The Sunday Show - Neil De Beer: SA’s “pseudo undercover dictatorship” and “murder by power…”

In the latest Sunday Show on BizNews, Neil De Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement, and journalist Chris Steyn talk about the latest political drama. De Beer charges that South Africa is in pseudo undercover dictatorship - despite the African National Congress (ANC) being “in ICU”. He comments on all the options ranging from a Vote of No Confidence in President Cyril Ramaphosa to Democratic Alliance (DA) Federal Chair Helen Zille dropping either the nuclear bomb or atom bomb “which she says she holds”. He weighs the strengths of the factions in the ANC and says, in the last NEC, there was such a stand-off between President Cyril Ramaphosa and SG Fikile Mbalula over the party staying in the GNU that rumour has it that the president actually got up and left. Meanwhile, word on the street has it that Gauteng Premier Panyaza Lesufi is losing popularity. As for future elections, De Beer warns: “The ANC has an attitude with its gatherings, its giving of Kentucky, its giving of the T-shirt and the cap, and it wins those logistics every time. And until the DA and all of us don't get it that we've got to fight fire with fire, we will never get that power change in this country.” Turning to “murder by power’, De Beer laments the assassination of the Ekhurhuleni Audit Chief, as well as the alleged involvement of Special Forces soldiers in a “hitsquad unit to kidnap and take people out”.

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Edited transcript of the interview

Chris Steyn (00:02.489)

Welcome to another Sunday Show with me, Chris Steyn and Neil De Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement. Morning, Neil, on a very stormy Sunday in the Western Cape.

Neil De Beer (00:15.628)

Yeah, indeed, winter is here. It's a winter Sunday, so sleeping late, rooibos tea, in a bit of pajamas won't do us too badly. But what made us warm in this country is the first official test of the Springboks. And damn right, we won it against Italy. Not that they didn't push back, but I'm happy that I can now on Sundays reveal our championships and our sports players out there who are undoubtedly better ambassadors, seemingly, than the one that we can't even choose in America. So to them, continue fighting. Next weekend, looking forward to the test being played at… And we should go there again, we agree.

Chris Steyn (01:06.359)

Let us start with the demise of former Deputy President DD Mabuza and all the praise singing that has ensued.

Neil De Beer (01:18.584)

Yeah, they used to call him the Cat. So he used to be called Didi The Cat Mabuza because they said he had nine lives. Well, we all know you are mortal and the time must come. Sad as it may be, we pay our respects to the family. He was a person that spent most of his life at some or other level, premier, as a mayor, as a person that is and has served as deputy president. 

We knew he was ill. He chose many occasion to get treatment of that illness in Russia. So we can only dispute and second guess, but we know that he at the end of the day succumbed without being able to recycle his oxygen and his life was then cut short of that. Many speculations, was he poisoned? Was there a onslaught on his life? Chris, this goes into another rabbit hole of BizNews. So God bless him, may he rest in peace and his family.

Chris Steyn (02:35.887)

Let us go to the National Dialogue, Neil. What are the chances of the African National Congress actually listening since it does not seem to have done so in 30 years?

Neil De Beer (02:49.666)

Chris, nothing. I mean, we've maintain the scale that the National Dialogue, yes, came pre any other matters as part of the call it agreement document to form the GNU. There's one thing that I always want to know. It's intent. What was your intention? So even in law, Chris, we test what is your intention? What was it? Were you intending to kill this person? Yeah or no? So the answer at this current moment is it seems from many sources that the GNU, when constructed, agreed on a National Dialogue. Now, for example, our two brothers in the fight, sisters, sometimes craziness in the fight, they bring forth matters that they agreed upon and when something happens it goes wrong. Then it's not my child, you know, then it's not my problem. And that is currently happening in the GNU where they directly took umbrage against the firing of a deputy minister and then this becomes the hula ba hula where now they are saying maybe in a punitive matter we withdraw from the National Dialogue.

I don't think that the DA cannot be present because they are the second largest party since the last election. Like it or not, politics is about sitting around a table with your adversaries, your opposite, to find a way. What we're just hearing all the time is there is no finding a way, there is no way out. 

