Neil de Beer: SA’s “hiding to hell” in a week of international political intrigue - and domestic drama

“There was no meeting. It was a hiding to hell. It was an absolute slap to us.” That is the take of Neil De Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement (UIM), on last week’s meeting between presidents Cyril Ramaphosa and Donald Trump in Washington. “… it was embarrassing for us, it looked like we were knocking on a door, bare feet, shorts and a T-shirt and asking the neighbour for an ice cream.” He says the biggest insult to Ramaphosa was the fact that none of the members of Trump’s delegation bothered to interact with him. “…absolute horrific occasion…when I saw them in the Oval Office, I said, maar dis die wynspan.” As for the pleas for more investment from the US, he says: “Another billion from America so that we can have it looted on Tuesday? No, our track record doesn't speak of trust whatsoever.” As for government’s proposal to ease B-BBEE licensing requirements for satellite service providers like Elon Musk’s Starlink, he says: “..great idea…but we have to start looking at South African companies that suffer”. De Beer also dissects the controversial EWC statements by Public Works and Infrastructure Minister Dean McPherson on the eve of the US visit, as well as the absence of Special Envoy Mcebisi Jonas from it. He slams the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) for another failure with fraud charges being provisionally withdrawn against former Cape Town MMC Malusi Booi and co-accused in the R1 billion housing tender case; and he comments on the arrest of a man for sending threatening messages directed at the president and Cape Town Mayor Geordin Hill-Lewis, as well as a CEO..Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox at 5:30am weekdays. Register here.Support South Africa’s bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here.If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here.The auditorium doors will open for BNIC#2 on 10 September 2025 in Hermanus. For more information and tickets, click here..Watch here:.Listen here:.Edited transcript of the interview.Chris Steyn (00:01.739)Welcome to the Sunday Show on the last Sunday of May. And welcome to the irrepressible Mr. Neil De Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement. Welcome, Neil.Neil De Beer (00:17.356)Ya, Chris, good to be back. I cannot believe we are already in June. We're about two weeks away, a week. This year has really gone by and every Sunday, what a pleasure. How bigger do we grow and how more insightful does this program become? And many people sending us messages and saying, please don't stop. So we can guarantee them as long as there's news and you and I are alive. We'll continue doing it. Thank you to everybody.Chris Steyn (00:44.715)I'm laughing because I know there many people who don't want us alive. But here we are, although you look like you were in a bar fight last night. Godfather duties. What?Neil De Beer (00:54.606)Godfather duties. No, I didn't have an arm wrestling match with Cyril. It's a due flow from the chemo that I'm getting at the moment, is double the amount of chemo I used to get three months ago. It's 12 bags that go in. I took it on Friday and what has happened is it leaves, you know, legions sometimes on your skin, which has obviously happened to me. So I might look like rough and tumble Rocky 12, but it's just that and it's part of the course. We face it like many other cancer patients in the country and in the world because we go through it. Many families sit with it.And all that I do is every morning when I wake up, Chris, I say thank you. And when I go to bed at night, I also say thank you for a great day. So now to everybody always sending me messages, fighting, just like we fight for this country, and we won't stop.Chris Steyn (02:00.873)Now I know you've been rearing for days to give us your take on that meeting between presidents Cyril Ramaphosa and Donald Trump. Go.Neil De Beer (02:11.596)Yeah, don't know if it was a lashing, I think a meeting, an Indaba or just a horrific display of our people not being prepared, which absolutely made me go on a Facebook trajectory. I think they felt it even up to Cairo and Louisiana.And I would like to unpack, now that I am calm, because I definitely wasn't calm last week in an interview, about where we are and what we are sitting with. You will remember, Chris, that this build-up to the United States meeting of Donald Trump was instigated by us and agreed for by America. But what we didn't know was that the parcel of representatives were not all of them the choice of Cyril Ramaphosa. We now find out that Mr. Trump, who gets what he wants, wanted to have some friends from South Africa there. Now that was the first step. That's hilarious. I mean, you're with and you're asking civilian people who happen to play golf that you love to a international meeting that was set to explode.And secondly, I might say that if it wasn't for Retief Goosen who