(Ret.) Col Chris Wyatt - The NdB Sunday Show: Time for “serious external look” at SA’s “cover-ups…”

In the latest NDB Sunday Show with Chris Steyn, US Intelligence Analyst retired Colonel Chris Wyatt assesses testimony of police and political capture following the suicide of a prime suspect in the murder of Witness D. He gives an update on the 2000 refugees now in the US, some of whom have been treated badly by their case officers. The Colonel takes a deep dive into the apparent cover-ups behind the Lady R’s real cargo (now believed to have been proximity fuses for artillery); the alleged disobeyance of a Presidential order to exclude Iran from joint Naval exercises; the supposedly unsanctioned solidarity visit to Iran by SANDF Chief, General Rudzani Maphwanya; as well as South Africa’s 27-year-long deployment to the DRC. “… there's enough smoke there after all these incidents that we need serious external look at what's going on. Or we need honest politicians come forward and tell us truth.” Col Wyatt also slams the latest “own goal” of the African National Congress (ANC) with Minister in the Presidency, Sindisiwe Chikunga, celebrating the 47th anniversary of the Islamic Revolution and reaffirming close ties between South Africa and Iran in her address at the commemoration. .Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox at 5:30am weekdays. Register here.Support South Africa’s bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here.If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here..Watch here.Listen here.Edited transcript of the interview.Chris Steyn (00:01.842)Welcome to the NDB Sunday Show with me, Chris Steyn and US intelligence analyst, retired Colonel Chris Wyatt. Welcome, Colonel.Colonel Chris Wyatt (00:12.302)Hey Chris, greetings to you from central Texas. outside Dallas on a road trip here. We're marking the one year anniversary of President Trump's executive order about ending foreign aid to South Africa. And more importantly for many South Africans, his offer of refugee status for Afrikaners and racial minorities. And a big meet and greet. Yesterday about 85 people showed up. There's about 250 plus South African refugees who've come to Texas. And from that we had about 50 of the people who showed up were refugees.Bear in mind, a lot of these folks just got here, don't have transportation. This isn’t exactly like living in Manhattan where you can just jump in the street car. You need a car to get here. So it was pretty impressive that that many people managed to get here. It was a pretty exciting event, commemorating the one year anniversary.Chris Steyn (00:54.718)Thank you, Chris. May we start with the testimony of police and political capture that we have heard at the Madlanga Commission and Parliament's Ad Hoc committee? What is your assessment?Colonel Chris Wyatt (01:11.456)Well, Chris, I thought things were bad in South Africa. Bad things are happening, as was said by Trump and then mocked by Cyril Ramophosa. But I mean, the depth of corruption that we're hearing about and it appears to be credible. And there's all sorts of things. Witness D, having been assassinated, Marius Van der Merwe, had been murdered back in December. And now one of the accused or one of the suspected in this who was involved in this, Wiandre Pretorius is apparently in front of his partner is a police reservist, offed himself on Saturday over this investigation. This just gets worse and worse for the police. I mean, you know, obviously there are honest police and the police force have 178,000 people that work for SAPS. There must be a preponderance of good people, but the bad eggs and at the highest levels in the police force. This is, this is heartbreaking. I mean, no wonder police don't respond for years. The concern and the argument I've made is that, it’s bad, but we have to understand that the police are being starved of resources. You know, they may only have one bakkie, but now we find out that the reason they have one bakkie is because the other bakkie is being loaned to gangsters and they have no investigators because they're being starved of funds because it's being used to…it's the more we hear, the sadder this becomes. And all we keep hearing is that, now they're going to investigate these top 14 police. What do you investigate? That's what this whole commission has been doing. Why aren't there criminal charges being laid and people hiring defense attorneys? I mean, nothing ever happens. You know, look, the South Africans isn't exactly alone in this disease of not holding elites to account. But America does it, the UK does it. Every country in world has a bad habit of protecting the elites rather than prosecuting when they need to be prosecuted. Now that's a general statement, I think we can all point to many, many cases. I mean, I can just start talking about the whole long laundry list of corruption cases in South Africa, and where are the results….Jacob Zuma's two-and-a-half decade of allegations and charges for corruption in the Arms Deal case, the Travel Gate, the Oil Gate, selling the State petroleum reserve and then paying a BEE company money to hold their