With Local Government Elections looming, all eyes are on KZN. In this interview with Chris, Steyn, eThekwini Mayoral Candidate and Deputy President of the African Christian Democratic Party (ACDP), Wayne Thring, describes how his party resisted bribery involving millions and even an offer of an ambassadorship. “Our councillors were offered incentives, millions of Rands, to join a particular coalition bloc which was with the ANC and the current coalition bloc in eThekwini. And they resisted, they refused. And that's the calibre. I myself was enticed with positions when I was serving in 2013. I was enticed with positions at a national level. I was offered an ambassador position if I would resign from the ACDP to join the ruling party. I refused.” As for his party’s decision to stay out of the Government of National Unity (GNU), he said: “We were invited and positions obviously were forwarded for the ACDP. But because of the tainted track record that the ANC have, we would have found ourselves having to defend, like the coalition partners are now having to defend at a national level, some of the policies of the ANC. Or if not defending, having to be quiet and silent so as not to rock the boat.” Thring is adamant that his party would never go into a coalition with the ANC, MKP and the EEF. “We have boots on the ground currently in all of the wards across eThekwini to ensure that a party like the MKP, and I must add ANC and EFF, amongst some of the others…we are working hard to ensure that political parties like these do not cause more damage, bring more chaos to South Africa…”.Listen here.Edited transcript of the interview.Chris Steyn (00:02.018)The local government elections are just around the corner and all eyes are on KZN. With me is eThekwini Mayoral Candidate and Deputy President of the African Christian Democratic Party, Mister Wayne Thring. Welcome, Sir.Wayne Thring (00:20.866)Thank you, Chris, and thank you for having me on your programme.Chris Steyn (00:24.972)You are welcome. How would you describe the current state of governance in eThekwini?Wayne Thring (00:33.261)I think that eThekwini certainly faces numerous challenges. If one just looks at the report by the Auditor General, the Auditor General has revealed that eThekwini has a challenge with regards to irregular expenditure of over some four billion rand. That four billion rand of irregular expenditure in eThekwini amounts to over 50, some 57 or so percent of the amount of irregular expenditure within the entire province. So very clearly, there is a challenge with regards to managing the finances, bearing in mind that eThekwini has a budget of some 75 billion rand. So eThekwini doesn't have a financial challenge. What eThekwini has is a maintenance problem, it has a management problem, and it has a corruption problem. I think secondly, within eThekwini, the Auditor General has also flagged the excessive waste of water, that's treated water that comes from the bulk plants, some 65 % of treated water coming from the bulk water that is purchased, some 65 % of the water is actually lost. That's the equivalent of some close to three billion rands annually that is lost. Over 20 billion litres of water per month, treated water is being wasted. And on top of that, you have an increase in the use of water tankers and hundreds of millions of rands are now being spent on water tankers where that particular money should be spent on repairing the pipes, repairing bursts and repairing the infrastructure essentially within eThekwini.So I think very clearly the challenge that we have in eThekwini is a management problem. And that speaks to a professional eThekwini where your civil servants in eThekwini, the officials in eThekwini understand that they are there to serve the people of eThekwini. But when you have political patronage that is involved and people who pander…Wayne Thring (02:58.808)…to politicians rather than serving the people, then these are the results that we're going to have. We'll continue to have irregular expenditures. We will continue to have a challenge with water. Unfunded mandates is another challenge that we also have in eThekwini. We will continue to have potholes in the roads. These are challenges basically dealing with crumbling infrastructure. So some of the key aspects, it's the water. It's the sewage. The Auditor General also found that of the some 35 sewer plants throughout South Africa, 22 of those 35, 22 of the 35 are allowing raw sewage to flow into our rivers and into our seas. So this is the challenge. It's a challenge that we also have in eThekwini as well, over the last two years or so, tourism basically came to a halt, particularly along the beachfront area, where it was found that the E. coli levels were so high that it was dangerous for people to actually swim in our oceans. And this is unprecedented because here you have a city that is built to a large extent on tourism, a port city and built to a large extent on tourism, a hundred kilometres of pristine beaches. But we're telling our tourists, you can come to Durban, but you can't visit our beaches because they have been polluted. And this has cost a huge