Listen here.In this interview with Chris Steyn, Barry Bateman of AfriForum’s Private Prosecution Unit talk about the criminal prosecution now being faced by both ANC secretary general Fikile Mbalula and EFF leader Julius Malema “This is the second case where AfriForum’s Private Prosecution Unit has succeeded in convincing the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) that a politician (Mbalula) should be prosecuted for crimen injuria after branding Jaco Pieterse, the former Bergview College principal, a child rapist.” “We are primarily established for the case of selective prosecution where the NPA or the police declined to pursue certain matters because of the status of certain individuals. Often it's politicians, but often it's also wealthy people.” In another victory for the unit, it has secured another costs order compelling the NPA to cover the costs of successfully privately prosecuting a rapist. Meanwhile, AfriForum CEO has also offered private prosecution assistance to the families of the women murdered in Ekurhuleni. “The system has collapsed and women are certainly being abandoned by the criminal justice system…our doors are in fact open to any person who requires any kind of assistance within the criminal justice sphere.”.Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox every morning on weekdays. Register here.Support South Africa's bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here.If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here..Edited transcript of the interview.Chris Steyn (00:00.859)African National Congress SG Fikile Mbalula, who is known for some outrageous social media posts, is going to join Commander in Chief of the Economic Freedom Fighters, Julius Malema, in facing criminal prosecution. With me is Barry Bateman of AfriForum’s Private Prosecution Unit. Welcome, Barry.Barry (00:23.49)Thank you very much for having me, Chris.Chris Steyn (00:25.883)Please give us the details. Two politicians facing criminal prosecution.Barry (00:28.162)Yeah, quite right. So it was yesterday, Monday, that we got confirmation from the National Prosecuting Authority that our representations to them in relation to the crimen injuria case opened by Matatiele, former principal, Jaco Pieterse, against Mbalula for calling him a rapist, that they had been successful and the NPA had now decided that they're going to prosecute him on that particular charge. This follows about two or three weeks ago where the NPA also confirmed that they will be prosecuting Malema, who also referred to the principal as a rapist. Two separate cases, so different criminal complaints at different police stations, but on essentially the same facts of falsely referring to Mr. Jaco Pieterse as a rapist and violating his right to dignity. So we hope that they will be, we'll get them into the dock very soon and these trials can get underway.Chris Steyn (01:25.403)Does it take a lot of pressure from your side to get the NPA to get moving?Barry (01:30.782)Not particularly. I mean, there was a specific hiccup that we had encountered. So the cases were opened up in about June last year, if I recall. We established that towards the end of last year, in December already. The NPA in the Mbalula matter had made the decision not to prosecute. So we did a PAIA application and we got a copy of the docket. And on perusing the docket, we established that there was just one statement in it. And that was the statement of Jaco Pieterse, the complainant’s statement. No other evidence.So we then fired off our representations to the DPP's office, basically saying this is entirely irrational. You can't make a decision not to prosecute and there's no evidence in the docket. Once we had put forward a compelling case explaining why there is in fact a case against Mr. Mbalula and setting up the legal principles involved, his right to dignity and so on, the reappointed, he's back, Andrew Chauke, had a look at the facts and...came to the decision quite easily that there is indeed a case…to answer to and authorise the prosecution.Chris Steyn (02:34.865)Now, meanwhile, you have also obtained an order to compel the National Prosecuting Authority to refund the costs of a private prosecution of a rapist.Barry (02:49.6)A big victory for us. This is the third time that we've had a cost order of this type, but this one relates to a case done in the Eastern Cape against a man called Isaac Andile Memese, who had raped a woman, Celeste Gouws, in 2017. We got involved…, eventually got it to trial, and we managed to successfully prosecute him and send him to jail earlier this year. So it came as a significant relief when he applied…for leave to appeal, which was dismissed as well. Advocate Gerrie Nell put in the application for the costs order. And the NPA has now been ordered to pay for all our costs. Now this is for several years of having to drive down to the Eastern Cape to appear in court. It was an incredibly difficult case to go through given the logistics of it. But we ensured that we were there every time. I'm talking dozens of times we had to go down there over a span of several years. Now, the NPA is going to have to pay for that because we have effectively done their job for them. Just to touch on the previous ones, and it's kind of significant if you look at the theme of the cases here. We had the case of Ms. Ntabiseng Sebothoma, which was in Mamalodi. She was assaulted by a male neighbour.And then we had the case of Alexi Bizos having assaulted his ex-wife. So in all these cases, you're seeing the theme, gender-based violence, where the NPA throws up its hands, doesn't proceed with these matters, and we come in with private prosecutions and succeed. Particularly relevant if you're looking at what's happening in Ekuhuleni in the last couple of weeks and the State's renewed commitment to deal with gender-based violence. We say, unfortunately, it's going to be short-lived. The system has collapsed and women are certainly being abandoned by the criminal justice system.Chris Steyn (04:42.524)Well, AfriForum CEO Kallie Kriel has offered private prosecution assistance to the families of those women murdered in Ekurhulenii.Barry (04:52.8)Indeed, our doors are in fact open to any person who requires any kind of assistance within the criminal justice sphere. We're obviously not saying that we will assist or even can assist, but anybody who approaches us with a problem and they set it out, we will assess it and establish whether indeed there is scope for us to assist.But again, just going back to the issue of gender-based violence and