De Beer: Mashatile’s diamond; Helen’s nuclear button; Cyril’s missing “rugby balls”

In this episode of the Sunday Show with BizNews, Neil de Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement (UIM), slams Deputy President Paul Mashatile for not declaring a diamond gifted to his wife by Ponzi accused Louis Liebenberg; warns that Democratic Alliance Federal Chair Helen Zille knows where's the nuclear button to implode the Government of National Unity (GNU); and calls President Cyril Ramaphosa "spineless, gutless" and without backbone,"watermelons" and "rugby balls" for redeploying Minister Thembi Simelane. Discussing the deportation this weekend of the killer of former South African Communist Party (SACP) leader Chris Hani, De Beer comments on speculation that it was an "inside job" and that some members of the African National Congress (ANC) were part of a plot to use the Right Wing to dispose of him. He also expresses outrage over the costly training of Gauteng Premier Panyaza Lesufi's "AmaPanyaza" who are "suddenly goose-stepping in the format of Russia and of China". As for the R90 billion rand municipal debt to ESKOM, De Beer warns: "if we don't get corporate, economic, soluble good governance in the municipal areas, we are dead. We are not going to make it.".The seventh BizNews Conference, BNC#7, is to be held in Hermanus from March 11 to 13, 2025. The 2025 BizNews Conference is designed to provide an excellent opportunity for members of the BizNews community to interact directly with the keynote speakers, old (and new) friends from previous BNC events – and to interact with members of the BizNews team. Register for BNC#7 here..Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox at 5:30am weekdays. Register here..Watch here.Listen here.Extended transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___.Chris Steyn (00:02.274).It's a beautiful, beautiful Sunday in the Cape. And we are on the Sunday Show with Neil de Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement. Welcome back, Neil..Neil De Beer (00:14.757).Yeah, very good day. Chris, what a blessing, what a beautiful day to be in South Africa. I always say to so many people, and Chris, this week, so many people in a mall, in a chemist, in a restaurant, a coffee shop, coming over and starting to say hello and saying that they love what we do. It is such a privilege to meet them, but I always tell them South Africa is a brilliant country, just bad management. That's it. So yeah, we've got a big show. Let's roll..Chris Steyn (00:52.696).Let's go. Let's go on to that bad management. Since it's almost Christmas, shall we start with a diamond? In this case, one that is not forever. The one gifted to the wife of Deputy President Paul Mashatile by the Carat, not vegetable, Carat King and Ponzi accused Louis Liebenberg, who also just happens to have been a benefactor of former President Jacob Zuma. Positively Shakespearean. Let's go..Neil De Beer (01:23.121).Yeah, Chris unbelievable, you know they say sometimes people from out the depths of a grave still speak so loud. It's unbelievable, Louis Liebenberg is still in jail, but he's still relevant. Jy weet ek het nou gedink, sluit hom toe. Shut up. But no, this guy, even in the clutches of custody, is making front page news. .And this one, very very particularly, because this is, again, our naughty accused alleged Deputy President Mashatile, who happens to receive apparently, now factually, a diamond from Louis Liebenberg as a present to his wife. .Now you know they say diamonds are forever, apparently not this one. So the news breaks, he has to now with a blushing cheek say that he is going to hand back the diamond. I don't think there was a matter of shock or guilt. I think he was caught out – again. .So now Chris, that's not the story. The story is not about a accused Ponzi fraudster that is currently on trial. And we don't have to go into the depth of that man. It was on the pages of every paper. But they were serious accusations made against Liebenberg on funding people that are in high political positions. Some of those names are very well known to us. And suddenly Paul Mashatile is now listed on that list, the second most prominent citizen of this country. .But Chris, what really irks me is not these gifts, jewelery and obvious purchasing of consciousness. The fact that Mr. Mashatile did not declare, did not declare receiving such a gift is again my question on where does this man's absolute consciousness stand on ethics. Now again it seems every Sunday I am saying it. I will not stop saying it….Neil De Beer (03:47.663).until he faces all the charges that he is supposed to