own oil. And then the PPE scandals and it just goes on and on and on. And I think many South Africans has just become, I guess the word is inured to what's going on with the violence, but also what's going on to police.Colonel Chris Wyatt (03:35.087)It's truly a sad situation. And my take on this is that honestly, I think a few heads might roll, but it's almost like you have to just destroy the entire police force and start from scratch and do a whole new recruiting programme with honest people to vet the police come in and start all over. It's, it's, to me, it's, getting that bad. I mean, I don't know if you can cut the head off the snake. It's like a multi-headed snake at this point. And the corruption is everywhere. And you know, finger pointing is taking place and the politicians are too cowardly to do anything. And the people are the ones suffering. I mean, people all over the country, black, white and brown, rich and poor, they're suffering because of this gangsterism in the police. And it's truly a sad situation, Chris. I mean, I know that's a long answer, but I'm kind of heartbroken for South Africans. If you can’t…one of the things I heard this weekend at the meet and greet here in Dallas yesterday, and also from a lot of my viewers who've come to America recently is that, you know, when something happens, they call the police and they come and they answer your questions and they're polite and they're friendly and you get results. Not always immediately, but they're on top of things. And they just said, it's such an alien experience. They're not accustomed to that. Things have gotten so bad in South Africa, people don't even report crimes anymore. Perfect crimes go unreported. It's heartbreaking. I guess that's the way I should leave it there, Chris. It's heartbreaking.Chris Steyn (04:50.046)Let's go to international relations. We've had an African National Congress Minister in the presidency, Cindisiwe Chikunga, celebrating the 47th anniversary of the Islamic Revolution and reaffirming close ties between South Africa and Iran in her address at the commemoration in South Africa.Colonel Chris Wyatt (05:14.148)Well, I find it particularly, I don't want to say hilarious, but it's not hilarious. It is certainly ironic that the ANC, which purports to be about human dignity and equality and fairness, commemorates and supports an organisation that has oppressed, repressed, murdered, imprisoned, raped, and destroyed the lives of millions of women, millions of Iranian women, and has basically...applied a 13th century theocracy upon the people of Iran without their consent, all because of a popular uprising, because by the time the late 70s came around, the Shah had become so unpopular because of repressive Secret Police and missteps by his government. And there was popular support to overthrow the Shah. But I think only a handful of people in 1979 would have wanted what Iran has become, a rogue terror sponsor and a state bent on oppressing women, and executing people needlessly and just murdering its civilians, its citizens in the streets when they stand up and ask for fairness. And to see an ANC politician and listen to the ANC vomit this garbage about how they are for the oppressed and they stand for justice and then take Israel to the International Court of Justice over what they claim is a moral high ground, yet they continue to support the state sponsor of terrorism.One has to ask the question, what is the affiliation with the ANC? It's not because the Iranians are humanitarians. It's not because the mullahs are for equality and justice. It's not because they believe women have rights. It's not because they are interested in advancing humanity. It's because they're 13th century theocrats who will run the country like it's a mosque. And that's not an attack on Islam, saying that they're running it like they're running a church or a mosque, not like they're running a country.And the ANC supports a government that just murdered thousands of its own citizens. They invite navies to their shores from a terror designated group, Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps. This is beyond the pale. At some point, you have to wonder, is this an intentional effort to anger Donald Trump because the ANC seems to be hell bent on playing the role of victim here. They want sanctions. I think the leaders want to be so they can stand up and say, look, we're standing up to the evil Satan, Donald Trump.Colonel Chris Wyatt (07:36.939)You know, I've created a crafted an AI song that Afrikaans called trading in the Jan card for the Trump card. And, know, we don't hear anybody complaining about Jan van Riebeek being blamed for Apartheid and colonialism recently. They're all blaming Donald Trump, but Donald Trump had nothing to with Apartheid or colonisation in South Africa. But the point of the story is that the ANC is morally bankrupt in anything it says in support of such a terror state and a terror regime.There is no justification for anyone who actually believes in ending the system of Apartheid and separate development. No one who believes that that was morally bankrupt who could possibly