One day after the Local Government Elections in South Africa, in this interview with Chris Steyn - just after four o'clock and with 43% of the results in - political commentator Solly Moeng says Action SA leader Herman Mashaba and his party leadership need to listen to calls from voters not to go into coalitions with the ANC, but to work with the DA. “They have to find a way to respond to the people of South Africa who are saying we are punishing the ANC…his intentions are good, but I think he needs to take away this personal anger that he has against specifically Zille…they cannot sacrifice the will of the people because of personal feelings…” Moeng also comments on the performance of MKP, the FF, the PA, the EFF and other parties. “At least the people now have spoken. They've said to the ANC, we've trusted you long enough. We're slowly, slowly, slowly pulling the rug from under your feet. And that's the way to do it, slowly, slowly…so that it's not like an overnight thing and then they start blaming, I don't know what else, Jan van Riebeek.” As for US President Donald Trump’s party’s Midterm defeat, Moeng cautions: “...it's not time to celebrate Trump losing. Okay, we can do it. We private people can do it. But I think the people who are running foreign policy must spend more time lobbying…we need to work with America…we need foreign policy that is run by people who are not running around with emotions and old-era, Soviet era ideas about international relations.”.Listen here.Edited transcript of the interview.Chris Steyn (00:01.344)It is one day after the Local Government Elections in South Africa. It is just after four o'clock and we are sitting with forty three percent of the results. With me is political commentator Solly Moeng. Welcome, Solly.Solly Moeng (00:17.461)Hello Chris, yeah, it's a very exciting time…I was just looking at America the other day and it became very very clear that even Americans voters whether they in South Africa or in America or elsewhere in world they vote with their grocery bill. People forget that.And this is exactly what South Africans did. I'm very proud of South Africans, I really am, because even before, when I left Switzerland to come back here, people said, are you crazy? It hasn't changed. I said, but look at the falling ANC over time, over the years, all right; it hasn't gone up, it's falling. And it's a good thing that it falls gradually, so that it's not an overnight revolution and people start throwing stones all over the place. So I think it's a good thing. I'm proud of South Africans, I'm proud of the people of Joburg.Chris Steyn (01:01.75)Okay, let's look at the overall standing of the parties.Solly Moeng (01:03.893)Well, the last time I checked at 43% of the votes counted, the national picture is with the ANC still on about 32%, the DA 27%, MK 7.1%. Of course, we're still at 43% of the votes counted. There's still a lot to go, a lot must still shift. But what is very clear is that the ANC has dropped from its previous 40% domination to probably going to be at like 30, 29 % of the vote.…Action SA is going to be a kingmaker…. Action SA leadership is going to have to make a decision about what people are saying. They can't pretend not to be hearing. A lot of people, I've heard a lot of people calling into radio shows to say, guys, you need to work with the DA. They need to work, they can't work with the ANC because they don't want to work with the DA. They have to find a way to respond to the people of South Africa who are saying we are punishing the ANC…Chris Steyn (02:52.109)ActionSA leader, Mr. Herman Mashaba is getting really annoyed and irritated with people telling him to go in with the Democratic Alliance and he has made it clear that he will not decide who he's going to go into a coalition with until all the results are in and verified. But I think he's digging in his heels when it comes to the DA Solly. I I can't see him and Helen Zille coming to an agreement. What do you think?Solly Moeng (03:03.637)I don't know why.Solly Moeng (03:14.035)Yeah, it's a pity.Solly Moeng (03:20.628)Look, I like Mashaba as a person. I think his intentions are well and I trust that somebody like Mashaba will never either steal money or allow money to be stolen. He's the only politician in South Africa who's made his own money. He's never been accused of playing tricky criminal stuff. So his intentions are good, but I think he needs to take away this personal anger that he has against, specifically Zille. DA, but Zille's specifically.People of Joburg or Tshewane are saying in terms of their numbers, you guys, we trust you first. They're going to have to say, you know what, let's get into a room, you know, drink whiskey, wine, talk, talk…let bygones be bygones, because, you know, of course a lot of bad things happened in