Cynthia Stimpel: The heroic sacrifices of SA’s whistleblowers on corruption… — The NdB Sunday Show

In this edition of the NdB Sunday Show, Chris Steyn hosts the iconic whistleblower, Cynthia Stimple who, as Group Treasurer, blew the whistle at SAA. Now the director of Courage Hub, a new group to support whistleblowers, Stimpel recalls her own traumatic experiences as a whistleblower, and outlines all the ways in which her group offers support to past, present, and future whistleblowers. With the extreme risks involved, Stimpel gives potential whistleblowers detailed advice on how to protect themselves. “We will give you guidance on how to report, who to go to, which mechanisms to use….You don't want to lose your livelihood. You don't want to put your life at risk.” Stimpel also recalls the epic walk she did in remembrance of 40 whistleblowers over 40 days over 700 kilometers along the Cape Camino.. Meanwhile, shel calls on South Africans to become part of the solution. “And although we've had the Zondo Commission, we've had many commissions already, but with the Madlanga Commission, we are seeing how deep and entrenched and embedded the corruption is....my own mantra is that if it is to be, it is up to me.” Courage Hub will also be doing ethics training in schools “to coach them in a way that they stay on the moral pathway and cannot be easily swayed to do the wrong thing”..Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox every morning on weekdays. Register here.Support South Africa's bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here.If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here..Watch here.Listen here.Edited transcript of the interview.Chris Steyn (00:01.155)Welcome to the NdB Sunday Show with me, Chris Steyn and iconic whistleblower, Cynthia Stimple. Welcome, Cynthia. It's wonderful to be talking to you again.Cynthia Stimpel (00:15.554)Good day, Chris. So great to meet up again and have a chat. So thank you for inviting me to your show today.Chris Steyn (00:23.597)You are welcome. You are now the director of Courage Hub, is a new group to support whistleblowers. But I'd like to take you back to your time at South African Airways, where as Group Treasurer, you took the drastic step to blow the whistle and suffered greatly for it. Please remind our viewers of your own personal experience as a whistleblower.Cynthia Stimpel (00:51.982)Thank you, Chris. So looking back, it's actually 10 years. Can you believe it? This happened in 2016 and now we're sitting in 2026. So when all this transpired was towards the end of 2015, but when I actually blew the whistle was in 2016, around March, I was already looking at the issues that I was being faced wit since December. I was asked in December 2015, I was asked to ratify a board resolution, which I refused. In January of 2026, I was then asked to bring on suppliers for..as new suppliers instead of the banks to source funding for SAA which I refused. And then I was also asked to approve a transaction advisor to source funding for SAA which I refused. And so that obviously led up to where I had to blow the whistle because I realised that our board was interfering operationally with our organisation and the work that I was doing with my team in our TreasuryDepartment and secondly was that they were making demands on what we were supposed to do and transgressing all our procedures and policies which we have internally that are normally approved through the board anyway and so when I did speak out my first methodology was to just directly push back with the acting CFO at the time and say we're not doing this; this is going against our policies and procedure: let's go out and do a full request for proposal for funding which at the time she refused. Instead they wanted us to go directly with a Free State development corporate and then they got a transaction advisor which they wanted us to utilise the transaction advisor. And then the last thing was I was actually called into a meeting in May to sign a bid adjudication committee proposal to use BNP Capital as this…Cynthia Stimpel (03:05.225)…who was never in funding to sign them and approve them to source funding for SAA. And again… refused. And so then I reported it to the National Treasury. And when I got no word from National Treasure… I'd also reported it before going to National Treasury to our executive manager - and there was nothing to stop it - internally to our chief head of risk and our chief head of audit…Then went to OUTA and that's where we reported it. And with OUTA's help, we were able to stop the transaction and save SAA 256 million that would have been paid out and not been able to recoup today, whereas we prevented this from happening. So in reflecting back now 10 years, I'm happy that I did it and was able to stop money being paid out to a small...unknown advisor that would not have done