Juanita Du Preez: Mchunu, Mkhwanazi, Masemola, Matlala, Mashatile…

The fusion of crime and South African politics remains in the headlines. In her latest interview with Chris Steyn, Action Society's National Spokesperson, Juanita du Preez, comments on Special Leave Police Minister Senzo Mchunu resuming his duties as a member of the African National Congress (ANC) NEC; KwaZulu-Natal Provincial Commissioner General Nhlanhla Mkhwanazi being reappointed for another five-year term; National Police Commissioner General Fannie Masemola being summoned to appear before Parliament to explain whether he had been warned about a R360 million tender fraud; the allegedly “Dirty Dozen” cops in the dock in connection with Cat Matlala’s tender fraud; and the trial of Deputy President Paul Mashatile’s “Blue Light Mafia” members for assaulting members of the public..Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox every morning on weekdays. Register here.Support South Africa's bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here.If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here..Watch here.Listen here.Edited transcript of the interview.Chris Steyn (00:01.334)The fusion of crime and South African politics remains in the headlines. I speak to Action Society's National Spokesperson, Juanita du Preez. Welcome, Juanita Juanita Du Preez (00:15.042)Hi there, Chris. Thank you for having me. Chris Steyn (00:17.6)We haven't spoken in a while. A lot has happened. A lot is happening. Special Leave Police Minister Senzo Mchunu is resuming his duties as a member of the African National Congress NEC. Juanita Du Preez (00:33.902)That's, it's quite telling for me that he is suspended as a Police Minister, but he can resume his duties as part of the ANC's top body. It's really telling. It really does show the country how they feel about people who are so involved, who are...in crime, in corruption, in everything that is going wrong in this country. So either it's they don't care and or they I think they just don't care. They will just do stuff the way they want to and it doesn't matter. But we've seen this before. People being reinstated after serving time. And I'm not talking about the previous, you know, other crimes. It is recent crimes and they just reinstated… it's just like well the the government will deal with you but us as a party we don't… Chris Steyn (01:38.39)Well, meanwhile, KwaZulu-Natal Provincial Commissioner Nhlanhla Mkhwanazi has been reappointed for another five-year term. Juanita Du Preez (01:55.714)Yes, that's good news. It's the guy who's showing that he's getting stuff done. KZN is really one of the places where we do see the crime stats climbing and especially the more serious crimes - if you look at the police's crime stats. So that's good news. And I hope he stays the hero that he is for a lot of people. I do hope that he continues the way he spoke and the idea that we got about him. I do hope that we were not wrong.…I read an interview where he said he told his family is only going to do one term, but then they asked him and explained to him how important it would be - and then he spoke to the family and decided, okay, we'll do another five year term. So I really do think the guy's heart is in the police and in the safety of South Africans. So let's see if it really does bring a different crime stat picture over the next five years. Chris Steyn (03:16.62)Now, National Police Commissioner Fannie Masemola has been summoned to appear before Parliament to explain whether he had been warned about a R360 million tender fraud. Juanita Du Preez (03:33.836)Yeah, throughout the Commission and the Ad Hoc committees testimonies and questioning and it... we got the idea that he was one of the good guys, one of the ones who was fighting against the corruption. With the summons that came, it really doesn't already say he is guilty. That's why he was not arrested, he was just summoned. But from the reporting that came out after that, it does seem that he did know and he didn't act as soon as he should have. It's just reporting and I believe the place where I read those reports are actually people who really do their homework.But let's see what's coming out here because if what was reported is the truth, then he should walk the same way as his minister who was suspended and not be reinstated because we need people who are 100% above board from the top down to the boots on the ground. The police are the people that really have to have integrity and they have to have the best in terms of safety on their mind 24/7 for South Africans. It is not about them. It is about the country and it is about the citizens of this country. And throughout this process, what we do hope is that we see transparency in the court case in all the other people who were arrested, we want to see the transparency and we then want to see consequences. If it is proven that somebody did something wrong and we want to see the consequences and the consequences should match the crime that was committed because otherwise the trust in police is just not where it should be. Actually I listened to… Juanita Du Preez (05:51.223)…an interview of Minister Feroz Cachalia, acting minister… we also see the trust in police is something that they really want to work on. He really does strike me like someone who takes his time to look at things, to work it out - and he works a lot behind the scenes. I don't know. I've tried to ask other people and so on, and it