The deepening crisis in the South African police force has seen generals toppled either through suspension or arrest. In this interview with Chris Steyn, Action Society's Juanita du Preez comments on the suspensions of the National Commissioner, the Mpumalanga Provincial Commissioner, and the Head of Supply Chain Management, as well as the arrests of the Gauteng Head of the Hawks and a Crime Intelligence boss - all following the Minister of Police being placed on special leave, and a deputy national commissioner being suspended. Other arrests include an MP and member of Parliament's Portfolio Committee on Police as well as a former African National Congress fixer. Du Preez also details the battle to get child rapists held to account as Action Society launched a national campaign for the release of the Sex Offenders Register as well as a PAIA application into failed prosecutions of cases involving very young children. Speaking from court today, Du Preez describes the despicable court room behaviour of accused Stephan Pretorius who is on trial for setting alight his estranged wife, Charlene, in front of their teenage daughter, causing her death. .Listen here.Edited transcript of the interview.Chris Steyn (00:02.827)The deepening crisis in the South African police force has seen at least a dozen generals toppled either through suspension or arrest. I speak to Action Society's Juanita du Preez. Welcome, Juanita.Juanita Du Preez (00:18.69)Good morning, Chris. It's nice to join you again.Chris Steyn (00:23.937)I can hear that you are at court. There's that echo. But thank you for making time. Yes, we still have the Minister of Police on special leave, a deputy national commissioner still suspended. Now we have seen the suspension of a national commissioner, the suspension of the head of supply chain management, the suspension of the Mpumalanga commissioner. And then we've had those arrests of the Gauteng Head of the Hawks and the Crime Intelligence boss. On top of that, we've seen an MP and a member of Parliament's Portfolio Committee on Police also arrested and out on bail. And then thanks to the Madlanga Commission of Inquiry, the African National Congress's former fixer, Brian Mogottsi, has also been arrested. Is this the big clean-up you've been calling for?Juanita Du Preez (01:16.022)Well, we can hope it's the start of that. Yeah, always happy when we hear that there are actually results. I remember a year ago when we started speaking about this, we were saying why aren't the police vans standing outside of the Madlanga Commission with all of this information coming out? So it took a while, but now there's a big clean-up. What is a bit concerning is that now there are so many gaps and so many temporary people…Is it causing maybe a gap for some form of bad stuff to happen and go though through the cracks if you want? Yeah, but it's good when we see that there are consequences, but like everybody's been saying, it's not just the arrests hat we need to see. We need to see that it's followed through, that there are consequences, that the problem is solved.Chris Steyn (02:18.221)And as you have previously stated, we are not privileged to all the information yet. So there are still accusations out there that some of those who have been suspended or arrested have been specifically targeted.Juanita Du Preez (02:34.194)Yes, that's probably why we are seeing what feels to us like the slow pace. We also have to keep in mind, we have to respect that everything must be done properly so that there is a proper case in the end. This is what we find frustrating with our cases, the smaller cases, and I call it with the most respect, the smaller cases. It often feels like it's moving at a snail’s pace. But hopefully it is because everything needs to be done in a specific way so that it can stand up in court. In many cases, it is just the system moving slowly. I believe here with the Madlanga Commission and the state of arresst we've seen now, it is because everything needs to be in place before. So it's a watertight case when it goes to the court.Chris Steyn (03:32.909)Well, you know, when the Madlanga Commission of Inquiry was established, people were a bit wary, justifiably so because of the lack of consequences from the findings of previous commissions. But even though the commission has not even finished sitting and released its report, we have seen many people suspended and arrested because of testimony before the commission. So the commission is getting praise, high praise, from many quarters.Juanita Du Preez (04:01.555)Definitely. It's one of the very big concerns of all the commissions previously. It took years and still very little came from it. So for this, like you say, rightly, before the report, the final report is even out, to start being consequences. That's wonderful. That's what we want to see when there is a commission.Chris Steyn (04:27.338)Back to your work at Action Society. You have launched a national campaign as pressure mounts for the release of the Sex Offenders Register. Tell us about it.Juanita Du Preez (04:37.436)Yes, we are excited about this because we've been fighting for the Sex Offender Register to be made public for a long time since Action Society's inception. And why we feel it is important is we need to know who is on that list so that we can make it safe around our areas. We do not. And another part is we don't know how up to date that list is because nobody has insight in it. So we don't know if what happens in court, if it is said with this person on the National Register that their name is fact on that register. So we want the transparency and we want the responsibility on ourselves to make sure that we keep our area safe. It's very important. So what we have asked now is that we've sent a PAIA application to all the relevant role players to ask. We want to know if it is up to date, what are the developments, because in February last year, the minister….said it will be made public. And I've gone and looked and they are still in the conversation in changing the law discussions part.So if we go by that timeline, it's still going to be a long time before we get access to that list. And there are a lot of people concerned about how complete it is. And these are questions that have been asked in parliamentary committees because the delay that was admitted.But we don't know how long the delay is and how many people. Is it 10,000 people that are not on the list for a year and then they get a job at a school? It's irresponsible to have a register which is the only work of that list is to keep people safe and to not have it work.Chris Steyn (06:55.82)You've also launched a PAIA application into failed prosecutions of cases involving very young children.Juanita Du Preez (07:02.356)Yes, and that is so important because we've seen in some of the cases that we are involved with even, we started