Listen here.What happens when a community decides it’s had enough of municipal failure? In this compelling conversation, Rob Hersov explains how a small Free State municipality took matters into its own hands, restoring services, managing electricity distribution, collecting revenue, and driving local development. The result is a working model of public-private cooperation that could transform struggling municipalities across South Africa. From grassroots leadership to political change, this is a powerful story of resilience, innovation, and a practical blueprint for renewal..Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. Register here.Support South Africa’s bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here.If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here..Edited transcript of the interview.00:00:07 - 00:01:06Alec Hogg: You know, so often when I walk amongst members of the business community, people I don't even know come up to me and say, "Hey, you and Rob Hersov should be doing this. Hey, you and Rob..."Well, repeating that, Rob Hersov is with me now. He has had a huge impact on the BizNews tribe. Five years ago, he stood up in the Drakensberg and said things that many people at the time thought were almost heresy.Well, five years on, there's a lot of action happening around the kind of things Rob said we should be getting busy with. He's just written a story for BizNews about a community in the Free State. We're going to find out more from him about this courageous approach, which could be a template for many other communities in South Africa over the next 20 minutes or so.00:01:06 - 00:01:14Alec Hogg: Rob, the community that you wrote about is from Mafube. Now, where the heck is Mafube?00:01:14 - 00:04:53Rob Hersov: So, guys, I've just had the most amazing meeting. These people flew in from Frankfort, which is a small town in the second-smallest municipality in South Africa, called the Mafube Municipality.They have a model for how to fix this country from the bottom up, and I'm going to look into this. I've heard the most extraordinary stuff this morning.This is going to be a journey we're going to go on over the next few months, learning how a group of people have come together to fix their community from the bottom up.Go and have a look at Frankfort. It's somewhere around where the N1 and the N3 meet. It's just inside the Free State from KwaZulu-Natal, near the Vaal River and the Wilge River.I'm just learning about this myself. I think I've flown over it a few times, and I'm going to find out more about it. I'm going up there in August, so let's learn about how to fix South Africa through the Mafube district.I haven't been there before. It's a flyover town in South Africa. It's the second-smallest municipality in South Africa, with about 60,000 people. It's near the N1 and the N3, the Vaal and Wilge Rivers. It's in the Free State and is primarily a farming community.The main town is Frankfort, but it also encompasses the villages of Tweeling and Cornelia.How did I hear about it?Well, I was at the Future of Nations Conference and a guy came up to me and said, "Rob, we need to talk about Mafube."I was like, "What the hell is Mafube?"He said, "Well, it's a municipality in South Africa in the Free State."I thought, "Oh no, not again," because I get everything thrown at me, as I'm sure you do, Alec.A week later, I got a call from Hans and Jannie. Jannie said, "Rob, we're going to send you some information on Mafube. We really need you to focus on what we're doing and get your head around it, because we think we've got a template for fixing South Africa."And I went, "Oh no, not again," because everyone's sending me their plan for fixing South Africa.But they were persistent.Hans, Jannie, Julius Bosch and Oupa Mokoena said, "We're flying down to Cape Town to see you."So there was no escape.I said to Annette, "All right, I've got to do it."These guys flew down. I met them a couple of days ago, and I sat and listened. I was blown away by what they told me.They have a template for fixing South Africa - municipality by municipality, from the bottom up.But more than just a template, they've actually done it.They're collecting revenue. They're fixing things. They've set up their own power systems. They distribute their own power. They bill for their own power, and they give money back to Eskom.What they've done has blown me away.After the BizNews Conference in the Drakensberg on 14 August, myself and a couple of other people - Corné Mulder, Dr Theo de Jager, Bob van Dijk and Prince Mashele-— are going to go up there and take a look.We're actually going to go and see it for ourselves.00:04:53 - 00:05:26Alec Hogg: Rob, anybody who's travelled between Johannesburg and Durban along the N3 will go through Villiers, which is a big town on the left-hand side. So, yes, I've certainly been there.But I suppose the question is: what drove these people to do this?The way you describe what they've been up to, it's quite