anything for SAA but rather just taken the funds.Chris Steyn (04:09.996)But you paid a heavy price personally.Cynthia Stimpel (04:15.018)Indeed, and that's the price. Unfortunately, as a whistleblower or a person who speaks the truth or a person who stands up against senior management in doing the wrong thing, they suffer the ultimate as in you lose your jobs, you lose your livelihood, your reputation gets damaged, you're blacklisted, you incur unnecessary legal fees.On top of that, because you have no job, you're unable to pay your home loans or your car loans and so many of our whistleblowers suffer the same fate. Obviously there are some of us who suffer the ultimate fate like Babita Deokaran… all those who have stood up and spoken out against corruption have lost their lives.Chris Steyn (05:14.946)How will Courage Hub, SA, support whistleblowers now?Cynthia Stimpel (05:23.15)So we looked at the gaps before we started setting up Courage Hub.We know that there are organisations like OUTA doing wonderful work in the corruption space where they are speaking to whistleblowers and getting the information and supporting whistleblowers in some way. I know OUTA paid my legal fees and at the moment many of the whistleblowers are getting supported legally through two other organizations called PPLAAF, which is the platform to support whistleblowers in Africa. And they provide the legal support together with counseling and some financial assistance. And then there's the organization called The Whistleblower House which have worked for for three years will also provide the support as in legal fees, counseling fees, a financial stipend, a small amount to assist whistleblowers and security when they need it. And so before I started Courage Hub, I was looking at what are we lacking and we have gaps in helping whistleblowers and parties giving whistleblowers their voice because many wait for their cases and the cases are postponed for years before they have a chance to actually speak and tell their own story. So what Courage Hub offers is for whistleblowers to tell these stories via podcast. So we will listen to them and we will tell this, help them tell these stories through our podcasts, which they will then be made publicly for those who wanted made publicly. And for those who feel I need to tell my story, but I don't want it in the public space for risk purposes, putting their own family lives at risk, but they would like it for the family to know the story, especially grandchildren.Cynthia Stimpel (07:14.916)Or you know they may pass on but then there's the story which was left untold and they could tell their story then through this podcast so that's part of it. In my own experience as a whistleblower I found that the more I spoke about my story the more I healed so it was a healing mechanism and that's what I want to offer for whistleblowers and those that have spoken out in public spaces all told their stories many times have found that it has healed them, that they don't feel the pain and the trauma as much anymore as in those early days of telling the stories. So that's one of the areas we're going to offer to whistleblowers. The other is a platform to exhibit stories. So behind me you may see pictures that we have of deceased whistleblowers, so those who don't have a voice anymore. It's how can we still keep these stories alive and we will invite their families to come and share their own experience here which they can do through podcast about what happened when their parent or friend or mother or sister was killed through standing up for the truth or standing up for courage… is why the word the courage hub has come out. So that's what we're going to do is exhibit these stories. We have done in our launch, which we had on the 27th of April, we've depicted stories of deceased whistleblowers, but we've also exhibited stories of those that are alive. And we will keep on doing that as we go along and every month come up with a new story and exhibit that story and post it on social media. And then the third part of our focus would be is training the youth. Reason being, what we've seen is that our country is so rife with corruption.Cynthia Stimpel (09:16.208)And although we've had the Zondo Commission, we've had many commissions already, but with the Madlanga Commission, we are seeing how deep and entrenched and embedded the corruption is. And so I felt and strongly with my two partners, which is Brendan Grealy and Niko Seakamela, that how can we go...and try and build a culture that is more focused on ethical behavior and having a moral compass. And we thought we need to start the training in schools. And that's what we're doing. So with Brendan and Niko, they're going to focus on training in schools, on ethics. And they're going to do it in a role play and literally bring in the youth to tell their own challenges and the