bring themselves around to legitimately support a state like Iran. The ANC has betrayed the liberation struggle time and time again. And this is just the latest example of an organisation that's more interested in clinging to power than it is in serving the democratic needs of its citizens, black, white and brown. And this is a epic own goal. But I mean, look, if we kept the score sheet, little measles sheet of all the things the ANC has done that has been against the interest of South Africans in the past 18 months, it would run for several pages. But at the same time, every time that the US media says, well, Trump is upset with South African and the government says, why, what have we done? We've never done anything to America. Really? I mean, come on, let's talk about honesty here. But this is shocking that they continue to do this. And it also shows you, in my view, Chris, wholesale ignorance of the second generation of ANC leaders in governance now. People have come up in the post-Apartheid era. Many of these people are frankly brain dead. They're dumber than a box of rocks and frankly that's an insult to a box of rocks. Rocks would be insulted to be compared to these people who have no grasp on history, they have no understanding of history and they simply run around and parrot the propaganda that someone has told them. It's really sad to see.Chris Steyn (09:28.816)While we are on Iran, that inquiry into allegations that the military disobeyed a Presidential order to exclude Iran from those joint naval exercises. How would America have handled a situation like that?Colonel Chris Wyatt (09:43.72)Well, we've had situations like that, not where we've invited a foreign military, but where a senior officer has disobeyed an order. Well, if they're retirement age, they're usually forced into retirement. If it's serious enough, we have an inquiry into that, what's called Article 15, that's just an administrative code that looks for non-judicial punishment, and it can recommend that it be a Court Martial, or a Court Martial Committee authority can have a Court Martial. We've had that before. We've had officers...We had a two-star general in the Air Force during the Gulf War that after the Gulf War… He was in the station in Saudi Arabia before the war started. I actually knew him his son, I met him in Saudi Arabia. He was the first ever general officer in the US Air Force to face Court Martial. He was Court-Martialed for for purported fraud and also for disobeying orders.But we've had situations where officers did now famous in America. We had if you follow history had MacArthur who disobeyed Truman. He was relieved in Korea, of the Korean War. He disobeyed what Truman told him to do…and he was cashiered. But we can prosecute him for that. But I mean, that's an interesting question about the military. I'm not entirely at this stage convinced that the military simply disobeyed.… I think there's some covering up going on here. We need more information on this. And I have no confidence whatsoever that this commission will get it done because we're told the seven-day commission will…seven-day window is coming on, and then it can be nothing we can go now, but now it's a has been because they're not qualified, it's you can't have non-military members. The whole thing is a farce quite frankly that.But I'm waiting to see why the Commander of the South African National Defense Force …went to pledge loyalty and… to the Iranian terror forces publicly and there's no sanctions, and then after the fact…the feckless Defence Minister Minister… 30% Motshekga who destroyed Basic Education is now the Defence Minister and after the factshe shows just how weak she is by coming back and saying, no, no, his trip was approved. They had no idea that he was doing this. And that is tantamount to me to an insurrection. Your military, your Chief of Defense Force going to a foreign state and practicing diplomacy without your consent, without your direction…Colonel Chris Wyatt (12:00.956)And that has been a strength of the United States is that our military is controlled by civilians, whether we like it or not. I mean, there are times when we're not happy about that. But if you want a safe society, you have to have a military that's subservient to civilian leadership. Now, hopefully you elect people that are competent. And in South Africa's case, you don't even get to elect the minister. They're appointed. You don't get to elect the president. They're appointed by Parliament. So I mean, it's a little different. But yeah, this is shocking. And I would like to see an investigation into the Chief of the SANDF going to Iran, but that just gets brushed on the carpet. It's kind of like the Phala Phala thing. The Parliament says the President didn't do anything wrong. Well, Parliament can only talk about ethics violations in Parliament. They can't talk about criminal charges of the criminal code and bringing $580,000 US currency into the country. Where are the criminal investigation and charges into that money laundering? And what about the SARS? You know, I don't know, Chris, you have $580,000 in US bills stuffed in your