came out firing and also Ernie that wanted to put down a couple of stuff, but Ernie was more reserved than Retief Goosen about the blatant crime happening in this country and then Johann Ruppert, which we'll unpack now. You know, God knows what he was doing there. So it starts off with this big crescendo, and I'm going to start this when they start the Land Appropriation bill, it goes over to the Parliament. We stifle ourselves not to have a budget. And then we have the outspokenness of various politicians in various parties, including the DA and the ANC, who are the two main partners in the GNU. Where does it start? Well, it starts at NAMPO. It starts at the largest agricultural conference in this country…Neil De Beer (04:35.126)…where everybody and dog's body wanted to triple through there before they go to America to show… You know, it's like people saying, Chris and I, absolutely. I don't know if you know people that talk like this, really, for what is that? So they will really tell you, you know, I'm not actually a racist. Or they will tell you, you know, I'm not racist because I've got black friends. Well, it was like that. It was, you know, I'm not racist because I was at NAMPO. No, you were there to catch a shine.Neil De Beer (05:04.503)Chris, out of NAMPO came two things. The continual attack of Cyril Ramaphosa calling people cowards for leaving the country and a person called Paul Mashatile who comes there and who continually says, but land without compensation is a policy and we will follow it through, but please don't leave. Is jy nou mal?Then, Chris, we get the statement from John Steenhuisen saying, you know that we don't have a genocide, correct, but that we have a crime problem and that we should sort out the crime problem. We don't have a crime problem. We have a mass crime problem. We don't have murder in this country. We have mass murder. So there's an opportunity that was missed to clearly say this is where we are. Chris, that's a fact. Now the other one, and I'm going to tell you now, you're going to laugh at me - and many people are probably going to write me a thousand words. I'm going to take Dean MacPherson out of this. Yes, I am. Yeah. I'm going to take Dean MacPherson out of this discussion and I'm going to tell you after speaking to many people this week, Chris, which I have, I actually formulated that what Dean said…Chris Steyn (06:09.843)I was gonna, I was gonna ask you.Neil De Beer (06:29.536)….and with the gentleman that was coming to interview him arriving 15 to 20 minutes late that when you now listen to Cyril, Paul Mashatile, John and everybody, the one that got the most attack was Dean MacPherson. And what did he say, Chris? Dean MacPherson said that the variation of discussing nil and zero on a compensation agreement or law in actual fact are two separate entities, but can be justified. So I listened and I went, Dean's not an idiot. Chris, Dean's not stupid, I don't see him as that. I've never met him as that. And I thought, okay, so here's the thing, Chris. After speaking to people within the Cabinet and speaking to people in the office, here's the thing. And he got absolutely lambasted for the wrong reason. I'll put it on record and Chris like it or not, it's my opinion. He said that zero compensation…And now here it comes. And nil compensation are both variances of a form of compensation. Now, right there, everybody goes deaf. Right there, everybody goes mad and no one actually continues listening to what he's saying. And what he's saying is, Chris, if he goes to the Plaza building in Cape Town, which is derelict and currently non-functional and is falling apart. You with me? Come with me. What he says is...Chris Steyn (08:02.581)Mm-hmm.Neil De Beer (08:04.342)…that if they are going to take that building because of the state it is in and the collapse of it in the inner city, that what they then will offer those people is nil compensation. Am I starting to make sense?Because zero, nil means that we are taking this piece of compensation, but the reading on the balance sheet will be nil invoice. That is a clear structure that they said and what he was trying to say. Got blown out the water, added to the DA and National and GNU klap, and that went, we're merrily on. So we've got now this massive stuff happening before we get to the US. We land at the United States.Chris, funny, everybody in a different aeroplane, hey? Not all of them on the same plane as the President. So John Steenhuisen and the rest of them did not fly with the President. Very interesting. Maybe we should also ask Qatar for a jet. Get to the White House. Johann Rupert, Retief Goosen, Ernie Els, and a gentleman called Adrian Gore was there from Discovery. He was invited by our president, not like the other ones, and he doesn't even get into the door. Adrian Gore's got to sit at the hotel because he gets told your numbers are full. So you've got three golfers, great businessmen who in a very big way took the sting out of that meeting, but that had