serve. Because he's not going to get away with it, Chris. And at the end of the day, you and I, Citizen X, ons will ook 'n diamantjie he. We would love it. Why did he give it to him? Because he's a nice guy. Utter rubbish. I'm telling you, allegedly, apparently, al daai blêrrie woorde that you have to use without being sued, it was to purchase power. This is it..Neil De Beer (04:17.191).We've been in this game long enough. So I hope we've got evidence that such stone has been returned. The question is, Chris, to whom does he return it? Because I don't think anybody, especially Oom Pieter Groenewald is going to allow Pieter to sit there, govern Correctional Services and have Paul hand the diamond back to Louis in custody. Hy koop gou daai tronk. So no, interesting, but shocking. Sad, I think..Chris Steyn (04:47.472).Over to your "girlfriend" Democratic Alliance Federal Chair Ms. Helen Zille. What can you tell us about her Nuclear Option for the Government of National Unity,.Neil De Beer (05:02.129).You know Chris, I'm going to tell you. I don't care what people say. I am a huge fan of Helen. I have been a friend of Helen Zille. I've had my ups and downs. I've had my battles on twist. But one thing I'll tell you, she doesn't take nonsense, and people will say she must go and people will say her time is past and she's lost it a little bit. I don't care. I like that little bit of lost. .Now every single week, Frikkie Fikile sits there and says another chirp to the GNU and go as far as saying last week that the DA can go. You know, we okay. What kind of lala land or substance is this man taking that he can continually think that the ANC is now past the traumatic disaster and is again in charge. Hy lieg man. We all know that the current turn, even minute, of the economy of this country, may I say a little bit of a better feeling? And I'm going to say it, and you know I'm not a member, but it's the DA. It is the GNU. Jy can maar sê wat jy will. And this is a fact. .Now, Helen, every single time comes up with a rebuff, which is typical her, straight to the point, vattie nonsens nie. And she says in an interview, I just want to make it very clear to the ANC that leaving the GNU, and here comes the genius within the sentence, that that is my nuclear option. .Read more: De Beer: Mashatile the Dodger; Kodwa & Co – the Protected; Mashaba & Majozi; the Race Card; & Zille bombshell loading….Now, Chris, if you understand war, you understand military maneuvre, if you understand armoury, and if you understand the global war game, the ultimate of such a matter of finality has always been the threat of a nuclear war and who will push the button first. So her analogy….Neil De Beer (07:22.809).is as follows: If we walk out of this GNU, when you drop a nuclear bomb, Nagasaki, Hiroshima, the fact is it's over and you can only use that on that system once. You can't come back again. Daars niks. So I found it very unique by her chirp-back to say it's my nuclear option. The fact that she says it, therefore knows that she has it. Therefore she understands it. En daai knoppie? She knows where it is. .And the scale of balance of continually telling the ANC that you are not prominent, you don't like us, there's a split in the ANC, GNU and the RET, and that the GNU will continually talking so that we can keep it together unsaying 2027 benchmark – and at this curremt moment, Chris, we need to start doing something to protect ourselves against the MK onslaught and the continual crack within that system of the ANC..And I now see rumour drums on the ground. Gayton McKenzie apparently is not so much the preferred kid on the block anymore. I hear some knives out for him, specifically now the recent court judgement that he needs to produce some papers. That's weird because I thought he was the President's favourite. Now, Gayton previously told me, I like Gayty, that I must go back into politics, run around the government and then reach ministerial status where he is. I loved it. I support it. Just a message to him: when he was still serving in another department, I was already running around in those halls as a person that was loved in the Struggle. So no fight with him, just good luck. This is a scenario that I'm going to follow because now the GNU is settling, the GNU is looking at each other. Who's doing what? Who's not doing what? Interesting 2025 Chris, but.