The Sunday Show: Neil de Beer on Paul “Slimy” Mashatile, Kill the Boer – and SA being “moer toe”…

In the latest Sunday Show with Neil de Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement (UIM), speaks about Budget negotiations threatening the Government of National Unity (GNU) as Deputy President Paul "Slimy" Mashatile is rumoured to be leading talks with the Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF) for support that would see the Democratic Alliance (DA) left out in the cold. De Beer laments everything in South South Africa that is "moer toe", including SOEs, municipalities and the SANDF. He talks about the US' latest strike against South Africa, and reveals how he would fix the SANDF; but says SOEs, 'which there is no more saving of", should be sold off to the private sector. Meanwhile, he counts on next year's municipal elections to produce new leadership to save bankrupt, non-performing municipalities as the ANC appears incapable of self-correcting. "They have shown themselves not capable and they have had 30 years of trying to be capable and they have absolutely not performed… if the saving of the ANC in the short term has now been the destruction of the country in the long term…That is another debate to be had." He also gives his take on the Constitutional Court's decision not to hear AfriForum's appeal that chanting "Kill the Boer" is not hate speech – and calls on South Africans to be more sensitive on what is socially acceptable..Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox at 5:30am weekdays. Register here..Support South Africa's bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here..If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here..Watch here.Listen here.Edited transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___.Chris Steyn (00:05)Welcome to The Sunday Show with Neil de Beer, politician and political commentator. Neil, you've had a very interesting week. You were almost not here..Neil de Beer (00:21)Chris, very good morning. So great—I look forward to our Sunday rant and public display of information. Yeah, as a councillor of the United Independent Movement, my political party, which I lead, I had a very maddening week. I was nearly thrown out of council because I decided to use my favourite word, moer, in a discussion with the ANC rabble. When I said that all matters of policing and systems have collapsed, they told me I didn't make it to Parliament and that I'm a sell-out..Number one, I said the reason I didn't make it to Parliament was because I decided to come back and moer them more. And let me tell you, Chris, daar ran the jackals amongst the foxes, the hounds and the chickens. Then I was asked to withdraw the word moer, to which I said to the very honourable speaker: no—because moer is coffee. I actually only told the ANC I'm coming to make them coffee. So I decided not to withdraw. I was given the option, but I decided to stay. I will stick to my heritage of moer, donnerweer en bliksemstraal..So yeah, what an epic scenario. But someone, at some point, Chris, has to stand up and push back and not be told who you are, what you are, and what you can say. Especially, Chris, when the ANC leader in the City of Cape Town Caucus that very morning walked over to the DA. So I think they were just a little bit sore—and I added to the scratch by taking their plaster off. We'll continue doing so, but here I am. I don't think here I can be kicked out or asked to leave. I hope..Chris Steyn (02:28)Not by me. Well, let's go to South Africa's latest strike from the US..Neil de Beer (02:38)Yeah, Chris, another shammy to the face, nog 'n braaipan teen die kop. You know that morning when you're dazed after a good Olofberg evening, and you wake up to make your coffee and bump your pinky toe? This is worse—except maybe when your mother-in-law asks you not to lean your arms on the table. Your moer!.America just got up and said they would ask our military attaché to now also leave the United States. Chris, I don't know who's left. Maybe the domestic worker and the door opener will also be asked to leave..Not only have they asked the military attaché of South Africa to leave the country, but they have also—according to an alleged internal document from last week—decided to surrender all military support economically and are now refusing to allow South Africa to participate in any military organisational structures or major military maneuvers. Shocking—because it's another blow to us on a different level..Chris Steyn (04:07)Well, while we're on the military, maybe they felt that the attaché doesn't really have a job considering the state of the South African National Defence Force. Neil, we've spoken so often about the state of the Army and the Navy, and now we're on the Air Force, where it has emerged that only six operational aircraft remain..Neil de Beer (04:28)Blunder on