ethical dilemmas they are faced and how can we coach them in a way that they stay on the moral pathway and cannot be easily swayed to do the wrong thing. So that's going to be a focus. And then the last focus on whistleblowers is two things. One is to train them on how to do public speaking so they can either write their own books or tell their own stories and be able to earn from it. Because the challenge is that most whistleblowers are unable to find new jobs, unable to reinvent themselves and thereby earning through that. So that's one of the skills we want to focus on. And then in partnership with OUTA, we want to look at how do we find employment for whistleblowers, because now that is giving them the dignity…Cynthia Stimpel (11:05.749)…back and that's going to be another focus. Thank you.Chris Steyn (11:11.01)Cynthia, how can members of the public and the private sector support you?Cynthia Stimpel (11:18.296)Thank you. That's an excellent question, Chris, because that's what we want. The members of the public to start being involved. You know, that I can imagine the majority of our country watching the Madlanga Commission and feeling totally helpless and seeing the devastation around our country when you're just driving, you see the potholes, you see the state of despair and destruction, no water, no access to electricity and every infrastructure that existed that was working well is not working well. So here I would like to put forward to our citizens and members of the public how to help. Please support organisations that are already working in this space, like OUTA, for instance, like PPLAAF, like Whistleblower House, Corruption Watch…And then for new organisations like ourselves, please contribute on our website if you can. You know, a hundred rand will buy you two coffees and the water probably and you know that can easily help towards a whistleblower to training a whistleblower giving them skills helping them heal through telling these stories and that will help us process that for you and then…for and I'm starting with a minimum of a hundred Rand obviously but it's a way of just donating and becoming part of the solution rather than being part of the problem so I'm…Cynthia Stimpel (13:00.144)Looking at all our listeners, all our members of the public, look at how you can become part of the solution. So find ways in all this media space, as I said, supporting these organisations, but even in your own environment, go and find out ways, how can we help? Start and fix a pothole. How can we help towards maybe there's a key lamppost that is dangerous for your children to walk under? How can we help maybe put up a solar panel there to keep that light going? But we need to be part of the solution as citizens. And my own mantra is that if it is to be, it is up to me. So I need to start and take that first step of solving that problem or linking up with people that we can find the solution to solve a bigger problem. And I think that's how we need to change our thinking and our mindset to help and make a safer South Africa and a better South Africa for all of us.Chris Steyn (14:09.96)Cynthia, considering the risks of whistleblowing in South Africa, the risks to lives and livelihood, what would your message be to those people who consider whistleblowing?Cynthia Stimpel (14:27.17)That's a key question that sits on many of our minds, Chris. And for me, for those, I would like us all to still do the ethical thing, you know, but not risk your lives and your family's lives and your jobs. And so therefore it is imperative that we do report on corruption. It's imperative that we do speak out, but do it in safe mechanisms. So, OUTA has a safe portal where you can report on.. Then you stay back as a good citizen. Don't follow up, don't talk about it at the coffee station in your organisation. Don't say, guess what I did today? Please, you're putting your lives at risk. But do report. Find ways and mechanisms. Report anonymously. Find organisations that can help you, that can protect you, that can give you advice on how to report safely. And also give you advice if you need to go to lawyers or you've already got to a lawyer to give you information. Because remember, once you've spoken out and your name is out there in the media, you are putting yourself at risk. Avoid that. Find those mechanisms, even contact Courage Hub. It's going to be one of our tools we're going to do and you can come and find us in a physical space. We're at 44 Stanley, Auckland Park. We will give you guidance how to report….Cynthia Stimpel (16:11.448)….who to go to, which mechanisms to use. And then again, don't spread it out to everybody. Keep quiet. You've done your civic duty as a good South African citizen. And then carry on with your job. You don't want to lose your livelihood. You don't want to put your life at risk. And that would be the advice I