precedence before the president’s people. So, madness.Neil De Beer (09:54.776)Guess what I was looking for? Where is Mr. Jonas? So I was sitting, looking at the same show, but speaking to someone and saying, Mcebisi Jonas, the special envoy of South Africa to America, isn't there?We then get told the sob story that he got stuck in London and had other business. No, no, no, he's the special envoy of USA, not UK. I found that very strange until I dug a little bit more and the rumour has it that he was told that it is not good to have him in the Oval Office due to the fact of his previous escapades of lashing of the tongue to Mr. Trump and that's why he wasn't there. So...Chris, then we had the paraphernalia. We had four ministers sitting there not opening their mouth. We had one president sitting there laughing and smirking while people are playing videos of Kill the Boer, Kill the Farmer, him and that other little Troika girl who sat there who still under suspicion of corruption, the Minister in the Presidency, both of them sitting there, wrong body language because they are filmed smirking and laughing while Trump is playing Julius Malema songs. I think that was something that this country's people looked at and went: They are definitely, definitely on the road to a hiding. Chris, the current situation is that they made a massive scenario of saying that they are going to continue with discussions. They loved the meeting. There was no meeting. It was a hiding to hell. It was an absolute slap to us.People that are in there that were supposed to back the president started talking about crime and about things being absolutely out of control, and they want Starlink at every police station in this country, and they would absolutely also love drones. That is what Rupert asked from Elon Musk and from Donald Trump. Chris, this is what we asked for. We admitted that this country...Neil De Beer (12:13.354)….is out of control in crime and we need the United States' help in that. Chris, what a farce. Doesn't help that you unpack it anymore. I just think United States won and SA 0. That's what I think.Chris Steyn (12:28.821)Well, it looks like Elon Musk might now get his way to bring Starlink to South Africa on his terms, but the Economic Freedom Fighters and others are already gearing up to fight that new.Neil De Beer (12:42.146)Ja, are very, very weird that when it suits you, you get terms and when you don't, it doesn't suit you. So this is, I'm telling you now, this thing, and I'm not fighting Elon, absolutely we need it. Better internet, better access, that's fact. So put Starlink and it's matter. What this brings, Chris, is the mere fact that when Oom Piet du Toit, who owns a current trucking company in Welkom, who has currently been supplying the municipality of Welkom for the past 23 years, four services, and was forced to take the BEE partner with no monetary input and without investment. He had to give him 25% of his company and now Oom Piet turn around and goes, what's wrong? What's the difference between me and Elon?So, Chris, don't be surprised if people in this country are going to turn around and if this Starlink deal is done, no matter the consequence or the need, where people are going to get up and say, but this is not fair. This is absolutely horrendous. We as South Africans have to do X and you that come into South African law have to do Y. I think, Chris, great idea, more investment, get them in, but we'll have to start looking at BEE law - and we have to start looking at South African companies that suffer.Chris Steyn (14:01.897)Let's go back to business being present at that meeting, Neil. They seem to be the real power in the room.Neil De Beer (14:11.052)Yeah, no it is. mean, Chris, there's power and there's power. At the end of the day, I was taught by a great mentor, there's only one golden rule on earth, and that is whoever has the gold rules. You know, Chris, looking at that whole charade, because it was embarrassing for us, it looked like we were knocking on a door, bare feet, shorts and a T-shirt and asking the neighbour for an ice cream.We could have done much better. We have some strategic stuff that America needs, and we never took it out. We just sat there and begged at a begging bowl. I was told, and I will want you to listen to this analysis from a very good friend of mine, Stephen, who is also a mentor and has been with me and I go to him for advice. Always good to have a mentor like your are mine, Chris. So I, once a week I meet with Stephen. He is semi-retired, but he's a very influential man in business. And Stephen, who is a known American sympathiser, he's a person that absolutely supports the Trump scenario, you know, he is. I asked him, what do you think will happen? He says, Neil, do you know what will be the greatest insult in that room?I said no, probably like Zelensky, he went no. The greatest insult will happen to Cyril if no one with Donald interacts with Cyril.Neil De Beer (15:57.422)And what happened, Chris? JD Vance, or