And now...clearly, Helen Zille has dropped two possible bombs, a nuclear bomb and an atom bomb, which she says she holds. And both of them are tactical, both of them are usable, but both of them are going to take this country in a different trajectory. And that trajectory is if the DA walks out of the Government of National Unity.

Neil De Beer (05:13.442)

Well, it spurs on a channel what you know, because we told you what will happen. And there is thus the conundrum that Helen sits with. And what she then says is, the only alternative not to leave is to either call for a Vote of No Confidence against the President of this Republic, or that they recuse and accuse the people at this current moment in the ministry that are also tainted and tarred. So that is the journey of GNU. That is where they are today. 

And then horrifically, I think on Sunday, the President has a certain talk. You can see the camera on John Steenhuisen and Cyril unleashes a public attack of the attitude and what he calls selfishness of the DA. And immediately you saw John going onto his cell phone to take notes. So it's not healthy. It is particularly not seeing that this has been played out for them in the media. 

You  know, they think this is a play day. Where it's orchestrated for everybody to come and play. Kry jou koekie, Marie. Hardloop weg. This is our lives.

And I think maybe there will be another round of talks. There will be another round of discussion because National Dialogue, we bloody need, Chris, but we don't need it throttled down our throat. It cannot cost 700 million. And there's no way that this cannot have a punch and have inclusivity of the minor stakeholders of this country.

Chris Steyn (07:03.961)

So don't you think President Cyril Ramaphosa should face a Motion of No Confidence for inflicting another nine wasted years on South Africa?

Neil De Beer (07:14.68)

Yeah, I think so. I clearly think so. But, you know, that comma, Johan kom ons gaan op vakansie, maar… There's always a comma but. So the comma but at this current moment is, we cannot sit here after a year of this programme GNU and already come to the point where we're saying every second day divorce. Cry wolf. People are not going to fall for it. 

And I will reiterate my opinion that GNU either stands holistically and 100% or the DA leaves and a full on attack as official opposition then becomes again and I’d prefer that.

Chris Steyn (08:02.979)

How much more saber-rattling can the Democratic Alliance actually do?

Neil De Beer (08:08.298)

No, they're running out of swords. I mean, that's why it's called saber rattling. You need it to rattle. know, blikkie kos teen blikkie kos klink ook soos tin. So I think they're coming to the point now where Fikile, Helen, John, Cyril, who are the basic puppet masters around this, this is becoming stupid and not worth, I think, repetitive. We are just going to repeat ourselves.

Yeah, I fear that the elections of the DA, the elections upcoming of the ANC is going to determine very much so the outcome of 2029. No mistake, MK will be the new kid on the block and we will have to see the dynamics that they bring into the table.

Chris Steyn (09:01.433)

Do you think both the African National Congress and the Democratic Alliance are going to take punishment in next year's municipal elections?

Neil De Beer (09:13.538)

Yes, I think this continual polling just makes a person even more deurmekaar soos katkots op ’n tumble dryer. We have come to that point, Chris, where decisive leadership is lacking in this country. You can clearly see it in the country, be it on national, provincial, or on local level.

And we've got to look at the two main players at the moment, which is the DA and ANC. And no matter what they do, Helen and them at the press conference said, this was not a marriage of convenience. This was a marriage of no alternative. So we will have to sway our options.  But my opinion, we're changing the chairs on the infamous Titanic.

Chris Steyn (10:10.733)

What did you make of African National Congress chair Gwede Mantashe saying that it doesn't really matter who becomes the next president, he will influence him like he has always done.

Neil De Beer (10:25.75)

That's vulgar. I mean, it's democratic vulgar. Just to assume that because you are Gwede Mantashe and notably, every day eats a bit more of Gwede. Sitting there and saying, but Helen, you don't actually own the atom bomb alone. We have one. We can recall him. 

Now, Chris, very interesting and I am plugging in everywhere is that the last NEC there was a voracious fight, a stand-off between the President of this republic and Fekile Mbalula. The rumour is that the president actually got up and left. And the biggest argument at that moment was of the GNU. and this ANC staying in it. If this is true, it doesn't sound well at all.

Chris Steyn (11:31.823)

And who would be in Fekile's camp now? Do you think Mantashe has crossed? Is he with Mashatile, Deputy President Paul Mashatile now and with Fikile?

