Listen here.Geordin Hill-Lewis says he has the best job in South African politics - and he's not giving it up. The DA leader explains why he's staying on as Cape Town mayor, tackles criticism of DA ministers, outlines bold plans to build a city detective branch, and shares his vision for expanding the party nationally. From crime and governance to coalition politics and election strategy, Hill-Lewis offers a candid assessment of South Africa's challenges - and the opportunities he believes lie ahead..Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox every morning on weekdays. Register here.Support South Africa's bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here.If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here..Edited transcript of the interview.00:00:06:23 - 00:00:32:15Alec Hogg:Geordin Hill-Lewis has got his correct regalia on today for the Bafana Bafana game this evening. Whenever you might be watching this, there's a lot of anticipation. We're hoping that our boys are going to go quite a long way in the World Cup coming up. But I think people in the Democratic Alliance are hoping that their boy – and that's their leader, the thirty-something leader – will be going a long way as well.00:00:32:17 - 00:00:52:17Alec Hogg:He, however, is going to stand again as Mayor of Cape Town. I suppose that's the question we should start with. There's a heck of a lot to talk to you about, but let's start with the politics of it: the decision to stay in Cape Town and have another term as Mayor of Cape Town, rather than moving on to a national stage.00:00:52:19 - 00:01:22:06Geordin Hill-Lewis:Alec, it's a pleasure to speak to you again, and thanks for the invitation.Firstly, I absolutely love this job. This is one of the most meaningful, purposeful and fulfilling jobs in politics in South Africa – and in life, I think. So I love the job, and there's a very personal reason.00:01:22:08 - 00:01:41:21Geordin Hill-Lewis:There's a political reason as well. I think it's healthy that I have some distance between myself and the Cabinet. When you sit around the Cabinet table, it is just true, by definition, that there is some deference owed to the person sitting at the head of the table. He is the head of the Cabinet, he appoints the Cabinet, he swears you in, and so on.00:01:41:23 - 00:01:49:22Geordin Hill-Lewis:So I think that distance is healthy. It gives me the freedom to say when we disagree strongly with something, and there will be lots of those occasions.00:01:50:17 - 00:02:08:05Geordin Hill-Lewis:We've seen some of those already, and I have to be able to feel free to stretch my arms and show a bit of muscle. So I think that's better politically as well.00:02:08:05 - 00:02:33:02Geordin Hill-Lewis:There's a third reason, just very briefly: a practical reason. Every single government department in South Africa is broken, completely shattered and destroyed by years of ANC mismanagement, misrule and corruption. If you go there, you have to apply yourself intensively to fixing that and rebuilding it from the ground up, brick by brick.00:02:33:02 - 00:02:50:10Geordin Hill-Lewis:That is a very intensive job. I have the luxury here – and I'm very aware of that blessing – that we have a very successful city. It's a very functional city. Of course, there are problems. There's lots of work to be done. I'm not saying there's nothing to do.00:02:50:10 - 00:03:03:05Geordin Hill-Lewis:But at least I trust the people here. I know they're not trying to actively undermine me at every corner. They're not trying to trip me up. They're actually trying to do a good job and get out there and deliver. That is a much stronger and firmer platform on which to stand.00:03:03:07 - 00:03:29:07Alec Hogg:I was looking at the Joburg budget this week and spent a lot of time on it. What jumped out at me was that they're spending as much on all of their capital expenditure as you're putting into the MyCiTi expansion project alone. It's like different universes now.So you really do have probably the plum portfolio in South African politics, if you work it through that way.00:03:29:08 - 00:03:49:10Geordin Hill-Lewis:I really believe that is true.I joke with the President and say that I have the best job in South African politics, but it's only half a joke. I really do think it is true. We have a wonderful team here. They are dedicated people. They are honest. They are professionals. That is a huge privilege to work with them.00:03:49:12 - 00:04:09:05Geordin Hill-Lewis:And you are right, I saw that comparison as well. That is not even our largest capital project, by the way. That's only our second- or