Chris Steyn (00:01.292)

Welcome to the NdB Sunday Show with me, Chris Steyn and political commentator Solly Moeng. Welcome back, Solly

Solly Moeng (00:12.151)

Hello Chris. Always happy, you know that and I always look forward to these lovely conversations we have.

Chris Steyn (00:18.136)

So do I. And today I would like to talk about political reputations. The word politician is pretty much a dirty word. Some would say so is the word journalist, but we are focusing on politicians today.

Solly Moeng (00:34.764)

Right.

Chris Steyn (00:36.812)

Not every politician has sold his or her soul. Can you think of one or two you would like to single out on a positive note?

Solly Moeng (00:37.163)

Yeah…

Solly Moeng (00:49.457)

I think the DA's Ian Cameron, I think he's managed to keep his voice. So he's remained fairly consistent. The things that he said, he used to say that he used to stand for justice, good policing, good governance in the policing sector, the need to to pay attention to the violence that happens in the poor communities and all that. He still stands for those things. And it's a very good thing because it's very rare for an activist, because that's what he was, an activist, to move into the political stage and still be allowed to keep his voice.

Because'cause when he was outside, his main, you know, project of endearment was South Africa, let me put it this way. But once you go into a political party, you have to care for the party, you have to keep quiet even when you disagree, and look the other way. And I think in a way I would even say kudos to the DA for allowing him to keep his voice. You know, I think there are parties where they would very quickly shut him up because, you know, maybe that's not what they believe in - and I hope he stays that way.

So I think that Ian Cameron has been very consistent and I think we do need voices like that outside of Parliament, but we also need them in Parliament where they can play a big role or at least stand a part in influencing legislation.

Chris Steyn (02:19.509)

Anybody else.

Solly Moeng (02:22.962)

I think sometimes I'm being unfair to Musi Maimane and to the fellow from Rize Mzansi, Songezo Zibi. So, they're not ministers of course, they are in government, they occupy, you know, oversight positions you know, important…

Solly Moeng (02:49.45)

Songezo is looking at the finances. So I think it's important that they keep outside…in their positions, they were able to say, but you must manage public funds here, here, here, here, here. Inside of government they are able to say, Well, how do we then use the same voices to influence the way things are done? How do we..,and Songezo has been very good in saying, you know, there have been investigations but there are no charges, so there are no criminal charges. I liked the voice that he used for instance on the Road Accident Fund. He was very good. I mean within the powers that are allocated to him, I think he's been very clear that the former CEO of the Road of the Road Accident Fund was the wrong person for the position. His abuse positions I mean probably if it were after him he would arrest him.

So I think out of ten I would give Songezo eight. Sometimes I think he's too mindful of who offered him that position. 'Cause look, he didn't come in there with major political backing, electoral backing. It's important that we also realise that and we acknowledge that people who came into those positions without major electoral backing, are really at the back and call of the most powerful parties. Because they could just be removed from those positions. It's not like the voters wanted him to be in this position. So I think that he should keep South Africa more important than the people who enabled him to get that position.

So should Musi Maimane. These two gentlemen have…

Solly Moeng (04:32.5)

…got voices that they use outside, they should use those voices inside.

But I think that I put them slightly below Ian Cameron. So Ian Cameron ten out of ten for me in terms of consistency. Musi Maimane and and and Songezo probably seven, yeah, I'm good to say seven.

But I think that it's important that the voters keep an eye on them.

If we look at Gayton McKenzie, he's all bluster. You know, he really just loves his voice. But he's a strong voice. He says a lot of things but he's been accused of things that are not nice. Even though some of those things have not been proven, you know.

I mean the whole appointments of boards, you know, and apparently favouring his own friends, the expenses, the public funds that he uses on his own in his overseas travel and he doesn't seem to care, you know. I mean you can't sit outside of the government and speak out against the abuse of public funds, public resources... And then once you go in there you see absolutely nothing wrong with spending thirty two million rands on a trip.