blunder, Chris. And to sit back and understand that this Air Force is now running at a total of 8% operational mobility. The fact that we've got between six and sixteen operational aircraft is one thing, but what no one told us is: they might be operational, Chris, but now we hear they don't have enough technicians to keep them in the air..So now, not only—as per last year—did I tell you that if Mozambique attacks us with a floundering canoe, our Navy would need to surrender, it now seems that if Lesotho decides to attack us with any form of floundering aircraft—as small as a burgundy rose on your lapel—we're also going to get moered here..So I don't know, Chris. We now hear also from our most esteemed Vice President Paul Mashatile that in no way is our withdrawal from the DRC to be seen as a loss. In no way must our removal of troops from the DRC be seen as the other side having a victory. They've now decided to "give diplomacy a chance." What utter rubbish. It is defeat. They would not have withdrawn if we hadn't suffered the sad loss of our sons and daughters. And if the outcry—including this programme—hadn't been so harsh, demanding: "What the hell are we doing there in the first place?".To make it even more shocking, Mr. Mashatile says—in the same breath—that he wishes to recognise that the SANDF needs more money so it can properly equip itself. Maar is jy ou mal! That's like saying we're going to ice a cake with a cherry on top, but you've already run out of icing and cherries..Read more: Neil de Beer on Mbalula, Morero, Mashatile, MK's first Western Cape win, the Battle for the Budget – and the general's disappearing wings….Neil de Beer (06:49)I don't understand the levels, sometimes, Chris, of IQ..And therefore, if you asked me, "Neil, are we currently in business rescue in our Defence Force?" I'd say we're past it. Definite and drastic decisions need to be made..And Chris, it's not about money. You can add another five billion. It is about the following five points:.If you handed me the SANDF tomorrow, I would do the following immediately:.I would do a national asset register of every asset—every movable asset and all personnel—in this country with immediate effect.I would recall—yes, I would—every capable person that served in the SANDF in the past 25 to 30 years with the capability to come back in on a defence contract and fix what we've got. They're out there.I would immediately ensure that all operational capabilities of the SANDF outside the borders of the Republic are cancelled and withdrawn, and I would bring back….Neil de Beer (08:14)…those members to facilitate an immediate restructuring of the SANDF..I would immediately re-invoke the capabilities of Armscor and Denel. And if the people who were the original think tanks and innovators of armament are still available, I would call them back.I would ensure that every arm of the SANDF has a redeployment of people who are suitable and capable of being there..Those five steps, Chris, are not being done. And that is what I would institute as the Minister of Defence..Chris Steyn (08:50)Meanwhile, Neil, the budget—or non-budget—seems to have driven the Government of National Unity to the brink of collapse. The African National Congress is not prepared to compromise on legislation to get the DA's support, and it's looking to other parties..Neil de Beer (09:15)Well, Chris, more than that—they are releasing the Kraken. They are, again, being the bloody devious ANC that they have mutated into. Chris, every Sunday it seems we are taking out the wooden spoon and slashing them on their backside. It's not our intention to always come here on a Sunday and break down the system. Maar wragtig—if your milk tart collapses in the middle and becomes a soufflé, I can't sit there and brag about your milk tart. Dit is gemors. Then it's gemors..We have to look at this ANC and say it is becoming desperate. It doesn't want to work with the DA. It doesn't want to work with its partners. It wants to lead them. There's a big difference between being a partner, a colleague, and standing side by side—or getting up and continually saying, "I am the dictator. I am the leader.".Hey! You didn't get the votes. You lost the majority. Laat dit tog bleddie insink soos vars reën op die Kalahari grond. And if you can't count from 40% to 51%, dan is jy duidelik moer toe..You cannot sit as the ANC and demand anything. You lost this country's majority support..Neil de Beer (11:35)…with this ideology that they're still in charge. You're not in charge. So I'm saying, if they continue with this "we're going to do this, we're going to do that" attitude, here's the sneaky little thing they're doing, Chris—they're now playing bumper cars. Remember in the old days at the circus, with those bumper cars? All five of us would gang up on one person..Neil de Beer (12:03)This is now like bumping, bumping, bumping—and they're noticing