amount to the economy of eThekwini, driving down the economy, driving business away, and presents a challenge where eThekwini should be a city, as a port city, with the challenges of attempting to, like most of our municipalities, we want to actually bring in the finance to our cities. We want to develop businesses within the city. But because of these particular challenges of irregular expenditure, challenges of crumbling infrastructure, water, sewer, roads, streetlights, crime within the city, because of these challenges, we actually drive business away from the city. And I think that the position of the ACDP is very clear. We've got to fix the city.Wayne Thring (05:22.601)That the residents of eThekwini deserve better. They deserve when you open the tap, the residents of eThekwini deserve water to flow. It's a constitutional prerogative. Water is not a luxury. Water is a necessity, protected by the constitution, protected also by the municipal laws that we have, you your systems and your structures act. Service delivery is key, the service delivery to municipalities. Residents pay for services and residents deserve the services that they pay for. And unfortunately, what we are seeing in eThekwini is a failure to comply with the legal prerogatives as per our constitution and local government laws.Chris Steyn (06:12.237)What tangible evidence can you share of your ability to govern differently?Wayne Thring (06:19.527)There's a number of initiatives that the ACDP has implemented. And I think that there's this misnomer and some who are economical with the truth when they say that a vote for a smaller party is a wasted vote. Don't vote for smaller parties because you're going to waste your vote. Vote for a bigger party because this is what bigger parties can do.But let's just look at what the ACDP has done over the years. If one looks at our former MMCs in the city of Cape Town, for example, when we were in coalition, we had the deputy mayor position. One of the things that was established by the ACDP in the city of Cape Town was a drug rehabilitation centre. That drug rehabilitation centre is built on international standards. That drug rehabilitation center is still standing today, thanks to the ACDP. In the city of Nelson Mandela, former MMC and still sitting councillor, when he was the MMC for the environmental affairs in Nelson Mandela, turned dirty streets or dirty dump sites into clean, green, playing fields for our children and in particular in the townships. And he won accolades. I think he was the second best, the second best MMC in the country for what he actually did in the Nelson Mandela Bay area. And then when we had that listeriosis crisis, he was already proactive. And as the MMC for health at the time, conducted raids on illegal food outlets to protect citizens, to ensure that the food that has been sold in Nelson Mandela Bay is of the highest standard possible.Our former MMC in the city of Tshwane was able to save the city of Tshwane some two billion rand where he detected a potential fraudulent contract that was about to go through and stopped it. Our former MMC in the city of Johannesburg was able to issue some one thousand title deeds in the space of one month, one thousand title deeds in one month, where his predecessor took some five to ten years to issue…Wayne Thring (08:45.476)…a thousand title deeds. So what this actually shows is that where the ACDP governs and where the ACDP is given the requisite authority, the ACDP is there to save finances, save your ratepayers finances, and also to produce the service delivery that ratepayers actually need.In addition, here in eThekwini, our two councillors that we have, one of them being Councillor Jameel Essop…. It is our councillor and in particular, taking the lead is Councillor Essop, who has managed to bring two development projects that were stalled. And so the business individuals actually approached him and said, hey, we need help. They didn't go to the bigger political parties because the bigger political parties were a part of the problem. And so they came to the ACDP, approached our councillor Jameel Essop and actually said, we don't know why these two particular projects of the Beechwood project and the Whetstone project. These two projects have a cumulative value of about eight billion Rand, eight billion Rand. And so when he got the municipal manager and the head of the different departments together, they found that they could not understand what was calling the projects. So the municipal manager then said, unlock the projects. And it was found that the bottleneck was actually the release of your certificates, the water and sewage clearance certificates, that some officials were just basically sitting on. And so through the intervention of our councillor, we were able to unlock two projects to the value of some eight billion rand. Now, that's probably the equivalent of some five to six, the leverage on that in terms of employment, some five to 6,000 jobs in eThekwini. Now, eThekwini has the lowest unemployment rate of all of the metros and possibly even the municipalities. The lowest unemployment rate, 21.9%, I