the past. We cannot deny those. Herman Mashaba has always been very willing to speak about what the DA has done to him, I think. But the people of Johannesburg and my birth city Johannesburg need help. You know, Tshwane needs help, Ekurhuleni needs help. So they cannot sacrifice the will of the people because of personal feelings against them. People have been calling into radio shows…to say, these guys must work together or Mashaba must stop being so angry at Zille.Chris Steyn (04:48.91)I see some people are suggesting that it would be a good idea for him to step down and let Doctor Nasiphi Moya take over as leader of the party. They feel that it would strengthen the party's chances in the 2029 elections as well, SollySolly Moeng (05:05.994)Yeah, I don’t see that happening anytime soon. It's an interesting thought but I think there are other people in the party who would like to be, who would want to be that leader. I think Nasiphi Moya is a great mayor of Tshwane,I think, but leading the whole party, I'm not sure that she's ready for that. I'm not sure that she wants that. I think that, you know, sometimes you take somebody who's very good at something, you give them something else and they fail at it. Because party politics is rough. There are personal agendas, hatred and this lady is a good administrator. She studied, she knows how to run an administration, she knows how to be on the ground, how to be responsive. I think that taking her away to make her a party leader, not at this stage, would be a big mistake. I understand why people are asking for that. But I think there are other people in the party who probably want to be there. And I don't see Herman Mashaba walking away today… He doesn't need to be there. The man doesn't need to work. You know what I'm saying? He's just doing this because he says he loves his country. So I don't see him walking away from the party leadership now.Chris Steyn (06:16.718)Former President Jacob Zuma is a happy man today. He looked strong and well when he spoke.Solly Moeng (06:24.478)Yeah… At eThekwinii, it's taking over a number of municipalities. I mean, it was expected to grow very fast in KZN. Of course, the DA has taken over again the municipality Chris Pappas is dominating. The people of that municipality are happy with the DA. But the rest of KZN is going to be MK, maybe DA, a little bit ANC, IFP. I don't know how well IFP is doing, maybe more in rural areas. MK is going to be a key player in that province, maybe slowly, slowly in the rest of South Africa while Zuma is around. And if he goes, we don't know what's going to happen.Chris Steyn (07:21.416)The DA practically declared a majority in Cape Town already.Solly Moeng (07:24.5)Yeah. The DA has done well. They couldn't wait to make their announcement in a press conference. I suppose it's confidence boosting, if you want. And again, we can't blame people in the Western Cape who would have looked at what has happened to other big metros in South Africa to want to bring all that stuff to Cape Town. I mean, of course, there are grievances against the DA, like they would be against any political formation anywhere in the world, but in politics you also look for the least of the devils. I think the people of the Western Cape are very clear about what they want. They're not as predictable as one would want them to be. Things work. Look, I live in a not wealthy part of Cape Town, but when I call the city to say the lines are not working, they're quite responsive. And I listen to my friends in Joburg who say we don't have water for three weeks. I was like, why would we want those people, people who don't know how to manage the most basic of services to come here and mess up in Cape Town. I mean, that's the truth. In the end, people just want things to work. They want safety. We have issues of security in Cape Town. Nobody must forget the issues of gangsters and violence, the killing and of course, rising costs. You know, the municipal rates, it's terrible. I mean, more and more people are being priced out of their homes. I think the DA is going to have to find other ways to make sure that the rich don't continue to live nicely while people who've owned their own homes for years, family homes, are being kicked out because they cannot afford the rates.Chris Steyn (09:07.736)Freedom Front Plus has done very well thus far.Solly Moeng (09:11.306)Yeah. I think it's quite interesting. It's all about the personalities. There are some really cool South Africans in the Freedom Front. It's not that scary, extreme Right-wing party anymore. It's a group of Afrikaners. I've got friends there who love to be in this kind of country. They're not out there to say, let's keep Exit or let's break up South Africa. They're angry, they're disappointed, but they're constructive angry. They