So I think that the South African voters must watch these people. They mustn't just be swayed by, you know, people who have stage presence and who once you give them the microphone, they say all these things and but once they get into the positions they then they become the monsters that they used to speak against. McKenzie is often too close to Ramaphosa. It's almost like he needs to be there. You know, he's no longer this guy who speaks out against things like Phala Phala, things like what's going on with this Maumela guy who's apparently close to Ramaposa in one way or another. So McKenzie is almost like he's just happy to be there and he, you know, it's almost like he is at the beck and call of Ramaposa and the ANC.

He has made it very clear many times that, you know, yeah, he's it's not going to…

Solly Moeng (06:41.268)

…turn his back against… I'm not saying people must simply just turn their back against the ANC, but you can say things when you are outside of government and this is what we're talking about and go into government and become another thing. So I think those people who support his party must be very clear about whether they're supporting the voice that he has and the filibustering or whether they say, you know what, this is the South Africa that we want changed and the South Africa is not changing.

yeah, I think those are the four people, three, four people I would like to call out.

Steenhuisen is no longer there in the position as leader of the DA. He was also very good as an opposition leader. Once he got in there he was just happy to travel with Ramaposa to China and when he was in the White House with Trump, he wasn't the head of the Opposition.

So I think it's important that… My view is that Geordin Hill-Lewis must not become a minister. Okay? From a reputation perspective. Because remember we keep saying that the ministers serve at the pleasure of the president. Of course the president can choose to appoint you or to not appoint you, but he doesn't own the conscience of any minister. This is very important. But once you go in there, we mustn't forget that the president is a deployee of a political party.

So he goes back to …all those people who sit around him at the top six or top twelve of the ANC or whatever it is, to say, okay, whom do we give this position to. So Geordin Hill-Lewis, if I were him, I would not go into parliament.

Just like Herman Mashaba. Mashaba was smart to say, I'm not going into government, I want to still stand outside. It doesn't mean that one becomes holier than the other, but if you want to be in control of your narrative, you can't go and subject yourself to the leader of the party that you're opposing.

Chris Steyn (08:31.896)

Some politicians had one voice before the general election, Solly, and then embraced a completely foreign language after the election. Who would you single out there?

Solly Moeng (08:48.438)

Look, most of them had to compromise as many of them had to. So of course I'm not naive. Once you're outside you have all the freedom to say all the things you want. Once you go into the tent we need to realise that okay, especially if you know, once you occupy a position or you want to get certain things passed, supported, you need to say what do I give in in exchange for what? So all the former opposition leaders, the main ones were in the media every day, they had to give in to something.

Okay, Mashaba didn't go into co into government but he - and it's been spoken about the way ActionSA was very clear about not working with the ANC - went in to push the ANC out of power and then people are saying wait a minute, you're saying this but you're working with the ANC in in in Tshwane/// what's what's going on? I think that to some extent ActionSA has struggled to explain that position.

Right. But I mean he tried to say, look, to stay in government, to stand a chance of influencing things, we needed to make compromises here and there. But even then he must, they must still be very clear about where they stand with the ANC. They must be very clear about what separates them, what distinguishes them from the ANC.

And what happens in the elections coming up in Johannesburg. I mean then you know, sometimes there's these personality issues. Issues that in my view are not healthy. I think the people of Johannesburg, just like these people in politics, must say what is really needed to be done here and what are we prepared to give in return for the opportunity to be a part of the solution?

And the truth is in the same way that…
Solly Moeng (10:41.44)

…Herman actually says you have to work with the ANC in Tshwane to get Doctor Nasiphi Moya in as leader, as mayor of Tshwane, in the coming elections they might have to work with Helen Zille, with the DA for instance. And they can't say because we hate Helen Zille and DA or you know, and all the things they say about Helen Zille, therefore we can't work with her. No. If she is the right person to partner with, to resolve the problems of Johannesburg, work with her.

The same way that we're able to say, well, the voters decided that we must work in a coalition so there's a big coalition that's coming up in Johannesburg and I suspect that a lot of people, especially the black middle class, will vote for DA, for Helen Zille. They're not going to put it on social media. They're not going to make a lot of noise about it. They'll just quietly support Helen Zulle. Not because they love her or they hate her, but because they just want something different. Okay. Johannesburg is messed up. And people must just forget emotions and and be clear about whom they want to support, who is consistent, who is inconsistent, who is unable to explain the inconsistency, 'cause they have to explain why they take certain positions and it might be very clear, you know, they mustn't take the people of Johannesburg of a Cape Town of of an eThekwini of a Nelson Mandela Bay for granted because people will see these things. And I think increasingly South Africans are aware of who is taking them for a ride and who's not taking them for a ride.

