Before the vote, Haniff Hoosen promised to fix Durban by simply not stealing its money. MK then fell well short of a majority, and the DA's mayoral candidate found himself a coalition deal away from the job, or from losing it. He told Alec Hogg whether he'd step aside if his party's head office handed the mayoralty to someone else, why he rated the race a coin toss, which small parties he believed held the city's future, and what he'd tackle first in a city where the taps still run dry. He also named the Durban wards the DA won for the first time, and the ones that slipped away by a few hundred votes..Listen here.Edited transcript of the interview.Alec Hogg (00:03) Ahead of the local government elections, Haniff Hoosen sat with me here in our Hermanus studio and promised to do a Chris Pappas on Durban. Give us five years, he said, and we'll fix the city by simply not stealing the money. Well, last week Durban voted. Jacob Zuma's MK Party, which had been predicted to possibly get a majority, took 86 of the 223 seats, well short of a majority.Alec Hogg (00:30) The DA came in second, not that far behind, with 57 seats. No one, though, has a majority, and the most uncomfortable number in the city might be this. MK plus the ANC equals 123. And that's the number, exact number, that you need to be running Durban. In 2021, there was a shock at the end when some of the smaller parties shifted their allegiance after they had committed their allegiance to the Democratic Alliance. As a result, the ANC continued to run the city of eThekwini. And we know, well, maybe if you don't know, what the consequence of that has been: a disaster. So who really decides on who runs Durban? Haniff Hoosen's back with us. He is the mayoral candidate for the Democratic Alliance.And in a conversation with the leader of the DA party Dean Macpherson is the DA's KwaZulu-Natal provincial chairperson] earlier today, Dean Macpherson, he said it's a straight contest now for mayor between Haniff and the former mayor, Ms Gumede, who is being charged with hundreds of millions of rands in corruption. So it wouldn't seem like much of a choice for a rational mind, but politics is not always rational. Haniff, maybe give us the battle lines and what the public, or the greater players of Durban and eThekwini, the greater eThekwini, have to be thinking about right now after they have cast their votes. Haniff Hoosen (02:11) Yep. Firstly, thank you very much for having me. It's always wonderful to chat important bits of information with people who follow business and the rest of South Africa who receive information from your platform. So thank you. I want to also firstly say a really big thank you to millions of people who just supported us in this election across the country, wherever they might be. I just want them to know that the DA always has their back. We don't take that for granted, and we will continue working hard to make sure that we take that responsibility seriously and do the very best for South Africa. Closer to home here in Durban, we apply exactly the same principle, and we'll make sure that we take that responsibility very seriously. So thank you very much to everybody who supported us.The lay of the land, what it looks like at the moment, as you had mentioned in your intro, is exactly the same thing. It's going to come down to whether Durban has an MK mayor or a DA mayor. We said that prior to the election campaign, and it is now playing itself out very clearly. You know, Alec, we had achieved quite a number of milestones, I think, in this election here in eThekwini, with the support of people who voted for us. For the very first time, the DA replaced the ANC in eThekwini as the second-largest party. That's a historic moment for us. We also won a number of wards that we never won previously, so that for us is a positive growth sign. And then, of course, we achieved a big milestone, which was to keep the MK below the 50% mark. And the way politics works is that whilst we have to try and grow our support, here in eThekwini we had a scenario where we also had to work hard to keep the MK below 50%, which then puts us in a position to be able to govern the city with coalition partners. And so we've achieved that milestone, which is very, very important.Haniff Hoosen (04:25) And that's what the next few days is going to determine: how political parties come together to form a new government here in eThekwini.Alec Hogg (04:33) You do have, though, a template already in the Government of Provincial Unity, where yourself, the ANC and the IFP are together, you're working together. In fact, all the political parties who've got seats in the province are on the one side, as against MK on the other. MK's numbers are much smaller now than they are, relatively speaking, in the province. So you'd think it would be an easier job. But is that just a silly assumption? Haniff Hoosen (05:05) Well, you're absolutely correct. Let's not forget that MK was 45% in the 2024 elections, and they've now gone down 11 percentage points to around 38%, or something like that, thereabouts. So they lost about 7%. And that's significant in terms of the political landscape here. But you are also correct in that we have a working relationship with the IFP and the ANC at a national level, at a provincial level as well. So at least there's an element of a track record in terms of how we're able to work with each other. And I think that that has built some level of trust amongst the political parties that we work together in.But what happens over the next few days, obviously the parties at a national leadership level, our DA national leadership, the IFP, ANC and possibly other political bodies, are having those conversations to try and finalise some sort of arrangement and agreement so that we can decide who actually governs the city. A lot still needs to be done over the next few days. Alec Hogg (06:16) KZN is different, though, in this Government of Provincial Unity. It's the only one in the country. And I suppose for people from