a process.00:05:26 - 00:05:49Rob Hersov: It is quite a process.What drove them was the collapse of their municipality and the resilience to say: "We're not going to let our towns and municipality fall apart. We're going to do something about it. We're going to fix this place. We're going to pull together and make things happen."00:05:49 - 00:06:17Alec Hogg: Well, they certainly have done that.Let's start at the beginning. Was there a spark that got them moving towards this?You did talk about an organisation that, in 2012, started managing electricity there - Rural Maintenance Free State. That's a long time ago. Fourteen years ago they began managing the electricity, presumably because Eskom was either not delivering or not being paid.00:06:17 - 00:09:26Rob Hersov: Correct.Everything was falling apart. The electricity supply had collapsed. Sewage systems had collapsed. The roads were full of potholes.It's the story that every municipality outside the Western Cape seems to be suffering from.In 2012 they said, "We've had enough. We cannot afford to allow this to happen, and we're going to do something about it."They contracted with an organisation called Rural Maintenance Free State.At my meeting a few days ago, Julius Bosch - the son of the founder - was there.This is a hard-nosed Afrikaans business family with operations in Springbok and various other places in the Northern Cape. But I think the most successful implementation of what they do is in Frankfort and the Mafube Municipality.They've effectively taken control of electricity distribution and have only recently started moving into electricity generation.Let's talk about distribution first.They put up the money on a 25-year contract. They've got a 25-year agreement with the municipality to rebuild the grid, bill customers, collect the money, keep a portion for capital expenditure, maintenance and profit, and pay the rest over to Eskom.With the agreement of Eskom and the municipality, the Bosch family put up the money.They've been loss-making for a number of years because they've had to invest heavily in the grid, infrastructure and billing systems.Their default rate is only 2%. They have a 2% failure rate from people who won't pay or can't pay.Those are usually businesses that have gone bust - not private citizens or farmers.What that tells you is that there is money, and people are prepared to pay if they receive the services.This is one of the crucial messages that has come out of the project.Rural Maintenance Free State has been able to spend the money, take the risk, bill people and collect.They collect about 98% of the money due from people who receive the service.It's an extraordinary operation.What they've done next is vertically integrate into power production.They've secured the rights and set up an 8.9MW solar operation.And now they're building - listen to this - a 9MW coal-fired power plant to provide redundant energy, meaning 24/7 power to the municipality.They have permission from Eskom and they're moving ahead with it.So they've gone from billing, maintenance and grid distribution to producing power.00:09:26 - 00:09:30Alec Hogg: Extraordinary.Presumably they give the municipality something in return?00:09:30 - 00:10:55Rob Hersov: Yes, they do.They contribute to municipal revenues and taxes.The operation is profitable now, although the Bosch family still needs a number of years to recover its investment and generate a return.That's why they need a 25-year contract.And believe me, Ace Magashule and the ANC establishment in the Free State have tried everything possible to stop this from happening.The ANC was running the municipality.But around ten years ago, Oupa Mokoena formed Mafube First.This is a black-led organisation that won about 11% of the vote in 2019. It's significantly stronger now.Mafube First then sought support from white farmers and teamed up with the Mafube Business Forum, the Farmers' Association and the Residents' Association.So blacks and whites, farmers and residents, employed and unemployed people all came together and said:"We're going to fix our community."They started raising funds, paying bills, fixing sewage systems, repairing potholes and tackling other municipal problems.This is truly bottom-up.00:10:57:08 - 00:11:02:04Alec Hogg:Rob, do they have control of any of the town council?00:11:02:06 - 00:11:29:14Rob Hersov:They don't, but they will. Come 4 November 2026, I believe they'll be registered as a political party and, with the support of the Freedom Front Plus - let me make this very clear - the Freedom Front Plus has been strongly behind this, along with the District Agricultural Union and various farmers' and community associations.00:11:29:16 - 00:11:53:21They have formed a political party that is going to run in the municipal elections - not nationally, municipally. They believe they can win. They think they can secure a majority of the councillors, and then it's all systems go: taking this template and fixing everything else that