still want to be part of the solution. And I've heard some black people say, yeah, I'm going to vote for the FF+. I say, yeah, well, it's cool. I mean, this is the kind of South Africa that we are, right? It doesn't matter where you come from in terms of your cultural, religious belonging, as long as you understand that there's something fundamentally important that makes us who we are in South Africa. I mean, I wouldn't be shocked if I voted FF +, one day, if they continue like this.Chris Steyn (10:12.95)Somebody who is looking very dejected today is EFF leader, Mr Julius Malema.Solly Moeng (10:19.604)Yeah, Malema, Malema, Malema. I have no sympathy for Malema. I think Malema has a way, and is very manipulative. Maybe all politicians are, but he's particularly manipulative. Now, suddenly he's been speaking against, you know, farm murders, which is good. But I think I would like him to also say, you know what, the judges were wrong to say it's okay to say ‘Kill the Boer, Kill the Farmer. So, because that song is wrong. Okay. The fact that the judges said, you know, it's nuanced. It needs an intellectual to explain to you that it doesn't really say what they say, but it's wrong to say it is okay to say that song. So Malema should condemn those things. Malema should stand for the unity of the people despite differences.I think sometimes when he speaks against a group of people, he generalises; he wants to over collectively punish the people. I think that that's where he gets it wrong. I've always said Malema doesn't have the temperament to lead a country as complex as South Africa. I still think that he doesn't have that temperament. Hopefully, you know, he will be humbled by these elections to rethink his strategy. I don't know which way he'd go, honestly.But yeah, look, it's good to have their voice in our bigger discussions about politics, South Africa, because they do contribute to part of who we are. EFF is part of who we are. But it cannot dominate. It cannot lead to that. What we need are parties with reason who understand that it's not just about you or your policies. It is about holding this really complex country of ours together. And if you don't have the temperament and the ethical way with our and the emotional intelligence to play that role that holds this country together, you cannot lead this country.Chris Steyn (12:09.624)Meanwhile, the Patriotic Alliance of Minister Gayton McKenzie doesn't seem to have performed as strongly as expected.Solly Moeng (12:17.174)Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't feel too painful for him either. A lot of people are always expecting him to come and give the DA a very big kick in the butt. But he didn't really. I mean…they've been part of a few municipalities. I had the list somewhere. But he hasn't, yeah, you're right, he hasn't come out as strongly…because they’re trailing…I think it's a good thing that he remains there. He has a voice. People with voices, I don't think they should be entirely removed from the system. Helen Suzman, Suzman had a voice. She was never going to be president of South Africa, but she had a voice that we needed. I think that every well-functioning democracy needs …people who say the things that need to be said, who scream if they want to scream…That's what I'm saying. So, McKenzie comes in, not everything that he says is wrong, of course…but the arrogance around him when he said when he travelled and he cost the taxpayer a lot of money; then he came back and said well he is used to travelling that way. Well maybe if you do so at his own expense, not at the expense of the people.So I think in the end the people of South Africa have spoken; we have more than 50 percent of the registered voters who came out to vote. It's a good thing. Some people were estimating there would be about 45 % participation in this election. It was just about mid-50s. In some cases it was up to 70 % in some municipalities. South Africans have come out to clearly say, we don't want this. We need to do more of that in 2028. But I think this particular get-together should learn from the mistakes that were made in previous coalition governments, and ensure that they have a clear route.Solly Moeng (14:13.752)Both Action SAand the DA have been talking about the rules and they are absolutely correct. They need to be clear about how coalitions work, what's acceptable, what's not acceptable, what mechanisms must be in place to make sure that anybody who steps out of their agreed framework is kicked out or brought to book one way or another. And I would like them to have a conversation at some point about the threshold to participate in, to have representation, whether at local legislatures or in the National Assembly. There's got to be, we've got to agree on something like 2%, 3%, I mean I