closet or under your couch. And if so, have you declared it the SARS and paid your taxes? I'm just curious, you know. Inquiring minds would like to know.Chris Steyn (13:02.034)From one apparent cover up to another apparent cover up, I want to take you back a little bit to the Lady R, that Russian ship. According to some information from certain sources, the cargo was in fact South Africa manufactured proximity fuses for artillery. Now, when your former ambassador, Reuben Brigety, apologised for the way in which he accused South Africa, of sending arms to Russia, he didn't actually, he did it very carefully. He didn't actually retract what he had said. What have you heard about the cargo, Colonel?Colonel Chris Wyatt (13:41.177)That's a very good question, Chris. And just a full disclosure so that there's nothing on the table here. I once worked for Reuben Brigety. I was his senior military advisor when he was ambassador of the African Union. So I know him. I don't have a positive or negative attitude. I enjoy working for him, but I'm being fully objective here. What people don't understand is Reuben Brigety didn't exactly go off the reservation when he did that. You have to understand that Reuben Brigety is a political appointee. Just like Brent Bozell is a political appointee. Historically, our ambassador saw that as a political appointee someone rewarded for their connections or their contributions, the president getting an office or someone that has sometimes a background. I mean, last time when Trump was president, he sent Lana Marx to South Africa. That was a disaster. But anyway, it's because he was friends with her. But in the case of Reuben Brigety, he's a very political creature who has ultimately political goals. And I know Reuben Brigety, he would not have just run out and done something on his own because it could harm or cripple his chances at political office in the future or being an ambassador again, which is something that he covets. And there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not saying good or bad. So when he announced this publicly in a press conference, I was like, wow, okay, that's interesting. Because we've been asking about the Lady R, you know we've got no answers. But what people don't pay attention to is that he didn't just come out the day after the ship docked in Cape Town, in Simonstown. It was five months later. The US government had politely, diplomatically requested information, not just from Brigety, but from the State Department back in DC, gone to South African embassy, asked for answers. Why is a Russian sanctioned defense contractor at Simon's town? This is not a good look. What's going on? We want to know. And of course, the Biden regime had a vested interest in Ukraine and Ukrainian conflict. And so they were probably, you know, carrying the water a bit because of that. So Brigety just didn't go crazy and just announced this. And as you said correctly, he kind of apologised for the way that he delivered the news, but not for delivering the news. And he and the U.S. have never retracted their allegations and that's because they were right. The bogus fake commission that was put together, the whitewash, whole thing later was only put together after public pressure built on the South African government only after Brigetty exposed it. For five months after the Lady R incident, the South African government dismissed all social media content and all requests from the public and media about the Lady R as if it was nobody's business. When Brigety announced this in the press, then they had to scramblem had to point a commission which whitewashed the whole story and claim there was nothing to see here.Colonel Chris Wyatt (16:05.076)…and moved on. But people have photographs of the BMWs from the Special Forces that were down there, all the way from Bloemfontein. They saw the cargo containers being lifted in the dead of night. What's the purpose of that? And at the time, I said to the government in South Africa, said, look, I'm not trying to tell you how to suck eggs here, but if I was writing your propaganda in your public relations department, I would have said that, well, of course there were things loaded onto the ship. Every ship that comes into port refits, refuels, gets more medical supplies, gets more vitals, more food goes on the ship, you know, and all these things; that's just a normal course of events, you know, there's nothing to see here. But no, no, no, they simply ignored that point that's an obvious truth that they could have told. And they just, they messed around with this. So what's my take on this? I think that the truth is finally coming out as it tends to do eventually. But the problem is that the South African government who keeps claiming they've done nothing untoward. What happened here?And I think the correct...question here, Chris, is if indeed these were proximity fuses produced by the South African government or its defense industry, if they were coming from defence stocks, did the politicians know? Did the politician know about the Lady R? Because it raised the question that did they know about the general going