Chris Steyn (12:11.63)

Who do you think is the most relieved, happiest politician in South Africa at the moment?

Solly Moeng (12:18.774)

I think it's Fikile Mbalula. I honestly didn't see this one coming. Actually I had decided to just stay away from it and see which way judges were going to jump on this one. Either way, look, the judges took the effects that were placed before them and they considered them, you know, with one eye on the Constitution and I think maybe the right of South Africans to vote and all that.

But there are also ramifications to the decision. But to answer your question straight, I think Fikile Mbalula. I hear he collapsed, I don't know why he collapsed. I think he was overwhelmed by emotions. But he should be happy, the ANC should be happy that at least if they lose power, it won't be because of some technical error. And I think it's a good thing that if they lose those, especially those municipalities that where they stood a chance of not being able to participate in, it shouldn't be because of their technical glitches and then errors. It should be because the voters have said we do not want to anymore. So it's a fair thing at the end of the day.

So yeah, the ANC should be relieved, but they should work hard to convince the South Africans. I don't know how much of that they are left with, that they have the right people to be voted for. But you know South Africans are full of surprises. So we don't know what's going to come out.

Chris Steyn (13:46.508)

In which category would you put MP Fadiell Adams, who claims that charges of cruelty to his parrot are politically motivated?

Solly Moeng (13:58.839)

You know, religiously I regard myself as a secular humanist, okay? But when I heard that about him I thought, this man needs to be prayed for. Maybe all the praying people of South Africa need to get together and pray for him. I don't know if it's political desperation or if it's disrespect for the people of South Africa.

I mean to say something as foolish as that, because it really is foolish. And expect to be taken seriously. And then you see the pictures of the animal that he's accused of not having taken care of, of having neglected, and the stories about his dogs.

So then it becomes very clear that this man, I think that the kind of help that he needs, he is not going to find it in politics. He's going to find it elsewhere. I think that and I'm being I may appear to be mean, but think we all have this woundedness, but before you acknowledge your own woundedness as an individual, you can't solve the problem of society of the other people.

And I think Fadiel, you know, I mean I've listened to some of the stuff he said about Coloured people, you know, being victims and all that. And I've always I haven't really criticised him a lot on that 'cause I try to say let's see where you come from, let me let me climb his Coloured hill and see what he sees from the top of his hill. But sometimes he says things that are really mean, you know, and the story of animals…and his general conduct as a politician leaves a lot to be desired.

I really have given him and I continue to give him the benefit of the doubt, for instance when he says, Well, you know, the suspended police chief, there are things that he must respond to. I said it, you and I discussed this thing before. And my attitude was, well, maybe there's something in there, let's hear what he has to say to that. But then he gets involved in these things. And like, should this man be a lawmaker in the Republic of South Africa? Hm, I don't think so.

Chris Steyn (16:04.142)

Solly, meanwhile, Deputy President Paul Mashatile is back on the campaign trail after a long absence because of illness. However, he does look very frail.

Solly Moeng (16:14.282)

He looks very, very frail. I looked at him, I looked at his eyes almost popping out. I looked at his gait, how he walks, how he sits, how he looks at people. I listened to his voice and I said, This man needs more time for convalescence. I don't know what's going on and of course, you know, in the Republic of South Africa we don't get involved in what's really ailing people unless they decide to share their stories with us. But I think Mashatile needs help.

Look, if I were in his position, I would be worried about a lot of things. Okay. I think the truth is he needs to be in the position of power because there are all sorts of things that are looking down on him. All the millions that were spent on his kids, and then they tell us, yeah, they returned some of them. We don't know how much they returned. There's all sorts of stories of corruption. His relationships with Sodi and a whole lot of other people, and generally he can be quite arrogant, you know, when he responds to these things. So, I'm putting a lot of things into this discussion, but he needs to be there in order to be protected.

