Chris Steyn (00:01.282)

Ian Cameron, the chairperson of Parliament's Portfolio Committee on Police, is fighting many battles to try and improve working conditions for good cops. He's with me now. Welcome, Ian.

Ian (00:14.159)

Good morning, thank you Chris.

Chris Steyn (00:16.182)

Ian, before we go into the litany of horrific working conditions, you have a horror story to tell about the treatment of an arson detection dog.

Ian (00:28.867)

Yeah, Chris, so it's a very sad story. I think one maybe I should say before I start telling the story. I'll share the pictures and everything with you. Luckily the dog is still alive, but this speaks to an institution, an entire institution that clearly is not to be trusted with animals and certainly not police dogs.

So the story is about a dog called Sky. Sky is a Belgian Shepherd. She served for just a few years. She's five years old now. She served for just a few years as an arson-detection dog. And unfortunately, she suffers from severe anxiety and especially kennel stress.

Now, just to give you an idea, arson-detection dogs, which is the discipline that Sky worked in, are dogs that help investigators to determine how fires were started, where they were started. And they actually play an incredible, incredible role in these types of crimes and investigations and they are very rare. We have a significant shortage of dogs throughout South Africa and arson-detection dogs especially are extremely rare and we certainly don't have enough of them.

Now in Sky's story what makes me so upset about it is the management of the Roodeplaat facility of the South African Police…

Ian (02:11.74)

…Service in Pretoria was warned several times that keeping Sky continuously confined created a serious risk for her to injure herself or worse.

And I think the funny thing Chris is about April, myself and colleagues… actually did an unannounced visit to the facility and Sky was already there at that time. She had been sent there in March of this year and already then they said she really struggles with kennel stress and she's just a lovely animal…she's very friendly and everything when we interacted with her.

And sadly yesterday morning Sky was found extremely badly injured at the SAPS veterinary hospital at Roodeplaat. Her left leg was caught in the kennel gate and she seems to have sustained multiple fractures including an open fracture. In fact in one of the photos you can literally see the bone sticking out. Severe cuts to her and the rest of her legs and extensive bleeding.

I wish we could share more of the photos and everything, but it's so gruesome. You can't imagine that an animal could injure themselves so badly in there. She was then transported to the Onderstepoort facility for emergency treatment. Onderstepoort is the campus where vets are trained and also the State Veterinarian is there. And her condition is serious.

Ian (04:04.176)

The reason why I'm constantly going on about this is we need to start asking whether SAPS can be trusted to run an animal hospital. I mean, that supposed hospital, even when we were there, closed their doors at four. The injuries that Sky sustained are not injuries that happened in a few minutes. It's physically impossible that that could have happened. So no one clearly checked on her. No one put in the effort to go and check up if she's okay through the night, etc. When you look at those pictures you realise that this animal had to be in distress for quite some time.

The long and the short of it is today we've laid criminal complaints against the relevant persons at the Roodeplaatt facility. I will personally see to it that those cases are followed up and I've laid those criminal cases. I've written to the South African Veterinary Council as well as the SPCA and I've spoken to the head of the special projects unit of the SPCA to also investigate the matter and they would also formally need to give the relevant feedback. So I can go on for a while. The long and the short of it is that I don't think these people should be trusted with animals anymore.

Chris Steyn (05:26.13)

And onto the treatment of dedicated police officers who want to do their jobs. Apparently some Organised Crime units in the Western Cape do not have a single vehicle.

Ian (05:39.547)

Yeah, so very interesting that a few months ago, about three months ago, we started with an oversight process to follow up on why Organised Crime don't have vehicles. Now, it's important to say that it's a very small unit for the province. They've got different, let's call them officers in the province. And already then they had significant vehicle shortages and capacity issues. And despite following up, nothing was done to remedy this.

On paper, it is shown that they do have vehicles, but from what we learn on the ground, they certainly don't. So somewhere between middle management and senior management, someone is blatantly lying to us in terms of feedback.

The funny part is, as with the previous round, I already hear questions being thrown around about where and how I get the information regarding this. Now, I would like to touch on this a little bit.

