The NdB Sunday Show: Helen Zille - Debating the shadow of Kenny Kunene

For today’s NdB Sunday Show, Chris Steyn invited the Democratic Alliance's Helen Zille and the Patriotic Alliance's Kenny Kunene to debate. Only Zille made the show. She outlined her five commitments over five years should she be elected Joburg’s next Mayor. She also responded to previously reported attacks on her by Kunene, including that she is out of touch with Johannesburg's challenges; that she is a reject of Cape Town, and that she should stay at home and look after her great grandchildren, by saying: “Well, I'm sure I have got a lot more energy than Kenny Kunene because I've been all over Joburg all the time and I never see him… I only see him in the nightlife, in the nightclubs, in all the Instagram posts with the Slay Queens as they call them…He's got a busy life. He's got a busy night life. He's got a busy time running around between his different underworld connections and trying to get people not to contradict his statements. That's a busy life. I have a life focused...on meeting the people of Joburg, listening to the people of Joburg, listening to their solutions for the problems for Joburg and getting a plan together to fix Joburg. So I have a busy life doing that.” Zille also comments on the reasons behind PA Leader Gayton McKenzie’s relentless support for President Cyril Ramaphosa..Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox every morning on weekdays. Register here.Support South Africa’s bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here.If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here..Watch here:.Listen here:.Edited transcript of the interview.Chris Steyn (00:01.156)Welcome to the NDB Sunday show with me, Chris Steyn. Today's program was going to be a debate between the Democratic Alliance's Helen Zille and the Patriotic Alliance's Kenny Kunene. Helen is here, Kenny is not. Let's go ahead, Helen. Helen (00:20.376)Thank you very much Chris for inviting me to this debate. It's been my first online debate. I've never had an online debate before and you have given me the assurance that it works well. So I was interested to see how it would work in practice and looking forward to this debate with Kenny. But it seems that no one wants to debate me, Chris. I mean, Herman Mushaba, I know you asked first and he refused and Kenny said yes and I was pleased that he said yes because the residents of Joburg have every single right to hear what their mayoral candidates have to offer. But unfortunately, he has now reneged at the last minute as I understand it. And so here we are. So this will probably be an interview between you and me and that will be quite useful. I know that you asked me to start with a five minute introductory statement. Chris Steyn (01:12.932)Before you do, sorry, we are debating now, before you do, let me just say there appear to have been some communication problems on the Patriotic Alliance's side and with Kenny variously not being aware of the debate or it being a deal breaker if I was going to edit the debate in any way and he now wants a live debate with you. Helen (01:18.562)Yeah. Helen (01:45.048)Well, let's see. I mean, you gave the written assurance that you wouldn't edit the debate in any way that favoured any side and I took that assurance and he didn't take that assurance. So, you know, think frankly, I think they're looking for excuses not to do this debate. But let's see. Chris Steyn (02:02.672)Okay, Helen, please give us your opening statement, the opening statement you would have given to Kenny and then I'll try and cosplay Kenny. Helen (02:11.625)Are you going to try and play Kenny? Chris Steyn (02:14.448)Please give your opening statement. Helen (02:16.718)Right, thank you very much Chris. The DA is very serious about this election because we know that it is make or break for Johannesburg and so our major election campaign is being run under the headline Get JoBurg Working and we believe very strongly that we can get JoBurg Working with our plan. We've summarised our plan into pledges and we've released those pledges in a major launch last weekend, and we have given five commitments that we will meet over five years. It's very important for me to say that because we will not meet our pledges in the first year and not even in the second year because the city is so broken, but we will deliver our five commitments over five years and they are as follows. First of all, obviously the most important is to get reliable water and electricity for all residents. Now this morning I woke up, no electricity. So I went to a colleague of mine's apartment and here we are because there's no electricity in my place and I also live in a suburb that has been without water for a long time. So I really personally know why reliable water and electricity for all residents has to be our top priority. Now we will stop the stealing and wasting