third-largest capital project, and it's bigger than the entire City of Johannesburg capital budget.The scale of chronic underinvestment there is quite terrifying.00:04:09:07 - 00:04:34:09Alec Hogg:It also shows what happens when you do govern a place properly, even in South Africa. Because often they say we can't make it happen in South Africa, but you're showing it in Cape Town.The other thing that struck me while preparing for this discussion was how much balance you have to maintain. You're balancing Cape Town against your national responsibilities with the DA.00:04:34:11 - 00:04:59:01Alec Hogg:You've got to balance a lot of the historical imbalances that one sees in Cape Town with how you keep a modern city moving into the future. And you have to balance a growing number of critics who are looking at your party, especially John Steenhuisen at the moment.How are you reading all of that? Because he is certainly attracting a lot of fire.00:05:02:10 - 00:05:24:14Geordin Hill-Lewis:And I have to balance family life. Those pictures that you can see in the background are the most important parts – the little girl who painted those for me, and her mum, my wife. Those are the most important parts.I've got to balance that as well. So there's a lot of balancing, and that is a very steep learning curve for me at the moment.00:05:24:14 - 00:05:58:06Geordin Hill-Lewis:I'm only seven weeks into the job now, but it's been really tough trying to find that balance.Obviously this is an election year, so what naturally happens is that government work slows down a lot and campaign work picks up significantly. I think it'll settle into a campaign rhythm over the next month or six weeks or so, where most politicians in South Africa will be doing little else but campaigning.00:05:58:06 - 00:06:29:04Geordin Hill-Lewis:Then there's the balance of the sheer volume and focus of media scrutiny and the endless parsing and dissection of every word.It's hard to have a light-hearted moment online without someone pulling it apart in ten different ways. So all of those things I'm having to get used to.There's going to be a lot of criticism of what we do.00:06:29:05 - 00:07:12:15Geordin Hill-Lewis:I'm reasonably sanguine about it. You can't be completely sanguine and just ignore it. You have to see whether there is a kernel of truth in the criticism.But there are also an enormous number of people who do nothing all day except take potshots, throw stones, fire arrows, post online comments and, increasingly, produce this terrible AI slop online.If I focused on that too much, I would become completely reactive and might get down in the dumps about things.00:07:12:17 - 00:07:40:05Geordin Hill-Lewis:I'm generally quite an optimistic and positive person. I like to focus on fixing things and on the work ahead.So the balance is determining whether there is a kernel of truth that I need to take from criticism and work on, or whether it's simply people who are only interested in shouting, screaming, pulling you down, insulting you or whatever. In that case, it has to be water off a duck's back.00:07:40:07 - 00:08:11:15Geordin Hill-Lewis:That balance is also a learning curve for me. I'm sure I've already got it wrong occasionally, and I'm sure I'll get it wrong many more times to come.My overall impression – and I just want to come to these specific ministers for a second – is one of enormous bravery and courage. They are going into a system that is completely broken.00:08:11:15 - 00:08:52:19Geordin Hill-Lewis:Alec, you've got departments of thousands of people who are either militantly anti-DA and actively trying to trip you up at every corner, or corrupt and trying to use every contract to skim off the top and figure out what they can get out of it.Of course, there are also professionals who take their jobs seriously and are trying to do a good thing. But they have been so browbeaten after years of cadre deployment, ideological government and refusal to heed evidence in policymaking that they are simply cowed.00:08:52:21 - 00:09:17:02Geordin Hill-Lewis:The operating environment is indescribably tough.Then you've got to go into that system as a kind of cherry on top of this rotten cadre-deployment cake and try to make a change, try to fix it. It is really tough going.So actually, I feel admiration.00:09:17:04 - 00:09:39:09Geordin Hill-Lewis:Of course they're going to get things wrong. They will, they have, and they will again.I think my job should be to give them a lot of forward cover, but also to make very clear what my expectations are.They must demonstrate the DA difference.00:09:39:11 - 00:09:53:04Geordin