On Sunday we had the Commemoration Day, SAPS National Commemoration Day for fallen heroes, people that paid the ultimate price. And we went and paid tribute to the 12 members that lost their lives in the past financial year. And the acting Minister of Police made a statement that didn't sit well with me. And he may not have meant it badly, but he introduced me to an MEC in the Free State. And he looked at me and he said to the MEC, this is Chairperson Cameron, the one that always lambasts the police in the media. And I thought to myself, you know what? I bleed with the police, I cry with the police, I absolutely live for the police. And every single question and every single matter that I take on is a matter based on information that the good cops shared with me, the cops that actually had the guts to come forward and speak…

Ian (07:40.884)

…and to make a statement about lambasting and just, you know. making useless attacks on the police is not only not true. It creates a total misperception of why we're doing what we're doing.

And when I think about Sky, the police dog, and the 12 members that paid the ultimate price, and you go look at their families and you have to look them in the eyes, it's clear to me that the very command structure that should, in many cases, be looking after these members, choose not to and it's frustrating to the good leaders in the police as well.

At Commemoration Day I saw several generals that are career members, brigadiers as well, phenomenal, absolutely phenomenal police officers and even when you speak with them you hear the frustration about people being put in positions that simply do not know what they are doing and that they've essentially then start to neglect the good people on the ground.

Chris Steyn (08:46.602)

And you are also fighting on behalf of Flying Squad officers in Nelson Mandela Bay, who are now ironically being investigated for using their own vehicles to fight crime.

Ian (08:56.91)

Yeah, just imagine that you actually, because the State can't ensure that you have a vehicle, you step forward, you do something about it yourself, you seize an entire massive shipment of illicit firearms, and then you get investigated because you used your own vehicle. It simply makes no sense. I mean, the personal risk that they took to use their own personal vehicles for this, just in terms of the risk of being identified by criminals in the future, is already a major, major testimony to their bravery and their integrity and how seriously they take their jobs.

And the worst part is that General Ncata, the provincial commissioner in the Eastern Cape, newly appointed, when he was still the acting provincial commissioner, I took him on about the vehicle shortage at Flying Squad. I visited Flying Squad in 2025. We made scathing findings about the conditions that those members were in. Many of the members at that stage already were either booking off sick because they don't have vehicles to drive or they were going to go work in charge offices at normal police stations because Flying Squad don't have vehicles. In fact, there’s a running joke amongst the police and I know we laugh about it now that they call Flying Squad the Dying Squad. But actually if you think about it seriously, it's not a laughing matter. And Ncata had this extremely arrogant answer in the media when we did the first visit and he said, yeah, he notes the ill-informed comment by the chairperson, but we will show in the crime stats how well we are combating crime. Well, that was a failure, it didn't happen, and now the same Flying Squad more than a year later still doesn't have vehicles. So the joke is on Mcata.

And I find it absolutely pathetic that between the Western and the Eastern Cape, a lot of the police management, and not all of them, a lot of them simply disregard the role that we play with oversight. You know Chris, we ask these questions day in and day out and we simply do not get answers and then you've got arrogant people like Ncata that make comments like that in the media when his own house is not in order.

Chris Steyn (11:16.802)

What about Delft? Is there still a severe vehicle shortage there as well, Ian?

Ian (11:23.098)

It's a massive vehicle shortage. Let me tell you the broader story regarding this. So a few months ago, myself and colleague Nicholas Gotsell visited the Delft police station and we found really, really poor conditions, especially with regards to vehicle shortages.

And unfortunately at that stage, or not at that stage, again, we didn't receive any kind of answer from the South African Police Service. In fact, it went as far as the police having to ask for an extension several times and we eventually got to the point where we didn't get any answer at all. Up to three or four times that we asked but never ever got a response.

So for now what we know is that that station, the Delft police station hardly has a 40 to 45 percent vehicle strength capacity

As with several other stations, we know that there are stations and for the sake of it being public there were stations and I won't name them for security reasons, but there are stations for example that don't have don’t have R assault rifles, but they have to fight extortionists that are armed with ak-47s

Many of these questions we've asked; the Western Cape management of the South African Police Service simply do not answer. There are a handful of major generals and brigadiers that when you ask them directly, they always answer, they're always keen to help. I'm hoping that with the new provincial commissioner, we might see a difference. But so far, unfortunately, zero improvement.