needs fixing.They've also created a Stakeholders' Compact, which is worth reading. I haven't read it in detail yet; I put it into AI and had it synthesised for me. But that is the template they want to take to the rest of South Africa.00:12:03:08 - 00:12:25:12Alec Hogg:This is a really interesting template, as you explain it. Helen Zille often says that all politics is local. In the second-smallest municipality in South Africa, they've taken that to heart. They've now created this party called Mafube First.00:12:25:13 - 00:12:57:13They're going to stand in the election and anticipate winning control of the council, enabling them to extend this partnership with business in the area. But the ANC must be terrified by this, because it exposes incompetence in municipalities across the country and could encourage other communities to take control of their own circumstances in a similar way.00:12:57:15 - 00:13:28:03Rob Hersov:Exactly. The Mafube Stakeholders' Compact is a governance-supported blueprint developed through workshops involving government stakeholders. It proposes a ring-fenced revenue account, creditor engagement, conditional amnesty, priority deadlines and oversight structures, working alongside Rural Maintenance Free State's support systems.The goal was never to take over the municipality. The goal was to make the municipality function properly.00:13:28:05 - 00:13:38:18Alec Hogg:If the ANC isn't happy about all this, what have they done? In your article, you mention there has been significant pushback.00:13:38:20 - 00:14:11:11Rob Hersov:The ANC in the Free State tried to fight against it. With support from AfriForum, Solidarity and the Freedom Front Plus, the business forum fought through the courts.The Free State High Court ordered mandatory provincial intervention, a financial recovery plan and immediate action to stop sewage pollution in the Vaal and Wilge Rivers.00:14:11:13 - 00:14:40:04I'm reading from my notes because this story is still fresh to me.In 2025, a full bench again declared non-compliance with previous orders and compelled the state to implement the recovery plan, stop waste, fraud and pollution, take emergency measures and report back.They successfully used the courts to push back against the ANC, and the judiciary supported their efforts.00:14:40:06 - 00:15:05:12Alec Hogg:There was one part of the story that confused me.You've got Mafube First making things happen, but you still have a municipality that appears highly dysfunctional. As part of your article, you highlighted how more than R14.7 million in pension contributions was deducted from employees' salaries but never paid over to the retirement fund.00:15:05:14 - 00:15:24:13The money was deducted but not transferred. Clearly it was used elsewhere. There was court action around this. Is the municipality now required to repay those funds? And where would the money come from?00:15:27:18 - 00:16:08:04Rob Hersov:They have to repay certain individuals. The Free State High Court judgment described the municipality as a "faceless and untouchable perpetrator" causing a breakdown in the rule of law.The ANC councillors have effectively been sanctioned and, in many respects, have surrendered. They've rolled over to the Mafube Business Forum and Mafube First and said, "Fix this place," because legally they have to.Mafube is now generating a surplus, reducing debt and raising funds.00:16:08:08 - 00:16:18:07They approached farmers for a levy.Alec Hogg:I think it was R18.Rob Hersov:That's right - R18 per hectare.00:16:18:09 - 00:16:33:05And 90% of the farmers across the municipality contributed. They raised significant money, paid down debt and invested in capital expenditure.It's quite extraordinary what they've achieved. They've truly put their money where their mouths are.00:16:33:07 - 00:16:52:17Alec Hogg:These guys got on a plane and came to see you. Oupa Mokoena and his colleagues - what are they like? Are they larger-than-life personalities, or simply ordinary people doing extraordinary things?00:16:52:19 - 00:17:20:08Rob Hersov:They're extraordinary people doing extraordinary things, but they're no different from the people I've met in Mossel Bay, Cederberg, Knysna and elsewhere.These organisations are forming across South Africa, municipality by municipality. They're made up of ordinary South Africans - farmers, businesspeople, residents and township communities.00:17:20:09 - 00:17:36:21They're the good people of South Africa rolling up their sleeves and saying: "Ons maak 'n plan" - we're going to make a plan.00:17:36:23 - 00:17:40:06Alec Hogg:Why did they reach out to you?00:17:40:08 - 00:18:12:09Rob Hersov:Because they said, "Rob, we need somebody to amplify this story. We need somebody to believe in us."They're from the second-smallest municipality in South Africa, in the middle of nowhere. Most people have never been there.They asked me to come and see what they've achieved and help spread the word.That's why I wanted to speak to you about it. The