Juanita du Preez: The “Cat” that almost captured the country…

More jaw-dropping details are emerging of the links between underworld boss “Cat” Matlala and law enforcement officers. In her latest interview with BizNews, Juanita Du Preez of Action Society tells Chris Steyn that she felt sure he looked so grim in court the past week because “he thought he knows who the person is that wants to be the next ANC President and then the country's President. And that's why he played his cards in that way. And now that hope has crashed. So he doesn't have that protection.” Du Preez also comments on the police revelations today that a close associate of suspended Deputy Police Commissioner Shadrack Sibiya has 29 cases against him - and that a SAPS employee had accessed the Criminal Records system to make adjustments to his records. “I am so happy that the connection he had…who fiddled with his record, wasn't smart enough to change it on the back end as well, because that is where the information is now coming from. It's still on there. So you can delete it in the front, but it stays in the back. Now we can pinpoint, this person was the one pressing the button.” As for the excuses NPA Chief Shamila Batohi came up with before the Ad Hoc Committee for not yet bringing the Guptas to justice, Du Preez charges: “These are the people who stole South Africa to the brink of poverty and created a culture for other people to follow in their footsteps. And it's not urgent for you.”.Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox at 5:30am weekdays. Register here.Support South Africa’s bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here.If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here..Watch here.Listen here.Edited transcript of the interview.Chris Steyn (00:01.67)The “Cat” that nearly captured a country. That is how it's beginning to look as more and more details are emerging of the links between underworld boss Cat Matlala and law enforcement officers, very senior ones, that is. With me is Juanita Du Preez of Action Society. Welcome JuanitaJuanita Du Preez (00:22.648)Good afternoon, Chris. Thank you for the opportunity.Chris Steyn (00:26.448)You are welcome. Let us go to the Metro that was practically captured by Cat with the help of the Metro Police Chief, the acting Metro Police Chief, who practically outsourced law enforcement to him.Juanita Du Preez (00:44.654)100%; when I read about that and I heard everything, I just thought, so this guy was living a royal life. He was doing just what he wanted to, Cat. Just imagine the power that this guy had. He had private cars posing as police cars with blue lights and red lights and whatever the light’s colour might be. O know there was a distinction. And he just, he could, him and his partner at the time could drive right up to the airport inside. That's how much power they have. They can, they could move anywhere they wanted to. They could do whatever they wanted to. And then also him walking into police stations. I also saw that one just walking around there as if he had the right to do that. This guy, there's just no, he was just almost the most powerful person in the law, well, law enforcement field. But yeah, it's mind blowing to now realise just how far his reach went.Chris Steyn (02:03.772)And this is one of the Big 5 cartel bosses in South Africa having a free pass.Juanita Du Preez (02:11.102)Exactly. I was wondering if, well, we know about him. Some of the others, we don't have confirmation on the names yet. But is it only him who has this free pass or did it extend to them or did they have the same kind of deal with whoever made the decisions or gave the permission? But it just it just shows that these guys could do whatever they wanted to. And it is not a surprise that they did what they wanted to do because they knew they could get away with it. They had, they, I want to say they were very smart in working out where to make the connections, to have the networks, to do whatever you want to, because it seems like a very well thought out plan to get your hands on exactly what you wanted to. But they weren’t as smart as they thought. So because they were people who still have integrity and for who it is not the money that talks, but who actually who are concerned for the safety of South Africans and who understands that it is their work to keep South Africans safe. So we are very thankful for those people, but they got away with it for so long. Again, hoping this will be a commission with consequences because otherwise it's just a fact-finding mission, yeah, just proving what we all suspected.Chris Steyn (03:50.172)And that EMPD acting chief who has now been suspended, the Madlanga Commission hearing that he even ordered officers to clean up a crime scene, put a body on a bakkie, dump it in a dam. This man died during interrogation from torture, from old style tubing, and had told the officers that he had R500,000 at home.Juanita Du Preez (04:19.022)He is a person who should never ever ever in his life ever again be in any position of authority. And if I'm not mistaken, there were calls for him to be investigated, to move away. And why not? Why did it not happen? Why did it go on so long? Probably because of the connections and the people protecting him, because he was doing favours and other people were doing favours for him. It's so wide, but I'm very thankful that he's now out of the picture. He should get the consequences. It should not just be golden handshake again, like we have seen in the past. He should really pay the fee that he is due.Chris Steyn (05:15.676)Now that same officer, there was footage of him stealing copper cables during an illegal raid. I mean what did he not get up to?Juanita Du Preez (05:25.826)Yeah, he is a criminal who was working in the police. And what a better set-up for a criminal. You work in police so you can make sure that evidence disappears, that the wrong people question you, the right questions are never asked, and there are no consequences. It was a great setup for him. And thankfully it is coming to an end now.But it makes me think with all the cases that Action Society is involved with, how on the ground is he the only crooked cop or well, middle management cop that's like that? Because he gives such a bad name to the police officers who want to work