the province, you'd be wondering, well, why do the guys in head office, the national guys, why are they making the decisions when things are different in KZN, in the kingdom, in what used to be known as Natal? How does it all work in your place?Haniff Hoosen (06:49) KZN is a little, well, very different to many of the other provinces. We have a number of additional role players that are present here that are not present elsewhere in the country, so you're correct there. I want to just say that our national leadership and ourselves as the provincial leadership are in very close conversations almost on a daily basis. I mean, just this morning, for example, we were on a call all together. There is very open consultation with each other. It's very important, for a party like ours who has a national footprint, we have to speak with the national leaders at a national level, and that will cascade down to provinces. And obviously where the dynamics are different, in KZN, or in Durban for example, because of other role players, we communicate that openly to our national leadership and they factor those things into the conversation. So we do have a certain amount of leeway, to be honest with you. We've had some conversations yesterday here in Durban, for example, where we were engaging with some of the other smaller, one-seat political parties to try and find out where they sit in the equation, obviously without making any undertakings, but just to feel each other out in terms of where they stand: either they stand with an MK government or a DA government. And we've communicated that information to our national leadership. They take that into consideration when they're talking to other political parties. We trust that our national leadership is going to act with absolute responsibility for the entire country, and not just Durban and KZN. And I'm confident we're going to come out with a result that actually puts the country's interest and Durban's interest and all provinces' interests above party-political interests, if I can put it that way. Alec Hogg (08:39) Well, you answered that the way I expected you to. But now, if I'm sitting in Westville, I've got my home there, I've seen terrible things happening around me. The water, the... we don't have to emphasise or re-emphasise the point. Everybody knows that it's a mess. It's a mess in eThekwini and a mess in Durban at the moment. What if the national leadership in Gauteng decide, let's do a deal with ActionSA, and that irritates the ANC so much that they say, well, that's fine, we're not going to be doing a deal with you in eThekwini, we'll go and jump into bed with MK? Just as a theoretical example. Are you then able to say to national leadership, jump in the lake, that doesn't work here for us?Haniff Hoosen (09:28) But in the DA, that's not how we operate. We have high respect and regard for our national leadership. We know, and I feel personally very confident, that our team at a national leadership level who is negotiating on behalf of all of us, they will absolutely do the right thing. And I've even said on public record previously, internally, I will always do what's in the best interest of our country, our city, and whatever our national leadership, wherever they lead us, we follow. In the DA we have very open and frank conversations, but in the end we all come together behind a decision that we take. So whatever decision is made at a national level, and the negotiations and the agreements that are made at a national level, the one thing I can give you the absolute assurance of: all nine provinces, every single DA structure, gets behind the leadership decision, because there's an open opportunity for us to be able to have straightforward conversations, and in the end we make that decision and we get behind it. So it's highly unlikely that there's ever going to be a situation where we in KZN, to any degree, show disregard for the position that the party takes on a national level, and they know they have our full support as well.Alec Hogg (10:46) But is it a similar thing from their perspective? And I think this is what is worrying people: that there could be an overriding decision made at the top that doesn't work that well in the local areas. That's really my question here.Haniff Hoosen (11:06) Well, you know, I must tell you that just this morning, for example, we had an engagement with our national leadership structure, and they take every single consideration, every single factor, into consideration. So it's not a case of our national leadership trying to negotiate our power away. On the contrary, what they're trying to do is to get the very, very best deal for every single metro, wherever it's possible, every single province, every single town and city. And it's not an easy situation to deal with, you know, it's complex. And so we're not in a hurry or in a rush to try and finalise something by yesterday or early tomorrow morning. They have to look at every single possibility. What's the best deal for South Africa?And I know that the team that we've got that is dealing with this, they have the interest of eThekwini at heart as well, like they do with every other place where we've campaigned. And this is not the first rodeo, might I say. They have been through these situations many times in the past, and they've always come out on what's in the best interest of South Africa. So I understand some of the anxiety at the moment, but I don't have any sleepless nights about those things. I know we've got a great team of guys there who are going to do the very best for all of us.Alec Hogg (12:27) Okay, let me put it to you differently. What if a decision was made somewhere else to give the ANC the mayoralty of eThekwini, and you have to step back for that? Would you? Haniff Hoosen (12:42) If the national leadership of our party comes to such a conclusion, that's in the interest of the DA, in the interest of the country, I've always said upfront that I respect the decision that our party structures make. In the DA we