BizNews community is exactly the type of audience that understands bottom-up solutions and wants to see things fixed.00:18:12:11 - 00:18:37:06Alec Hogg:I understand that. But there are groups in Cederberg, Knysna, Mossel Bay and elsewhere. Why did they choose Rob Hersov?Five years ago you weren't particularly well-known in South Africa. Why do they tell you they reach out to you?00:18:37:08 - 00:19:21:13Rob Hersov:Because they say I resonate with ordinary South Africans.The ANC doesn't like me. Many large corporates don't like what I say. But ordinary South Africans often tell me that I say the things they can't afford to say publicly.And that's thanks to BizNews, Alec, and the BizNews community.00:19:21:15 - 00:20:32:13I'll give you a few indicators of Mafube's success.Electricity demonstrates what competence looks like.Rural Maintenance Free State sent me the figures. From February 2012 to January 2025:R1.13 billion was paid to Eskom.R131 million was invested in infrastructure upgrades.Capacity increased from 12.3 MVA to 21.1 MVA.R30 million in royalties was paid to the municipality.Vending stations increased from four to more than 20, plus online facilities.Renewable energy investment was introduced.Electricity losses remain below industry benchmarks.The KPIs are extraordinary, and they illustrate what has been achieved since 2012, although the real impact has been most visible over the past five years.00:20:51:00 - 00:21:14:00Alec Hogg:It's an interesting model because it effectively demonstrates how local services can be managed efficiently by the private sector, with benefits flowing to everyone.00:21:14:01 - 00:21:44:12Rob Hersov:The difference here is that it began as a black-led initiative that then attracted white support.Oupa Mokoena brought together Mafube First because people had had enough. They weren't getting reliable electricity. Sewage systems were failing. Communities were suffering.Then they partnered with people like Hans Pretorius and others.00:21:44:12 - 00:21:57:16If you saw the photograph I included in the article, Hans is standing there in his farmer's hat and boots.He's a great guy. He and Oupa worked together through Mafube First.That's the power of a black-led initiative attracting white support. That's the model.00:21:57:18 - 00:22:04:14Alec Hogg:Do you see similar examples elsewhere in the country where people from different backgrounds are working together?00:22:04:16 - 00:22:27:03Rob Hersov:I do. Cederberg First, for example, is led by a fantastic coloured leader.But in places like Mossel Bay and Knysna, it's been more top-down. Business communities started the initiatives because they realised they couldn't operate effectively in deteriorating environments.Then they worked to bring broader communities with them.00:22:27:05 - 00:22:30:23I actually think the Mafube model is more powerful.00:22:31:01 - 00:22:50:19Alec Hogg:It's similar to what Prince Mashele proposed at BNC#8 - that leadership needs to emerge from black communities first and then attract support from others.We should be beyond race politics after 30 years, but the reality is that we're not.00:22:50:21 - 00:23:02:14What impressed me recently was seeing Sam Motsi, one of the earliest BEE beneficiaries, speaking out publicly.Rob Hersov:Yes, he was powerful.00:23:02:16 - 00:23:26:02He's a friend and neighbour of mine.We need more people like Saki Macozoma, Sipho Pityana and Patrice Motsepe saying openly:"Yes, we've benefited from BEE, but it now needs to evolve into something that genuinely helps disadvantaged South Africans rather than benefiting only a select few."00:23:26:04 - 00:23:54:17Alec Hogg:Good point.So, going forward from this, let's say I'm living in a municipality that is completely dysfunctional. It's one of the many municipalities on the blacklist. It hasn't paid Eskom, it doesn't receive clean audit reports, and service delivery is collapsing.Where do people start? Based on what you've seen in Mafube and elsewhere, how should communities begin fixing their local environment?00:23:54:19 - 00:24:25:06Rob Hersov:We need to get Oupa Mokoena, Hans Pretorius and Julius Bosch on the road. We need them on BizNews. You should interview all three together.Then they need to travel around South Africa and show communities how this can be done. They have a proven model, and I think they need to take that message directly to other municipalities.00:24:25:08 - 00:24:34:11Alec Hogg:And then there's the Freedom Front Plus. It increasingly sounds as though you're trading in your DA membership card for an FF Plus card.00:24:34:13 - 00:25:16:03Rob Hersov:Not necessarily.I'm a big fan of Cilliers Brink. I'm a huge fan of Helen Zille, Retief Odendaal and Jordan Hill-Lewis. These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary things.You can go two or three levels down in the DA and still find highly capable people.But I'm also a big fan of the Freedom Front Plus. I think Corné Mulder is world-class. I genuinely do. My principles and