there, who want to protect South Africans, who were born to do that job. And now people think, officers, you can't trust them because this one guy is a crook, he's a criminal. But then it also makes me think the vetting and everything that goes into putting somebody in a position like that, did that fail? Did he only start becoming a crook inside the police? What were the reasons? What was he not paid enough and he needed to make ends meet? It doesn't seem like it because he it seems like he wasn't even picky about the crimes he did. He just did anything. So there are some questions that I just as a matter of interest would like the answers to. But yeah, let's get all of these guys. Doesn't matter which level of management or how low in the rankings you are. Get all of these people out. We don't want them looking after us.Chris Steyn (07:25.284)Well, he was certainly not the only one in his department because it emerged that there are 275 of them working with criminal records there.Juanita Du Preez (07:35.522)Yes, when that came out, it was big news. At Action Society, we made a big deal about it when it came out that so many teachers have a criminal record, which is unacceptable, but for obvious reasons, because you don't want a criminal in contact with your child.But now we realise, but the people who are supposed to police the criminals are the ones with the criminal records. I am sure for many people, it doesn't come as a shock. But just to have the proof to hear 275 people do have criminal records and they are working in the police force. I mean, how on earth?Chris Steyn (08:24.336)Well, in one department.Juanita Du Preez (08:26.452)in one department, not just even... you know it's so shocking.Chris Steyn (08:33.062)Well, I'm sure that you are also looking forward to the testimony of Cat Matlala when the Ad Hoc Committee moves to prison. Apparently, he's very eager to testify. Let's hope he doesn't get Epsteined before then. Now.Juanita Du Preez (08:50.574)Yeah, I'm sure he is very eager to give his side of the story because obviously he wants to now cover his back and say, but I'm not going down alone. I'll take everybody with me. But yeah, but it seems like he still wants to control everything like he was used to. He wants not to come out of the police cell. They must come to him. And he's still trying to rule the roost even from prison. So, yeah, and because he's afraid of the police and he's afraid that something might happen if they brought him to Cape Town. But again, like I've said in the past, should have thought about that, my friend.Chris Steyn (09:33.371)I think his fears are probably founded because he has now made many enemies. Now, over to the Ad Hoc Committee where it was the Ministry’s Chief of Staff, once again, giving testimony of a meeting between former police minister Senzo Mchunu and the African National Congress's former election fixer Brian Mogotsi.Juanita Du Preez (10:09.624)Yeah, so this person is now confirming what Mchunu said it didn't happen or didn't exist. Yeah, you should think about the people that's working around you because they are keeping their eyes open and they know what is happening. But again, why was this person your high up when you're the staff manager? Why do you not question that. Why do you let it slide? I get so tired of everybody. Yes, it's great. Everybody is telling their side now, but why did they not do it earlier? Why did they not say, listen, something is up? Maybe he did, but we don't know all the exact details.I get so tired of people just standing by, seeing that something bad is happening and not acting. Because that is the problem that we have in South Africa. So many people know and see something that is, you hear next door a child, something is happening to a child and you just turn away. Then you are just as guilty. It is the same thing. We should look out for each other and speak up when you see something is happening.Juanita Du Preez (11:30.338)Don't make it somebody else's problem.Chris Steyn (11:33.564)But we've also heard about how people who have tried to blow the whistle were suspended, hit with false charges, malicious prosecutions. And I think some people don't speak up because they're scared, and others have seen what can happen to them.Juanita Du Preez (11:52.256)It is definitely a risk. is something you have to consider that there might be risks. But if we are all afraid and we don't act, then we cannot expect there to be any changes. If everybody is afraid and everybody just turns a blind eye to the bad things that are happening, then there is no hope.Chris Steyn (12:20.54)Over to the suspended Deputy National Commissioner Shadrack Sibiya. He's associate bodyguard, legal advisor, unclear as to exactly what he is. He was with him in Parliament and the general was driving his bakkie when the police raided his place. So he was so offended by what was said about him at the Madlanga Commission that he went to lay defamation charges because he felt his character had been impugned.There's just been a press conference where it has emerged that there are what 29 cases against him, 10 of motor vehicle theft, 8 of car hijacking. Also that a SAPS employee accessed the Criminal Records system and made adjustments to his records. So maybe that's why he felt he could go and lay a charge because he must have thought that there was nothing to be found. But once again, they underestimated the police in KZN.Juanita Du Preez (13:22.734)Well, he underestimated many things. I was also watching the press conference and so it's laughable that you want to sue for defamation, but there is no character to protect really. You are a crook. It's right there. And I think you're right. He thought it was clear from the system.Juanita Du Preez (13:47.982)The last thing before I switched off was him applying for firearms licenses and for competency. Also on that, there was some sleight of hand going around and it was at the same station all the time. And then finally in the Richards Bay, but then in Gauteng, it was approved. Yeah, it is very clear that he had connections, but...I am so happy that the connection he had…who fiddled with his record, wasn't smart enough to change it on the back end as well, because that is where the information is now coming from. It's still on there. So you can delete it in the