Listen here.AfriForum has asked the National Director of Public Prosecutions, Advocate Andy Mothibi, for an urgent update on the much delayed extradition of the Guptas who allegedly benefited from State Capture to the tune of between R50 and R70 billion. In this interview with Chris Steyn, Jacques Broodryk, AfriForum’s Chief Spokesperson: Community Safety, says it is possible that the Guptas still enjoy protection from South African politicians. “And I think the main reason for that would be that there are other people who are still implicated in their misdeeds as well. People who aren't hiding in the UAE, but people who are still living within the borders of our country.” Broodryk goes on to vow “...this is definitely something that we're not going to let go. Even if it takes us years…I think we've proven ourselves, that we don't let matters go. Look at the Julius Malema case, for instance, the firearms case that took us eight years of continuous pressure and continuous following up to ensure that justice was served and it was eventually - and we're planning to do the same with this Gupta matter.”.Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox at 5:30am weekdays. Register here.Support South Africa’s bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here.If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here..Edited transcript of the interview.Chris Steyn (00:01.09)The poster boys for State Capture, the elusive Guptas, are back in the spotlight. I speak to Jacques Broodryk of AfriForum. Welcome, Jacques.Jacques (00:11.893)Morning Chris, thanks for the opportunity, good to speak to you.Chris Steyn (00:16.344)You've written to the National Director for Public Prosecutions to get clarification on the extradition process - or not - involving the Guptas. What are you asking him?Jacques (00:30.039)Well, basically, we want to know where this process is at at the moment, because we know a lot was said about the Guptas getting extradited. We know the previous head of the NPA, Advocate Shamila Batohi, held press conferences about this and released statements and it was a big thing that they're finally going to take action against these State Capture suspects. And then it all just went quiet. Nothing came of it. Now, from what we understand, according to the NPA's latest public communications regarding this matter, is that the …. application was turned down because of an administrative issue or a technical detail. And so if that is the case, then it should have been something that could have been resolved quite easily. And the Guptas should have been back in South Africa by now. So we're hoping that now under the leadership of Advocate... Chris Steyn (01:20.493)Andy MothibiJacquesAdvocate Mothibi, yes, thank you very much. Under his new leadership, perhaps they'll take this matter seriously again and we can start seeing some action.Chris Steyn (01:29.536)Is this the first time you've asked the prosecuting authorities for clarification?Jacques (01:34.773)Yes, it is first time, but if you go and look at AfriForum's track record, we have had quite a long history with dealing with the National Prosecuting Authority.Chris Steyn (01:46.542)Now, over the years, what information have you received on the whereabouts of the Guptas?Jacques (01:53.187)There's nothing that we know about their whereabouts that is not available publicly. From what we understand, they fled to the United Arab Emirates where they went into hiding after The Hawks tried to apprehend them here in the luxurious homes in Johannesburg. And from there on, apparently there are rumours that they may have moved back to India at the moment, but that's still unclear. But that is something that the National Prosecuting Authority, in cooperation with people like Interpol, would be able to resolve quite easily if they just put the political will into a matter.Chris Steyn (02:26.414)Please remind our viewers how much did they allegedly steal from South Africa?Jacques (02:33.181)Well, the estimates differ, but if we look at the testimony that came out before the State Capture Commission and we look at investigative reports that have been done by journalists and media houses, then it's estimated that roughly between 50 and 70 billion South African rand flowed to Gupta-linked companies. And that is such a large amount of money. I personally have a hard time picturing it as a digit. I can only think of it as a word, you know, there's just too many zeros. So that's the type of money that we talk about here. And then we also shouldn't forget about how many people locally were implicated in those matters. And we still haven't seen any prosecutions.Chris Steyn (03:15.352)Please remind our viewers which politicians enabled the Guptas to fleece the country to that extent.Jacques (03:20.311)Well, of course, we know that there was a very close relationship between them and former president Jacob Zuma, as well as his family members. Duduzane Zuma, for instance, I know he had a very cozy relationship with the Guptas. People like former Free State Premier Ace Magashule, he had very close connections with the Gupta family, his family as well. We know that the news channel that they ran for a while was used to…of the people that definitely was boosted through that was Ace Magashule. You know, he got a lot of air time coverage positively. The channel was also used to spin ANC and government failures in a positive light. And yeah, many more other politicians were implicated in the various