values align closely with those of the Freedom Front Plus, and I see them as natural allies of the DA.What frustrates me is when these parties attack each other.00:25:16:05 - 00:25:52:22It's silly.The enemy isn't one another. The enemy is the ANC. Behind the scenes, it's also the EFF, MK and the communists.The DA and the Freedom Front Plus are natural allies. They need to stop scratching each other's eyes out.The reason I mention the Freedom Front Plus is because they are prominent in Mafube. Of the four wards in the municipality, Mafube First expects to win two, the Freedom Front Plus could win a third, and the ANC may hold the fourth.If that happens, control of the council shifts to the reformers.00:25:52:22 - 00:26:07:04So that's what we're working towards: Oupa Mokoena, Hans Pretorius and the Freedom Front Plus securing enough wards to put the municipality firmly in the hands of people who want to fix it.00:26:07:06 - 00:26:26:13Alec Hogg:You must have noticed the DA's recent by-election victory in Everton, a township area. It was a significant breakthrough.What is your gut feel - or perhaps based on information you're hearing - about what we can expect in the local government elections on 4 November?00:26:26:15 - 00:26:46:13Rob Hersov:That ward is on the outskirts of eThekwini. It's the first predominantly black township ward won outright by the DA.To me, that's a very significant signal.I believe Helen Zille is going to win Johannesburg. Absolutely no question in my mind.00:26:46:15 - 00:26:51:06I believe Cilliers Brink will win Tshwane, and Retief Odendaal will win Nelson Mandela Bay.00:26:51:08 - 00:26:59:07Alec Hogg:Is that based on polling, or simply what you're hearing from people on the ground?00:26:59:09 - 00:27:26:08Rob Hersov:I speak to everyone I can - business leaders, community leaders and ordinary citizens.My sense is that there's going to be a substantial swing towards the DA.I think Helen will get the numbers she needs in Johannesburg. I think Cilliers and Retief will do the same in Tshwane and Nelson Mandela Bay.00:27:26:10 - 00:27:38:05But they'll also need their natural allies - the Freedom Front Plus, the ACDP and, yes, even ActionSA.You thought I was going to say something else.00:27:38:06 - 00:27:51:08Alec Hogg:When you look at that possibility, and if those forecasts do materialise, what would it mean for South Africa?00:27:51:10 - 00:28:17:12Rob Hersov:It would represent a huge shift back towards the centre.It's critically important that it happens.But it's equally important that, if these parties take control of the major metros, they deliver quick wins.Every time I speak to Cilliers, Helen or Retief, I ask them: if you're elected, what are the quick wins?They all have answers.00:28:17:12 - 00:28:39:16The biggest challenge is bringing capable people back into government.Nelson Mandela Bay, for example, lost many talented officials over the years. A number of them now work in Cape Town.Cilliers has a strong bench ready to go. Helen knows exactly what she's doing.00:28:39:18 - 00:29:00:03Johannesburg still has a tremendous pool of talent.If Helen can bring those people together and deliver visible improvements quickly, residents will start to believe that competent governance is possible again.And if people see those quick wins in Johannesburg, Tshwane and Nelson Mandela Bay, they'll begin to think that the DA and its allies can fix South Africa at a national level too.00:29:00:05 - 00:29:04:19And then, perhaps by 2029, we're saved.00:29:04:21 - 00:29:26:18Alec Hogg:Athol Trollip was previously mayor of Nelson Mandela Bay and remains influential there.I wouldn't be surprised to see him playing a role again, particularly now that John Steenhuisen's influence in local politics has diminished.What are you seeing from ActionSA? Do you think Herman Mashaba is changing course?00:29:26:18 - 00:29:49:10Rob Hersov:I was very disappointed when ActionSA effectively handed power to the ANC in certain municipalities for political expediency.But politics is politics.The Patriotic Alliance has done similar things in Johannesburg.Parties want positions, experience and opportunities to build their benches.I don't like it, but I understand it.00:29:49:12 - 00:30:11:11I think, by the time these municipal elections arrive, you'll see ActionSA returning to its roots: capitalism, libertarian principles, the rule of law, decency and centrism.Herman Mashaba is an entrepreneur and a successful businessman. He's fundamentally a good person.I'm still irritated about some of the decisions he's made, as many people are.00:30:11:13 - 00:30:18:13But he has an opportunity to redeem himself this time around.He can be forgiven if he does the right thing.00:30:18:15 - 00:30:37:09Alec Hogg:It's always a pleasure speaking with Rob Hersov.He's a global entrepreneur and will be attending the BizNews Conference at the Drakensberg from 11 to 14 August.Come along - you won't regret it. It's going to be memorable.I'm Alec Hogg for BizNews.com.