would even say 5, maybe 3, 3%. Because I think you end up with all these small parties and I totally agree with Helen Zille, okay. All these parties, one main party who just on the basis of who's giving them bread with butter or bread with whatever they want to put on the bread, they vote this way or that way. And it's like they don't care about what the voters think, it's all about them. We can't have that. I think we've got to say if you have been voted, supported by the 3 % of people of South Africa, then you can get in. If not, where? Go and join a political party. It's a simple thing..like Mmusi Maimane...BOSA, I don't see them. I've been looking. I can't see BOSA anywhere. Okay, Rize Mzansi.. I don't know how much money was given to these people…Solly Moeng (15:43.328)To represent what? Who?Chris Steyn (15:45.526)The many millions that went to Rise Mazanzi.Solly MoengYeah, in the end it's an election, we're a democracy, okay? If the voters do not back you, it means there's something about your offering that doesn't speak to the voters, that doesn't appeal to the voters. But they occupy these fancy positions, should they be occupying them? Of course, that's a national government decision, you know, that put them where they're at. But I think that they need to come out and re-strategise. The fact is their parties are not appealing, they're not attractive to voters no matter how well spoken the two gentlemen are. So maybe they thought they had something cool, but maybe they don't because people are not voting for them. And they can't say they didn't have the money to campaign because they were given a lot of money by their backers.Chris Steyn (16:32.82)Mm, and people kept pouring more money into Rise Mzansi.Solly Moeng (16:37.354)Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, I think the leader of Rize Mzansi has been for a lot of...intellectuals in South Africa have been a very appealing person. He speaks well, he knows the media, he seems like a reasonable gentleman and all that stuff. And they said, yeah, this is the leader we need. Let's give him all the money. Let's throw all the money into him. He'll speak for middle South Africa, if you want. And I think that, look, I don't want to be unfair. I think he does. He speaks well. They address the right issues. But in the end, if they don't get to be given that stamp by the electorate, well, they might as well just, you know, go and work at universities and teach maybe these things at universities. Yeah.Chris Steyn (17:25.55)Stick to academia.I was surprised at the performance of the South African Communist Party, Solly.Solly Moeng (17:34.858)I had some people call in to say, I voted for the SACP to punish the ANC. I think a lot of people, Chris, who were hardcore members of the Tripartite Alliance, if you want would see a party like the DA very far, ideologically speaking, like a big jump if you want. Voting for the SACP, it enables them to say, yeah, I'll punish the ANC, but I didn't betray the revolution. Voting for the DA for a lot of people is betraying the revolution. I've had many people call me in Joburg, I kid you not, even people in the ANC, friends in the ANC, they said, I'm going to vote for the DA, okay? But I won't put it on social media. I'm not going to make noise about it, I'm just going to quiet it. So I think it's true. Action SA has taken a lot of votes from the ANC… it's very clear, okay? So people who are ideologically not ready to jump over to the DA, either they quietly voted for the…of course, or they voted for Mashabab because it's not such a big jump away from the black vote, if you want. Perceptions are still there about the DA being a white party, for the whites party…But people just want services. They want water, they want electricity, they want those potholes whether they are caused by climate change or incompetence, bad workmanship. They want those things to go away.I, who grew up in Johannesburg, when I go to Johannesburg today, when I go to Hillbrow, to Yeoville… then I cry. It's terrible. It's really bad. I don't understand why people defend that stuff. So at least the people now have spoken. They've said, the ANC, we've trusted you long enough. We're slowly, slowly, slowly pulling the rug from under your feet. And that's the way to do it, to slowly, slowly do it so that it's not like an overnight thing and then they start blaming, I don't know what else, Jan van Riebeek.Solly Moeng (19:41.848)So yeah, I think it's good. It's good. Chris Steyn (19:48.079)Talking about Donald Trump, he had a huge defeat. He suffered a massive defeat in the Midterms. I'd love to hear your take on that, Solly.Solly Moeng (19:59.388)It wasn't a wobble, it was like a wipeout. I think, again, the Americans were...we can say, gatvol, right? …Trump was not listening. They took away