That's what I'm saying - and he knows that Ramaphosa doesn't have more than a year now to remain president, and he's normally the next person into that position. Is he going to make it to the next electoral conference of the ANC? Is he going to be able to campaign and convince ANC people? ANC people, we never know what it takes to convince them. But is he going to be struggling to run the journey to the next ANC election? I don't know. Is he the right person to be the deputy president of South Africa in these times when we're facing Trump and all the things that are happening globally, regionally in Africa.

Look, the system that we have gave us this man as deputy president. The system that we have gave us Ramaphosa as president of South Africa. Maybe one day soon when the ANC is awakened, South Africa must sit down and say what changes do we bring? Because the problems that we have in South Africa are not just…

Solly Moeng (18:29.046)

…problems of personalities. They are structural systemic issues. We need to have a conversation about what we change, what powers we take away from the presidency. If we have coalitions in the future, must the president and the deputy president come from the same political party? I don't think so. So yeah, we have all these personalities that do not inspire the kind of confidence that this Republic of ours requires in order to become the great country that it still has potential to become. Mashatile is definitely not one of those people, sadly.

Chris Steyn (19:04.75)

There is also great concern for former president, Mr. Jacob Zuma, who fell ill on the campaign trail and had to be hospitalised. It's not clear whether he will be able to return to the campaign trail before the election in early November.

Solly Moeng (19:25.354)

Yeah, I think if you look at the history of Zuma over the past ten, fifteen years, he always falls ill at the right time. You know, I mean there's a court case that's meant to happen. Now he's managed he's failed all the attempts is, you know, to push back against, you know, needing to come and testify and now he's falling ill again.

Maybe it's really… He's not a very young man - and I think people who think that MKP is not going to stand the test of time without him holding it, you know, with his fragile fingers. I think they are right, those people. So apparently they cancelled the big, you know, campaign launch event that they were going to host because they don't have the money…they already owe a lot of money to some of their service providers.

Chris Steyn (20:10.264)

The manifesto, they canceled the manifesto launch.

Solly Moeng (20:25.214)

Because they owe too many people there a lot of money.

So Zuma is still the glue that holds the MKP together. His daughter is not there, at least for now. She might come back. Duduzani i… I don't know. I think the criminal justice system was still asking more questions about his relationship with the Guptas and what really happened there. I think what happened in the past is not enough. And anyway, he won't leave this country. I don't think so. And I don't think he should leave this country.

so I feel pity for the MKP people. I think of course they are afraid, I don't think anybody with them will stand up and say, Okay, we need to find somebody more robust than the Duduzane if anything happens to Zuma because a party that relies on just one man… It's not the only party in South Africa. We're just talking about this one. A party that relies on the goodwill and the good health of one person for that to survive doesn't have a future.

I mean you can take whatever you want from the ANC and I often do 'cause I'm usually very harsh on them but the ANC would be very hard to collapse because a person is no longer there… They are very structured. They've been around for many years and don't rely really in terms of the continued existence on the goodwill or good health of one person.

The MKP and a few other parties in our realm rely on individuals like Zuma.I think we must keep watching the space of course from a human to human perspective. I hope that he's not in too much pain. I hope that he goes back home and he feels better. But I still have a grudge against him for what he did to South Africa. That's the truth.

Chris Steyn (22:05.708)

Have you seen the rumour that former ambassador Nathi Mthethwa’s family is moving back to France following his fall from a hotel there?

Solly Moeng (22:18.516)

Yeah. I have friends in France, some of whom know this family. And I asked them, This is what is being said. I said to them, This is what is being said in South Africa, his family is moving there, what is going on? I don't know if she speaks French, the wife of Nathi. Maybe she does. I don't know. But if I were them, if I were their advisor, I would issue a statement. Because people are saying a lot of things.

You don't own the narrative on whether or not these things are true because keeping quiet doesn't make sense because then everything gets said. We live in an era of social media, people say and also in an era where a lie many times repeated becomes truth for some people. So you need to say to South Africans, please stop it. I'm moving to Paris if it's true that she's moved to Paris because I love France and I want to live there instead of South Africa, whatever. And it's not…

But she must say something. Not saying anything then feeds into the suspicion that exists in parts of South Africa. That some of these people, Gavin Woods…and a few others were supposed to be dead, didn't really die, but they needed to to be taken out of the picture so that they don't collapse other people who are who are invested in whatever activities they were involved in. So I think that I and people are saying that about Mthethwa. People are saying he didn't die. We didn't see the body. Where was he buried? Maybe he was buried. I'm not gonna. I didn't see the body. Okay.