these families who've been affected by these horrendous murders, there's a lot of attention on these cases now, but we've experienced it. Give it a couple of months… then become years and then become more and the State tends to forget about these victims of crime. So while there's hype in this focus now, that cycle will turn and eventually they will become like, unfortunately that is our suspicion, will become like the rest of them. And in cases like that, the public is encouraged to approach us for assistance.Chris Steyn (05:42.546)Barry, I just want to check, has the NPA coughed up for the previous cost orders?Barry (05:49.548)Yes, in the Sebathoma one, we managed to get the cost order there. It got to the point where we had to get the Sheriff to go and serve papers on them and on the brink of attaching furniture of the National Prosecuting Authority before they eventually coughed up. So it takes a little bit of fighting to get it out of them. But like all these processes, and you've seen it before, it takes years and months to go through the court. It's a process that you have to work through, but we eventually get it to the end.On this latest cost order, we've now got the order. The next step is to put together the actual invoice and have it taxed and there's certain requirements in… But we'll get it.Chris Steyn (06:24.498)I imagine it must have been extremely expensive. A private prosecution must be so costly.Barry (06:32.821)It is very costly. It's certainly out of the reach of your average person in the street. You've got to pay the people who are your prosecutors. In this case, we've got two advocates, Advocate Gerrie Nel and Advocate Phyllis Voster. And then we've got the detectives, the investigators from our office that are involved as well. And then, of course, the transport costs. In the Mamelodi case, the Sebathoma, it wasn't too expensive because it's right here in Tshwane.But the one all the way down in the Eastern Cape is going to be a significant bill. I can't put a number on it at this stage. It's still got to be tallied, but it will be significant.Chris Steyn (07:06.45)Well, I hope you don't have to go and attach their computers before they pay up, Barry. Meanwhile, have you seen the video of that tenderpreneur threatening to kill women in the powder room at the Sandton restaurant?Barry (07:20.319)Absolutely horrendous, but it speaks to an arrogance of somebody who appears to, there's a sense of entitlement, and he specifically referred to his wealth and his status as being elements that would protect him from any kind of consequence for what he's doing. And you know, that's precisely why our office exists. We primarily are established for the case of selective prosecution where the NPA or the police declined to pursue certain matters because of the status of certain individuals. Often it's politicians, but often it's also wealthy people. Now this particular case would explain somebody who has that kind of mindset that believes that they could get away with anything they want because of who they are and what they have. Fortunately, it was recorded and it was put onto social media, so there is a focus on this particular conduct. And it does appear that there has been swift action. So that is encouraging.But it's unfortunately evidence or a symptom of the society that we live in and how people can escape accountability.Chris Steyn (08:25.01)I trust that you will keep an eye on this case and ensure that he doesn't get away with it as he threatened to. I can kill you and walk away.Barry (08:34.689)Well, we're obviously not involved in the case, if the complainants feel that they are not getting proper service from the authorities, they are more than welcome to approach our office and we'll assist where we can.Chris Steyn (08:47.046)Are there any other prosecutions in the pipeline that you would like to share with us?Barry (08:52.609)Well, also another interesting development that we've had in the last week, and it relates to Fikile Mbalula, and that is the Dubai holiday investigation. You recall that going all the way back to 2017, his holiday that he took overseas that was paid for by …sporting goods supplier. There was a decision made there at a very high level that there was no evidence to prosecute. And we then made representations to the National Director of Public Prosecution. And we set out comprehensively in almost a 30-page document why there is indeed a case… because the NPA made a decision that because it was a loan and he paid back the loan with interest, therefore it cannot be a gratification. And they could also not prove that there was a specific quid pro quo, that he did something in exchange for the money. But that's not what the legislation says and that's not what the case law says. First off, a loan is a form of gratification. It is specifically in the definition in the act. So you can't rely on that to not prosecute. And the issue of a quid pro quo, the law is again also quite clear. All you need to do is create the dynamic where the person who is receiving the gratification is thereafter indebted to the other person to do something. It doesn't matter whether they actually do it. They don't even need to have the power to actually do it. It's that dynamic that creates the completion of corruption. And we say that there's sufficient evidence in the docket to support that case.But what we got from Advocate Andy Mothibi, this is the important part, he says that he has had a look at our representations and reports from various parties within the NPA. And he has referred the matter back to The Hawks to speedily investigate certain aspects in order to strengthen the State's case. That's the precise wording. We infer from that is that he agrees there is indeed a case that Mbalula must answer to. It's just a matter of strengthening it in certain respects.So that is encouraging and we hope to have that matter on the court roll. Well, we hope to have a decision first before we even get there, but we believe it is heading in the right direction.Chris Steyn (10:58.992)And Mr. Mbalula has presidential ambitions.Barry (11:03.477)Well, the NPA must prosecute without fear, favour or prejudice. Let's hope whatever those ambitions might be, they have absolutely no bearing on the decision that will be made, which must be made on the facts in the docket. And everyone must be equal before the law.Chris Steyn (11:19.728)Indeed. Thank you. was Barry Bateman of AfriForum's Private Prosecution Unit speaking to BizNews. I'm Chris Steyn. Thank you, Barry.Barry (11:28.834)Thanks so much, Chris.