little unfortunate. I mean, on the one hand, it has pitted the Black man against the white person, rather than getting them to work together. And that sows divisions rather than, you know, bringing them together. Secondly, I think it has, in a sense, perpetuated some of the unfortunate policies of the apartheid era, where they said to somebody like me — whether you're a doctor or you're a lawyer — there are certain things you can do purely because you're Black.

And I'm saying that because the approach of BEE says that white businesses must have Black partners for them to access business in government and state-owned entities. In a sense, suggesting that Black people cannot create these things themselves. That they have to come in with a white person for them to then participate in the economy. And yeah, it's unfortunate in that sense. And I think it could have been done differently. I think if — I mean, Madiba, really, we were lucky to have him when we had him, because he was a nation builder. He brought people together, and really encouraged people to work together, rather than forcing them in a manner that creates divisions rather than bringing them together. Again, looking at BEE — in Kenya, for instance, a gentleman that I knew many years ago, Kenneth Matiba, who's now late, who was the chairman of the East African Breweries at one point, and he became Minister of Commerce and Industry there, and he had aspirations to be president. He was telling me about how they approached bringing Kenyans into business. I mean, what they did is identify people with experience and aptitude in certain activities in business. And they then facilitated them. They encouraged them to set up on their own. They facilitated finance for them. They assisted them to access markets.

For instance, some people that had been workers on rose farms were encouraged to set up their own rose farming for export to Europe. Some of them, of course, chose their white compatriots in Kenya as their partners, but they brought them in as partners. And there was nobody forcing anybody to do anything.

And some of them established thriving businesses. Even today, they're still thriving. But it was a constructive, positive approach, rather than a forced — in my view — approach that creates divisions rather than bringing people together.

Irakli (16:12.13)

King Letsie III, on your birthday, mentioned that your service to Lesotho remains vivid in the memories of the people. Looking back at your legacy, what do you believe you would like to be remembered for — your impact on society and business and the people that you've served?

Sam (16:43.564)

It's really — you know, I've tried in my small way to make a difference. I've tried, honestly, to make things happen. And I also learned, especially when I was at the Development Corporation, that for you to shine, you must make the people that work directly under you shine. You must train them, facilitate them. And it's really as they shine that you then shine. So I try to work with people in that spirit, and I find that it brings success.

Irakli (17:38.094)

Thank you for joining us. Defying Barriers is out now. Thank you.

Sam (17:42.977)

Well, thank you very much. Really, I appreciate the opportunity to talk to you. Thank you.