In his latest interview with Chris Steyn, political commentator Solly Moeng reveals that many “hardcore” ANC members - even ones who have been MPs - voted for ActionSA and the DA in secret so as not to lose their positions or businesses. He says those people now want a coalition between the Action SA and the DA. “So please, political party leaders, forget your personal grudges. Think about why people came to you and not elsewhere. Now, if you take their vote and you decide I'm going to cushion the ANC because I hate the other guys, that's disrespectful...” Moeng also dissects the bombs being dropped at the Madlanga Commission by tenderpreneur Cat Matlala about former Police Minister Bheki Cele, former Deputy National Commissioner Shadrack Sibiya, special leave Police Minister Senzo Mchunu, as well as the President Cyril Ramaphosa’s nephew by marriage, Tembisa tender don Hangwani Morgan Maumela. “There's a lot of accountability that is still not on the table because people have protection at the highest level and the president is not able to speak from a moral high ground about anything because they can also point fingers at him.” Moeng also comments on an alleged plot by IDAC to target whistle-blower General Nhlanhla Mkhwanazi..Listen here.Edited transcript of the interview.Chris Steyn (00:01.368)Cell phone lines have been buzzing with coalition conversations. And somebody who's been getting many, many calls is political commentator Solly Moeng. Welcome back, Solly.Solly Moeng (00:13.83)Hi Chris, nice to see you again.Chris Steyn (00:15.886)I know. I'm not keeping your rant for the end of this interview. Start now.Solly Moeng (00:22.556)Chris. You know, long before the elections, I was already receiving calls from people in the Johannesburg area, in the middle class, like black middle class people, some of whom have been MPs for the ANC, are members of the ANC, they are quietly working professionals in Johannesburg. They are the kind of people who do not go to political rallies. They don't wear political party t-shirts and show up and down at, you know, gatherings, but they have views, have fears, they have aspirations and they know exactly what they want. Political parties tend to, I regard these people as middle, the missing middle if you want in our politics because of course politics is a numbers game, we all know that. So they go for the people who go to rallies, who are fed, who jump up and down the stages, the poor, the struggling…of course that is important but it's also important to realise that there are people who are smart, who are fearful, are analysing these things, as I said, who don't wear t-shirts, but who also voted. And a lot of these people came to me and said, Solly, we don't want to wait for the ANC. Many of them are ANC people. They're not going to put it on social media. They're not going to make a lot of noise about it because they have material losses if you want for that, could lose positions and so on. But they said, Solly, do we vote for the DA or do we vote for Action SA?" Okay. And I kid you not, a lot of these people voted for Action ASA and for the DA.Obviously we've seen how the DA has done. They're not going to make notes. It's important now for these political parties who come up now and think that everybody who voted for them are the people who wear t-shirts, who would sing with them in colourful regalia. They are wrong. Those are not the only people who voted for them. And I think it's important that these parties, especially Action SA. and the DA humble themselves. They don't own Soweto or Johannesburg or Ekurhuleno or Johannesburg. They don't own. They have been given trust…Solly Moeng (02:22.836)…by people, not only the poor, struggling people, but also the middle class people, who said, we want change. It's not about whether we love this one or we hate this one. We just want something different to be done by our cities, for our cities, for our municipalities. And I think that these political parties must remember that the trust that has been given to them will only last for a political season. It's not forever. Especially Herman Mashaba of Action SA… we'll remember that the last time he was accused of siding with the ANC, people were really angry at him. Even some of the ANC's funders were really, really angry. A lot of white, especially middle class people, even black, I've got friends in Joburg who said we voted for these guys because we didn't want the ANC. Now, if they don't listen carefully to why people voted for them, they're going to end up wondering why people don't vote for them again next time.So please, political party leaders, forget your personal grudges. Think about why people came to you and not elsewhere. Work together. This is for South Africa.. This is not for you as individuals. And remember, not everybody, and I'm saying it for the last time, not everybody who voted for you came to your rallies singing and dancing or up and down and making noise on social media. They don't do that. Many of these people, but they exist. They've got fears, they've got aspirations, they've got wishes, and they know what kind of places they want. Because they also have much to lose. They could lose their bonds, they could lose the ability to pay for studies for their kids, they could lose their small businesses. They are people who matter. The