….Neil De Beer (09:49.159).Nuclear option, the button is there..Chris Steyn (09:53.072).And meanwhile, President Cyril Ramaphosa played musical ministerial chairs..Neil De Beer (10:03.507).Chris, what does a person say? It is like a fly that is embroiled in a spiderweb and the fly actually thinks that it can unbundle itself. The thing with a spiderweb is the more this fly tries to get out, the tighter the grip of the spiderweb. It just sucks you in until happy canopy, spinnekopp, spinnekop, they're down, it comes to eat you. Settles like that fly. He's just going from one worse entanglement to another. Chris again, spineless, gutless, absolutely sonner rug graat. This man, he sits and he doesn't have the watermelons. Hy het nie die rugby balle to get up and to fire Simelane. He doesn't have it, So what does he do? Instead of saying to her, every week more things come out about you, I cannot have you in a government that is supposed to clear up looting, the absolute drama and history of theft and corruption in this government. Because one of the things that this government must do is root out corruption. He's not doing it. There he says, instead of suspending her, instead of putting her on leave, instead of removing her, he moves her. Chris, where does he move her to? He doesn't move her to an inconsequential ministry. He doesn't put her in a ministry, I say it because I know it, there are certain positions in cabinet that are extremely important and some of them that are maintenance. You know, Sport, Art, Culture, critical for those people, critical for the country, but not death defying on the future of a country. Those kinds of issues of ministries, they are maintenance issues. You know where he puts her? He puts her in historically, fact, we can bring it up, one of the most plundered, lootable….Neil De Beer (12:29.247).…lootable ministries in this country. Human Settlements, Housing. Chris, this country has a history that the housing department of this country is the pig's trough. Go look at the charges. Go look at Zondo. Go look at where most of those thefts took part in provinces..Neil De Beer (12:58.535).Housing! Pay you a billion so that you can build a thousand housing, you build five and then you disappear. This is it and he makes her the minister. .Now I'm sorry Chris, this is not personal, this is IQ. This country when they see this should sit back and be in shock. Not because of her, she is who she is. She has done what she has done. This indictment is on the President of the Republic of this country because he is the most executive authority and she serves under him. Can you imagine that you take this person under massive, massive allegations and you make her a treasurer of probably one of the most important functionaries in this country? It is shocking, it is sad, it is despicable. Just another proof of who leads this country..Chris Steyn (14:01.345).Now with an eye on the next election, as all eyes are already, the South African Communist Party wants to contest it independently, apparently because they feel that the African National Congress has treated the DA with more respect than its old alliance partners. What do you think, Neil?.Neil De Beer (14:19.131).Hulle is moer toe. You know Chris, let me quickly tell you, I would like to send an email to Blade Nzimande. And I would like to tell him, Blade, Communism is over. Actually, the South African Communist Party is the South African Socialist Party. You are no longer Communists. You are now Socialists. I know what he's going to answer, Chris. He's going to write back and say, yes, but we printed the t-shirts. So…you know the branding is because let me quickly tell you my own absolutely, Chris, let me quickly tell you do you know what is trifle….Neil De Beer (15:02.651).My grandmother, Ouma Minnie, made trifle. The problem with my grandmother is in her later age, she forgot how many dots of port or sherry she put in. So all the kids got drunk on a Sunday. Dankie Ouma. But no one can ever remake my grandmother's trifle. It's gone. It's like a Communist Party. Don't you get it? Hulle is moer toe, They collapsed in Russia. China is definitely not a Communist party. I called China an absolute fact to the face of one of the ambassadors. I said to that person, you are not a Communist. You are absolutely not a Communist. He said to me, then what are we? I said, you're a Dollar Communist. He said, what mean? I said, what that means is you try to give money to everybody, keep a lot for yourself, but you know, without being a capitalist, you are nothing..There does not exist a Communist regime in this country. Show me one. North Korea is not a Communistic state, it's a dictatorship. Havana has changed, they're trying to dabble between the days between Ché Guevara and who they are now. Of there's no communistic state alive. The only place where you physically see people who want to pretend that they are communist is