don't throw chairs at each other. We have a conversation, we make a decision as a party structure, and we all comply with that. So whatever that decision is, if that is a decision, which is highly unlikely in any event, but if, hypothetically speaking, that is the decision of the party, I can tell you now: put the paper in front of me, I'm ready to sign. Alec Hogg (13:18) Haniff, I've been banging on about this not because of you, but because of a much bigger story, which is the one in Gauteng. The whole Gauteng negotiation seemed to hinge on whether Helen Zille is going to be... if the party's going to stand with her or not. So it's interesting to get that feedback, because it gives us an insight into the way the DA works. So thank you for sharing that with us. When you were in the studio, you said that the MK would be in for a shock. Being down in the thirties from 45, is that the shock that you were talking about? Haniff Hoosen (13:51) That's exactly what I was talking about. Let's not forget that the MK has been running around saying they're going to get a two-thirds majority. They ended up with 38%. 62%, almost a two-thirds majority, rejected that view. So that's the shock that I think they woke up with, in that they thought that they were going to be much more powerful than the 38%. In fact, even they can't believe their own poor result. And I think that's an indication of the message that we put out to the public that says: you have a choice between good governance and chaos. And people made that choice. And so there was an insufficient number of people who got behind the MK to say, we want to give you a majority here. Nobody wants the MK to have a majority in eThekwini, really, or in KZN; they didn't for that matter. That's a very telling story. And it also has another story, in that I think that people want political parties to work together for the broader interest of their towns and cities, provinces and the country. And that's the direction I think that South African politics is moving into, and it's good: that we can leave our defences aside and actually make things work. I mean, one of the things that I will make sure that we do, when we do get to run the city, is to make sure that we act in the best interests of everybody, regardless of where people voted and who they voted for. When there isn't water in an MK ward, for example, it matters. We have to fix that problem. Haniff Hoosen (15:22) So we campaigned on the basis of: we want to get Durban working for all. And we'll make sure that that's the action that people will see out of a DA government in Durban. Regardless of where people voted, they can rest assured that when it comes to a DA government, we're going to make sure that we get things working for everybody, and not just a specific group of people. Alec Hogg (15:45) How long have you been with the DA?Haniff Hoosen (15:49) Since around 2010, when I came on board from the Independent Democrats and merged with the DA at the time. I used to be the secretary-general of the ID at the time. So I've been in the DA since then, and I don't regret it whatsoever. We're such a great family, such a great group of guys here in KZN, and I love this place.Alec Hogg (16:16) I knew the answer, because you told me that last time we spoke. But if you go back those 15 years, the decade and a half, would you at that stage have foreseen what is happening now, that you may indeed, as a member of the DA, be the next mayor of eThekwini? Was it even part of your whole thought?Haniff Hoosen (16:40) No, no, absolutely not. You know, to be honest, I said just this morning, in a conversation I was having with another colleague, that in my wildest dreams I would never ever have expected the ANC to get to this point. I always thought that we won't see it in our lifetime, that the ANC will be down to this level. So that's been a super surprise, how poorly they performed in this election. I certainly never anticipated that one day I could become the mayor of Durban.But what I did know way back then, when the conversations between the ID and the DA had started, is that I could see then what I see now. And that is, South African politics was far too fragmented, in the sense that while we were in the ID at the time, we were all fighting unnecessarily, in that there was a much bigger picture. That's the reason why the ID and the DA came together at that stage: to actually build a political alternative for South Africa. I'm proud that I was part of that process, because that alternative for South Africa is here now. We're the second-largest party in South Africa, and if we didn't do what we did back then, we would not have achieved where we are today. So I want to use this opportunity, actually, to reach out to other like-minded political parties to say that we can actually make much more progress than what we are making at the moment if all of us who share the same values about what we want for South Africa actually get behind that idea for change. There is that alternative and that better way. I'm convinced that the DA is that better way, and we've done it wherever we've been given the chance.Alec Hogg (18:27) If we can talk demographics just for a moment. Gayton McKenzie said that he couldn't wait to get the two to three percent that would tip MK over into power in eThekwini. We know that that didn't happen. In fact, he got a very poor result, and so did MK. But from your perspective, from the Indian community, did they get behind you because it is part of the community that you come from? Because one hears the narrative: no, no, most Indian people actually voted for MK.Haniff Hoosen (19:04) No, the large majority. And we've done the initial analysis: more than 85% of the Indian community got behind the DA. And to be honest, I think perhaps my candidacy had made some positive contribution towards that result. However, in previous elections, that was a similar result. Even when I was not the mayoral candidate, in the 2024 elections, a large majority of the Indian community