that the DA and the Freedom Front, hulle het groter bumper cars. So sneaky, sneaky—they're now trying to either tell the guy in charge of electricity to shut it down sodat almal nou moer toe is, or—no, no—they're talking to other people, Chris..Now, who are the "other" people? Well, there are only two possibilities. One is the EFF, and the other is MK. The EFF currently has 9.8%, and the MK Party, 14.52%. Chris, what do they need to pass the budget? With their 40%, if they strike a deal with MK, they've got a majority. Because hey, Paul, Cyril—let me help you—40 plus 14 is 54. Then they don't need the DA. They don't need anybody..And Chris, this is what we've been warning about. This is what we've been saying. The ANC keeps saying: "If you don't agree with us, we'll do X.".And here's the rumour—allegedly. Guess who's in charge of the discussions currently between the ANC and the EFF? Drum roll….Neil de Beer (14:08)…our old friend again, Paul "Slimy" Mashatile..Chris Steyn (14:19)Let that sink in. We'll take a second of silence there..Over to the water crisis, Neil. President Cyril Ramaphosa says a new SOE for water will be operational next year. Now, with other SOEs already in crisis, what are the chances that this is going to make a difference?.Neil de Beer (14:46)None. Absolutely none. Chris, last week we had the Water Indaba in this country. Can you imagine—all of us in government got together to talk about the water crisis. Now, Chris, the President opens this almighty H2O meeting. And what does he say? "We are facing a water crisis." Then he says, "It is imperative that we get together and start…" Here we go. Are you ready, Chris? Not solutions. Not building dams. Not maintaining infrastructure..Guess again who gave the biggest speech on Friday? That's right, Chris. Enter the room: Paul "Slimy" Mashatile again. Hierdie ou donner in elke meeting. This guy has more portfolio meetings than Father Christmas has stockings to fill. He's on everything—power, water, army, defence, DRC, police, intel….Yes, the guy is busy. So, Chris, Paul says—and we must unfortunately declare—that the 2030 Water Reconstruction Plan will not meet its targets. So this country, with abundant water resources—the Umzimvubu River, the Orange River, deals with Lesotho—all of that now means nothing..Neil de Beer (17:02)They are now telling us that the average citizen might not have sufficient access to drinkable and usable water..And the answer, Chris—the solution to everything? A National Water Task Team. An NWTT. Now Chris, the NWTT will sit with the National Electricity Task Team, which will combine with the Defence Force Task Team, which will talk to the Police Task Team. And then the Police TT will talk to the Infrastructure TT. And then the NFI TT, the NPITT, the WITT and the SITT will all sit and suck on the behind TT—because not one of them will get anything done..Except sit and say, "Where's the cow for the next TT?".So Chris, we are TT-ing ourselves into moertoe. And at the end of the day, the only people who benefit are those who sit on these TTs asking, "Where's the lunch?" And then they get told the National Lunch TT is also moer toe..Chris, then we're going to sit back and ask: what happened? So come now, South Africa. These kings are naked. And the only thing we can do, Chris, is sit back and go: what's next? It's shocking. It's absolutely terrible..And I'm sorry, again, I'll say it: if this GNU collapses and it's not held accountable to defend us, then the next subject we need to tackle, Chris, is the total disintegration of municipalities..Neil de Beer (17:02)They are now telling us that the average citizen might not have sufficient access to drinkable and usable water..And the answer, Chris—the solution to everything? A National Water Task Team. An NWTT. Now Chris, the NWTT will sit with the National Electricity Task Team, which will combine with the Defence Force Task Team, which will talk to the Police Task Team. And then the Police TT will talk to the Infrastructure TT. And then the NFI TT, the NPITT, the WITT and the SITT will all sit and suck on the behind TT—because not one of them will get anything done..Except sit and say, "Where's the cow for the next TT?".So Chris, we are TT-ing ourselves into moertoe. And at the end of the day, the only people who benefit are those who sit on these TTs asking, "Where's the lunch?" And then they get told the National Lunch TT is also moer toe..Chris, then we're going to sit back and ask: what happened? So come now, South Africa. These kings are naked. And the only thing we can do, Chris, is sit back and go: what's next? It's shocking. It's absolutely terrible..And I'm sorry, again, I'll say it: if this GNU collapses and it's not held accountable to defend us, then the next subject we need to tackle, Chris, is the total disintegration of municipalities..Chris Steyn (18:59)I was just going to ask