think, is where it's currently sitting. But that also is thanks to the work of the ACDP.Wayne Thring (11:03.541)So it's a misnomer. It is being economical with the truth when one says that a vote for a smaller party is a wasted vote. Now, if two councillors are able to unlock some eight billion Rand and bring in some five to 6,000 jobs, can you imagine if the ACDP was the majority party? What would happen from an economic view in eThekwini. What would happen if we became the majority party in eThekwini? But in addition to that, Chris, we also had the… motor show and there were some problems with them coming to eThekwini. The officials weren't playing ball and so they approached our councillor, Jamrrl Essop, and they asked, can you actually intervene? And he again intervened. And the.. show brought in some just over that weekend. It is estimated that when one looks at the snowball effect on eThekwini basically gave them some five. I think it was about five hundred thousand or maybe about five million Rand or so. That's no, no, five hundred thousand because the five million went to the golf, the Durban Golf Club event. Five million was invested there and on the Durban Golf Club.The return on that investment was in the region of about 20 million Rand to the city. But with 500,000 investment to the …motor show, 50 million return in investment to the city. So yeah, you have some, you know, some, some eight, seven to eight, seven to eight billion Rand, sorry, five billion Rand, five to 6,000 jobs created, 50 million Rand over one weekend brought into the city. Thanks to the ACDP. So very clearly, I think that when I served as the counselor for eThekwini, we've had the city manager and municipal municipal manager come in to us and say, you know, we appreciate the work that the ACDP does because the ACDP punches above their weight. And this is very evident. So my counterparts who replaced me in eThekwini currently continue to punch…Wayne Thring (13:24.877)…above their weight. And it shows the ethos, it shows the work ethic that the ACDP brings to the fore. And this work ethic is based on a biblical principle called the Jethro principle, where you choose able men. So in other words, not cadre deployment. And not just because you are an ACDP member, are you going to be promoted to positions. The ACDP believes in the principle of those who are fit for purpose.Similar, I suppose, to the MPH model in Singapore, which turned Singapore from a third world country to the first world country that it currently is. And so we believe in the principle of fit for purpose, able men, trustworthy. One of the challenges that the former Auditor General of South Africa indicated is that you have the wrong hands with regards to municipalities. He says the problem with our municipalities today is that you have the wrong hands in the till or at the till. So we at the ACDP… we pride ourselves in having trustworthy men and women. And then those who hate dishonest gain. You know, if you have dishonest people and you put them, you put them at the till, they're going to steal. If you have dishonest people and you put them at the trough, they're going to eat everything that they possibly could.But with the ACDP. Look at the track record, Chris, that the ACDP has. Unblemished. No corruption scandals. Untainted record. Look at the leadership. Our leader, Rev. Dr. Kenneth Meshoe, a clean record for the past 32 years of serving in government. Look at our other Member of Parliament, Steve Swart, one of the longest serving members in the Justice Portfolio Committee, serving on the Constitutional Committee, clean, clean record. And I've now come in and our former former members of parliament, former MMCs, no scandals can be pointed at the ACDP because we pride ourselves and hold ourselves accountable in terms of these principles, the principle of ability, the principle of being honest, the principle of being trustworthy, and then also fearing God, because we believe that if you do not fear God, how will you fear those whom you are called to serve?Wayne Thring (15:52.28)And as I said, this is also very similar to this. believe that the Singaporean model is based on this biblical principle, the MPH meritocracy. Meritocracy, you appoint based on merit. P, pragmatism, use what works. We have business principle policies by the current government that are failing. Your BEE and your preferential employment policies of the current government are failing South Africans and they are failing businesses in South Africa. So the P part of the MPH, pragmatism, uses what works and H honesty. The first leader of Singapore, when one of his members was given a holiday by a businessman, the moment he returned, that leader had that member of his parliament arrested. He says it will set an example to the rest that when we say honest leaders, we mean business. And so that set the tone for the rest of the leaders in Singapore. And I think with the ACDP, it's no different. We believe in these particular values, biblical values, but these are values that hold true, I believe, across all religious groups and across all denominational groups as well.Chris Steyn (17:11.811)Meanwhile, former President Jacob Zuma’s MKP is likely to be the biggest party in KZN after the local government elections. How would that impact on the governance in eThekwini ?Wayne Thring (17:25.73)Well, I think that very clearly there huge concerns and I think that those concerns are actually valid, that the concerns are warranted. If one looks at the track record, MKP to a large extent actually comes out from the ANC. The former leader of the ANC, Mr. Jacob Zuma, was implicated in corruption charges. He was found guilty by a court of law of having a corrupt relationship at the time with his financier, Shabir Shaik. He was implicated in State Capture, the allegations with regards to State Capture, involved in the State Capture in the Zondo Commission. So very clearly, I think the evidence against Mr. Zuma, who asked for his day in court and then when it was brought to him, did everything to stay out of court, and a number of the leaders within the MKP, have also been implicated in State Capture and possibly are still facing charges against them. Now, one has to ask a question, is this the political party that one wants to govern in eThekwini or any other part of South Africa? A political party that has a track record that none would want to pin to their shoulders or a badge to their chest.And so very clearly, I think that we need to do everything possible to ensure that a political party like the African Christian Democratic Party that has a very clean track record, that is capable, that is able, and that has produced when it was actually asked to produce in terms of service delivery, it has a very high standard, standards that we actually set for ourselves. And so we, as the ACDP, are working around the clock, working as hard as we can. We have boots on the ground currently in all of the wards across eThekwini to ensure that a party like the MKP, and I must add ANC and EFF, amongst some of the others, we are working hard to ensure that political parties like these do not cause more damage, bring more chaos to South Africa based on their policies and based on their …Wayne Thring (19:50.484)…failed track records, failed economic policies that have increased South Africa unemployment. Unemployment is currently sitting at around 34 % on the expanded definition of unemployment, 44 %. Youth unemployment sits at some 62 % because of these failed policies. When one looks at our national budget, we have a national budget of some 2.6 trillion rand, but we have a deficit. A budget that is in deficit of around 4 % deficit on the budget. We have a debt to GDP of some 79%. GDP sits at just close to just over 7 trillion Rand, close on to 8 trillion Rand. And our debt is over 6 trillion Rand. The debt service costs, we're looking at, which is now one of the highest. In items on our budget, debt service costs at over 400 billion rand, some 1.1 billion rand per day spent on just servicing our debt. AAnd this is as a result of failed policies over the years, and includes a party whose leaders were in government, the MKP has landed South Africa in this situation where now we are sitting with generational debt, generational debt that our children and our grandchildren will have to service if something is not done about it soon enough. And so as the ACDP, we are saying to the citizens of eThekwini, you deserve better. You deserve a city that works. You deserve employees who understand that they are there as servants and you deserve officials who understand that they too are servant leaders, servants of the public. The public and the servants and the residents whose hard earned rate payers money must be put to maximum effect to ensure that we get bang for our buck because every rand counts. And as the ACDP, this is what we would focus on to ensure that our residents get value for every rand of rate payers money that is collected.Chris Steyn (22:10.807)If I'm correct, sixty nine parties and fourteen independents are contesting the election. Is that so?Wayne Thring (22:19.739)Yes, it is currently 69. I'm not sure about the independents, but I can confirm that it's 69 political parties.Chris Steyn (22:27.011)What would the implications be for vote splitting?Wayne Thring (22:33.243)The view of the ACDP on this is that we have a constitutional democracy which supports a multi-party framework. And so a multi-party democracy is what our constitution supports. The constitution does not support a two-state political party. It does not support a two-state solution. The constitution does not support two or three largest political parties. The constitution does not support setting up thresholds to exclude political parties. So in other words, voters have the right to choose those political parties that they believe best aligns with their values. And so I think the view of the ACDP is that we are supportive of a multi-party democracy as entrenched and protected by our constitution. We will resist attempts to limit political parties from participating by the setting of thresholds. While we understand, however, that there are certain guidelines, particularly when it comes to coalitions, that must be adhered to. And the