Chris Steyn (13:20.344)

Meanwhile, Ian, can you give us an update on the shooting incident involving Major General Feroz Khan who has been sacked?

Ian (13:32.163)

So on the incident itself, I don't have major feedback. It's not something that I've got direct contact with, but the long and the short of it is that General Khan didn't show up once again for a disciplinary and the SAPS had given him adequate time. Now, I know the police, as from what I've already said, is certainly not perfect but I can tell you in this case they bent over backwards to make sure that all the t's are crossed and eyes are dotted and they did everything according to the book and Khan clearly didn't work together the way that he could have.

Now what was interesting is the issue explained at the Madlanga Commission about the the attempt to secretly backdate sick notes, sick letters and the fact that while claiming incapacity to a certain extent he was still able to open the door for police members that visited his home. So one must ask if he's got constant time and energy to do all this litigation, to push back against the Madlanga Commission, to try and litigate his way out of disciplinary action of the South African Police Service, certainly he's got the power and the energy to go and appear at the Madlanga Commission.

So I think it's a good thing that he was dismissed. I think the South African Police Service is better off without him and I'm hoping that the relevant other procedures will be attended to swiftly.

Chris Steyn (15:17.236)

Ian from our private conversations, you've had concerns about General Khan going back many years.

Ian (15:24.152)

Yeah, so I mean, Chris, I've really been bent over backwards to try and put as much effort as possible into highlighting some of the issues regarding Mr. Khan. And we simply never got an answer. The first time happened at the end of 2024. I just been elected as the police chairperson and the committee chairperson and within less than an hour - and I've shared this with you before - after mentioning him not even by name, just insinuating that I'm speaking about him, his lawyers sent me a letter telling me to either keep quiet or they will take action against me and they said that they assume that I'm speaking about their client.

Furthermore, we kept on highlighting it and despite asking, despite interaction with Special Leave Minister Mchunu, no action was taken whatsoever. And again, it comes back to this issue of oversight.

I must mention it again, the minister's comment about lambasting the police. If you read through the amount of questions that we ask the South African Police Service with regards to oversight that we don't get a response to, then you start realising how oversight is disregarded by some of these institutions.

I look at disciplinary issues just in a Western Cape capacity. Prince Alfred Hamlet SAPS. There are criminal cases linked to the police in the Western Cape that we've been asking for feedback on for, I don't know, three or four months. The TRT unit in the Western Cape is the only TRT unit in the country that doesn't have its own email address or IT infrastructure, phones, et cetera. They don't have adequate members and vehicles. The Klapmuts Police Station has hardly any vehicles. They don't even have hot water for years on end. And so the list just goes on…

Ian (17:43.021)

…big things and small things.

So we highlight and highlight, whether it's Khan or General Thiel, we've highlighted them. General Fani, of course, he is currently again on suspension, is another one that we keep on highlighting. But unfortunately, in many of these cases, they choose not to take action, or they simply dismiss the questions that we ask. So I've got news for them. We'll just keep asking.

Chris Steyn (18:12.334)

Is that the message you have for Acting Minister Cachalia? You will not stop asking questions.

Ian (18:18.628)

Well, respectfully to Minister Cachalia, understand that first of all, I haven't been here for a year or two. I've been working in the capacity to support whistleblowers from inside the police for just over 15 years. I live to improve the South African Police Service and I care deeply for the good men and women that wear that uniform. And I honestly believe that there are enough of the good people in the South African Police Service for us to fix it and to make a significant impact.

So I take it very personally when a comment is made that disregards the hard work that we put in. So the message is very, very simple: whether the minister likes it or not, and whether we get pushback or not on the questions that we ask, we will keep asking. We will keep highlighting and we will keep exposing. And while I give credit to the good work, I'm not gonna stop asking the difficult questions that we deserve answers on.

Chris Steyn (19:31.416)

Thank you. That was Ian Cameron, the chairperson of Parliament's Portfolio Committee on Police. Speaking to Business News, I'm Christine. Thank you, Ian.

Ian (19:45.444)

Thanks Chris.

Cameron’s message for Cachalia: I will not stop asking questions