got behind the DA. So I cannot walk away from that question saying that it was because I was the mayoral candidate and I'm Indian and I come from that community. I think that the Indian community, like many other communities, recognise that the DA is about good governance, about anti-corruption, and employing the right people for the job. So that's the reason why people got behind the DA. If my candidacy has added a few percentage points to that, or a few thousand votes to that, then that's just a positive sign.But it's not just the Indian community. We have growth in the black community as well, tremendously. Thousands and thousands of people voted for the DA for the very first time here in Durban. And I was out in those communities, speaking to them about what it is that we want to offer. And I think many, many people got behind that idea, not because of what I look like; it's because of what the offer was on the table. And we all just want the same thing, right? We want water in our taps. We want things to work. We want our children to have a job. We want to be able to use our public facilities and be safe. All communities, Indian, coloured, white, black, whatever colour you might think of, we all just need the same thing. And that's the one thing that brings us together. And the DA has always been at the forefront of trying to deliver those things. I think that's the real reason why so many people got behind the DA in this election, in particular in the Indian community. I'm not surprised by it, because that's a similar result to what we got in the 2024 elections as well. Alec Hogg (21:09) So today there are 13 more days left before you have to put your coalition together. Given the history, given the template that you have in the Government of Provincial Unity, are you expecting this one to go down to the wire, that we're all going to be on tenterhooks until day 14 that the constitution allows? Or is it something that in your gut you feel you could get put together sooner? Haniff Hoosen (21:39) Look, my gut tells me that because there is a relationship that the DA has with other political parties, that might stand in our favour. But it's also up to the ANC and the IFP to decide what they want to do, and we respect that they're still consulting their own structures and so on, and how the party leadership at national level will make that decision of whether they're going to roll those things out in provinces as well. But I'll tell you what, the thing to watch also, very importantly, is those other political parties outside of the ANC, DA and IFP, and what they are going to do. I think that also matters a lot: whether they're going to back the MK or whether they're going to back a DA government. That's the choice that they have. So the voters have made their choice between a DA government or an MK government, and it's pretty clear they rejected the possibility of an MK government, which is great. It's now up to those smaller political parties to decide what choice they are going to make. Are they going, in the inauguration, to back the MK mayor, or are they going to back a DA mayor? And that's a choice that they must make, and also be answerable to the very people who elected them into office.Alec Hogg (22:58) Let's just say that the DA... sorry, the ANC were to back the MK. Let's just say that that happened. Would that collapse the Government of Provincial Unity? Haniff Hoosen (23:11) I do not know. I do know that it could possibly have other implications, and that's just a natural consequence of relationships. So if the ANC and the MK decide to support each other and build a partnership with each other, that's their choice. I'm sure that everyone has to respect that. But with that, I'm sure, will come consequences. And that would depend on how the parties, the DA at an entire national level, see that and make decisions there. I'm just a lowly mayoral candidate in the DA. I don't have to answer to those big decisions, and thank God for that. But I do suspect that it would possibly have implications elsewhere as well. Alec Hogg (24:00) If you have a look at the wards within eThekwini, where did you get a happy surprise in your result, and where were you disappointed?Haniff Hoosen (24:12) We had some surprises, happy surprises. We won a ward, more than one actually. Ward 93, I remember, used to be an ANC ward. We won that for the very first time. That's a victory for us. We won another, Ward 110, which had an MK councillor previously, so that's another big coup for us. We've won a number of other wards as well where we've never had a councillor previously. I think in total there were about five or six, which is great for us. And then the big benefit for us is that we grew in wards significantly across the city, in terms of new growth areas, and that's what the DA is always about. We try to build on the previous election result. And so the initial figures that my colleagues have pointed out to me are that we've grown by about 110,000 votes from previous elections. We haven't done the full and proper analysis yet, but that's the early indication, that 110,000, roughly, votes from the previous election, for us is a great win. So we're all about, you know, growth from election to election. And don't forget the DA was a 1.7% political party at one stage. And look where we are now. And that's only because there was, you know, stable growth, election after election, year after year. And that's the pathway to progress that we've always tried to stay on. Alec Hogg (25:42) When you talk about wards, and again, we can't repeat this too often, because not everybody understands the whole political process here: in South Africa, they're like mini-elections, so little parts of the city where people go. And you say you won some wards that in the past you maybe didn't even think were possible.Haniff Hoosen (26:05) Yeah, and that's about just sustained presence. So we identified a series of wards that we thought we could do much better in, and built on the previous election