President Cyril Ramaphosa “stumbles through life under the misapprehension that he's not accountable to South Africans for what he does, forgetting who put him there in the first place. South Africans.” This is the charge from Democratic Alliance (DA) MP Advocate Glynnis Breytenbach. She spoke to BizNews after the DA laid charges of corruption against Human Settlements Minister Thembi Simelane for allegedly stealing more than R700 000 by fraudulently billing Eskom when she worked for Vitrovian whose charges to Eskom appear “ridiculously” inflated. Eskom was allegedly invoiced by Vitrovian for work done by employees that did not exist, and Simelane’s signature appears on the very first of these fraudulent invoices. The corruption charges come on top of Simelane’s alleged involvement and subsequent implication in the looting of VBS Bank - after which the President ignored calls to suspend or sack her, and instead just moved her from Justice to Human Settlements. He has also repeatedly refused to disclose the content of Simelane’s report to him on these allegations. Breytenbach believes his continued protection of Simelane raises serious questions on his ability and willingness to root out corruption at the highest level. “There are many ministers in the Cabinet that are less than…salubrious…who should, in all fairness, step aside and not hold those positions,” Breytenbach says..Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox at 5:30am weekdays. Register here..Support South Africa’s bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here..If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here..Watch here:.Listen here:.Edited transcript of the interview.Chris Steyn (00:02.52)The Democratic Alliance is ramping up its pursuit of allegedly corrupt minister Thembi Simelani. D.A. MP advocate, Glynnis Breytenbach is here to give us the details. Welcome, Glynnis. Glynnis Breytenbach (00:15.672)All right, thank you. Chris Steyn (00:17.806)Please tell us about the corruption charges you have laid against the minister. Glynnis Breytenbach (00:21.838)…we went to the Cape Town Central Police Station and laid charges of corruption against Minister Thembi Simelani. You know the report on the 31st of March in News24 of the 700,000 Rand, you know the link, alleged link to corrupt activities with regards to Eskom and Vitrovian and the signature of the Minister on the invoice of Vitrovian, it’s just one too much. Already the VBS thing is deeply concerning. It's not getting sufficient attention or traction. The investigation into it is very slow and unsatisfactory, the pace of it. And then, you know, as a sort of a consolation prize, after sitting on it for four months, the President moves her from Justice, which she clearly couldn’t, be to Human Settlements, which has a much bigger budget. And that's supposed to make everything okay. South Africans are supposed to be satisfied with that kind of an arrangement, with this type of person representing them, not only in Parliament, but in Cabinet. Clearly they aren't, and we can and should do better. There's 68 million South Africans, is this the best we can do? I don't think so. But this story of News24 breaking with the Vitorovian-Eskom issue was, I mean, it's just a bridge too far. And so we laid criminal charges … for corruption. I assume the docket will be sent to Middleburg for investigation there, in Mpumalanga. And then we'll have to just try and keep tabs on it and keep pushing. And again, the Minister owes an explanation both to, I suppose, the President. I'm not sure that…she says she informed him about the VBS thing, whether she did or not, I can't say because the President refuses to make that report public, won't give it to us. He's refused that. The PAIA application was declined and the appeal was declined. We'll have to see what we're going to do with that, you know, whether we're going to litigate or not. Glynnis Breytenbach (02:40.447)And now this, you know. So she owes the President an explanation. She owes South Africans an explanation. And honestly, you know, she should really just do the right thing and step aside. It's not a healthy situation for cabinet ministers to be embroiled in this kind of controversy. If she's not guilty, you know, she'll make a comeback and her integrity will be intact. Glynnis Breytenbach (03:07.703)To hang on to your job under these circumstances at all costs is undignified, really. Chris Steyn (03:27.044)Why do you think President Cyril Ramaphosa is sitting on that report? Glynnis Breytenbach (03:33.974)Well, clearly there can only be one reason. If you have nothing to hide, then you say, please go right ahead and have a look at what…there's nothing to see here. If there's something to see, then you try and hide it. So I assume there's something in there that is controversial and he doesn't want A us to know, but more importantly, he doesn't want South Africans to know. So he stumbles through life under the misapprehension that he's not accountable to South Africans for what he does, forgetting who put him there in the first place. South Africans. Chris Steyn (04:15.64)Are there any, let me repeat that, are there any other ministers in your crosshairs? Glynnis Breytenbach (04:23.563)Well, you know, the ANC is a gift that keeps on giving. So it's like pin the toad on the donkey. You can almost go anywhere and you'll hit somebody. There are many ministers in the Cabinet that are less than, know, salubrious, that who should, in all fairness, step aside and not hold those positions. There are members of Parliament, particularly in the ANC and MK, who shouldn't be there because they really are under a cloud. But in this imperfect situation that we found ourselves in, they're there. But the criminal justice system should take care of them. And the criminal justice system is failing on every level. And that's not...the fault of any one person. It's a systemic issue, it's a years-of-neglect issue, it's a lack of career pathing and planning and it's a short-sightedness in applying policies that have led us to this situation that we're in and it's not easy to fix. But the criminal justice system should be taking care of those bad apples and it's not. Chris Steyn (05:48.118)It must be hard for you as a prosecutor with a hell of a reputation to watch what has become of the NPA. Glynnis Breytenbach (05:56.745)It's extremely distressing, it's very, hard. Not only for me, but for many other prosecutors still within the system and many who have already retired and are out of the system. The NPA is a shadow, even that's flattering, but a shadow of its former self. And it's going to be so difficult to fix. It isn't fixed. The current National Director, I will give her the benefit of the doubt and accept that she's tried very hard to fix it. The needle has hardly moved, and experience is leaving at an alarming rate, both in the form of resignations and in the form of very experienced people retiring. And there's nothing being done to prevent that, to retain those skills, to employ them in some other fashion. When I say employ… Glynnis Breytenbach (06:55.943)I mean, employ the skills, not employ the people. The people are not interested in jobs. They'll do it for free. They're willing to help, but for some reason that doesn't happen. So, yeah. All of the experience is now at a, the NPA is at a stage where all the experienced prosecutors are reaching retirement age and they're going to retire. And there's just insufficient experience to properly fill those positions and there's no one to learn from because all of those people are now gone. So it's a dire situation. I did an unannounced oversight a week ago in Gauteng and in the Western Cape and I found some places so depressingly void of experience. And then I found one or two little nuggets of gold, you know, that young prosecutors really clearly inexperienced, clearly promoted too soon, clearly out of their depth, but trying so hard. And as long as someone's prepared to try, you know, can walk a road with them. But some just are so depressingly inexperienced, they just simply can't cope. And yeah, it was very sobering. Chris Steyn (08:28.878)Can you give us an update on your proposed Anti-Corruption Commission? Glynnis Breytenbach (08:33.51)Well, it was presented to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development as expected. It did not gain support from the EFF or MK, but I mean, that I absolutely expected, of course, because they're largely. the people it's aimed at, and they're aware of that. So, yeah, we'll have to see what the committee does with it. Chris Steyn (09:02.894)Okay, that was Advocate Glynnis Breytenbach of the Democratic Alliance speaking to BizNews after corruption charges were laid against Minister Thembi Simelane. Thank you, Glynis, and I'm Chris Steyn