to Iran and pledging fealty and loyalty to the Iranians? Do they know about the naval exercise? And so this begins to raise a very serious question when you put these things together. And I'm not creating conspiracy theory here because I've raised this issue before. Is the South African National Defense Force following civilian rule in South Africa? Do we have a serious concern about the future and safety and democracy of Africa? I'm not saying there's anything like a coup in the offing, but this raises genuine questions and the public has a right to know. People need to check into this situation. Quite frankly, I think the South Africans should be demanding answers about what the heck is going on with the leadership of SANDF, because they may be innocent in the three things I just said and maybe they did nothing wrong. But the appearance of impropriety, the appearance of a threat is very genuine. And I think it's worth looking into. Look, don't think people are to comment and say, he's talking about it. I'm not saying there's a coup. I'm not saying the military's gone rogue. What I'm saying is there's enough smoke there after all these incidents that we need serious external look at what's going on. Or we need honest politicians come forward and tell us truth. But the South African government is not going to be honest about this. They're going to obfuscate. They're going to try to misdirect and say there's nothing to see here because that's what they always do….Colonel Chris Wyatt (18:25.298)…when they're caught with their pants around their trousers or their trousers around their knees, excuse me.Chris Steyn (18:28.158)Well, South Africa, sorry, meanwhile, President Cyril Ramaphosa has announced that South Africa will be withdrawing its peacekeeping troops from the Democratic Republic of Congo.Colonel Chris Wyatt (18:45.393)Well, Chris, it's been 27 years, if I recall correctly, that the troops have been in the Congo. And we have to ask ourselves this question. What exactly have they accomplished? Is the Congo peaceful since the conflict that restarted in early 1990s? Has peace returned? Are people better off? Is there democracy? Is there better health care? No. The answer to all those questions. The situation in South Africa, I mean, in the DRC, with the presence of the South African National Defense Force has not been improved. So what were they doing there all this time? We know for a fact, which is denied, but it's factual, the evidence is there that the Namibian Defence Force, the Zimbabwe Defence Force deployed there years ago simply so that their generals get access to minerals and get fabulously wealthy off of it. We've got the evidence of that. Never accused the South African generals of doing that, but we can incredibly accuse South African troops in the past, not recently, but of running prostitution rings, human trafficking, selling weapons, selling drugs in the DRC.To set that aside, those things happen with military sometimes. But the question here is, what have they accomplished? I don't know that they've accomplished anything. How many lives have they saved? I don't know. How many South African soldiers lost their lives in the Congo in the past 27 years? And for what reason? What was accomplished? I think the public should demand an inquiry into why the SANDF spent three decades in the Congo and what did South Africa gain from it. Because your government is there to protect you and all your common interests and your society from foreign and domestic threats. So what threat were you protected from and what humanitarian cause did you support and protect? I think if I was South African, instead of the EFF marching on the US consulate in Johannesburg, rioting about issues that are fictional, I think that the EFF should march on the Union buildings and demand an answer about why the SANDF has been there and what came of it.Chris Steyn (20:35.388)Hmm, Chris, let's circle back to the refugees when you've been spending time with what can you tell us? What are they telling you?Colonel Chris Wyatt (20:45.968)Well, Chris, the refugees who've come to America, number of approximately 2000 right now. Now remember that this was… for about six or eight months, then the US government shut down. So the Refugee Programme from a South African perspective really didn't pick up any steam until mid November. They had 137 come over in two weeks in November, then 591, I believe it was, in December. But that was only two weeks as well because of Christmas Exodus when most of the US employees go on holiday. And then in January, they didn't start up again until the 5th when they first started flying. So that gave them about 20 plus days. In that short period of time, we now have just about 2000, and these numbers come out every month officially from the government. So the refugees that I've been talking to, the vast majority of them have had a very good experience with their case officers. However, there is a small minority who received very poor treatment. Some of it's because of bigotry against South Africans and stupidity of people who look at this and they believe the fake media that say that