Ian Cameron: Mashatile’s blue light “Thugs”, the Hennops river cops - and police portfolio committee priorities

Ian Cameron, the Chairperson of Parliament's Portfolio Committee on Police, has been the target of a virulent attack by The Police and Prisons Civil Rights Union (POPCRU) for labelling as “thugs” Deputy President Paul Mashatile’s VIP Protection officers who were involved in a “brutal” assault on “innocent” civilians next to the N1 in Johannesburg in 2023 - but were acquitted following an internal disciplinary hearing - despite video evidence. “In a parliamentary context, as part of my constitutional duty to do oversight, I'm not going to allow any union to make me look or seem or feel like just being a rubber stamp that needs to simply approve anything they say or do. There's something very wrong with the process that was followed here and it's critical for us to dissect it.” As for the mysterious deaths of four police officers whose bodies were found in the Hennops River recently, Cameron says: “I do find it suspicious, and it's not to cast doubt on any part of an investigation or anything like that, but it is an extraordinary kind of event….So it would be very interesting to understand more of the depth and context as to what exactly those members were involved with.” Cameron also gives an update on the biggest issues his committee is currently grappling with, including the proposed regulatory amendments of PSiRA that “in essence mean that in a very arbitrary way, a security company can lose its function overnight”..Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox at 5:30am weekdays. Register here.Support South Africa’s bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here.If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here..Watch here:.Listen here:.Edited transcript of the interview.Chris Steyn (00:01.944)The knives are out again for Ian Cameron, the Chairperson of Parliament's Portfolio Committee on Police. Welcome Ian. Ian Cameron (00:09.924)Thank you, Chris. Chris Steyn (00:11.606)OK, POPCRU is calling for your head. Please give us the story. Ian Cameron (00:18.224)Yeah, so maybe just some context. You'd remember in 2023, the incident of a group of Blue Light Thugs, as I like to call them, that very violently, brutally assaulted innocent civilians next to the N1 in Johannesburg. And it sparked massive outrage. Now at that stage, I was still involved with Action Society, as you'd remember, and we managed to track down some of the victims to try and support them through this process, which we did. And this included criminal charges, etc. etc. Now obviously, at that stage, it was even more controversial because they were the, you know, part of the Protection Detail of the Deputy President. And we've previously had this huge frustration with Blue Light Brigades seemingly doing as they please, when they please, how they please all over South Africa with little or no consequence. So that went viral. It was a whole big crisis story. They were charged. They were eventually, after one hell of a fight, they were arrested. Each of them were released on or received R10,000 bail. And then obviously we were all asking, but what's going on with the disciplinary process? So fast forward slightly. I get involved in Parliament, become an MP, and I'm elected as the Chairperson of the Police Portfolio Committee. So during this process as Chair of the Committee, several times, I think it was two or three times, the Committee questions the progress of the disciplinary process, because why is it taking so long? I mean, if you more or less...think about it, it’s taken about two years to get to the point where there's no way, in my opinion, if you consider the video evidence, it should have taken a week. You know, there's no reason for it to have dragged out this long. So last week, we find out - after Action Society submitted a PAIA application to determine what the status of the disciplinary is - we find out that all of the members were acquitted… Ian Cameron (02:37.071)…on, I think it was the 7th or the 8th of April 2025. So, there's more than a month later, no one told the Committee, no one shared it with Parliament after SAPS said that they would keep us posted on the matter. In that letter, signed off by the commander of the Presidential Protection Services, Major General Wally Rhoode, it really feels like you're reading a story of time-delaying tactics. And I'll share it with you as well. It's very interesting to read because it's just complication and frustration and objection after objection. And it just continues to drag out. Eventually the unions have a problem, then one union changes to another, and it was chaotic. Nevertheless, they were acquitted. Acquitted by SAPS for the relevant internal charges. Now what's very interesting about this, and I haven't seen the whole report yet, and although I condemn it being leaked, it's important that I do say that the part that I have heard, that I read through the media over the weekend, was that the disciplinary process or the chairperson found that the video footage was not admissible as evidence. Ian Cameron (04:05.471)Now, this is shocking. I mean, it was the root cause to the entire incident. And how could it be? And they claim that it's because they couldn't prove the authenticity. How is this possible if even a court in May of 2024 determined that the video footage is admissible as evidence? So obviously, I mean, and I'm not going to comment on judicial matters. I don't have the competency to, but what I can say just from a legislative point of view and from an oversight or