The Sunday Show - Renaldo Gouws: “Bleeding” ANC on the brink and Afrikaners under siege…

In the latest Sunday Show, Chris Steyn hosts Renaldo Gouws, former Parliamentarian, podcaster and industrial psychologist. He speaks about the litany of woes besetting the once mighty African National Congress (ANC) that is now “bleeding” support: the breaking of ranks by Senzo Mchunu, the Police Minister on special leave, and long-time Jacob Zuma ally Malusi Gigaba. He warns that the raging factional battles in the party could force out President Cyril Ramaphosa if a secret ballot is allowed in the upcoming Vote of No Confidence. Gouws questions the “attempted hijacking” narrative around the attack on Police Portfolio Committee Chair Ian Cameron, as well as the political relevance of Deputy Defence Minister Bantu Holomisa who threw an on-air tantrum last week. Gouws further dissects the “double standards” at the heart of the saga of Kleinfontein, the Whites-only settlement threatened with demolition by the City of Tshwane. He also comments on his own Press Ombudsman victory against News24..Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox at 5:30am weekdays. Register here.Support South Africa’s bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here.If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here..Watch here.Listen here.Edited transcript of the interview.Chris Steyn (00:02.167)Welcome to another Sunday Show with me, Chris Steyn. Unfortunately, Neil De Beer cannot be with us today. However, Renaldo Gous, former Parliamentarian, podcaster and industrial psychologist is back with us by viewer demand. Welcome, Renaldo.Renaldo Gouws (00:22.114)Hi Chris, thank you so much for having me and once again just thoughts and prayers going out to Neil de Beer. I know that it's probably a difficult time for everyone at the moment so my thoughts and prayers are with him. And then also just thank you for the BizNews family for welcoming me with open arms. It's greatly appreciated and I'll do my best to do what Neil does best and I think I wore a cap today and his honoyr just says Tsek on it. So let's see how that goes.Chris Steyn (00:51.223)Thank you. Let us start with the Democratic Alliance polling indicating that the African National Congress will not get 20 % in Joburg if the voters went to the poll today.Renaldo Gouws (01:08.224)Now, I had a look at the the DA polling, you know, and it's weird because any time I speak on the DA, some people will say that I'm a bitter Ex. And I understand that and I take that on. But, you know, I'll just stick to the facts and the other people can stick to their opinions. The biggest problem that I have with this internal polling is that firstly, they are assuming that there's a hundred percent voter turnout, meaning every single person that they are phoning that is a registered voter, according to them, when the person answers, they assume that that person will vote now.Chris, when last have South Africa had 100 % voter turnout? Never, never. I don't even think anywhere in the world that has actually happened. So I think that is the first problem with this internal poll. I think it's exciting to create hype, but remember, this is what political parties do, is to create a narrative, to create hype. I don't think that the poll is accurate to that extent. I think that the ANC is definitely bleeding. But once again, we are in one of those situations where, you know, if the ANC loses and the MK rises, we still have the same problem. We still have the same problem of Communism. Now, since 1994, what you have seen is if you remove the parties and you just focus on ideology, you can see that Communism and Socialism has always stuck at about 65, 64, 67 percent. So I get that the ANC is under a lot of pressure, but the bigger issue that we still have…Renaldo Gouws (03:25.27)…of course, is the whole narrative of Communism and Socialism and the policies that these political parties want to enforce on us. So, another thing that I've got here is that we must remember that the polling is always very good for opposition parties until the month or a month and a half before an election, because then that is what we call in the political space, the big squeeze. That is when the millions of rands come out for campaigning. That is when you see, you know, a Member ofPparliament hugging a child and kissing them on their forehead. So the big squeeze always happens a month before, a month and a half before an election. So I would look at this poll and, you know, maybe say, that looks interesting. But I wouldn't give it too much credence at the moment because we are firstly so far out. Secondly, it's a DA poll. So obviously it's going to create a narrative. And then lastly, the big squeeze is where things happen.Chris Steyn (04:28.419)Well, residents in Joburg, or long suffering residents in Joburg, are very happy with this poll result. Here is a message from somebody who was selling up in Joburg and moving down to the Cape saying: Now that the rot has surfaced in a place like Joburg, even the most obtuse voter can see the correlation between ANC rule and decay. And Cape Town proves that the DA isn't bringing back Apartheid. So I think many Joburgers are hoping that that poll proves to be accurate. Even the Police Minister who is on special leave has warned that the African National Congress is on collapse. Renaldo just the other day, he was being touted as the next or possible next President of the African National Congress and the country. Do you think he's decided that he's no longer in the running?Renaldo Gouws (05:28.683)It's very interesting because remember last week when I spoke about factional battles in the ANC? Well, this is clearly what is happening here. So if we analyse what is taking place, both Senzo Mchunu and Malusi Gigaba, as we all know, is in a bit of a pickle at the moment within the ANC, considering that they've spoken out against what is happening within the ANC. Now…We know that Gigaba was a former NEC member and he was a big supporter of Jacob Zuma. He got his ministerial positions under Jacob Zuma….Fortunately for us, Cyril