Gayton McKenzie: From a prisoner in chains to a popular politician to a possible president…

At the end of a dramatic election year, Sports, Arts and Culture Minister Gayton McKenzie gives BizNews an insider's view of the Government of National Unity (GNU) and its future – and reminds viewers of what an alternative government with the Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF) and MKP would be like right now. He speaks candidly about his relationships with some of the country's top leaders and politicians, including President Cyril Ramaphosa, Democratic Alliance (DA) Federal Chair Helen Zille, and African National Congress (ANC) Gauteng Premier Panyaza Lesufi. His mantra is one of "country first, party second", but he is hugely proud of his Patriotic Alliance (PA) being the fastest growing party with three by-election wins in a row. The Minister also shares his plans for bringing some of the world's top sporting events to South Africa. Lastly, the former prisoner – who has been voted the third most popular politician in the country and whose army of supporters on social media wants to see him as South Africa's next president – leaves the nation with a deeply inspirational message for the festive season..Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox at 5:30am weekdays. Register here..The seventh BizNews Conference, BNC#7, is to be held in Hermanus from March 11 to 13, 2025. The 2025 BizNews Conference is designed to provide an excellent opportunity for members of the BizNews community to interact directly with the keynote speakers, old (and new) friends from previous BNC events – and to interact with members of the BizNews team. Register for BNC#7 here..Watch here.Listen here.Edited transcript of the Interview.___STEADY_PAYWALL___.Chris Steyn (00:01.816)We are coming to the end of a long and dramatic election year. So it's a good time to catch up with the very popular Minister of Sports, Arts and Culture, the one and only Mr. Gayton McKenzie. Welcome, Minister..Gayton McKenzie (00:17.936)Thank you, thank you. Probably in some quarters. You must just put it—some quarters. Thank you, thank you. Thanks for having me, and thanks to your listeners..Chris Steyn (00:22.635)We'll talk about that..Chris Steyn (00:29.656)Well, before I ask you to give the nation a festive message of hope, I do have a couple of political questions. The first one being the Democratic Alliance's Federal Chair, Ms. Helen Zille, saying that we don't have a Government of National Unity but a coalition government. How do you view that?.Gayton McKenzie (00:50.928)Listen, Helen is just Helen. Helen is like a Karen. They should change the word "Karen" to "Helen"—say you're being a Helen. Helen is annoying. But Helen is also not getting a fair shake. If you look at the things Helen says, Helen is not the only one saying those things. Blade Nzimande is saying it. Gwede Mantashe is saying it. But whenever Helen says it, the roof must come down. There's a lot of people saying what Helen is saying, but then everybody presses on Helen's button..Gayton McKenzie (01:22.114)I mean, look at what they are saying. Blade Nzimande said he doesn't agree with the GNU. My question is, why is he still there? It says more about him. I mean, the day I come to not be in agreement with the GNU is the day I walk. And I'm saying that he's not the only one who says that..I am a member of the GNU. We take decisions. We serve under the president of the country, President Cyril Ramaphosa, and we are all happy. I mean, people who say this is a coalition, this isn't a Government of National Unity—there's the PAC, the ANC, the IFP, the UDM. What do you think these people are doing there? You think they're Casper the Ghost? Those are people; those are leaders. Madness..Chris Steyn (02:12.154)Talking about Mr. Nzimande, the South African Communist Party now wanting to contest the municipal elections independently from the African National Congress—how's that going to work out for them, Gayton?.Gayton McKenzie (02:24.802)Listen, they make me think of those workers who tell you every week, "I'm leaving this month. This is my last month. I've had it with this job. I'm done. I'm out of here." And then they get a long-service award after 30 years working for the same company. That's the SACP..Let me tell you, Chris, they've been saying this forever. I don't know who still believes them. When they want the ANC's attention, they say, "We're leaving." I'm telling you, they will find some sort of compromise. That's just what they do. If they don't want the GNU….Imagine this: one thing that everybody seems to be missing. Let's say, for instance, the ANC went with the EFF and MK. Those people don't speak at the moment. Those people insult each other at the moment. Those people are like the PA and the DA pre-election days. It's World War III there. Now, those people—imagine if they were in government and Floyd walked over to the MK party. Imagine. And we have mild arguments. I mean, like, we're still cruising very nicely..Chris Steyn (03:33.562)Talking about cruising very nicely, you're very much an insider. What is the atmosphere like in the cabinet at the moment? What kind of vibe are you getting?.Gayton McKenzie (03:46.288)I think the first thing people must understand is that cameras are very dangerous for politicians. When we see cameras, we become rottweilers, pit bulls. And when the cameras are gone, we are the sweetest little chihuahuas talking to each other..In the cabinet, there are no cameras. There's collegiality. The president told us all he's not running a… He doesn't have ANC ministers or DA ministers or PA ministers. He's got Cabinet ministers. And truth be told, he's running with a steady hand. He listens to everybody. The relationship there is just great