inquiry point of view, I find it strange that if this were to be true, that a disciplinary process sees itself as being a step above the judiciary, which is very worrying. So that's that part. So throughout this process, several times in Parliament, I called the VIP Eight “thugs” and that is exactly what they are. They are thugs. They behave themselves as such. They are an embarrassment to many good career police members and there is no justification for what they did. Now from both POPCRU and unfortunately SAPU as well, they are very aggrieved now because how dare I call them thugs. POPCRU tried last week in a little bit of a cheap attempt at a police officer's funeral, which makes it even worse, to say that they called me, I don't know, the white boy thinking that he's the Chairperson of the Police or something like that. And I take it from who had come, so I don't have sleepless nights over those types of comments. But they then said, that, you know, how dare I call police thugs. Now, everyone knows, anyone that does, puts in a little bit of effort to do just a little bit of research knows how incredibly enthusiastic and passionate I am about good policing and how many police officers I have fantastic relationship to. So I would never make a sweeping statement like that. But when it comes to rogue cops, I would. Ian Cameron (06:23.655)And I stand by that. In a parliamentary context, as part of my constitutional duty to do oversight, I'm not going to allow any union to make me look or seem or feel like just being a rubber stamp that needs to simply approve anything they say or do. There's something very wrong with the process that was followed here and it's critical for us to dissect it..Read more:.BN Briefing: SA nuclear innovation goes global; Mashatile's security "thugs"; Afrikaner-ANC tensions.Chris Steyn (06:47.906)They are going on trial criminally in June. Is that correct? Ian Cameron (06:54.851)That's correct. So, the trial commences, I think it's on the 10th of June. Chris Steyn (06:59.822)So maybe after that trial you'll be able to call them convicts instead of thugs. Ian Cameron (07:05.697)Well, we'll have to see, but I don't think that would go down too well. In my opinion, I would certainly do so, but I can think of quite a few personalities that would be going off at it again. Chris Steyn (07:16.302)Well, let's hope the trial takes into account all the relevant evidence, Meanwhile, can you tell us more about the mysterious deaths of four police officers whose bodies were found in the Hennops River recently? Ian Cameron (07:38.66)Chris, I don't have any more information than what is already public. It's obviously extremely tragic. I've heard a lot of stories, I've heard conspiracies and so on. But factually speaking, I don't have more information. I do find it suspicious and it's not to cast doubt on any part of an investigation or anything like that, but it is an extraordinary kind of event. It's not something that you would think happens often, and it, in my opinion, certainly is not. So it would be very interesting to understand more of the depth and context as to what exactly those members were involved with. It's also interesting that one of the persons found was attached to a completely different station, never mind a unit. So all of that is important to consider. I think similarly to the N1 protectors now and the whole going on about that, it's important that we don't do trial by media. So exactly what what POPCRU is now making allegations against me of, that’s exactly what we shouldn't do. We should use any kind of evidence, something that's blatant in front of us, that we can use as evidence. Now, I'm going to go back to the VIP Protector story just to give context to why I say that. A lot of the justification, whether it's for an accident or an incident like the VIP Protection incident, the Blue Light Mafia incident, as we used to call it, was that...you know, and I heard the union saying, we didn't know what happened before the video was recorded. Now, regardless of what happened before, doesn't justify the actions. So we can, with, you know, quite a bit of certainty say that the actions in the video were incorrect, not justifiable, etc., etc. And I think with the accident or not the specific incident, Ian Cameron (09:55.33)…of the members that were found, we would need to make sure that due process is allowed to be followed and that hopefully we get an accurate portrayal of what really happened. Chris Steyn (10:08.226)Meanwhile, Ian, what are the biggest issues that the Police Committee is grappling with at the moment? Ian Cameron (10:16.393)So there quite a few things. You'd remember the matter of Cwecwe, the little girl in the Eastern Cape. That was something that was very prominent in the Committee. The EFF actually asked for a special sitting on that, to which I originally didn't agree to because I said we should be careful not to set a precedent because we simply cannot get to every single individual matter. Our role as parliament is oversight and legislation. But I think it was good that we had the session and I must welcome it because I do think that there was an opportunity for all the different parties and entities and so on and so forth to ask certain questions. And even though I don't think everyone got the answers that they wanted or expected, but I think it was good that at least the discussion was held. And furthermore, we've zoomed in quite a bit on the the PSiRA egulations. You would have seen the controversy around the proposed regulatory amendments of PSiRA. And it really is extremely concerning to