would like to give, that you do speak up though, but just find the right mechanism, the right tools, and do it safely. Thank you.Chris Steyn (16:39.316)Cynthia, meanwhile, what are your thoughts on the Protected Disclosure Bill?Cynthia Stimpel (16:48.408)So I'm currently reviewing the Protected Disclosures Bill. First thing is we'd like to change the name. The name should be Protection of Whistleblowers Act. Rather than the bill, I don't know why they're changing it to bill now because the original was called the Protected Disclosures Bill, and we'd like to say Protecting Whistleblowers Bills. So that's the name change. Okay, having gone through it, there are some challenges that's in the bill that doesn't protect whistleblowers who… have previously spoken out…. None of those will be protected under the new bill. It will only pertain to new bills, new whistleblowers who come forward and tell their story. The second thing is that it's also excluding certain, so it says it will pay a reward or reparations or some sort of compensation for whistleblowers if they speak out and they can recoup some of the funds, and they're excluding people that are working in the public space. And that is strange because if you look at both sides, our private organisations together with our public organisations have been involved in fraud and we've seen that across the spectrum. So now to exclude only the public sector when we know the very money is our taxpayers' money, which should be used for the very infrastructure that we're seeing that's…Cynthia Stimpel (18:33.739)…in disrepair, those public officials should be recognised in some way. So I find that very unfair that they've raised this. There's a lot to be desired in the way the current bill has been set out. And so yes, we will be responding as the Courage Hub and we are representing whistleblowers views. So we've sat with whistleblowers and got their views, which we will then be reflecting on that.And yeah, there are still, there's quite a few other points, but I'll stop there. Thank you.Chris Steyn (19:11.224)Lastly Cynthia, tell our viewers about that epic walk you did for whistleblowers.Cynthia Stimpel (19:20.327)Thank you. In 2024, I...thought and put a proposal forward to our board of The Whistleblower House at the time was how can we highlight the plights of whistleblowers and also a way of shining the light on them that they are not lost to us, that they did brave things, they did courageous, they took courageous steps. And so it was a way of remembering and uplifting these stories. So in the beginning of October, I walked for 40 days over 700 kilometers along the Cape Camino in our own country. We have a Cape Camino. And on each day, I posted a story about our whistleblowers. The first week, I put it in themes. And the first week, I focused on all the deceased whistleblowers and how they stood up against corruption, how they reported on it, and how they lost lives. And then the next theme, so each of the four and a half weeks that I walked, I posted on the legal challenges. I focused on legal, I focused on psychological, I focused on security, and then the financial challenges. So those were my themes. And I remembered over 40 whistleblowers during that time.Cynthia Stimpel (20:57.793)And while I walked along the Cape Camino, I also picked up a pebble along the way, and I dedicated at the end of my walk, which we landed up in Langebaan e area in the Langebaan Nature Reserve, I wrote the name of each whistleblower on these pebbles and then I left it there in the reserve. So anyone who is walking the Cape Camino or visits Langebaan, especially around August for the beautiful flowers along the West Coast, please do go and find those pebbles and let me know if they're still there.But I dedicated a pebble to each of our whistleblowers and I dedicated this walk to our whistleblowers for them to know that they walked a journey of hardship, but it was also a journey of courage and a journey of, you know, sheer heroism. And so it was dedicated to them. And thanks for asking about this. Yeah, I have whistleblowers close to my heart, so I will always...Chris Steyn (22:04.661)I followed your journey every day. Thank you. That was iconic whistleblower, Cynthia Stimple, now the director of Courage Hub SA to help other whistleblowers. Speaking to me, Chris Steyn, on the NDB Sunday Show. Thank you, Cynthia. Always an honor to chat with you.Cynthia Stimpel (22:04.857)Thank you, wonderful.Cynthia Stimpel (22:24.816)Thank you so much, Chris. And thanks for having me on. Have a wonderful day..For More Information, contact: Courage Hub South Africa. 44 Stanley Avenue, Braamfontein Werf,. 2092 Johannesburg. +27 603490744. info@couragehubsa.org

Cynthia Stimpel: The heroic sacrifices of SA’s whistleblowers on corruption… — The NdB Sunday Show

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