of money and we will ring-fence the money that comes in for water and for electricity. Currently that money goes into a general account and is used for who knows what. Helen (03:59.832)We all know the scandal about the four billion rand that arrived in the water account, which should have been spent on fixing the infrastructure of water, which is in such a desperate state. But it wasn't. It was swept out of the account into the general account and no one can say what happened to it. That kind of thing will stop on our watch. The second commitment we've made is roads that work. Now this obviously is highly relevant to Kenny Kunene because he has been the Mayoral Committee Member in the City of Johannesburg responsible for Roads and Public Transport and what has happened under him is that Roads and Public Transport have actually gone backwards over the five years that he's been in office and in fact he's going to claim a lot of progress with the Reya Vaya. Well I've got a lot of statistics on the Reya Vaya compared to the My City system in Cape Town and then you will see what a failure the Reya Vaya has actually been. But our commitment is to fill potholes within 72 hours, as I said not in our first year or our second year but at the end of our term. So if we're notified of potholes they will be fixed within 72 hours. We need to get 95% of the traffic lights working, repaint road markings, that kind of thing. And we will use modern technology to protect major intersections and stand up to rogue taxis. Now a big one is our third one. The biggest challenge that we face in Joburg is getting people into jobs. That is the most important way we can reduce inequality and reduce poverty in Joburg. So our pledge over five years is to attract 200,000 new jobs to Joburg. Now as you know, government doesn't create jobs. Businesses create jobs if they have confidence in a city that works. And that is why our contribution to getting jobs to Joburg is to get the city working. And once the city is working and everything is functioning and people have confidence in the future of the city, investment will return and jobs will return. And that is our pledge to the residents of Joburg. Then the fourth one obviously has to be law and order. Helen (06:20.194)…because there is such a violation of all the bylaws in Johannesburg that is very problematic and creates a very degraded quality of life for many residents. Now we won't have power over the Police Service, we won't. We will only have the Metro Police Service which is in itself broken in Johannesburg and we will use that Metro Police Service, turn it around, try and fix it and then make sure that bylaws are enforced and that hijacked buildings are reclaimed and that we stop land invasions. We will listen to our whistleblowers and we will protect our whistleblowers and we will deal with corrupt officials. We will certainly have systems that can reveal corruption. I'm not going to talk about them now because I don't want to give the corrupt advanced warning. And then our fifth pledge is to have a professional modern government a city that we can all be proud of and a city that can really live up to its name. Currently a complete misnomer, but can live up to its name of a world-class African city. And that is what we are determined to deliver for the residents of Joburg. Chris Steyn (07:36.611)Helen, it's not only members of your party, the Democratic Alliance, who would like to see you as mayor. There are members of other parties judging by what they post on social media who would like you as mayor. What feedback are you getting from members of other parties? Helen (07:55.0)Well the feedback I get across the board is that people are desperate for Joburg to work. People love Joburg. The residents of Joburg love Joburg. And they are a special breed of people because they get on with fixing things even though they've got a broken local government. Everywhere I go and yesterday I was in the greater Roodepoort area where I meet so many amazing people in so many different organisations doing so much to fix Joburg. One guy goes round on his motorbike for example and clears the debris that is clogging underneath the bridges that eventually pulls the bridges down. So I mean that kind of thing. People just do it without any remuneration on their own because they love Joburg and with that amount of passion about a city there's so many partnerships that we can build to get things done. Now people may well oppose the DA and many of them don't like me particularly, which is fine but the great saving grace is that they love Joburg and they will do anything to see Joburg fixed and that is the power behind this election. Chris Steyn (09:07.801)Helen, what are you going to do to get the biggest vote share to ensure that you are able to fulfill your promises and that you get the budget you need to make those promises a reality? Helen (09:22.606)Well, thank