feels like other people have the same idea of him. But the things that he's saying, it really does make me believe that he is going to be a great police minister and he's really going to change, transparency, trust - and he says the agenda reset or he's following the reset agenda. We want to go even further and say we have to do a system reset, change of system actually, not just a reset because the system, it's not working. And obviously this is an ANC.. principle. So obviously, if you're part of the ANC and if you're an ANC minister, then you have to follow those principles. So we would like him to push further and to see further than the ANC principles of centralization. It's obviously not working. Decentralization has been working and which then includes public private partnerships has been working in other industries in other departments. So we really want to see them going in that direction and that means not agenda reset. It means agenda new system… Chris Steyn (07:53.164)Talking about consequences, we have seen the allegedly Dirty Dozen cops in the dock in connection with the Cat Matlala tender fraud. Juanita Du Preez (08:05.208)Yeah, it's good. That's what we want to see. We want to see these people who, through investigation, whose names came up, we want to see them in court stating their case. And then we want to, I want to believe that we will get the truth from that. And then they need to face the consequences. If some of them were not as involved or were or are being made scapegoats, then I do hope it comes out in the court case. Because we have seen throughout this whole Commission and everything, actually even before that, people just…the scapegoating - let's make that a word - is rife. Everybody will throw each other under the bus with no thought of them or the relationship you had with them previously. It's every man or woman for themselves. So, and I hope this is not the case, that there is not one scapegoat who is actually innocent in this situation. I do hope that the real people are the ones who are going to face the consequences. Chris Steyn (09:16.799)You have been keeping a close watch on the trial of Deputy President Paul Mashatile Blue Light Mafia members. Juanita Du Preez (09:26.402)Yes, we were in court last week again. The previous time it was just the decision about the 174 application. So 174 is when after the State brought the side of the story, then the defense can bring a 174 application to say there's not enough evidence to continue. Luckily, the court found that most of the charges….here is enough evidence for it. It can continue. So this is what happened this past week. So the defense is an interesting guy. And I'm not ever sure, is it just the way he's playing it? Or is that really, he seems a bit confused at times. But I think it's just, he's just playing it. So he.. there's eight accused and usually you would start with accused number one and go your way to accused number eight. So he started with accused number seven. And then when the State asked why… because I prepared in a chronological order, he said, no, because I'm going to do it in a certain sequence, the sequence of events that happened. So it does make sense. I understand his narrative, how he's going to do that. So that continued.And it was, so accused number seven is one of the drivers. It was quite interesting to understand how the VIP protocols work. And they explained that there is the lead car, the pilot car, the...back-up car one, back-up car two, and then there is the… vehicle, and then also the main car, and they keep a certain formation, and everybody's got their role. They even explained in court how in the … car, that was the one that they were talking about, they sit like this back to back when they're in the car so that they can have a full view of what's going on around them. Juanita Du Preez (11:35.599)And it was interesting to see how they are trained to move and all of that. And he explained it with, obviously they couldn't bring cars into the court, so they used cell phones to explain what the situation was in that case, according to them, how it happened and how they blocked him off and so on and so forth. And I have to say, I don't think that part was wrong. They did what they were trained to do. They saw a guy coming too close. They told him to move away. He then moved away. He was going too fast, according to them. So they boxed him off like they were trained. For me, it is what happened after that. If they just pulled him aside and said, listen, this is a VIP. This is not the right way to do it, then that would have been fine. But they…which they obviously deny. Another accused said they showed him that video that went viral after the incident and where it is obvious to every single person who saw it that they are kicking the guy lying on the ground. And he said, the State asked him, so can you see the kicking? And he said, I see legs moving. You would not admit that it's kicking. And then he said, can you see the guy lying unconscious on the ground? And he said, no, I see a person that's maybe asleep. This is the driver of the car who was just driving and apparently he's sleeping next to the road.So, it doesn't really make sense. Chris Steyn (15:38.399)Thank you. That was Juanita du Preez, the National Spokesperson for Action Society on BizNews with me, Chris Steyn

Juanita Du Preez: Mchunu, Mkhwanazi, Masemola, Matlala, Mashatile…

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