Vance, the vice president, the Secretary of their Internal Affairs, Elon Musk, not one of them spoke to Cyril Ramaphosa. They just looked. I don't know if you saw Elon's face. Hy wou hom opkerf elke twee sekondes. You know, he was like a lion behind a fence knowing exactly what he wants to do to these guys. So I called Stephen and I said, did you see? He says, yes, it happened. Apparently, that's the greatest insult is if they don't engage with you. So that is it. It was an insult.Chris Steyn (16:40.907)Well, Elon was standing there directing a death gaze at the South African ministers. But I must say I was astonished when Johann Rupert came up with that line about not locking his door at night.Neil De Beer (17:01.44)Utter rubbish. Utter rubbish. can do that in his Graaff Reinet way, but it put a very bad face on the people that are currently not being able to do that. Because we the people that stay in the cities and understand exactly how it is with the crime rates. That was not the status of a man currently being able to speak to people on the ground. Just shows you how far he's divorced stating that he's now building three cottages for his children. What does that got to do with 89 people being murdered a day? What has that got to do with the people that can't afford electric fencing like he can? Bulletproof cars and high gates with security clusters. I thought that was a slap in the face for Mr. Normal SA and I think it was totally untoward. So that was out of place and in my opinion made that oil even hotter for the people in the room.Chris Steyn (17:57.779)Neil, I don't know if you would agree with me, but the South African delegation seemed woefully unprepared. They must have known what was coming. But yet when Donald Trump made mistakes - and he did that a couple of times, got his facts wrong, they did not contradict him. They didn't put anything on the table to refute what he was saying in front of the whole world. They just sat there.Neil De Beer (18:23.222)And the worst is when he asks someone of a foreign country, when showing him a video of our country that he's the president of and he will ask someone, do know where that is? Will you show me where those white crosses are? Shocking! A president doesn't have to know everything. But that thing of those crosses was so plastered over this country. Are you telling me that Cyril's intelligence division, Cyril's communication division, were not prepared for that to come out? Atrocious. Jy weet ek will net vir jou sê ek was deel van ’n wynspan. Chris, do you know what's a wynspan? A wynspan is a rugby team that are mostly of retired old rugby players that come to a Sunday to play in the wynspan, but no one knows what they're to play, who they're going to play, where they're going to play, or what position they're going to play. They just get given a jersey that's available. So you can imagine the fracas on that field when you have an ex-prop trying to play a scrum half. It is an absolute horrific occasion. And that's the only thing that comes into my brain is when I saw them in the Oval Office, I said, maar dis die wynspan. These are people that came here. They knew they're going to get lashed. They didn't know where it's going to come from. But this is a president of a country. You know, this is a person that had staff with him that filled the Boeing. Now, did no one speak to each other? And there's now admittance. There is admittance from certain people in that delegation that they were not ready, that they did not speak to each other. For instance, the golfers were not there and did not prepare what they had to say. You can clearly see they weren't prepared. I think they went off script. And that's what happened. They were not prepared. There's no excuse.Chris Steyn (20:12.255)What did you make of the COSATU women's address to Trump? She was very articulate and...Neil De Beer (20:19.926)No, even more horrific. I mean, she's coming there and telling the country we need investment, but they don't tell you that the ANC wrecked this country to the current 43 % of unemployment. They sit there as if nothing's happening, but they're coming to the begging bowl. I would have rather had Adrienne Gore in that room than what I would have had her, because what did she come and add to the value? Another ice cream and another strawberry Coke? No, it doesn't work that way. This country failed in that meeting because they did not tell the factual oversight of what's happening in this country where we are talking genocide or mass murder, irrespective people are dying. And they must have been forefront and told them our crime in this country is out of control. They didn't do that. They didn't highlight the fact that farmers are under attack as part of the general people that are being murdered and that people who say in this country there are no white farmer attacks in this country, you're lying, there is. But we agree it's across the board. So we're sitting there and we're looking at these people coming there