fact that they are not making noise on social media and elsewhere does not mean they do not exist and they do not have views.Chris Steyn (04:10.242)How will they feel if Action SA does not go into a coalition with the DA?Solly Moeng (04:17.69)They already feel something. It's absolutely amazing. Also humbling. Do you know how many people call me? People I don't know. Some of them I see their names in the media, on social media. And these people are calling me to say, please, you're close to Mashaba. Please speak to Mashaba. I laugh at it, but I'm not. But I take it seriously because they would not call me if they didn't think I have access to Mashaba. So they are watching the space. They do not want the ANC, they really do not want the ANC. I mean, look, if people wanted the ANC, they would have voted for the ANC in big numbers. They did not. Now, if you take their vote, because now they have no, they no longer have the power, the votes are in your hands, and you decide, you know what, I'm going to cushion the ANC because I hate the other guys. That's disrespectful. Even I take it very seriously. It's very disrespectful. Okay. People said, we trust you. We don't want these other guys. Now, if you're going to cushion these guys ahead of the 2029 elections, because of your personal vendetta, it's not cool. It's not cool at all because South Africa needs to be saved. South Africa cannot change, cannot improve…everything that we've seen going wrong in South Africa, it's because of ANC protection. It's because of ANC influence into administrative processes in municipalities, in government, in many places. This is not out of hatred for the ANC. It's for love for South Africa. Okay, the fact is the ANC has, it's been 32 years, 34 years, soon. They keep making beautiful speeches, they keep making beautiful promises, they keep looking at themselves and they pretend they've seen where they've gone wrong, they're going to change, but it never changes. The best way for South Africa to heal is for the ANC to be relegated to opposition benches. They need to walk their political wilderness in order to say, you know what, yeah, let's learn. Because right now, they are still there, while they still think that they can use one of these parties out of maybe racial…Solly Moeng (06:47.11)…it cushions the ANC, gives it an opportunity to succeed into the 2029 elections; then we end up with another president of the ANC. The ANC needs to be out of power in order for South Africa to stand a chance to win, to recover for all of its people, not just for the poor, not just for the wealthy, of course, not for the white, for the black, for the colour, everybody. We do not have a choice as South Africa, but to build this country together. And the ANC is not getting that message. The ANC is good at making speeches. They're really good. They've been at this game for many years, but we're tired of speeches. And South Africans have shown that they are tired of speeches. They want evidence. And the evidence can only come in terms of delivery, in terms of real changes, but the changes must also be institutional. Okay, there is a lot of work to be done to reduce powers in the president. I've said this, you know, that I keep saying this now. It's not about changing this face to the other, replacing this face with the other face. It's to make sure that nobody goes into any position of power at local level, at provincial level, or at national level and gets to do to this country and its institutions what has been done to them over the past 32 years. And that cannot rely only on changing names and faces. It relies on people going into the system to say… how do we strengthen the checks and balances in the system, how do we take away the powers from one man making any decision that affects everybody, make sure that we get to a point where country at all levels, works for all South Africans, how do we get to a point where we can start having healthy conversations about taking away race-based policies and taking care of every South African child. We're not going to do that while people still throw old era archaic views and policies and ideologies that no now fits the modern era.Chris Steyn (08:40.076)Meanwhile many cats are being let out of the bag at the Madlanga Commission of Inquiry by Tenderpreneur Cat Madlala. Where would you like to start? Former Police Minister Bheki Cele? Seven hundred thousand rand in a Woolies bag, another three hundred thousand rand, or former Deputy National Commissioner Shadrack Sibiya, five hundred thousand for a child's wedding, and so…It goes on. Solly Moeng (09:10.092)And so on. Look, look at Matlala, he's almost every day struggling to decide whom he's going to throw under the bus and whom he's going to protect, right? Yesterday, he was struggling to decide whether he was protecting Mchunu and throwing Cele under the bus. Right. So, where you asked, for instance, look at the story of Impalas. When he went to the Parliamentary Committee, he kind of said, that's a rumour, it didn't happen, right? Now it's okay, they happened, the impalas were delivered, they were delivered, but I didn't know that they were going to be delivered to Sibiya. And I didn't know, he didn't really directly ask me to deliver the impalas to him, okay? And then Sibiya suddenly has been threatening me through my wife, blackmail, and