the SACP. How relevant are they? So the question is there they go and the SACP marches to say that we should bring textiles back to South Africa. But if you take the SACP t-shirt, it says made in China. So when you now have these guys getting up and saying, we are splitting away from the ANC, it's not dramatic. We are going to contest the elections in 2020. It's not dramatic. There's no loss to the ANC because the SACP, to be really frank and honest, which I know very well, is not relevant anymore. They now are so desperate because they see a sinking ship. They see that the ANC loves, not loves, but prefers the company of the DA, of the PA, of the Freedom Front Plus. They are irrelevant. They did not even get a seat in the discussions of the GNU. So it's not a surprise. And I don't say that they are not going to get some votes..Neil De Beer (17:25.431).You know, they are just those kind of people. But relevant? No, I don't think so. And good luck with new t-shirts..Chris Steyn (17:33.904).Well, while we are on the SACP, its former, its late leader, Chris Hani's has been deported to Poland. Now that has reignited rumours and allegations that have surfaced over the years that the Right Wing was used by certain elements in the African National Congress to get rid of Chris Hani. You must have, in intelligence, heard those rumours many times, Neil..Neil De Beer (18:08.125).You know, I get a lot of emails Chris and people say to me, where did I get my info? How do we get to the detail? Let me explain. If you are a butcher and you own a butchery and you sell the butchery, Chris, when you sell your butchery, do you stop eating meat?.I joined the ANC's military wing in 1989. 1990-91, CODESA, first round, Mandela released, I was there. Part of that machine. Not the big role, but I was there. Luthuli House, National Security Advisor to the Department of then Culture, Arts, and Constitutional Affairs, sixth floor in the old Luthuli House. I was there. '93 April, they shot Chris that Sunday. Everybody knew and everybody thought civil war. In actual fact, guns were being made ready. You will remember the only thing that stopped that war was the action of Nelson Mandela getting into his Cressida, going to the SABC without the authority of De Klerk and demanding to go on air. And that day he said that we will not go to war, we will not go and make war in this country. We will go to the ballot box. Because if we do today what so many want to do, then we will prove everybody that are the detractors of us right. That was his talk. We didn't go to war. Massive funeral. .But then the highlight, who did it? Clive Derby-Lewis and Janus Walus..Neil De Beer (20:09.223).Clive, a member of the then Conservative Party, Janus Walus, an activist and a person that's there, they are the trigger pullers apparently. What's very weird is that it was an older white lady who was the neighbour to Chris Hani who identified the two white men that killed him. Strange, it wasn't anybody else. I do remember Tokyo Sexwale being one of the first people at the site. .Move forward, they go to jail. Clive Derby-Lewis gets out. But the fight was, we know who pulled the trigger. Who told them to pull the trigger? They were the trigger men. They were not the conspirators. Now Chris, in the intelligence services in politics in global, there's always a secret that's spoken about, but it's never delivered. Who told the trigger man to shoot JF Kennedy? Who? Who told that man to shoot Abraham Lincoln? Who are the people that told those people to shoot Chris Hani? That's our country's political secret. There are a few in my opinion. I'm not one of them. And even if I was one of them, this is not for me to say to the world. But I'm not. But there are people who say they absolutely know. The rumour is it was a inside job. It was a matter of even, allegedly ANC members that were part of that plot. You can see it, it's everyone. And funny, Jacob Zuma, isn't that the one that he uses every time that he says he's going to push his nuclear button?.Neil De Beer (22:32.785).You will notice Jacob Zuma will always say, but I'll tell, I'll say. I think if he does, if he ever does and if it was so, I think the problem, there are probably still people alive today and possibly, Chris, people that are in power today that bear that secret. So it's not like Mandela, Sisulu….Neil De Beer (23:01.849).Mbeki, Govan, they are dead and they took it to the grave. Nay, nay, If it's true, they walk amongst us. Clive Derby-Lewis died, cancer, and Yanus Walus, two years of parole, suddenly deported. .Now Chris, interesting. The Hani family, at every parole hearing, said that they