see the nonchalant way in which these regulations or amendments were gazetted, because they in essence mean that in a very arbitrary way, a security company can lose its function overnight. You know, they can have some kind of an anonymous tip-off to something and they can arbitrarily decide to close that company or stop them from doing business until further notice, not even mentioning the fact that they wouldn't be able to defend themselves or the very people that they'll pay to protect. So that along with the whole extortion crisis, you and I have spoken about that before, links quite well because when you look at extortion in South Africa, there's something that in my opinion is on the increase. I don't think the actual statistics that we sometimes get on accurate reflection because people are terrified of reporting it because of mistrust in authorities and they literally fear for their lives. And this along with the PSiRA matter is very important to consider together because while we went on oversight a few weeks ago in both the Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal, … Ian Cameron (12:36.943)….there’s a handful of rogue security companies, the ones that should actually be punished and regulated just with the existing regulations, but aren't. They're in cahoots with different people, and they act as enforcers for extortion. A very interesting dynamic that these two things are moving along together. And many more, I think those are the very critical ones at the moment. Yes, and we're busy. We actually started with the annual performance plans of the different entities, and unfortunately that was stopped due to the whole budget issue. So hopefully soon in June we'll be able to work through the annual performance plans from our committee side. It includes the South African Police Service, IPID, the Hawks, the Civilian Secretariat, and PSiRA. Chris Steyn (13:29.806)I've also been meaning to ask you about the police targets. Ian Cameron (13:36.976)Yeah, so it was quite a discussion, Chris, when we looked at the annual performance plans during the initial discussion with SAPS, we were quite alarmed that they target for specifically, there were two major red flags for us. The one was the very low target for detected murder cases was 11.3%. I think it was 11.3%. And, you know, I understand that targets need to be realistic, but you are not giving a country hope by doing that or not aiming higher. In fact, I think it really exposes in what deep, deep trouble we are when it comes to investigating something like that. And my question to the Deputy National Commissioner at that stage was, but General, are you saying to me that it's okay that close to nine out of 10 murders go unsolved? He said, no, no, no, this is just a new way of measuring it. I said, no, but if we were to put it in a different sentence or a different structure, it means that only one out of ten murders might actually be successfully investigated. Now this is a crisis because at that point someone from the public that was watching the committee sent me a message and said so basically they're saying that if you want to murder someone South Africa is the place to do it and that's a horrible way of thinking about it. But to be honest with that type of target the chances are pretty good that people are going to get away with it. So that was one that was very concerning. And then there was another one that was extremely alarming, and that was the threshold for firearm losses by the police. So the previous year, was just over 600 firearms as a target that were allowed or were acceptable to be lost by the South African police service or stolen from them. But now it's been shifted to just over 500. Something like that in my opinion, is something that should be zero. It's something, and I understand, you know, there's a whole Department of Monitoring and Evaluation that plays a role in determining how you set targets, reach targets, etc. And it must be realistic. But for goodness sake, in a country with the murder rate that we have and such a low detection rate, surely the very tools that are often used to kill people, namely illicit firearms,… Ian Cameron (16:00.527)…need to be at zero losses when it comes to the very custodians of law enforcement in the country, namely the South African Police Service. Chris Steyn (16:11.192)Quite Ian, any other issues you would like to highlight before I let you go? I know you are very busy. Ian Cameron (16:17.985)No, Chris, I think I really appreciate the, I must say, in terms of public support the past week with regards to the VIP Protection scandal, it's been remarkable to see different organisations and South Africans rallying behind me, but broadly speaking, the Committee and all the different entities that are saying, but this is wrong, we need to change this. And I think it's important that we encourage people to continue to do that. I think we have a real opportunity to bring change and to influence a system like this that clearly is not functioning the way that it should. So it's just a message of appreciation. It's really been significant to see the amount of support and it's important that we don't lose hope and that we keep pushing forward. Chris Steyn (17:12.088)Thank you. That was Ian Cameron, Democratic Alliance spokesman on Police and of course the Chairperson of Parliament's Portfolio Committee on Police speaking to BizNews, I'm Chris Steyn. Thank you, Ian.

Ian Cameron: Mashatile’s blue light “Thugs”, the Hennops river cops - and police portfolio committee priorities

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