you very much, Chris. I mean, we've raised some money for this campaign and we're working very hard to spend it responsibly and reliably and effectively. All we need, and it's not a really big ask in a city of six million people, all we need is 490,000 people to come and vote DA on both ballot papers, because you remember that you have two votes in a local government election, that will bring us close to a million votes overall, and then that will determine the outcome, and we believe that will be enough to get an overall majority, that is over 50%. And if we get that, we won't have to be in these very difficult coalitions. Currently there's a multi-party coalition. Previously there was a nine-party coalition and you can't govern well in a coalition with eight other partners who can bring down the government at every meeting of council. And so then you're just trying to hold together a government rather than delivering on your pledges and promises. So if people really want DA delivery and if they want us to live up to our pledges, if we get over 50 % well then we're off to the races. .Read also:.The NdB Sunday Show — (Ret.)Col Chris Wyatt: How Trump is taking the ANC's allies off the chess board....Chris Steyn (10:44.611)What effect on the mayoral race has had the entry of, Mr. Herman Mashaba? Helen (10:53.004)Action SA, look, you know, I mean, we live in a democracy and anybody's free to start a party and contest the election. And then voters must make up their minds. Now, voters have seen what these unstable coalitions do… Helen (11:21.162)and every vote that goes to ActionSA comes away from the DA. And that means that it's much more likely that the ANC will end up the biggest party and be running the next government and you'll get more of the same. Because at the moment you've got the ANC and ActionSA together and a whole lot of smaller parties and that's because the ANC emerged as the biggest party in the last election and all the smaller parties inevitably and always end up gravitating towards the ANC and living off the ANC's favours. The DA won't play extortion politics so we don't go into that game. But in this election we have a real chance of being bigger than the ANC and quite a lot bigger than the ANC. So every single vote the DA loses means that the ANC has a better chance of being the bigger party and that gives them a much bigger chance of putting together a governing coalition. So it's really important for people not to split the vote and to make us the biggest party if they want to rescue Joburg. Chris Steyn (12:31.011)I would assume that you are gaining new members. Which parties are those members defecting from mainly? Helen (12:38.168)Yes. Helen (12:41.816)Well, we're getting more members, but that's not the really important thing. The really important thing is to get new voters, because we have many, many, many voters who aren't necessarily members of the DA. And people say to me, Helen, I'm not a member of the DA. I've never voted for the DA before. I don't actually like the DA and I don't like you, but I believe that you have the best chance of fixing Joburg, that the DA has the best chance of fixing Joberg. And I say, well great, we do have the best chance of fixing Joburg. And if you're voting for Joburg, you're voting for the DA. Chris Steyn (13:18.959)Judging by some by-election results, the Patriotic Alliance has had quite a surge in certain areas. How big of a threat do you think they are becoming to the Democratic Alliance? Helen (13:33.582)Well again, any vote that the Patriotic Alliance takes, it takes from the DA primarily. I mean not only of course, but primarily. And that of course again helps the ANC to become the biggest party. And then the PA inevitably and always folds under the wing of the ANC for protection. And the ANC is a party that will play the game of extortion of saying okay you're only getting one seat with the DA, now you get two seats with us and then Gayton comes back to us and says I want three seats from you and we say we don't play that game, and so they go under the wing of the ANC. So we've seen that everywhere the PA goes with the ANC and that's what's going to happen. You're going to get more of the same. So every vote for any of the smaller parties that is currently in the coalition of chaos and corruption in Johannesburg with the ANC, and that includes the PA and ActionSA, anyone who votes for the parties in the current setup will get the same setup, will get more of the same. It's as simple as that. Chris Steyn (14:42.422)In recent days, I had some interesting feedback from former Patriotic Alliance members who are upset at Leader Gayton and McKenzie's relentless support for President Cyril Ramaphosa. What do you say to that? Helen (15:01.112)Well, you have to understand it in this context, Chris. The Patriotic Alliance and Gayton McKenzie has the Sports, Arts and Culture portfolio in the National