want the truth. Which means they don't believe these are people. They wanted to know. That was their absolute appeal every time to stop them from getting parole because they say they want to know the truth. Weird thing, yesterday, just before he gets deported to Poland, the daughter of Chris Hani makes an appeal to have a meeting with him before he leaves the country. They had two years to do it. He was on parole for two years. Why now? So I don't think, Chris, that man leaving this country to Poland has closed the everlasting question of what is the real story behind the story..Chris Steyn (24:24.112).I think he's going to go on air in Poland on Wednesday night. Let's see what he reveals, whether that is going to change the history of our country..Neil De Beer (24:37.071).I think, you know, another Wikileaks, you know, if, but I doubt it. I doubt that he would do that. I think he's gone into the abyss, he's gone into infinity. But one thing, there are a couple of people today that are celebrating the deportation, undoubtedly..Chris Steyn (25:02.541).Neil, over to Gauteng and AmaPanyaza. Have you been keeping an eye on the training? The Lesufi boys..Neil De Beer (25:12.688).You know, there's a lot of people, Chris, today that are my age, a good age, but let's call it all the young men over 50. The majority of us, we know what is training. We know what is discipline. We know what is drilling, marching, skiet-en-beweeg. We understand the lychee juice that we used to get and the absolute bond of having military training..Chris, 450 million Rand. You know people are starting to get used to these words billion, million. We cannot as a country start getting comfortable with six or nine zeros. Dis 'n allermintige klomp geld. Now there goes Mr. Lesufi, Premier, and he sets a target that he's now going to create his own army, his own wardens. I don't know what the hell they are. Traffic, law enforcement. In my days, we used to have blompotte. We used to call them blompotte, kitskonstables. I don't know what the hell they are. But one thing I know, they suddenly goose-stepping in the format of Russia and of China. The goose-step. I didn't know that we've got that kind of legitimacy. .Then, shocking news. Guess who's part of the trainers? Not us, not the competent people that are in this country, the people that are ex-army, ex-SAPs, ex-well-trained. No! Eswatini Police!.Neil De Beer (27:08.435).Chris, daars 'n woord me f…flip. Listen, Eswatini Police, previously Swaziland, now I have no idea what the hell Eswatini Police can come train South African Gauteng Law Enforcement. I mean, mean, Chris, I was then told the reason why…the reason Eswatine Police are training the people is because we have a good corporate governance, a relationship with that country. So have we with Mozambique and so with Angola and Zambia. Maar jy gat nie vir ons laat train…You're not truly going to bring those people to train us. Something's wrong. Why? This is another Cuba fiasco of saying to people, but we'll give you money or we'll give you accommodation. Some or other thing is wrong..And then finally, Chris, don't you find it shocking that we have to put extra provincial law enforcement and pay 450 million because SAPS can't do their job? That's what you're saying. You are actually saying that the reason we need to put another thousand, two thousand people on the ground to fight crime is because SAPS failed. You're a premier, and you are trying to run for possible president in the future. This is an indictment, another one that Lesufi will have to say to us why and what reason. We know why. This is absolutely trying to score points and the only one that suffers, Chris, again, is the pocket of the taxpayer. We're paying for this and I find it irregular and I won't let this story go. We will monitor it..Chris Steyn (28:53.872).Meanwhile, D-Day is lubing for the BELA Bill….Neil De Beer (29:08.221).The deadline as far as I'm, I'm standing under correction, Chris is the 13th of December that the President called that that is the deadline. .There is this matter now of Solidariteit and the AfriForum grouping that said that they had a meeting. .Now, Chris, there is a platform called NEDLAC and at NEDLAC there is a huge conference of various entities and organisations that come together and make certain strategic decisions at NEDLAC..You will remember that when Solidarity walked out under their CEO, he declared that they have absolutely come to an agreement on Section 4 and 5, which has to do with our choice of language, choice of the custodianship of the parent on that issue. That he said, government signed, categorically, they signed the