Hill-Lewis:The public must be able to clearly see what that difference is – that we have a different philosophy.We are the party of the market economy, liberal individual protections and rights, and all that comes with that. We must demonstrate that at all times in government.00:09:53:06 - 00:10:11:12Alec Hogg:It's got to be hard for you, though, because John Steenhuisen has been a friend, apart from being a colleague, for a long time.From every quarter, he has not been shining of late, particularly with the whole foot-and-mouth disease crisis. Or do you have a different view on that?00:10:11:14 - 00:10:38:16Geordin Hill-Lewis:Let's look at the fundamentals. Let's try to put aside the noise and look at the fundamentals.We do have 14 million vaccines in the country.What I think many people don't quite understand is that agriculture is largely run at a provincial level. Once the vaccines come into the funnel at the top, they are funnelled down to the provinces and have to be distributed by the provincial agricultural departments.00:10:38:21 - 00:11:03:08Geordin Hill-Lewis:And there, of course, is another layer of collapse, mismanagement and failed capacity.But we do have 14 million vaccines in the country. I think we're now either on the cusp of, or beyond, 40% of the country's herd being vaccinated, and that number is growing.Exports have just started to flow again, albeit at a trickle.00:11:03:08 - 00:11:32:09Geordin Hill-Lewis:But that is an achievement. Exports are flowing again for meat products.Outside of the foot-and-mouth disease space, the rest of the agricultural economy is actually booming. We saw the GDP figures just yesterday or two days ago, which showed that agriculture is the fastest-growing part of the South African economy.00:11:32:09 - 00:11:56:09Geordin Hill-Lewis:Now, to be fair, the South African economy is not growing nearly fast enough. But the growth it is achieving is primarily coming from agriculture.That's because of expanded markets, new fruit exports, new citrus exports and so on.So let's be honest about the other side of the balance sheet.00:11:56:11 - 00:12:29:16Geordin Hill-Lewis:There has been a lot of media fighting. There's been a lot of what we call in Afrikaans bekgeveg – mouth-fighting, verbal fights, and a lot of strong personalities.I don't think any of that has been helpful.I hope it comes to a swift and immediate end and that we focus on the positive work of getting vaccines down to the farmers who desperately need them, getting this industry up and running again, and getting our exports flowing again.00:12:29:18 - 00:12:43:21Alec Hogg:Geordin, you mentioned those bekgevegte. I don't know what's going on between yourselves, the DA and Frans Cronje, but he has not been holding back of late. Where does that all come from?00:12:43:23 - 00:13:17:04Geordin Hill-Lewis:To be honest with you, I really don't know.I've reached out to him and we'll have a conversation. But I don't know whether it's an exercise in audience-building. I really don't know. Everything I say now would just be conjecture.But it is unfortunate.We face incredible odds trying to achieve change in a system where the odds are absolutely piled against you.00:13:17:04 - 00:13:46:02Geordin Hill-Lewis:You're dealing with a system where the philosophy and ideology are basically outright militant socialism and anti-DA.To achieve change is a hard thing.I expect incoming fire. I totally expect incoming fire from my opponents on the left.00:13:46:04 - 00:14:05:02Geordin Hill-Lewis:They can bring everything they've got, and I'm very happy to return it.But it's a surprise when it comes from people who are liberals and people who have been on the right side of most arguments for a very long time.So I'll have that conversation with him. As I said, I haven't yet.00:14:11:02 - 00:14:15:21Alec Hogg:And the Pieter Groenewald spat, as it were?00:14:15:22 - 00:14:42:15Geordin Hill-Lewis:Well, the fact of the matter is this.As we speak, Alec, there are 29,000 criminals – many of them violent criminals – whom the state cannot find.They have disappeared from the system. They're parolees, but they have disappeared from the system.We all know the statistics on recidivism and reoffending. They are extremely high.00:14:42:17 - 00:15:06:00Geordin Hill-Lewis:So this is a public safety risk.Now, it is true that many of those people have been missing for years and years.But imagine if I said to you, or if Leon Schreiber, the Minister of Home Affairs, said to you that because most illegal immigrants in South Africa arrived before he became minister, he doesn't have a responsibility to do anything