Neil De Beer (11:38.422)

No, I think Gwede is a brusher…he wants to brush everything with butter as long as the butter drops in his gut. 

And you can slowly and slowly see where these formations are coming from. Your Patrice Motsepes, your Mchunus, your Fikiles, your Lesufis. But I don't, I think Lesufi is losing. I think  he losing ground. That's the rumour on the street. He's not as popular as what he thought he was. He is not Caesar. So the people that are hanging around are the people that have now already declared, are there, and it looks dismal. Ff they remove the President…

Neil De Beer (12:27.018)

…it will be a shock and a shockwave in firstly taking the cluster, and we used to call it the cluster F in the army, going through that and then having to stabilise an economy that's at the break already. 

I'm not biased. I stand here in the middle. I am not in Parliament. But what I will tell you was we can't continue with this line being drawn and moved in the sand. It starting to be no, it is a circus.

Chris Steyn (13:02.319)

The factions in the African National Congress are obviously deepening now, Neil. Which one do you think is the strongest?

Neil De Beer (13:11.306)

I think commercially, and that still has the equity to fight, is the Cyril faction. They are that moderate middle trying to keep business, democracy, capitalism on the go. The RET faction is strong in the sense of their message. 

So if you look at the faction in the ANC, where you look at your Fikiles, you look at your Paul Mashatiles. You look at that and then you say to yourself, these are the two, the RET, the progressive, and then the capitalist. And it's tearing at the groin at the moment.

Chris Steyn (14:00.995)

Now another assassination, possibly linked to two billion missing, that of the Ekhurhuleni Audit chief.

Neil De Beer (14:14.86)

They shot the leader of the forensic team that is part of a local government division. Put that in our head. I've said this and say it again. Colombia. Colombia. They are assassinating them without doubt. No one is safe in this country anymore. The whistleblowers don't want to blow because the whistleblower, the blower needs that whistle and it's always the whistle that cuts that person off. So whistleblowers aren’t coming out. And if you continue to kill state objective, we will become that not banana republic, but a fruit salad of absolute toss. And that's what we are seeing. Murder by power.

Chris Steyn (15:15.267)

Neil, talking about murder, we spoke about it last week, of Special Forces.

Neil De Beer (15:23.426)

Yeah, they appeared and they got bail. Bail. Some of them have to appear again. Chris, this is a novel. Surely this can't be real. You know, in other countries, you tell them this, they'll go, what movie? Where's that at? No, this is real life. We use one of the most specialised forces. I'll tell you that in the world. They are redeemed in the world as the best. They apparently and allegedly have been used as a certain hitsquad unit to take, kidnap and take people out. Chris, shocking that this is happening all around us and it is allegedly a fact. This is a new news. This is news that has been coming on and is now being verified.

Chris Steyn (16:32.035)

You know, I want to take you back to the Multi-Party Charter. Do you think if that had survived South Africa would be on a different trajectory. Now you drove that, you were so much part of that.

Neil De Beer (16:48.01)

Undoubtedly, we would have had a different country today, different policy, different attitude, different international regard, because I know the people that were there, they could fight.

But it's not South African politics, seemingly, that we were fighting on the proper manner. The ANC has an attitude with its gatherings, its giving of Kentucky, its giving of the T-shirt and the cap, and it wins those logistics every time. And until the DA and all of us don't get it that we've got to fight fire with fire. We will never get that power change in this country.

Chris Steyn (17:41.775)

So what's going to happen in the next elections if there are parties who buy votes and there are parties who don't think votes should be bought? 

Neil De Beer (17:52.706)

But they buy it in any case. They might not like it. I mean, the statements from Cyril. You know, funny, him and Paul are never in court. They think they above anybody. 

You know, there was a case in the days of Mandela, hear this, where SA. Rugby, I can still see it as clear as daylight, Louis Luyt, the aura and the man Louis Luyt, where he took the President of this Republic to court. And the people sat with Madiba at Shell House and they said, are you mad? You're going to court? You just came out of jail? You're the president? And yet the people wanted to... He said, I will go. I will go to court because if I do not, then how do we expect the other citizens to conduct themselves in the right manner? That's what he did, And he went; there was Mandela, in court. 