telling me not to throw him under the bus.You can see that he's doing everything he can to protect Mchunu, but the evidence is going one way and his testimony is going different ways. Even his own statement is going one way, his testimony is going a different direction. Of course, IDAC messed up by losing its credibility, if you want. So suddenly the investigators from IDAC are the ones who are being blamed for having inserted stuff into his statement. That is not what he agrees with, doesn't make sense because he signed this thing. This is a statement that he will continue to throw these people under the bus, right? Of course, he thinks it shouldn't have gone into public had things gone the way they had been planned of course. But now it's here, questions are being asked on the basis of that statement. No commitment was made. The Madlanga investigators have made it clear that they have never promised not to talk about that stuff. They've tried and we've seen his lawyer, Van den Heever, throwing a tantrum 10-times the other day and being pulled back. And suddenly it was all about what did you study at law school? What were you taught you can say you cannot say?Solly Moeng (11:25.694)What posture do you take when your client is testifying? Do you interject? On what basis? How? I mean, it's like a zoo. But all this is entertainment. It's like a soap opera. In the end, South Africans want the truth. We want to know what is going on, what is going on. This dude is not, he's not a credible witness. By all intents and purposes. Of course, in the end, the truth will either save him or not save him. But he doesn't strike me as a credible witness. It's really almost like trying to dodge obstacles as it goes along.Chris Steyn (12:00.303)Regardless, IDAC is coming out of it worse and worse, seemingly targeting General Nhlanhla Mkhwanazi by wanting to arrest Police Commissioner Fannie Masemola and Crime Intelligence Chief General Dumisani Khumalo to strip away General Mkhwanazi's support so that they could get at him.Solly Moeng (12:27.472)Yeah, look, everything that has come out in terms of Feroz Khan. Where is Feroz Khan? What happened? And Johnson, I think, has thrown the credibility of IDAC out…which is really, really sad. So it's credible. It's possible that they were on the journey trajectory to do what you've just described. But that evidence must be brought forward. I think in the end, we shouldn't just be about commission of inquiries, collecting evidence, trying to find out what really happened. There must be prosecutions. These people have to be brought forward. I mean, they've betrayed the highest level of trust that we can give to anybody to manage a key institution in the criminal justice system of South Africa. So there's got to be criminal charges. They have to be brought forward, not in a commission where we are, yes, that's true, not true, what happened. There have to be prosecutions. They have to end up in jail. All of these people precisely because of the positions they occupy and precisely because of their criminal behaviour, alleged criminal behaviour if you want, we end up with a witness like Matlala who is now able to use their lack of credibility to justify his own actions or to dodge accountability in his own way. This is not on.Chris Steyn (13:53.635)Also that Special Leave Minister Senzo Mchuny allegedly wanted former Crime Intelligence Deputy Chief Feroz Khan as the next head of CI.Solly Moeng (14:06.546)Yeah, yeah, I look at the bigger narrative points in that direction. It seems like the groupings, some were with him, some were not with him, allegations of course, all of these are still allegations to be tested. But I think the broader narrative points in the direction of those, Balkanisation, if you want, of loyalty. And South Africa finds herself standing in the middle, unprotected because the people who were appointed to protect it are playing their own games to suit their own interests. I think Cyril Ramaphosa should remove Mchunu. He's costing South Africa a lot of money. He has no credibility. I have no idea why he is keeping him there. In a normal course of events, he would have fired him. This is a position where you need to be trusted 100%. Okay, step aside and maybe one day if your name is cleared, you'll get another position as something like an ambassador…That's not going to happen… There's no doubt about it. people, the actions like this of defending people who are not defensible, who cannot be defended, should stop. Yeah, I'm really upset at the ANC. I'm really upset because it has disrespected South Africa. It has disrespected the historic mandate it has been given, and has disrespected the people of South Africa. It has treated us like children and it continues to do so. There's still a lot of accountability that is still not on the table because people have protection at the highest level and the president is not able to speak with a moral or from a moral high ground at anything because they can also point fingers at him. I had one senior leader say, yeah, but we deployed him into the business. He didn't start anything, we deployed him, or he knows how we opened doors for him to have the wealth that he has. So when you lead a country like South Africa or anything, and you are not able to speak for a moral high ground, you cannot lead. If you're