ACDP, whenever we've gone into coalitions, one could say that the ACDP, the word that the ACDP gives, can be taken to the bank, unlike, unfortunately, other political parties. And I have to say, and if I'm pressed on it, I will elaborate, unlike the DA, that really caused challenges for us, particularly when we were negotiating with what was then called the Moonshot Pact, where we were told that, no, no, no, they are not going into any coalition. When the rumours were out there...and we questioned it as leaders of different political parties. Is the DA going into a coalition with the ANC? And we were told, no, we are not. Post-elections, the Moonshot Pact got shot past the moon and went to the stars and hasn't returned. And the DA were, as I said, were economical with the truth…Wayne Thring (24:51.341)…and they went into a coalition with the ANC. Now, the ACDP is unlike those other political parties. The other political parties will come to coalitions and say, we want power, that's it. We are not concerned about anything else, we just want position. And I've sat in some of those coalition meetings where other political parties would come and say, this is what we want. And the ACDP looks at what is best, and we've always done that, what is best for the residents to the point where in two municipalities where we could have had MMC seats, we said to our councillors, we do not believe that you are ready because they were very new councillors. We do not believe so we are not going to be fighting for MMC positions. That was in Richards Bay and in the city of Tshwane. And when our councillor rebelled and resisted and wanted to go and join the opposition, the ANC coalition, that councillor was actually disciplined by the ACDP.When the ACDP has committed to coalition governments, we've kept our word and it's based on principle and is based also on what is best for the residents of that particular municipality. In eThekwini, it will be no different. Our councillors were offered incentives, millions of Rands, to join a particular coalition bloc which was with the ANC and the current coalition bloc in eThekwini. And they resisted, they refused. And that's the calibre. I myself was enticed with positions when I was serving in 2013. I was enticed with positions at a national level. I was offered an ambassador position if I would resign from the ACDP to join the ruling party. I refused.So this is this ethical leadership, this is the standard of leadership that the ACDP presents to South Africa. It has leaders who can be trusted.Chris Steyn (27:00.953)Who in the block offered the millions?Wayne Thring (27:05.738)The block that offered the millions, it came via a so-called acquaintance of one of our councillors, and he was said that he was sent to pass this message on. And so our councillors said, and that is coming from the ANCl current coalition of the ANC and I think some 11 or 12 other political parties, some one seat parties that form this particular bloc. And so we sent the message very clearly that we are not interested. So that's the message that came from the ACDP and that we got from the other bloc.Obviously, it seems as if...Wayne Thring (28:04.305)..it seems as if however, the, yeah, it seems as if the identity of the individuals within that block also were not revealed.Chris Steyn (28:13.719)Okay. Which parties would you never go into a coalition with?Wayne Thring (28:18.537)Very clearly, I think the ACDP has been public in terms of that particular position. And I've already alluded to it. I think that the ACDP has consistently said that we would not go into a coalition with the ANC. I think that the ANC unfortunately has a very tainted track record and is one of the reasons why we did not go into the national coalition that we currently have.We were invited and positions obviously were forwarded for the ACTP. But because of the tainted track record that the ANC have, we would have found ourselves having to defend, like the coalition partners are now having to defend at a national level, some of the policies of the ANC. Or if not defending, having to be quiet and silent so as not to rock the boat. So we didn't join the national coalition as a result. So the ANC is one of those. The second is, as I indicated, MKP. They've been a part of the challenge and part of the problem, we believe, as the ACDP. And then the third is the EFF, whose political ideology and policies are so divergent from the ACDPs that we would find ourselves in continuous loggerheads with a political party like the EFF. And that would make any coalition untenable and the municipality possibly ungovernable if it were to include us and these political parties.Chris Steyn (30:03.119)Thank you. That was African Christian Democratic Party Deputy President, Mr. Wayne Thring, speaking to BizNews. I'm Chris Steyn. Thank you, Sir.Wayne Thring (30:13.232)Thank you, Chris. Thank you again for having me..Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox every morning on weekdays. Register here.Support South Africa's bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here.If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here.