Listen here.In their latest interview, Chris Steyn and Ian Cameron, the Chairperson of Parliament's Portfolio Committee on Police, unpack a day of high drama with the court appearance this afternoon of suspended Deputy National Commissioner General Shadrack Sibiya who is now facing charges of rape, sexual grooming, and human trafficking. The cases involve the alleged rape of an 18-year-old girl and the alleged sexual grooming of a 16-year-old girl. Until his suspension over alleged criminal underworld links, the general was part of a cabal whose agenda was to have him as the next National Commissioner of Police. He was arrested at a strip club yesterday and is set to move from the police station to prison until his bail hearing because of an alleged escape plot. Also in court today was National Commissioner Fannie Masemola, who had charges against him withdrawn. Those related to alleged knowledge of a tender. He says he is ready to return to work. .Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox every morning on weekdays. Register here.Support South Africa's bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here.If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here..Edited transcript of the interview.Chris Steyn (00:01.048)Suspended Deputy National Commissioner General Shadrack Sibiya is facing charges of rape and sexual grooming. He appeared in court today and remains in custody. With me is Ian Cameron, the chairperson of Parliament's Portfolio Committee on Police. Welcome, Ian.Ian (00:21.716)Thank you Chris.Chris Steyn (00:23.81)What can you tell us about the cases against him?Ian (00:27.572)So there's still a lot of speculation around it. What we've understood from what the police and partly the NPA have shared is that there are also actually charges of trafficking in persons or human trafficking included. Up until an hour or so ago, a few hours ago, we obviously couldn't name the individual, as you've correctly identified as Lieutenant General Shadrack Sibiya. The arrest was made yesterday, so that wasMonday, the 21st, and he was arrested at an adult venue, for lack of a better description, where he was then taken into custody by the Commission Recommendation Task Team, which is basically the task team doing Madlanga Commission related work. At that stage, and from what we heard today, it's specifically regarding the alleged rape of an 18 year old girl and then also the alleged sexual grooming of a 16 year old girl. So that is basically what we know for now. He obviously remains in custody. There was also speculation about attempts or plans to escape. What exactly that entails I don't know. So I know there was also a push for him to be moved to Kgosi Mampuru Correctional Centre for further detaining, obviously as this process unfolds.Chris Steyn (02:07.253)Ian, let's remind the viewers why he was suspended.Ian (02:11.897)So Shadrack Sibiya has got no shortage of controversy over the past 20 years in the South African Police Service. He was previously suspended in a, I almost want to call it a different chapter of his policing career. He worked in the private sector for a while as well. And then as we know, during both Parliament's Ad Hoc Committee process and the Madlanga commission, he has been implicated throughout with regards to contact and suppose it favours by the, as people like to call him, the so-called businessman, Cat Matlala, in my opinion, just purely a criminal, and being involved with him, receiving gifts amongst other things, some game or free antelope amongst other things, and so the list goes on. There were allegations of financial contributions, et cetera…I think the long and the short of it is that apart from influencing and potentially interfering in criminal investigation matters, there are many other things that seem controversial about him. And as we all know, and you and I have spoken about it before, the so-called conspiracy theory at one stage was actually that he had his sights on becoming the national commissioner. The idea at that stage was allegedly that Feroz Khan would either become deputy national commissioner in control of crime intelligence or just divisional commissioner of crime intelligence. So that agenda was being driven very hard. Sibiya is also the one that took away or drove so hard to get rid of the Political Killings Task Team, the PKTT, and was definitely pushing very, very hard to gain control over the process of disbanding the Political Killings Task Team.Chris Steyn (04:13.45)And it's chilling to think that this man could have become the national commissioner of police in South Africa. Chilling.Ian (04:21.043)It is absolutely chilling and you know, without naming names, I sent two or three messages to senior people in the South African Police Service last night, just after I heard about the arrest. And I said to them that if you asked me three years ago, that I think, and I'm not speaking about the arrest now because everyone is innocent until proven guilty and we have to make sure that due process and the rule of law remains firmly intact. But if you look at the other allegations and so many horrific things and persons that he was...If you look at a lot of the other allegations and so many other things that he was implicated in or involved with, it is a very, very scary thought. And I said to them that if you had asked me a few years ago, I wouldn't have thought that it were possible for him specifically to be involved in that way. And the more things unfolded over the past year or two, it started becoming very, very clear that something is wrong with regards to that specific Deputy National Commissioner's Office.Chris Steyn (05:36.608)In certain circles, it was an open secret that he was the very godfather of organised crime in Tshwane.Ian (05:45.448)Yeah, you know up until now a lot of people still speak about that he left Telkom back in the day when he still worked there under a very very dark cloud and you know, I found out after his appearance at the Ad Hoc Committee that even then it was, you know, he conveniently didn't mention his poor stint and the dark cloud at Telkom and and so we can go through the list. There's no doubt…And if you listen to the likes of a Cat Matlala and so on that he was/is very very well connected with the underworld and just the mere fact of having the type of relationship with someone like Matlala is enough reason to question integrity. Cat Matlala is not someone with integrity. It's that simple. It's the same with someone like General Feroz Khan and I think their skeletons are starting to catch up with them. The funny part of it all is this little cabal is usually the first ones that threaten you with legal action as Khan did with me previously. And now I think the chickens are coming home to roost. I've got no doubt that with this arrest and court appearance of Sibita they will use the opportunity to further investigate other matters of potential involvement too.Chris Steyn (07:18.646)Ian, somebody else who was in court today, was National Commissioner Fannie Masemola, but to have charges against him withdrawn and those related to knowledge of or alleged knowledge of a tender. He says he's keen to get back to work. I think there's a lot for him to do.Ian (07:36.254)Yeah, you know, I've said it to you before, I think General Masemola is a gentleman. He's someone that is very easy to work with. I was one of the people that said he should be suspended until it is very clear that he's not involved and it's purely for the protection of the integrity of such an investigation. But with that comes a very, very difficult time of scrutiny, etc. So I think he's been through a very humiliating time period and it'll be interesting to see how the President approaches this. The President is the one that needs to say you can come back, your suspension or whatever they want to call it, preliminary suspension has been lifted. But from our side, whether he comes back in the same capacity or not, we look forward to continuing working together.Chris Steyn (08:37.058)It must have been very hard for him to find himself in the dock while Sibiya was not. So there must have been a sense of poetic justice today when the charges against him were withdrawn on the same day that Sibiya was hauled into court.Ian (08:52.475)It's extremely difficult, but one thing I can tell you, and this is something General Masemola told me a long time ago, it was before after a portfolio committee meeting, and he made a comment, something but jokingly saying, you know, we're ready to be grilled by the committee, something like that. And my answer to, or the comment that he made later on was that these types of things, unfortunately, come with the territory..And in a South African context, it is such a difficult environment to navigate, especially in the policing space at the moment, that it really is controversial. And the chances of you working in that environment unscathed, and I don't just speak of potential physical risk, I'm speaking more of, you know, just the smear campaigns and everything, is very, very difficult.So, I'm glad, I'm happy for him that it happened in the way that it did today. And I think it, as you say, in a way vindicates him the fact that it's on the same day that Sibiya appeared in court.Chris Steyn (10:08.96)Indeed, thank you. That was Ian Cameron speaking to BizNews. I'm Chris Steyn.Ian (10:16.254)There we go. Thank you Chris.