too desperate to be loved, you cannot lead. And I said, you know, I can find for you an article I wrote at the early stages, before he became president. I said, this fellow, he runs a political party where the enemies…Solly Moeng (16:36.186)…are not from outside. His enemies, his destructors will not come from outside. They are not ordinary South Africans. His destructors will come from the ANC. I was insulted when I said these things, when people were describing him as the last hope for South Africa.. Look at where we are.Chris Steyn (16:52.824)Talking about the president, his nephew by marriage, the elusive Hangwani Morgan Maumela, his Ferrari has been auctioned off, but still no sight of him.Solly Moeng (17:04.882)Yeah, no arrests, nothing. The court did say it should be sold for less than 9.5. I think it was estimated or evaluated at around just over 10 million Rand. It's going to be preserved, of course. This man has not been arrested. He has been shown to be related to the president. But we forget that it's not just about returning money that was stolen, say, at Tempisa Hospital into the public place. It's also about all these whistle-blowers who were killed. Babita Deokaran is one of them. But there are several others. We have a whole string of whistle-blowers who were killed. Good South African men and women who dared to stand in the path of criminality of evil, we're destroyed. We must never forget that. We must never forget that the families of these people are still waiting for justice…. It doesn't make sense to say, okay, we're going to take my Hungwani Maumela’s cars because they seem to be proceeds of crime. But what about him? Is there a docket? Has he been charged? Has he been called? The Madlanga Commission is not calling him. They are tjoepstil about Maumela. I'm disappointed. …What is going on? Why do people fear this man? It doesn't make sense. A commission that is said to be credible, okay, that the whole country is looking at as if it's going to solve all of South Africans’ problems is quiet on this man. His name has been mentioned. It's come up. They cannot not call him. They're not calling him. They're not saying anything about calling him. It's not calling him. What is going on? South African must stop being fooled like this by these people. We must stop being taken for a ride because they give us little peanuts so that we don't look at the bigger things that must happen that are not happening.Chris Steyn (19:18.232)Hmm. What about all the patients who died because they couldn't get proper care at Thembisa? There's blood on his hands. It's literallySolly Moeng (19:24.7)Yeah, yeah There are stories of people who could not get medication because the money was not there. So this is where ordinary South Africans have been hurt. Now we're looking at big names being paraded here and there, but nothing is really happening. We are being made to believe something is happening. But we forget the ordinary men and women who pay the price. And there was a story of a man who died after being hospitalised there because there was no medication, Because the funds were given to Maumela allegedly and others who bought themselves lavish properties. I mean, who does that? Lavish properties, lots of cars. I think, you know, Chris, something that must happen also. There is a pattern. These criminals always take hundreds of millions of Rands. I mean, two billion was essentially taken from the hospital in Tembisa. And they hide these funds in Trojan horse properties, in properties, in cars, now in impalas, God maybe knows in, what's that big animal that Ramaphosa likes?Chris Steyn (20:41.408)Buffaloes.Solly Moeng (20:43.26)Buffalos. Who knows? So maybe the investigators, I mean real investigators, not people who are to come and play chicken and mouse tricks with us, they must go into finding out who owns these hotels, who owns these properties, who owns this, who owns it, because that's where the money is hidden. So they park the money there and one day they come up and sell it at their own leisure to continue benefiting from the proceeds of crime. It's the same with drug lords. I mean, we like to go to all these fancy beach lodges and hospitality places where the money is hidden from drug trafficking. And then we complain about what the drug traffickers are doing in the townships in the poor areas. So, look at the children being given guns, around selling drugs. But then we spend our hard-earned salaries at the places where the money is being laundered. We, South Africans, so many times, inadvertently or not, we feed the beast that is our country. We need to stop. We need to ask ourselves, what am I doing? Am I buying stolen property? If I'm buying stolen property, was somebody killed, hurt, you know… so that the property can get to the hands of the person who's selling it to me? We need to stop ourselves, because each one of us has a role to play in healing the country.Chris Steyn (22:14.254)Indeed. Thank you. That was political commentator Solly Moeng speaking to BizNews. I'm Chris Steyn. Thank you, SollySolly Moeng (22:23.026)It's a pleasure Chris..Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox every morning on weekdays. Register here.Support South Africa's bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here.If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here.