among us..People asked me in London the other day—I had lunch there with a few billionaires who wanted to ask me about the GNU—and they asked me, "Do you think the GNU is going to last?" I said, "Yes, it's going to last." They said, "Why do you say so?" I said, "Because I don't think we particularly like each other in the GNU. But I know we damn hate the ones that are not part of the GNU. We've got more love for each other than we have for the ones that aren't part of the GNU.".And on that basis alone, it's going to last. I think the GNU is the best thing that could have happened to this country. If you don't like the GNU, all right, that's fine. We're not ice cream. Not everybody's going to like us. But I'm thinking it's good for South Africa. Investor confidence is back. People want to move back into the country. People have renewed hope. And I mean, look at sports—we're winning everything. Our winning is really getting out of hand..Read more: DiData protagonists in second dodgy deal attempt at time of Campus 'BEE transaction'.Chris Steyn (05:44.666)But there is the fact of the factions in the African National Congress. And I'm just wondering how big a threat that could be to the GNU. If we look at how Gauteng Premier Mr. Panyaza Lesufi, who is openly defiant of the GNU at times, and who apparently seems to have the backing of Deputy President Paul Mashatile—what is your take on that?.Gayton McKenzie (06:13.520)I don't really believe that. Let me tell you, I know Panyaza very well. There are people even in my party who don't like the GNU. In every party, there are people who don't like the GNU, and people have a right to say if they don't like something. But people toe the line. The ANC has said we go with the GNU, and they will follow the line..In my party, there are people who don't like the GNU, but we have taken a decision that we will be part of the GNU because they are party loyalists; they are disciplined. So, I just think the issue of Panyaza has been taken out of context. I can tell you now, Panyaza Lesufi is an ANC man through and through. He's many things he's not, but an ANC man he is..And one thing about an ANC man or woman—if you are ANC, you follow the line. If you are PA, you follow the party line. If you are DA, you follow the party line. That's just how it works..So, I don't think Panyaza Lesufi is as big a threat as people make him out to be. I speak to him. He has praised the GNU at times. He has spoken to me about the GNU. I do think he doesn't really like it. I don't think he likes the DA..But this is not about who likes what. I don't like Helen Zille, and Helen Zille doesn't like me. Let's be honest. Every opportunity she gets to speak to people—whether she's asking them for money or speaking to investors—she talks about how corrupt I am. She's even spoken to friends of mine in Cape Town about me. And I don't speak well of her in her absence either..But I don't get angry because I can put the country first. We've got to put the country first. President Ramaphosa and I didn't have a good relationship, but he looked past the hate we had for each other and put the country first by putting me in his Cabinet. That's a fact. You have to put the country first now, and that's what we must do..It's not about what Panyaza wants. Panyaza is not the president of the country. Panyaza is not the leader of the ANC. And I do think that people sometimes just hate Panyaza and will say things about him that aren't entirely true. He has a right to have an opinion, just like Helen Zille has a right to have an opinion..Helen Zille is just another version of Panyaza. But they want Helen to be able to say stuff, and Panyaza and others can't say stuff? If you want freedom of speech, let Helen Zille talk and let Panyaza talk. The center is holding in the GNU..Chris Steyn (08:47.034)Now, you probably heard on my Sunday show that the knives are out for you. Why? What's the backstory? Are you too popular?.Gayton McKenzie (08:59.504)No, let me tell you something. The only knives that are out for me are to cut the cake for me to eat. That is the only knife. There's no such thing. Let me explain something to you: in the ANC—and I'm not beholden to the ANC—I serve at the behest of the President of South Africa. Why would he or anyone else in his party try to sabotage me?.If they don't want me, they can reshuffle me. That is a fact. They don't need to plan or plot against me. They decide. I serve at the behest of the President, and if he feels he doesn't want me, he doesn't need to plot or plan how to get rid of me; it's a simple call..Do you know the President called me a week ago as a party leader to inform me? He said, "Minister McKenzie, I'm just calling to inform you that I'm going to reshuffle the Cabinet.".I thought, wow, so quickly? And he burst out laughing. Because it's his prerogative. I serve at his behest. So, when people say they've got their knives out for me, they don't need to do that. If they don't want me, I'm out..My party slogan is Baiza Nie, and with me, Ek baiza nie. If they don't want me, I'm out. They don't even need to remove me. They will just tell me that they don't want me. I'm giving my best for South Africans. I put South Africa before my party..That's why I work so hard. And I see a lot of leaders in the ANC and DA doing the same. For me, if today they feel I'm too popular, they don't need to plot. They can just tell me, and I'll resign. Then I'll see them in 2029..Chris Steyn (10:52.314)So, which ministry did you think President Ramaphosa was going to give you?.Gayton McKenzie (10:58.958)I thought he was going to kick me out. No, no, I just… I love it here. I love it here at Sport. I think there's so much we can do..I look at this country and want to tell South Africans: the problem is that we