you, Neil, let's look at the funding dynamics of our crumbling municipalities and the role of Treasury having to come to the rescue..Read more: BNC#7: uMngeni Mayor Chris Pappas – Lessons in good governance, leadership and service delivery.Neil de Beer (19:14)Well, it's over, Chris. I'm sorry. When you start looking at the scale—more than 270 municipalities in this country—the fact is they're not getting clean audits. Under correction—I say correction, because someone will write to correct me, which I welcome—but more than 80% of municipalities in this country are bankrupt. They have no income, no structural taxpayers..The people paying rates and taxes are about to revolt by saying, "We're not getting what we're paying for." There is an absolute implosion..If you saw the circus this week—again, Chris—can you imagine COJ, City of Johannesburg, remember that other TT? The Johannesburg National TT has now declared itself in recess. The municipality that needs the most help in this country—which is set to host the G20—and I think, one by one, it's going to become the G19, G18, G17, G16… want hulle gaan sê: not 'n donder gaan ons soentoe. And then it declares itself in recess, taking a bit of a break..So what are we finding? Look at what happened in eThekwini. Chris, in the middle of the meeting where they needed to pass the budget, the ANC and the EFF had a fight—and the sitting collapsed..So, on an ongoing basis, municipalities—which are the cornerstone—your bread and butter, Chris….Neil de Beer (21:07)…that's your home, your neighbourhood, your block, your town. That's where you must focus 80% of your attention. Your lawns must be cut, rubbish collected, sewage systems must work, amenities upgraded, and water and electricity supplied. Now imagine—80% of that in this country is non-serviceable..So where are we going to end up, Chris? Where are we going to make the change? Because currently, not only do we have national collapse of entities and SOEs—there is no saving them. The best we can do is sell them. The best we can do is go to privatisation and create a market economy—where there is at least competition and delivery..Until we change the oversight, capability, funding, and structuring of municipalities, we are dead in the water. And that is why, Chris, next year in the municipal elections, we pray for change. We need a new entity, a revival, new leadership—so we can save the bread-and-butter institution: the municipality. And I must tell you, Chris, it looks like doom and gloom..Chris Steyn (22:27)You don't think the African National Congress can ever self-correct?.Neil de Beer (22:37)I don't think they think. So even thinking about whether the ANC can do it—there's already a lapse. And that's a debate I'm willing to have for an hour. They are not capable. They have proven themselves incapable. They've had 30 years to show capability—and they have absolutely not performed..And this is the problem, Chris—even when we thought we bloody fired them, even when we thought we'd got them out of power—they're still in power..And we can have another debate on a Sunday Show: has saving the ANC in the short term now resulted in the long-term destruction of the country? That's a whole other discussion..Chris Steyn (23:24)Another debate: chanting "Kill the Boer" is not hate speech. The Constitutional Court has had the final say, but AfriForum is going to take this to international forums. Neil?.Neil de Beer (23:41)You know, Chris, one of the most joyous things about me—one—is that through my veins where runneth my blood, there is not a single particle of racism..In this country, Chris, if you can be a truly non-racial human being, it's probably worth an Olympic gold medal. Because in this country, it's the most important thing I can profess. I might be a fool, an idiot, ignorant or dumb—but I am not a racist. I cannot at any point in my life look at colour—because I fought against it with everything I had. Yes, Chris, I lost a lot. Yes, I made enemies on both sides. But I will never tolerate anyone in front of me being racist—left or right..So when I speak, people know: I don't have a black or white perspective. I have a human being perspective. And I'm proud of that..Chris, it's not about the song..I had a random debate on X, formerly Twitter, yesterday. I wrote to Elon Musk and said, "Elon, can you introduce a new button on X? I'll pay $12." It blew up. The button should do three things:.Test your bloody IQ.Auto-block you if you become a racist.Auto-block you if you can't maintain a reasonable attitude in a debate..Can you imagine paying for a platform like that?.Neil de Beer (25:49)Chris, it's not about "Kill the Boer, Kill the Farmer.".This is what it's actually about: very few people can explain the origin or philosophy of the song. One person who did try to explain it—go Google it—was Thabo Mbeki. There's a famous clip where he outlines where