front, but it stayed in the back. Now we can pinpoint, this person was the one pressing the button. This was the police station where it happened. So I'm very happy that this person was incompetent in doing exactly what he should. Yeah, unfortunately, with things like firearms and records, and this is not for petty theft kind of charges. Like you said, it's motor vehicle, it's hijacking, it's violent crimes that that he had on his name and some of them were pulled back, some of them withdrawn, some of them just completely wiped from the system. But he does have convictions, it's, with the competency, the reason why it was the first...Chris Steyn (15:22.054)But he has convictions.Juanita Du Preez (15:34.734)I think it was three times or four times it failed was because they could see on the system that there was a pending criminal case against them. Then you can't get your competency. But then afterwards in Gauteng, that was no longer an issue, but the things were still pending. Yeah, so everybody who had a friend in Cat and colleagues seems to have...picked the fruits and they had a jolly, real nice life where they could basically do just what they wanted to with no real consequences.Chris Steyn (16:14.68)And Cat seemed to have been working his way up to the throne, the uncrowned king. So I think that he can't be a very happy man. He looked very grim when he appeared in court this week on the attempted murder and money laundering charges. Also in court this week was alleged murder mastermind, KT Molefe, still on bail.Juanita Du Preez (16:43.862)Yeah, his big friend KT. Just quickly back to Cat. I'm sure he looks grim because he thought he knows who the person is that wants to be the next ANC president and then the country's president. And that's why he played his cards in that way. And now that hope has crashed. So he doesn't have that protection. And now everything is coming into the public eye so he doesn't have his plans in place and he's in prison. Not that it means he doesn't have any power there. We know people speak. There are great things happening in correctional services, but if you plug it one place, it just comes out another place. It's a big job there. And our friend Cat, let the court cases continue. Let's see what happens then.Chris Steyn (17:43.036)But still no arrest in the case of Tembisa Hospital Loorinf Kingpin Hangwani Maumela.Juanita Du Preez (17:53.374)I wonder, and I also saw the Shamila Batohi speaking from the NPA, because that is linked. And I was actually a little bit disappointed. I always thought she's kind of a good person and it looks like she knows what she's doing and so on. But then later on it started like, but why is that not happening? Why is that not happening?Juanita Du Preez (18:23.02)And from her questions, I mean her answers in the committee and the commission, I can't remember where who is now, in the committee, everything was there. The takeaway I got from her was there was no real urgency for her in doing all of these things because they asked the question and she said, yes, I will definitely write a letter.Juanita Du Preez (18:49.966)It's not like Mkhwanazi made this statement a day ago. This has been coming for a long time and I'm sure they were informed of this even before his big press statement. Why now do you say, yes, I still have to? Why is the letter not written yet? And then with the Gupta people not coming back to the country. Yes, it was turned down, but we'll write another request and we'll change the wording and add some other charges. Where is the urgency? These are the people who stole South Africa to the brink of poverty and created a culture for other people to follow in their footsteps. And it's not urgent for you. You have not written this letter yet.I'm very disappointed in her because I thought the NPA should jump on this. Why are they, like we said last time, why aren't they standing outside with their little letters to say, this is what we are gonna arrest you for, we're gonna investigate you for this and that. Where is the urgency people? We're in a crisis.Chris Steyn (20:04.476)Well, her record with the prosecution of State Capture cases is pretty dismal. She's not leaving in glory.Juanita Du Preez (20:11.598)That's, yeah, it's not at all. And yeah, it's I wouldn't want to have that reputation. It's such a prestigious position to be in. And you can really bring such a change to South Africa in such a position. And she just did not use that. It was, yeah, I think. All I can say is I'm so disappointed in her because she had all the potential and this is what we have.Chris Steyn (20:49.713)I'm with you. Was there anything else this week that stood out for you?Juanita Du Preez (20:56.51)We are always busy with our Action Society cases. So what I was thinking, and I saw that you spoke to Ian Cameron as well. And what we keep on thinking is what, and he mentioned that as well, is yes, we have the commission and we have the committee and everything is coming out, but how does this affect the people on the ground, the police officers, the public, the victims of criminals because it's not just high level corruption, criminals and crimes; they have their tentacles everywhere. So if there's drugs involved, it could be all the way down to the floor, we want to know, because our lives continue….it doesn't really have an effect how will this affect us and will it affect us? I do hope that when we, I hope it brings consequences and changes and that it filters down to the public and the good people who's doing their jobs in the end because yeah, then it will affect us. But at the moment it's all fun to watch and to see the shock and awe but we don't really feel it on the ground yet.Chris Steyn (22:28.828)Well, at least there's been public naming and shaming instead of the cover-up that preceded that press conference. Thank you, Juanita. But before I go, I want to say thank you to our biggest fan, Garth Brook in Clarence, who writes us the most wonderful letters of support and who has dubbed our chats the Chatterley Show. Thank you so much, Garth. Juanita Du Preez (22:51.15)Thank you, Garth.Chris Steyn (22:58.0)That was Juanita Du Preez of Action Society speaking to me, Chris Steyn. Bye

Juanita du Preez: The “Cat” that almost captured the country…

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