about it.That would be an unreasonable argument. A ridiculous argument.00:15:06:02 - 00:15:32:12Geordin Hill-Lewis:Regardless of when the matter arose, we need a plan.This is a serious crime issue, and that's really the only point I was making.I had no intention of making it personal.But it is a serious crime issue that I think our country has to talk about.00:15:32:14 - 00:16:07:19Geordin Hill-Lewis:Given what we know about recidivism, this is a major risk to the public.I'd like to know what the plan is to find as many of those 29,000 people as possible – at least the violent ones. Let's start there – and bring them back before the law.So perhaps it was unfortunate, but I think it was interpreted as me trying to have a go at him personally, when in fact I was trying to put the spotlight on crime in South Africa and how out of control it is.00:16:07:19 - 00:16:33:21Geordin Hill-Lewis:And what we need to do in all aspects of the criminal justice system to get it under control.Crime is now, to my mind, as big an issue as the economy and unemployment in South Africa.It is absolutely mission-critical that we start turning the tide.We're far from that at the moment. We're going backwards because of all the leadership crises within SAPS.That's why I want to keep talking about this issue.00:16:36:23 - 00:17:04:07Alec Hogg:It's quite incredible.The Madlanga Commission certainly gives us a lot of focus on how bad things really are.But you've been very good in your five years as Mayor of Cape Town at taking opportunities and applying them through the devolution of power – just forcing through devolution of power.On the crime side, is there more that you can do, or intend to do?00:17:04:08 - 00:17:15:12Alec Hogg:You've done a lot on electricity, and we've spoken about that at length over the years.But what about crime?Is this something you can do more on in Cape Town and perhaps provide a template for the rest of the country?00:17:15:13 - 00:17:33:13Geordin Hill-Lewis:The answer is yes, and I think it's becoming more urgent.The conclusion I've come to is that unless we fix the detective branch in South Africa, we won't turn the tide on crime.Rebuilding SAPS is, I think, going to be a ten-year project – maybe a fifteen-year project.00:17:33:15 - 00:17:54:13Geordin Hill-Lewis:SAPS, like all those other departments, has crumbled.But the thing that actually delivers convictions – the thing that gets a criminal off the streets and into prison – is a good detective and a good investigation that leads to a conviction.We've done a huge study in Cape Town. I've published the results and I'm going to present them to Parliament as well.00:17:54:13 - 00:18:15:14Geordin Hill-Lewis:We conducted a study of every gun that our officers have taken off the streets in Cape Town.It was a mammoth exercise.We went through the courts and checked where every one of those cases stood.We found a shocking result: 95% of those cases had gone nowhere.00:18:15:19 - 00:18:36:09Geordin Hill-Lewis:Only 5% had led to a conviction.Either they had been dismissed because of long delays, or they had been sitting waiting for a ballistics test from SAPS Forensic Services for two years or more.But for one reason or another, 95% of those cases had gone nowhere.They were simply lost in the system.00:18:36:11 - 00:19:01:08Geordin Hill-Lewis:That is an indictment.So, to answer your question directly, what we can do more of is investigations.We must win this fight on investigations so that we can investigate those crimes, produce the investigation report and docket, and hand over a solid, convictable case to the NPA.Essentially, a conviction on a platter.00:19:01:08 - 00:19:29:15Geordin Hill-Lewis:If we can do that, we can actually get criminals off the streets.It's all well and good to arrest them, but if they're back out the next day or the next week, what are you really doing?You're simply running a revolving door.What I really want to do is build our own Cape Town detective branch, take on this fight through investigations, win it, and build our own investigative capacity.00:24:29:00 - 00:24:58:11Alec Hogg:Something that also, I won't say keeps me awake at night, but certainly bothers me, is that you find lots of people coming from other parts of the country into the Western Cape, and particularly into Cape Town, your city. When they arrive there, they continue to vote for the parties that have driven them there and driven the provinces from which they come. I wonder if this is a sustainable situation.00:24:58:13 - 00:25:14:04Alec Hogg:How are you reading that? Do you feel that when people come from poverty into a metro like