this is a programme for white farmers and Afrikaners, like Foreign Minister Ronald Lamola claims on CNN that you have to be white and be an Afrikaner, which is just a fabricational lie. It's always been the case. It's for…Afrikaners we're given preference or not priority, not preference, but priority, but for racial minorities as well. And as I've said from very beginning, there are Coloureds, Indians and even some black South Africans who's come over. Not many black South Africans, but fro example, we have, have a white South African families that have adopted neglected and abandoned black children and they're their kids now. So they've come over as part of programme with the families. We also have… interracial marriages where black and white's been married and they've been abused because of that and persecuted because of interracial marriage, a few couples like that have come over. And we've got a number of Coloured families over here. I've been reporting this for the better part of year and only now is South African media beginning to take a closer look at this. The smaller media outlets, but it's working its way towards larger media outlets and they're gonna be forced to admit the truth that they've been lying for last year, but they won't say that. Now they all reach out to me. Suddenly everybody wants to talk to me because they want access to the Coloured families, but they don't care about the other refugees. But the refugees, for the most part, are doing pretty well. And you can imagine being a refugee is a tough road to hoe. Unless you come here with millions of dollars in the bank as an asset, you're starting over your entire life. And if you're 35 or 45, that's a tough road to hoe. I mean, if you're 22, you're just starting life out. It's not so hard. You don't have a history in South Africa. You don't have assets. But if you have that in South Africa, give it up.Colonel Chris Wyatt (23:07.597)And many of people have given it up. And I saw in….the KykNet documentary, which I appear in episode five, that … a refugee in Twin Falls, Idaho, whom I visited, she talked about how President Ramaphosa called the refugees cowards. She said, fine, I'll wear that label. I'm a proud living coward. My children are safe and can play out in the front yard without being murdered. Basically, that's my paraphrase. When she said, she said, call me a coward. I'm a proud coward and I'm happy to be here.So most have that experience. If you were running into some difficulties related to the poor care of refugees from some agencies in some local offices, what I've determined, Chris, because I went into investigative effort up in Rochester, New York, is that this tends to be a lack of oversight from my point of view by these agencies who are large multinational and US wide agencies. And they'll have local offices where they're not paying attention to what's happening. And you get abuse from a few of these case officers. I don't think that it's everywhere. It's just been a small number of cases, but it's real, it's genuine. And it's not just South Africans, because South Africans, some of them think it's just towards them.But I I spoke to an Afghan refugee in Rochester, New York, who told me that he arrived a year prior and that the case officer took him to hotel in the dead winter in Rochester, which is very cold place, stuck him in hotel, gave them no cash assistance, which they're required to give them by law, and no food, no cell phone, and came back a week later. I mean, guy barely speaks English, he's got a wife and a three-year-old kid. What are they supposed to do? So, fortunately for him, he had a cousin that lived nearby who knew he was coming and made sure they had food for that week. But then the person told this refugee, this Afghan that barely speaks English, to go find the office to apply for food stamps. And of course, the refugee doesn't know what this office is. He goes there, finally, someone gives him a ride, and the agency, the Department of Health and Human Services says, what are you doing here? Well, I came to apply for food stamps. We have to have an appointment. Okay, can I have an appointment? No, your case officer has to make the appointment. They have all the documents from the government. They're the ones. Then the worst part about this, this is an Afghan refugee who's a Muslim said to me, I was sitting in his car…He said, I asked my case officer because I'm Muslim, do you know where we can buy Halaal food? Cause it's not on every, we don't, every Pick ‘n Pay and Checkers…don't have Halaal food. It's not like South Africa. And so fair question. And the case officer said, well, you people eat dog. Why do you need Halaal food? True story, Chris. So this is happening…Colonel Chris Wyatt (25:34.296)…to more than just South African refugees in the past. And it raises a question about is there a level of corruption… And also, how have refugees who don't speak English who are just grateful that they've escaped the conflict and that they're actually living and will take anything, any crumbs they can get just to get out of Afghanistan or out of Sudan or out of Somalia, how many