So I don't know. I don't know who the hell these other people are that think that they can't appear in court. They are not above or under the law and they should be taken as such. 

Scandal after scandal. Paul Mashatile, again, linked by, linked by, by, by, Lotto. This is not the first one that he gets linked by. And that's the problem. 

And if that is the thing that happens, it happens. 

I will take, for example, Gayton McKenzie. He is the current Minister of Sport and Education of Culture and his son buys a prolific soccer club. And the people say there's nothing wrong with it. It's his own money. Really? Go find and track that money. Not saying anything. But will the Minister of Sport have influence on his son's new acquisition? I'm sad to say yes and if he doesn't know it, I'm shocked. He does know it.

Neil De Beer (20:02.03)

And you know, Gayton's grown. Yeah, Gayton's grown on me. I told you that the one day. I met him. I, you know, he still owes me a coffee.  But at the end of the day, he's doing what he's doing and he's good at what he's doing. But there are a certain club of people that think because of … influence. I hope it's not the same as this. 

I will not say the same about Cyril Ramaphosa and Paul Mashatile. I will not withdraw. That I will have to keep intact. And you know, if you look at Gayton and what is happening, he has absolutely done well, but he's never seemed at the end of the day to turn on us and say to us anything else except that he's blatant. He wants power, and that's it. I wish the other parties would get up and say the same. That we are going to... Sorry.

Chris Steyn (20:59.417)

Be honest about it - and be honest about why they're staying.

Neil De Beer (21:06.422)

Yeah, but it's politics, so they can't be honest. So I think I'm the only one with you on a Sunday that really comes there. They've got too used to it. Luxury has fallen on lap, and too many promises have been made. So, Chris, no. We have to, as the people, ensure that we change the country; they’re not going to. All of them. They are not going to.

Chris Steyn (21:30.467)

I'm just reading a message here from a viewer. The ANC still thinks it has the moral authority to dictate to the nation. Was no one allowed to question? If you do, the race card comes out. You're anti-transformation. But isn't it more now a rule by immorality, Neil?

Neil De Beer (21:51.564)

That's dictatorship. We are currently serving in a pseudo undercover dictatorship. You you sit there and you think Verwoerd was erg, Castro was … bad. But when you see us, we are shadow painting democracy, yet at the back…

Neil De Beer (22:21.624)

…they are telling us still what to do even beyond the grave. You know, they are in ICU. The ANC does not understand that. They are in the ICU of this country's politics. hey won't get 40. They'll get less. And then the GNU's capacity will have to be renegotiated. 

But first, we get through the local government election, which is going to be blood and guts on the floor again. And who pays the price? You and I, the citizens of this country.

Chris Steyn (23:00.013)

Let's go abroad briefly to South African born billionaire Elon Musk starting his own political party.

Neil De Beer (23:09.368)

Yeah, I think Elon starts a thing a day and we don't even know about it. Robots and cars and fridges that talk and all that. The only thing I don't want him to invent is something that braais for you. I think that's the last line I'm willing to do. 

What a genius of a mind. Yet so, I would think, unstable, insecure. I get that feeling. He wants attention. He has the money to get attention. But when he's done with something, he kind of lets it go. Katjie. Muis. Dood. Verveeld.

So, Elon poking a red rod into the Republican and Democrats and saying HI, I’m going to start a new party and give it a go. It's not as easy as that in the U.S.

And I would say to Elon, well done on where you are and have been, but you've got to change now. Go back to Tesla, go back to putting people on Venus or Uranus, but some way you are better than having to be in politics. My opinion.

Chris Steyn (24:30.617)

Neil, thank you very much for coming on the show today. I know you've had a really hard week and I also know that our viewers will really appreciate you being here today. Thank you. That was Neil De Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement on the Sunday Show with me, Chris Steyn. Thank you, Neil.

Neil De Beer (24:54.946)

A huge pleasure, Chris, to everyone who wakes up with us and goes to bed with us. It is always a privilege to work with you, Chris, and we have our challenges, but one thing we are not going to stop is give our oath that if we are alive on a Sunday, we will be here with the truth. God bless everybody.

Chris Steyn (25:16.601)

Thank you, Neil. Have a good rest. Bye.