yours, they would vote for a continuation of it, or with the team that they've always been with?00:25:14:06 - 00:26:53:12Geordin Hill-Lewis:My sincere hope is that, given the enormous effort that we have made to improve living conditions and infrastructure over these last four years - really pouring our heart and soul into improving living conditions for people living in the poorest parts of the city - that they will see that benefit.They will see the benefit that the DA actually does deliver for all people and is really trying to develop the city as a whole, instead of focusing on particular sections of it, and that they will choose to vote for us and choose to support us. That's my firm hope.As we saw with the remarkable result in Emfuleni just two weeks ago, I think that's really worth highlighting.It is now true that it is only the DA in South Africa that has won a 100% Black community, a 100% coloured community, a 100% white community, and a 100% Indian community. There's only one party in the country that's done all four of those things, and it's the DA.So I think we're showing growing potential that we can actually win votes across the country and from every community.But I would still agree with your fundamental premise that there is a major risk in Cape Town because it is the country's only successful and functional city. It has attracted enormous numbers of people and, if they do then still vote for the ANC, we know that might have profound political implications for the future success of the city.So that is why it's really important that people unite behind the DA to prevent that from happening.00:26:53:14 - 00:27:43:16Alec Hogg:It's almost like your own support has to transcend those thoughts, because you get a lot of criticism personally for uplifting the poorer areas. But my goodness, if you don't do that, rationality says you're not going to be in power for very long.But you've been pretty good at that.The EFF leader that you brought over - I remember we had a chat with him - and then you brought over the ANC leader as well in the Cape Town metro. Is that something that you might be focusing on for the country as a whole? In other words, bringing some of your opponents into your tent?00:27:43:18 - 00:28:55:06Geordin Hill-Lewis:Absolutely. I mean, what I loved about that was that the leader of the ANC in Cape Town came over to the DA. One of the senior members of the EFF in Cape Town came to the DA.Both of them organically said they could see that we were really trying.That's not to say that everything is perfect. There are still enormous challenges and issues. But they could see that we were really trying, and they could see our values. They could see our heart.That meant a great deal to me.That was totally organic. They approached us.I just hope that voters can see that as well.I think the huge majority of people in Cape Town and South Africa get that this country is only sustainable when it works better for more people and works better for everyone.That is the journey that I hope many voters go through as well - that they can see that we are genuinely trying to govern better for everyone, that we are for everyone, and that, like that ANC leader and EFF member, they make the switch as well.00:28:55:08 - 00:29:21:01Alec Hogg:So we've got to leave you with some kind of forecast on how you think the November 4 election is going to go.As you sit here right now - and we'll be catching up with you again in August at the Drakensberg, I'm sure you're going to be asked the same question - how are you looking right now?What kind of gains are you expecting for the DA?00:29:21:03 - 00:31:02:19Geordin Hill-Lewis:I think we may be in the remarkable position of being either the winner or the leading party in six of South Africa's eight metro cities.That is Cape Town, where we hope - touch wood, with viewers' support - we will win.Then in Joburg, Tshwane, Ekurhuleni, Nelson Mandela Bay and eThekwini, where we are neck and neck.Absolutely neck and neck with MK, and the ANC has just completely imploded in eThekwini over the last while.I think it was in Francis Road where they were all the way down at 9% - just a staggering collapse - and they haven't recovered much since then.So there is an extraordinary opportunity.Of course, just because we're the leading party does not mean that we will actually govern all of those cities. That very much depends on the actual result, and this is why every percentage point matters.Let's go to everyone's favourite gogo in South Africa now, Helen. The difference between Helen getting, say, 38%, 42%, or 45% is massive.Massive, because it