it came from, what the philosophy was, and how it fits into modern society..Chris, here's my view: just because something is legal doesn't mean it's acceptable. Let me say that again: just because something is not illegal doesn't mean it is acceptable in society..Chris, the old South African flag is not banned by law. Singing "Die Stem" is not banned by law..Neil de Beer (27:40)Eating a syrupy, scrumptious, twisted koeksister with condensed milk coffee is not banned by law—but it's still acceptable to many white South Africans..It must be said: you don't take that old flag and wave it in public. Remember that moment at Loftus Versfeld? A young man walked into a Currie Cup final, pulled out the old flag—and people of the same race told him to put it away. Because it's socially unacceptable..Those of us with a decent IQ—and who don't let EQ override IQ—know that just because something is technically legal doesn't mean it should be shoved in people's faces..Neil de Beer (28:57)Here's the point, Chris—and I know we're stretching the programme, but it's important:.You must first decide if the person you're speaking to is reasonable. The law is based on two premises:.The test of the reasonable person.Audi alteram partem—listen to the other side..This is the bastion of law: reasonability, and listening to the other side..So let's apply that to this song. Forget the history for a moment—we accept it has historical roots. Fine. I'm reasonable—I've got a bloody IQ. I get that..But here's the test: if by singing that song, and farmers are being murdered, is that reasonable? No. It fails the test. It is not reasonable to sing a song—even if legal—when it incites or relates to real-world tragedy. It's not reasonable, Chris..Remember: I'm not a racist. This is an IQ discussion..And number two: Audi alteram partem..Neil de Beer (30:37)Have we truly listened to the other side? Not organisations, not institutions, not parties—they can gaan vlieg. I'm talking about families who have lost loved ones to farm murders..Only if we put them all in a massive hall—because we'd need more than a town hall—only then, after we have listened to them, can we say we've truly exercised audi alteram partem..Chris, I'll say this: Julius Malema—I know him. The man you see publicly and the man behind closed doors are not the same. We need a national dialogue with him. No law. No court. No cameras. Sit down and say: "Yes, it's legal. But is it acceptable? And can we fix it?".Because Chris, going to court, or the ICJ—or bloody Mars—is not going to change the minds of the rabble who can't think reasonably..Neil de Beer (32:22)Here's what saddens me the most: the apex court of this country—the Constitutional Court—is one of the pillars of our democracy..And I was there. I was there in the early days with Judge Albie Sachs and others as they discussed what would become the Constitution. I sat in the corner with a little briefcase. I was an attaché. I still don't know what I was attached to—but my donner, I was there..And the key idea was that every law—past, present, or future—should be tested in that court. Because the Constitution is the supreme law. You should be able to test anything in the Constitutional Court..Neil de Beer (33:26)And we failed this past week. One of the most divisive issues in our society—a song—went through all the stages: court, Supreme Court, Appeals Court. Then finally, we looked to the Constitutional Court..And what did they do? They issued a one-pager saying: "Leave to appeal is denied.".Neil de Beer (35:28)In my opinion—though I'm no legal expert—that was justice denied. Not just for AfriForum. Not just for the people I speak the language of. Not just for the Boere who feel intimidated. But also for the EFF. Because we all lost the opportunity for finality..And so, Chris, I say again: you cannot debate a reasonable matter with an unreasonable person. You might as well sit down with a cup of coffee and explain algebra to a cactus in the Karoo—you'll get the same response..So I believe it was a missed opportunity. And as a society, we need to become more sensitive to one another..The end..Chris Steyn (36:47)Indeed. Thank you, Neil. Just before I say goodbye—a heads-up to our viewers. Neil and I won't be on air next Sunday with our Sunday Show, but we will be back the Sunday after that..Thank you. That was Neil de Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement, speaking to BizNews on The Sunday Show with Chris Steyn..Read also.Malema's "Kill the boer" chant sparks global backlashBNC#7: Moeletsi Mbeki – Reject nationalism, scrap "parasitic" BEE, cut bloated public service in half to rescue SA from ANC-dug "hole"Corruption-busting lawyers watch their lives implode as they head to the dock

The Sunday Show: Neil de Beer on Paul “Slimy” Mashatile, Kill the Boer – and SA being “moer toe”…

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