this Congress that just gave him whatever, the yes, man, yes, man, yes, yes, the Congress away… they took away the Senate. I mean, these are powerful institutions. Even though Trump is still left with, you know, the veto power, the control of much of the foreign policy and the famous or notorious…Solly Moeng (20:38.634)…executive orders, these are the bodies that decide on budgets, they can subpoena people, they can subpoena him, can investigate even things like Epstein, can say, well, let's go back to those files. So there's a lot of power that resides in Congress and the Senate. That is why Trump was out there at rallies every day. He went to about 32 rallies ahead of the elections. And the funny thing is that he went and said to people, each time he was saying, please vote as if I was on the ballot. And I think they did that. They voted as if the spectre of Trump was on the ballot. Now he's saying, no, if I were, I mean, he's amazing, man. He's truly amazing. So I think it's a good thing, but South Africans must be careful, Chris, especially the South African government. We were taken off of AGOA three days before the American elections. From January onwards, we are not on AGOA. That is a presidential prerogative in America. It's not for the Senate or for the Congress to decide on those things. So I think that we shouldn't be celebrating this thing.We sent a reasonably well manner to go and represent South Africa as ambassador to the USA. I think that we should give him the chance. We should not work against him. Right. So it's not time to celebrate Trump losing. Okay, we can do it. We private people can do it. But I think the people who are running foreign policy must spend more time lobbying, more time giving this ambassador, Roelf Meyer, tools and the people and the funds that he needs to get in there. It's a good thing that there'll be more opportunities to lobby these new representatives who are getting into government in January in America. I think that it's a good thing that there'll be more friends, if you want, who will listen to us. And hopefully they will not listen to us at the expense of us. You know what I'm saying? So I'm going to say that we need to be careful about being…Solly Moeng (22:49.878)We're having this false sense of patriotism. If the ANC's policies are not defensible at all, it's okay for me that somebody I would say fights them, criticises them. Okay? And I've said it and I've always said it. We, the people of South Africa, must decide what we are not happy with as South Africans and agree to have conversations about what needs to change. But if we don't do that, somebody who is not happy here at home, as it seems to have happened, is going to go out there and find enemies of us who are going to collectively punish us. Because the truth is, taking AGOA away from South Africa is collective punishment of the people of South Africa, of our economy because we can't sell our citrus fruit to America anymore under that agreement. We cannot sell our cars to America under that agreement and we cannot sell our wine. As a wine person, I feel…Solly Moeng (23:48.79)I think it's a good thing that the Americans, for their own sake, decided, look, we can't have a president who goes around;;;I think Trump, in my view, was not a cool president. If I were an American, I wouldn't be proud of him. I know that some people will, you know, hold me by the neck for saying that.But I think South Africa must continue to be smart. Of course, we must continue to be transactional in the way we deal with the world. It's not about who loves us, whom we love, who hates us. The Chinese don't love us or hate us. We must stop this thing that the Chinese didn't colonise us, therefore they love us. They are smart. They know how to play and they play for China. Chinese negotiators play for China. They don't play for Africa. We need to learn to play for South Africa, and we need to stop this nonsense that this one loves us more than the other. It's not about that. And we need to work with America. America is a big partner to South Africa. They have more than 600 companies invested here. They take into their market finished goods. They don't just come here to take raw material to America. So I think that we need foreign policy that is run by people who are not running around with emotions and old-era, Soviet era ideas about international relations.Chris Steyn (25:10.442)Indeed. Thank you. That was political commentator, Solly Moeng, speaking to BizNews. I'm Chris Steyn. Thank you, Solly.Solly Moeng (25:19.178)Thank you Chris..Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox every morning on weekdays. Register here.Support South Africa's bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here.If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here.