really shuts out a lot of those tiny one-man-show parties that then always try to call all the shots and wag the dog as the tail.So every single percentage point counts.That is really why I call on everyone to unite behind us so that we can fix these cities.00:31:02:21 - 00:31:27:11Alec Hogg:And the possible kingmakers, the Patriotic Alliance, who are growing in many areas and, apart from yourselves, are the other winners in the by-elections - have you got a more friendly position towards Gayton McKenzie and company than your predecessor had?00:31:27:13 - 00:32:38:13Geordin Hill-Lewis:I must say, I don't really do the politics of personal mudslinging and offence. It's not my style. It never has been.I try to focus on solving problems and doing the best that I can by working as hard as I can.So there's no personal beef at all.I speak to Gayton McKenzie often, actually, because Cape Town is the host of so many global events. He is the minister responsible for sport and culture, so our paths cross all the time.We get on perfectly well.But, of course, I've made the same remark to him: two rugby teams can be friendly in the change room, but once you get onto the field, it's war.And that's exactly how it will be in this election.We will fight for every vote and we will not give up easily. Not at all.In fact, we will absolutely outwork, outplay, outsmart and out-campaign the opposition.We are in it to win it.00:32:38:15 - 00:32:45:21Alec Hogg:And that Emfuleni result - is that showing you something that could happen nationally?00:32:45:22 - 00:33:55:05Geordin Hill-Lewis:What I love most about this Emfuleni result - for those who don't know where it is, it's in the south of Gauteng, in the municipality below Johannesburg.But this particular community where we won is actually right at the top of the Emfuleni municipality, literally just over the road from Orange Farm and Soweto. So it's basically a suburb of Soweto, even though it's in a different municipality.I think that's an enormously positive sign.If it can happen there, then it can happen in Orange Farm, it can happen in Soweto, and it can happen across Gauteng.The secret there was this extraordinary councillor, Mickey Shabalala, and a great campaign manager as well.They just worked the ground relentlessly.The community knew who Mickey was. They could see that she was hardworking in the neighbourhood and doing her best.They backed her.So I really appreciate that support. Thank you very much to all of the residents there.And yes, I absolutely believe it's possible in similar communities across Gauteng and elsewhere.00:33:55:07 - 00:34:06:09Alec Hogg:And I guess you've put your finger on something that is huge in local elections, and that's the quality of the candidates.Are they better this time around than five years ago?00:34:06:11 - 00:35:23:03Geordin Hill-Lewis:It is really tough, particularly in small-town South Africa, to attract the kind of skills and talent that is required. It’s really tough, and this is a perpetual challenge for every political party.I think the DA naturally attracts better people because people know the DA is associated with good government. We have a track record of good government in those places.People also know that we are an honest party and that they’re not going to get up to no good and so on.But nevertheless, this is a constant issue.And I know you, I think if I remember correctly, the last time we spoke, you live in a kind of rural town, a small town, and so you will know how tough this is.Even in the big cities it is tough to attract people into politics. It’s an extremely bruising career. You take unbelievable public abuse, much of it deeply unfair and personal.That’s all par for the course.But you have to remain focused, like a laser, on what you’re trying to achieve and just head steadily towards that.And yes, you’re right - where we have the right people, who are community servants and hardworking, with the right frame of mind, we generally win because the public can see it as well.00:35:23:11 - 00:35:37:10Alec Hogg:Well, you’ve got an excellent candidate here in the Overberg. He has been on it for quite a few years, but now he’s got his chance.I’m sure he reflects the quality that you have around the country.It’s going to be quite an election for the Democratic Alliance.00:35:37:11 - 00:36:19:00Alec Hogg:Geordin Hill-Lewis, the new leader. We look forward to seeing you in the Drakensberg A, B and C 9, as we call it - the ninth major conference.Geordin will actually be opening the conference on the 11th of August.He is the leader of the Democratic Alliance.I’m Alec Hogg from BizNews.com.