Government by grace and favour of Cyril Ramaphosa. They haven't got enough votes or enough support in the electorate to be able to put any pressure on the ANC and the Government of National Unity. Because if Gayton McKenzie were to leave the Government of National Unity, it would absolutely carry on without a blip. You can only have influence in the Government of National Unity if you have what is called the balance of power, like the DA has. Because if the DA were to pull out, the Government would fall. If the PA were to pull out, no one would notice. So, Gayton Mckenzie knows he's there by grace and favour of the ANC and Cyril Ramaphosa. We are there by grace and favour of the voters. They gave us enough votes to get 22% and the ANC with just under 40% can't govern without us. So we have the voters backing. But Gayton knows that if he alienates Cyril Ramaphosa he'll be out of his ministerial position overnight and no one will notice the difference except there'll be less jobs for pals in Sports Arts and Culture and less manipulation of tenders like the Galvindale swimming pool. So people will notice a cleaner government and a fairer government but they won't notice anything fundamentally different because the PA for the ANC is disposable in the National Government - and I would conclude that that is why Gayton McKenzie is so keen to stay on the right side of Cyril Ramaphosa Chris Steyn (17:06.264)Helen, do you have any doubt that you will be the next mayor of Johannesburg? Helen (17:11.394)You know, you can never be confident in politics. Politics is a tough place. It is a very tough place and people underestimate how tough it is. I always laugh at business people who come and say to me, Helen, we've done mergers and acquisitions and we know exactly how this thing works and let us do it. And sometimes we let them try and then they think, my goodness, thank goodness I've only got a business to run and don't have to try and run a political party. It is hard and very few people actually survive politics over the long term. The critical thing is not being a flash in the pan and getting somewhere on populism and other things. The critical thing is sustainability over time. And that is what the PA really doesn't have. Because to have sustainability over time you have to have a core political philosophy that you revert to in all situations. You have to have a strong internal democratic organisation which the PA certainly doesn't have. Gayton is quite proud of the fact that he issues instructions and that's the way things work there. And then finally, you need to be able to attract a lot of new real talent. And the real talent is deep and is difficult to find. And it's not just theatrics. Chris Steyn (18:37.006)Helen, if Kenny were here he might have accused you of being out of touch with Johannesburg's challenges, being a reject of Cape Town, and urged you to stay at home and look after your great grandchildren, as he has done before. Any final words for him in absentia? Helen (19:01.848)Well, I'm sure I have got a lot more energy than Kenny Kunene because I've been all over Joburg all the time and I never see him anyway. I only see him in the nightlife, in the nightclubs, in all the Instagram posts with the Slay Queens as they call them, being arrested at KT Molefe's place and being associated with the underworld of clubs and night clubs and DJs that get murdered and having excuses that don't add up and having investigations the results of which are never published but are spread all over as if they are an exoneration which they're not. He's got a busy life. He's got a busy night life. He's got a busy time running around between his different underworld connections and trying to get people not to contradict his statements. That's a busy life. I have a life focused...on meeting the people of Joburg, listening to the people of Joburg, listening to their solutions for the problems for Joburg and getting a plan together to fix Joburg. So I have a busy life doing that. I do see my grandchildren once a month and I love them dearly. But I can tell you this, the person who's more distracted from all sorts of fundamental roles that he should be playing by his other lives is Kenny Kunene. Chris Steyn (20:23.49)Thank you, that was Helen Zille, the Patriotic. Thank you. That was Helen Zille, the Democratic Alliance's star for Joburg with me, Chris Steyn, on the NdB Sunday Show. Thank you, Helen. Helen (20:37.794)Thank you very much, Chris. You tried your best to be Kenny, but it wasn't quite….

The NdB Sunday Show: Helen Zille - Debating the shadow of Kenny Kunene

Related Stories

Wayne Sussman - Gayton’s PA continues “weakening” the DA and the ANC (and all the mayoral dramas)

Helen Zille: Joburg’s fairytale budget - the madness has to stop now

Historic win for DA in ANC stronghold township - Electoral Roadshow with Wayne Sussman

Will Helen Zille’s new approach win Joburg?