scandals.Chris Steyn (04:07.533)Now, what do you believe is behind this delay? I mean, we've heard implausible explanations. What do you think?Jacques (04:17.238)Yeah, well, I'd be speculating. It could simply be...incompetence from the National Prosecuting Authority side. If we look at how many of the major court cases have gone the last while, I won't be surprised if that is the case.It also could be that there's still some political protection that they receive from South African politicians. And I think the main reason for that would be that there are other people who are still implicated in their misdeeds as well. People who aren't hiding in the UAE, but people who are still living within the borders of our country. So I think that might be one of the reasons. But hopefully, Advocate Mothibi will reply to our letter and give us some clarity regarding this matter.Chris Steyn (04:58.989)So you do think they might still have high level protection in South Africa.Jacques (05:04.554)Well, I think it's more people trying to protect themselves, looking out for their own interests, because if the Guptas go down, then obviously those who enabled them to commit crimes will have to go down with them. And I think that might be a situation that we're looking at at the moment.Chris Steyn (05:19.117)And do you think there are people who were involved with them who have not yet been exposed?Jacques (05:25.865)Well… That's quite possible. That's quite possible. But even if we look at the testimony in front of the State Capture commission, I think it was close to 100 politicians who were implicated in various misdeeds relating to State Capture. And we haven't seen prosecutions. I mean, it's absolutely dumbfounded. So this is definitely something that we're not going to let go. Even if it takes us years, we've, I think we've proven ourselves that we don't let matters go.Look at the Julius Malema case for instance, the firearms case that took us eight years of continuous pressure and continuous following up to ensure that justice was served and it was eventually and we're planning to do the same with this Gupta matter.Chris Steyn (06:09.421)I mean, we've seen a pattern of cases involving high ranking politicians never getting to court. Do you think this might be one of those?Jacques (06:22.603)Well, that's exactly why we are inquiring and why we are busy starting up this issue and keeping it alive in the public opinion domain as well, because that's what we don't want to see happen with this case. That has happened too many times in South Africa and we cannot allow it to continue. We cannot allow the creation of a system where some people believe that they are above the law and others are not. I mean, equality before the law is one of the basic building principles of a democratic society. That's what separates us from a monarchy or kingship or a dictatorship. So if we want to continue claiming that this is a democracy and a vibrant democracy, as government loves to do so often, then prove it. Show us that the law has a real value.Chris Steyn (07:09.207)So if you are fobbed off with more excuses, what would be the next steps be for AfriForum?Jacques (07:16.043)Well, we'll definitely put our legal team on the matter to look at various different options because this is something that simply cannot be let slip like so many cases have already been. We have seen in the past that continuous pressure and looking at other legal avenues and options do make a difference and it does bring results. So that's what we'll do with this case as well.Chris Steyn (07:41.709)While I have you here, which other big cases are you pursuing at the moment?Jacques (07:47.497)Well, one of the cases that I'm personally involved with that we filed recently was another firearms related case against a mayoral member of Johannesburg committee who also recklessly discharged a firearm into the air. And we are busy following that up because even though those charges have been laid, we haven't seen any action from the police yet again because it's a politician and apparently it's a sensitive case, according to some high ranking police officials, which in our opinion is absolutely horrible because it's not sensitive because it's a politician. We all have the same rights and we all have the same responsibilities. Because you're a politician doesn't mean that you won't get arrested for committing crimes. If other people get arrested every day for discharging firearms and reckless manners, then why on earth is it a sensitive matter when it comes to a politician?Chris Steyn (08:40.279)And who else is in your sights.Jacques (08:45.247)Well, it's not a matter that we have sights that we are actively looking for people. Unfortunately, the situation in South Africa has become so bad that these things just pop up on your Facebook timeline every single day. There's constantly people abusing their positions of power and there's constant failure by the South African Police Service and the National Prosecuting Authority to act. So these are things that we monitor. What we usually do is when we see, we become aware of issues like this is we give it time, we stand back to see whether the NPA and the SAPS are going to act and do their jobs. And when they don't, then we intervene. And that's what we do in this case as well.Chris Steyn (09:27.735)Thank you. was Jacques Broodryk of AfriForum on the trail of the elusive Guptas, those poster boys of State Capture, thank you. And I'm Chris Steyn for BizNews.