underestimate ourselves. South Africa is a great country with great people and great ideas. I'm at a stage where I think we've got to build this country..Gayton McKenzie (11:27.854)The GNU has given us this opportunity. I get it wrong sometimes. Helen Zille gets it wrong. President Ramaphosa gets it wrong. But as long as we don't give up, we must continue building..If he wants to move me, I'll ask if I can stay to finish what I've started. We want to bring the Olympics, F1, UFC, volleyball, and tennis. There's so much to fix, like hockey and soccer VAR. I've set milestones for 2025, and I'd love to see them achieved..Read more: RW Johnson: Second-level thinking on what's happening in Israel, Middle East.Chris Steyn (12:16.971)I was just going to ask you: what are your biggest plans for your portfolio next year?.Gayton McKenzie (12:23.536)Bringing the UFC here—Dricus' next fight. Dricus is definitely going to win in Australia. Dricus gaan daai man moer. He will win, and we hope his next fight with Khamzat will be in South Africa..We also aim to bring F1 in 2027 and the 2036 Olympics. I want us to host festivals like Coachella, Tomorrowland, and Burning Man—100,000-person events in South Africa..Additionally, we need to ensure actors and creators are paid and recognized as workers. In 2025, I want to focus on that..South Africa is a great nation in sports and arts. We top two of the three big sports—soccer, cricket, and rugby. South Africa is a great country. Let's build it together..Gayton McKenzie (12:59.872)I want to tell everyone to have a great festive season. Next year, this country will rise like a rocket..The GNU excites me. I see the plans being presented to the President at Cabinet meetings. People from the DA and ANC have great ideas to prosper the country. Government is being reimagined, and so must our country..For those calling the GNU a sellout position, maybe their stomachs have been sold out. But the country hasn't been sold out. Those who genuinely care about South Africa's interests will support the GNU..Gayton McKenzie (14:49.348)People love the GNU. You know, I said to the President the other day, and he laughed when I said it, that they lie about me. They're telling a big lie about me. I said, "President Mbeki and President Ramaphosa, people are lying about me. They say I'm happy to be part of the GNU. That's a lie. I'm not happy. I'm very happy." They mustn't lie about me. I'm very happy. I'm not happy just because I'm part of the GNU; I'm happy because I love this country. This country has given me a second chance, and now I have the chance to give back to it..Chris Steyn (15:16.186)Well, you must be very happy, though, that your party, the Patriotic Alliance, has won three by-elections in a row..Gayton McKenzie (15:23.600)Oh yes, you know, we are the fastest-growing party at the moment in South Africa. And not just by talking; you know, people talk, saying, "Yeah, we're the fastest." But come in the ring, come in the ring! We are in the ring, and every time, we're the champions. We've won three by-elections in a row..We are humble about it. We know it's hard work. The people are working hard on the ground, and they can see that we put this country first. We don't put our party first; we put South Africa first..I just think we need to understand one thing: our parties can die, but South Africa must survive. If South Africa dies, our parties will mean nothing. We should never put party before country. Salute..Chris Steyn (16:13.406)One last thing, Gayton. What message would you like to give to the nation? Please recount your own journey from where you've come to where you are today, in an inspirational message for our viewers..Gayton McKenzie (16:28.484)I was actually thinking about this this morning. I remember being in jail, and the one thing I'll never forget is the long corridors I would walk, with chains on my legs. It was extremely difficult to walk those corridors with chains..This morning, I was walking with the President of Angola down the long corridor at Freedom Park, and I thought, "Wow, I've truly come a long way." Those corridors reminded me of jail. Back then, I was in chains, and today, I'm walking next to a President..I have truly been blessed. This country has given me a second chance in life, and I love it deeply. For me, I'm an example to everyone who has been in conflict with the law. You can change your life. You can become better. Crime doesn't pay, no matter who you are..If you ask me what I regret the most, it's the path I took when I was young. I could have done so much more with my life. But I also want to say to everyone listening: no matter what you're facing, you can change. Some of you have never been to jail, but you are in a jail of jealousy, a jail of hatred, a jail of not believing in yourself, or a jail of being scared to be great..We all have these invisible bars. I want to say to people: break those bars of fear. Whatever you fear becomes your prison. If you can break those bars, you'll be free. I had to break mine and say, "Never again. I'm going to be a better person.".So whatever it is you want to be, or whatever it is you fear, break those bars, look forward, and go for it..Chris Steyn (18:11.046)Thank you. That was the Minister of Sports, Arts, and Culture, Mr. Gayton McKenzie, speaking to BizNews. Thank you, Minister..Read also.BizNews Briefing – Bitcoin's Promise, Israel ends Syria's military capacity, Trump to run economy on XMinister de Lille slams O.R. Tambo "absolute chaos"; clears visa path for Indian tourism and businessMusk and Milei's public sector disruption: Innovation or risk? – Adrian Wooldridge

Gayton McKenzie: From a prisoner in chains to a popular politician to a possible president…

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