But tell the truth. Tell South Africans why you are moving to Paris. Tell South Africans you saw your husband. He died and all that stuff. Because right now we're sitting in an era of who says what, who's telling the truth. We know that the South African government did not officially ask the French government to provide them with assistance - and the final report especially of what happened to Mthethwa…

Solly Moeng (24:22.464)

They didn't. So they can't say the French didn't give us a report. They did not ask for it. And in terms of the law, they have to formally ask for it. Okay, we discussed this before. Just like when you extradite somebody, you can't just expect the other country to extradite them. You need to formally request for that to happen. So we don't know what's going on. And the more we have all these holes in this story of Mthethwa, the more the whole story will continue to be like a ghost that refuses to die.

Chris Steyn (24:52.174)

Have you been following the bail hearing of former Deputy National Commissioner General Shradrack Sibiya?

Solly Moeng (25:00.0)

Yeah, but man. I almost said poor man, but it didn't so I'm not saying poor man. I think that look this man has got so much to answer to. And he was not like many of his colleagues actually, he was not sufficiently respectful of the position that he held. I'm thinking about this thing. I mean sixteen years old, why would you want to do that? No matter how attractive or how in a mood she might be towards you, she's sixteen years old and she's the daughter of a friend, mister the so called Mr M - and taking them to that place where they were eventually arrested, why would you do that?

But especially not only because you are a 59-year-old man, but because you hold the position that you hold and there's so much violence against children in this country, so much abuse of children. There have been stories of older men giving HIV AIDS and other illnesses to kids. I'm not saying there's a case, I'm just saying, you know, there are also things that get said about

So I think there's a particular responsibility that he had that he obviously neglected. I think you know, I always say when you become powerful, when you have a lot of power, you need a whisperer. You need somebody who's able to stand in front of you and say, But you can't do that. And you know that it comes from a good place. This person is not trying to destroy you. They know what you're capable of, or they know that you can be blind to certain things. So they're there to say, Don't do it. Let's go home. Let's go and have coffee, let's go and have tea, but don’t get involved. Because anything can happen.

So he has this story, but he has the story of the Madlanga and other stories looking at him. Okay, he's resigned from his position.

Do I think he must get bail?

Solly Moeng (26:42.57)

Again, my attitude is always that the judges will take all the information that gets placed before them and on the basis of the facts placed before them they determine whether this man deserves bail or not. But getting bail or not doesn't make the moral responsibility of what he's alleged to have been involved in go away.

Chris Steyn (27:05.326)

And the 16 year old and 18 year old have made it clear that they are traumatised, suicidal and terrified of him getting bail and avenging himself on them and their families

Solly Moeng (27:14.582)

Yeah. I think we should also be concerned about his own children. I mean I've seen pictures of his son right behind him in court and pictures of his daughter. What must they be thinking? What would people be saying to them about their father giving all this stuff? It must be really tough for his kids, for his family, for his kids.

The statements were taken from the young, the sixteen year old and the eighteen year olds and they said what we've just described. I'm not in a position to say they're telling the truth, they're telling lies. I don't know who coaches them. In the end the judge will make a decision and say, This makes sense, this doesn't make sense, this is the way we go.

But it's going to be really tough for him. I don't see how he's going to integrate society and still be able to work with his face, you know, with his chin up. In the end, look, there are broader consequences, implications for the country that we live in for this kind of stuff. You know, and I think there must be consequences at some point so that hopefully other people who occupy his position do not repeat the same mistake, hopefully, do not commit the same crimes. If you're going to take a sixteen year old and do what he's alleged to have done to her, it's not a mistake. It's a criminal act.

Chris Steyn (28:44.63)

Indeed. Thank you. was political commentator, Solly Moeng on the NdB Sunday Show with me, Chris Steyn. Thank you, Solly.

Solly Moeng (28:54.657)

Pleasure. Thank you. Thank you, Chris.

Solly Moeng: SA Politicians: The good, the bad & the…