results. So you will see going forward, we will analyse the results from this election, and then we'll build on that as well in terms of where we focus. Because what you don't want to do, when you're trying to build and grow your support, is to have a buckshot approach. You have a much more focused approach. And so that's the reason why I think that we won some of these wards: because we focused on it over a five-year period, a sustained presence there, more people got behind us, and that's why we were able to walk away with so many wards that we've never had before. And I can tell you this for sure: come 2029, we're going to grow in those areas as well, because we've identified areas where we can see the potential for growth exists, and we'll put our time, investment and resources in those areas so that we can build on the growth from this election. Alec Hogg (27:10) You didn't answer my question on the disappointments. What disappointments did you have? Did you lose any wards that you expected to win, or actually wards that you previously had, to other political parties?Haniff Hoosen (27:24) Yes, actually. Look, every political party will want to do much better than what they did, and that's absolutely normal. We did lose a ward by a small margin to another political party, so it was a DA ward that we lost. So that was a disappointment for us. But the way we look at it overall is: what was the net effect? Did we walk away with a net win or a net loss? And in this election, in terms of actual wards, we walked away with a net gain, which is pretty good.We were also disappointed with two other wards that we came very close to winning off the ANC, Ward 8 and Ward 16. We were hopeful that we were going to win those two wards. We had two good candidates there. And I think we lost by about two or three hundred votes, but by a small margin. So those things were obviously a disappointment for us. We would have liked to have won more, and I say that in every election. I'm disappointed that we couldn't have gotten better. Haniff Hoosen (28:28) But for as long as we've shown growth on the previous election in terms of actual number of votes, that's what matters for us. So it's a net gain for us overall in Durban and in KZN. We now have more councillors in KZN than we had in the previous local government election, so that's definitely a net gain.Alec Hogg (28:50) And as far as the ratepayers, or Durbanites, are concerned, what is it that you're going to do to achieve that, doing a Chris Pappas for eThekwini? Give us your roadmap, and how long it's going to take before the people of eThekwini will see an impact, should you become mayor. Haniff Hoosen (29:14) I want to just say that I think that there are some urgent issues that need to be taken care of in the short term, in the immediate term. The most important, I think, is we need to get a proper hold of the city's finances. And we need to get that right. If we don't get the finances right, then nothing else is going to come right.So once we're able to get that right, we have to start working on prioritising some of the service delivery failures that we've got here. We've promised in the campaign that we're going to do our very best to end this water crisis in Durban, and redirect as much of the funding as possible towards that. What I can give people, a sense of hope in Durban, is that once we get to taking ownership of the city and control of the city, I can assure you that we're going to look very, very closely at the finances, close the tap on corruption, and open the tap on water. That's the one undertaking that I can give you with absolute sincerity: that we're going to work really hard towards that, especially within the first 100 days. So help is on the way, but it all just depends on what many of the other political parties who have qualified for seats decide to do. That's our offer on the table. And so it's up to the other political parties to install a DA government here in Durban, in order for us to be able to fix that problem. So may I use the opportunity to reach out to people and ask them to reach out to other political parties who have seats here in the eThekwini municipality, and pressure them, actually, to install a DA government. Some of them have got one, two, three, four, up to seven seats, the smaller political parties. And I think the public can make a contribution towards pressurising those political parties to vote for a DA mayor when we get to the inauguration. Alec Hogg (31:03) So give me the honest odds. We know that Durban is the home of Greyville, the home of the Durban July every year. So it's a betting centre. Hollywoodbets is from Durban as well. What odds would you give on a DA mayor, ANC mayor, MK mayor? Haniff Hoosen (31:25) What a great question. I think that if it were down to the three options, I think that there's a greater chance for a DA mayor when we get to the inauguration, on condition that some of the smaller political parties don't betray the people of the city. I cannot tell you what the odds are, but I mean, there is a 50-50 chance that we're going to end up with a DA mayor or an MK mayor. It's highly unlikely that you're going to end up with an ANC mayor. I can't see the pathway to that. But it's one of two options. It's either going to be an MK mayor or a DA mayor, and it's going to be a 50-50 shot in the bet. So let's see how that works out. I'm not a betting man, so I wouldn't put money on the end result. Alec Hogg (32:22) Haniff Hoosen is the DA's mayoral candidate for eThekwini, and he's given us some very, very useful insights into what is going to happen in the next 13 days, the negotiations behind the scenes, and thereafter for the people of eThekwini. Who are they going to get? Him, or someone from the MK Party? As he's suggesting, it doesn't look like the ANC mayoralty will continue in that city. It is a very close contest, as he said right from the beginning, neck and neck, and we will be keeping a close eye on it as well. I'm Alec Hogg with your BizNews Edge.