NEDLAC Article 4 and 5 agreement. Two days later, Paul Mashatile says rubbish. Paul Mashatile again, eh? Daar kom hy weer. Willie Wikkelspies. Denies it and says that NEDLAC's agreements are not binding to government and to state, and then says that the GNU, Chris, have their own dispute resolution committee. And if there is a dispute between the DA, the Freedom Front, whoever still has the guts to fight them, that that is the relevant entity to talk to..Now, Chrissie, I don't think it's going to happen. I think the words of Cyril, Soekie Cyril was if there's no clarity or alignment, ANC policy stands. There we go. So big ticking matter on another possible atom or nuclear option..Chris Steyn (31:09.292).The third one in this programme today, Now, I don't particularly feel like talking about ESKOM today, but let us go to that municipal debt. Where is it standing now?.Neil De Beer (31:23.667).You know Chris again, nine zeros. I call it a GABILLION because it's too much money. But in this country when you say a billion, people go, another billion. We cannot allow that..I sit back and monitor weekly some economy, some politics, some global politics, some warfare law and order, specifically now the outcome of the Navy that only has one active ship apparently. Now, Chris, I don't want to go there because if Mozambique attacks us tomorrow with a two-seater canoe, is ons moer toe, so I don't even want to go down there. It makes my collar go mad. In the Navy they say: one boat is nil, two boats is one. Go ask the Navy people. We are gone. So anyway, God bless us and maybe this December a couple of volunteers…can go out there with 'n winbuks and shoot the Chinese while they're trawling our fish. Thank you. .So Chris, can you imagine ESKOM always declaring itself bankrupt? Now we're not talking about the stunning job of not having load-shedding. And we should stop applauding them because that was their job..But we are so eager to just say power. Chris, do you know that when they ask for 53 billion or they ask for 100 billion so they can regenerate, so they can do other stuff to bring alternatives? You and I have had that debate. To find out that the municipalities of this country, which 80%, by the way, are dead, they can't get clean audits. The bastion of this country's local governments, 80% are bankrupt. But worse than that, they owe ESKOM combined in September 2024, 90 billion. In Afrikaans, 90 miljart..Neil De Beer (33:31.921).Therefore, Chris, it means, and I'm not a calculator, but it means in simple economics that the biggest debt burden of making probably ESKOM liquid, of making them sustainable or absolutely at least adding, is the debt of the municipalities of 90 billion. .What made us get there? I'll tell you what made us get there. Absolute mismanagement. Absolutely. They can say what they want, the ANC government in 30 years destroyed the most critical foundation of governance, which is not Parliament, which is not province, it's municipal. Because I want my lawn cut, my sewage done, my garbage removed, and I want services. Can you imagine they owe ESKOM 90 billion – and that's why we've got potholes..So I'm sorry, Chris, until we don't get corporate, economic, soluble good governance in the municipal areas, we are dead. We are not going to make it. .And the reason is that this ANC has allowed people to take and not to give. And that's another debate in our next show where we are going to talk, Chris, about the evolution of the economic mass in this country, whom never were charged for power and electricity before '94 and suddenly now are being told that you will pay your bill. .This is a thing no one spoke about. Is that it just went flag up, flag down and there was no realisation that we have to educate the people to tell them you have to pay. You can't just get. That is a rich country that can give. We are definitely not it. We are not a charity case. We will have to start cutting power, removing services, and then rebuilding this country's structures..Chris Steyn (35:42.682).Thank you. That was Neil de Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement on the Sunday Show with BizNews and I'm Chris Steyn. Thank you, Neil..Neil De Beer (35:54.044).A blessed week to everybody..Read also:.De Beer: "Ramagate" loading… MK's march to power and Vodacom's competition thrillerDe Beer: Zuma holds the "dirty secret" Aces; Mashatile fires a warning shot; Shivambu in MK power moveDe Beer: The Bermuda Triangle of politics & the dark underworld of assassinations…

De Beer: Mashatile’s diamond; Helen’s nuclear button; Cyril’s missing “rugby balls”

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