seeing that a case goes to a certain point. One of them was on the eve of the trial. It was postponed or not postponed. We don't know if it was postponed temporarily or if it was just thrown out. And the reason why is they say the child is too young to testify.That's very concerning because what is the message then that we are sending to predators? And I hate to say this, but it sounds like you're saying if the child is too young, you get away with it. We cannot have that in a country where sexual assault against children are the highest ranked crime against children. We cannot have something like that. So we asked for five years worth of information about cases where minors were involved, how it was handled, and then we also want to see what are the … procedures. How should a case be handled when there is a minor involved? Because we know there are ways for a minor's testimony to be proved or to be accepted into court. Forensic social workers, the role play with dolls and so on. It is unacceptable to say the child is too young. If the child is too traumatised, we understand. But then there must be a day to follow up because this is one of the other cases that we had. The girl was, she was still very young. And they said when she's a bit older, when she's less traumatised, then we will pick it up. It took the mother to go and ask…she's ready now, she's ready now. We know you're gonna open it. And still that case is just, they turn up, then this one is on leave. Then the investigating officer doesn't give her information. It's just handled very poorly. And this is a child's life. This will influence and is already influencing her whole life going forward.Juanita Du Preez (09:26.61)If she sees that a bad guy who did bad stuff to me gets a punishment, then she can go on with her life. Without that, we're just throwing children to the woods.Chris Steyn (09:40.746)Meanwhile… but you have revived a case, a child rape case that was closed years ago because the victim was then too young to testify. So that's back now.Juanita Du Preez (09:51.968)Yes, that's exactly the one that I was referring to. It's for the…rather not say their names just to protect them. But a little, beautiful little girl, she is nine years old, nine or 10 years old now, I can't remember if it was her birthday yet. And the previous time they appeared…, they were told they don't have to go. They haven't had feedback on what happened. They don't even know when the new court date is. But the time before that, at great expense, because they have since moved to a different area, they have to get their own transport to go there. Of course, the mother said to me it cost about a thousand rand one way to get to the court where it's heard. And when they got there, the magistrate, the prosecutor and the defense was on leave. They were not informed even beforehand. They went all the way there to here, postponed to last week. How can a court, a criminal system be run like this?Chris Steyn (11:04.204)Is there not an opportunity there for a case like that to be moved to a private prosecution?Juanita Du Preez (11:12.862)We are trying everything to get it to get it easier for the little girl. We have also asked if all the mothers…asked can she not tune in…and she's also battling cancer the mother at the moment and…So we have asked if she cannot maybe do it online and they just said no to her … after one of the letters we sent to the NPA or it was to the prosecutor, the senior prosecutor, he just replied and said, if the mother's got a problem, let her come and speak to me in person. That was the response. So it really doesn't, it feels hostile when you get an answer like that and you're trying your best to just get justice for your daughter. And another concerning thing is that the accused has family members working in the police station where this case was opened. So it's like a family reunion when they meet up at court, which is very concerning.Chris Steyn (12:26.858)You are at court now. Which case are you pursuing?Juanita Du Preez (12:31.212)Yes, I was here the whole of last week and it's continuing this week. It's the case of Charlene Pretorius was set alight in a car by her soon to be ex-husband. They were getting a divorce and she was burnt and she died after the burning. So it's been three, it's 2023, yes, so three years. It's almost to the day now that it happened and it is emotional. Her son Jason Venter was on the stand the whole of last week for his testimony…and it was a lot of... That's frustrating part of court. They go into every single detail and want to argue about every little detail, but there is a reason why they do that.But what came out is the discipline that was used in that house. Jason said he was disciplined with a fist throughout his years living in that house and that he couldn't wait to move out. As soon as he turned 18, he moved out. But his two younger sisters were still living there. At one stage, there was 13 people on the yard. That's where Jason and his now wife, they moved back for a short while, just while it was between contracts. But yeah, there was domestic abuse all the time. Actually got a Protection Order and they were in the process of doing the divorce. In fact, they were speaking about the papers, something to sign, and that's when the incident happened. Of course, Stephan Pretorius, the accused, he denies everything. He even sits in court and shakes his head all the time. And he's also disrespectful towards the people going through, reliving all of that trauma. He laughs at Jason. He was reprimanded a couple of times in court, Stephan Preturius, for speaking up and shaking his head and just being actually disruptive. Yeah, but I think there was another...Juanita Du Preez (14:49.207)…Jason's best friend at the time, he was also called and crossed, just confirming everything that Jason said. And today is the youngest sister on the stand. They're still arguing if media is allowed or not. So we don't have an update yet, but I think that will be interesting because it has happened in front of her eyes. She's now 16 years old and yeah. It must have been devastating.And for me, because I've walked with him this whole journey, it's not really nice to see how Jason, for example, must keep his emotions. You can see how he is trying to keep his emotions in check while reliving everything. Yeah, my heart goes out to them, but we will not stand down from this case because it is so important.Chris Steyn (15:49.758)Well, thanks to Action Society, some cases are actually getting to court and being driven through court with by your dedication. That was Juanita du Preez of Action Society, the National Spokesperson speaking to BizNews. I'm Chris Steyn. Thank you, JuanitaJuanita Du Preez (16:07.509)Thanks..Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox at 5:30am weekdays. 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