and the lady of COSATU asking that, you know, investment should pour in the current 600 companies of America, give us 500,000 people, but we need to employ more. But they don't tell us about the BEE law. They don't tell us about the laws that are currently favouring the other side of the monopoly that is currently kicking the majority. So no, we missed opportunities there. And they didn't tell the American public and the American President that three quarters, if not 90% of the current SOE failures, looting and stealing is them.So when she presented herself, I wanted to say, jy lieg, you are wrong. Because what are you asking? Another billion from America so that we can have it looted on Tuesday? No Chris, our track record doesn't speak of trust whatsoever. So not impressed.Chris Steyn (22:23.221)So how do you see this going forward now?Neil De Beer (22:26.606)But we've had the meeting. They are fighting for AGOA. They are also presuming, I see there was already a statement that Donald Trump will be at the G20. He didn't acknowledge that. He said he would like to look at it more. If he comes, I would be very much surprised, but I would also be happy because then he could make a statement here and see what's going on. And as you know, the G20 baton is going to be handed over to the U.S. next for presidency.So where we go from now is John, as Agri, the Minister of Trade and Industry, Mr. Patel, the people from Finance and the people of Governance, of Law, because you probably noticed Ronald Lamola did more in that meeting as to add value than what the little green lamp was based on Donald Trump's desk. There was no discussion from Ronald Lamola about it, International relations and he is the previous Minister of Justice. So we're going to have to sharpen our pencils and we're to have to look at exactly because you didn't hear them talk much of Iran, you didn't talk about Hezbollah, we didn't hear about Hamas. Those are still on the table and I don't know how they're going to sort that out.Chris Steyn (23:51.925)Well, we don't know what was discussed behind closed doors, Neil. So I'm sure developments will give us an indication. What can you tell us about the man who was arrested for sending threatening messages directed at the president and the mayor of Cape Town and a CEO?Neil De Beer (24:13.666)Yeah, so just got onto that case. Apparently, our Crime Intelligence entity that looks at State Security, CAT, got a tip from a business CEO that he got a message to say that there are major threats to the lives of, funny enough, the President, but more weird, Geordin Hill-Lewis, the Mayor of Cape Town.So we do understand that that operation started a couple of weeks ago. They started to track this individual and a 28-year old man was then arrested in Germiston two days ago for these threats. He will be charged and I think he appears on Monday in Cape Town because he's been brought down from Joburg to Cape Town to stand trial here as to the fact that Geordin Hill-Lewis and the president, let's call it, resides within the Western Cape scenario. So that's the news we got. It's going to be interesting. But bigger bombshell than that, the dropping in the withdrawal of the case against Malusi Booi that was arrested in the Western Cape as a member of the Cape Town municipality for hundreds and hundreds and millions of apparent fraud was set free on Friday. Now, Chris, provisionally.Neil De Beer (25:43.498)Another failure of the MPA. Because how do you fail to prosecute a case like that? So Chris, there we are. Another win for blatant NPA failure and for prosecution. Another probably three, five, eight, 10 million rand spent on a case and nothing came out of it. So we go back to what we say. We need a better NPA. We need a better prosecuting authority. You know, that's where we are.Chris Steyn (26:14.623)Neil, I know you're tired and you need to rest, but before I let you go, there anything else that I might have missed?Neil De Beer (26:22.178)No, I think it was the Cyril week. I think it was the absolute Trump raid. And let's see what comes from this. Chris America and South Africa need each other in certain strategic partnerships. And like it or don't like it, don't like Trump, don't like Cyril. I'm talking about the people of South Africa needing a good financial break for change. And that's what we need. So it's not about talking bad to people. It's about trying to find the best solution. But don't be arrogant. Don't go unprepared and don't think that anybody owes us anything. And I think that's what I take away from this week.Chris Steyn (26:56.267)Thank you, that was Neil De Beer, the president of the United Independent Movement, bravely on the Sunday show with me, Christine. Thank you, Neil.Neil De Beer (27:07.298)Thanks, Chris, always for the opportunity and Godspeed, everybody, and see you next Sunday. Bye.

Neil de Beer: SA’s “hiding to hell” in a week of international political intrigue - and domestic drama

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