like that have been mistreated over the past number of years?And it's not this administration. This is a problem I think is systemic because in my view, there's a lack of oversight by the government and by these agencies at every level. And then as a consequence, you get people who just do what they want locally and there's no, nobody follows up on it. But that's been a small number. I would say that of the 2000 come over, maybe 3% most have had this experience similar to that. But the vast majority of them had a very good experience. The lady in Tampa from the same organisation as Rochester. Her case officer meets the family at the airport, he takes them to the house, he gives the refugee cash right there, a few hundred dollars. There's brand new towels and dish towels and brand new cooking utensils and a fridge full of food and toilet paper in the bathroom and a clean, lovely apartment. They're in their apartment right away. The guy calls them every single day, comes over and sees them every other day for the first two weeks they're there. They already have social security numbers within the first week. They already have their authorisation. So that's been the most experience. But make no mistake, Chris, I don't sugar coat this. I always tell my audience and I'll tell your audience as well. It's not easy. You're starting over. And if you're 22, lot easier. You're 42, bit of a challenge. You're 62, you can do it, but it's not a welfare programme. This is not a gift. It's just saving you from what is believed to be persecution to put your life in jeopardy. So you gotta come over and you gotta work hard.Chris Steyn (27:19.484)Are there some who actually want to come back, Chris? Or is it not that bad?Colonel Chris Wyatt (27:24.548)Well, I think that that's nothing but propaganda, Chris Steyn. I mean, these are rumours being spread…all over South African social media. I can confirm to you that not a single South African refugee has returned to the United States as of December 31st. That's from the US government. Now, I haven't followed up in January because these rumours started in December. And it started because reporters went to the airport and started interviewing people coming back. But the people they're talking to were South Africans who live in the UK and abroad who came home for the holidays to visit family for the most part, …H2A visa holders who came back to South Africa because their visa was ending and the farm season was over. And this lie got turned into refugees are coming back. I don't know a single story, credible story that a single refugee has gone back. And quite frankly, I mean, that was a pretty foolish move. How do you think you're going be greeted by the officials in South Africa when you return there and they see that you have a visa to be a refugee in the States? You think that's not going to be reported to somebody? They're not going to follow up on you? So I don't think there's any credibility of this. This is just another one of those efforts by people to discredit this programme just like the lies for the past year by News24, Ronald Lamola, Fikile, Newsroom Africa, and so many of these outlets have lied endlessly. And I have no compunction about saying they lie, because it's been on the Embassy website since the 10th of February, 2025, that Afrikaners and racial minorities, yet they continue to call this a programme for farmers and whites in Afrikaners, which it's not. They are given priority, but it's not exclusively for them. And so they have been saying this for the past year.This is another effort in my view to undermine the program. People are telling many of these people have been abused and they're being told they don't belong there, they're colonists, get out, you know, and all the other things happening to them. So they leave. And now people are like, well, why are you leaving? Well, because SARS tax base is evaporating. That's why. That's what's playing a role here. The tax revenue coming into SARS is disappearing. And contrary to Minister of Agriculture John Steenhuisen’ss glowing self-proclaimed victory lap in Durban when he announced he wasn't running, he said that we've doubled the GDP. Well, I'm really impressed. South African GDP is growing at 0.5%. So up from a quarter percent, while inflation is at 3.6 % and population growth is 1.4%, South Africa is becoming poorer by the day. And so despite his victory lap, you know, this is just, it's, my view, it's propaganda. I see no credible evidence of it. If there's a case of refugee going back, I'm happy to interview them. I'm happy to talk to them and I'm happy to the circumstances. And if they want to do it anonymously, they can come on my programme doing it anonymously, but no one has come forward.Chris Steyn (29:54.184)Thank you. That was US intelligence analyst, retired Colonel Chris Wyatt speaking to me, Chris Steyn on the NDB Sunday show. Thank you, Chris.Colonel Chris Wyatt (30:04.229)Thank you, Chris. You have a lovely week upcoming.

(Ret.) Col Chris Wyatt - The NdB Sunday Show: Time for “serious external look” at SA’s “cover-ups…”

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