Ramaphosa didn't give him those ministerial posts. So this is a factional battle. They are there to do a lot of damage internally to Cyril Ramaphosa, knowing that they'll also impact on the ANC, but the problem for a lot of people within the ANC at the moment is a Cyril Ramaphosa because either he's not radical enough or he's too radical with the policies that he wants to implement. Like I said, Gigaba was a staunch Zuma supporter…he had various ministerial roles. And then if we look at Senzo Mchunu, he is not really protected by Cyril Ramaphosa anymore. And I think the reason for that is because Cyril Ramaphosa saw what threat…because I believe that Cyril already has the person that's going to follow him up in his mind and he's already trying to campaign in that way for that individual, but it's definitely not Senzo Mchunu. I also think that if you look at how all of these things are coming together for Senzo Mchunu to be disciplined now, and of course the whole situation that the Police Minister is involved in with the claims made against him, we can see that there's a lot of movement within the ANC.So it's great for South Africa because whenever the ANC internally is in turmoil, that means they've got less time to steal from South Africans. So they at least to this point haven't really learned to multi-task. So as long as there's some controversies in the ANC then that keeps them busy and that keeps the money or their hands away from the money to a large extent.Chris Steyn (07:47.331)Well, the deputy Defense Minister, General Bantu Holomisa, lost his cool on air in recent days. Did you listen to that?Renaldo Gouws (07:59.852)Yeah, I listened to the highlights and I find it quite comical, know, that Bantu Holomisa has obviously got a very short fuse - and all you need to do is just take him on personally. And it's strange because you don't really see a politician with such a thin skin. But this has happened time and time again. I mean, I think I go back to 2018 when he was on television and then he said, you give a poor man a fish and you feed him for a day and you teach him to fish, you give him... I mean, so those are the wise words from Bantu Holomisa. But yeah, look, realistically though, if you look at Bantu Holmisa and his relevance, I would say, we all know that he was kicked out of the ANC in 1996 because he was the corruption buster. And for a long term, people believed he was going to be the change that we needed to see in this country. But unfortunately, it just turned into a little whimper because in ’99, when the UDM was standing, while the political party was contesting in the elections, they got 550,000 votes. And then in the last national election, they only managed to get 78,000 votes. So…you know, questions need to be asked about Bantu Holomisa and his relevance in politics in South Africa, especially now in modern South Africa. He's also been the UDM leader now for 18 years. I mean, it's starting to smell like a dictatorship, you know. So and then, of course, just the, you know, the arrogance of members of Parliament. And this is something that that I noted. You know, yes, I was only in Parliament for three months, but you can pick up a lot in three months in Parliament. And the sheer arrogance of these members of Parliament, they go on to a radio show, you know, they asked to go on, meaning nobody is forcing them to be there. And then you get criticised because people are critical of what's happening in South Africa. And then to go on and tell people to Go to hell. I mean, this just shows the disconnect between the people on the ground, the voters, the people of South Africa, and then the members of Parliament and the politicians.Renaldo Gouws (10:21.547)And this is one thing that is very glaringly obvious in South Africa. Politicians are treated like celebrities in this country because South Africa has got a very political-focused past, Apartheid and the stalwarts that came through. I mean, most famous person in South Africa is a politician, Nelson Mandela. So ultimately we get to that point where you get this attention. And then you start thinking, wait, maybe I am that important. And I think it's time that South Africans, you know, be a lot more critical when they speak to their members of Parliament and politicians, whether it's a councillor, a member of provincial legislature, a member of Parliament, doesn't matter. The end of the day. And this is something that I really dislike hearing when I was a politician. But it rings true. My tax money pays your salary. That is what you need to tell the politician every single time they give you a little bit of attitude. Want hulle moet gaan k.… Hulle moet hulle werk doen. That’s what they have to do.Chris Steyn (11:24.951)Meanwhile, politician and Chair of Parliament's Portfolio Committee on Police had to shoot his way out of a violent attack last week to save his life and those of two other MPs. Speaking of Ian Cameron, of course.Renaldo Gouws (11:43.928)So yes, when I heard that, I immediately reached out to Ian to ask if he was doing all right. And then at least I heard that everything was fine. There were two other DA MPs also in that vehicle, Lisa Schickerling, always get that surname wrong. And then Nicholas Gotsell. So I hope that they recover speedily. At least it doesn't look like there were any...lasting issues there. I know that the one individual was hospitalised.But yeah this is a clear indication of you know what every day South Africans are going through and I note that you know a lot of people in the comments said why are the MPs getting such special treatments by this being announced and I understand that frustration, but remember that these individuals were there to go and do a job they were there to go and ask the difficult questions that the public wanted answered. So I do understand the frustration of the public, but you also have to understand that they are there to do a job. And I don't think that we should wish ill on anybody. The realities of South Africa is there for everybody to see. And I think we all know it. So let's not go off to, you know, the politicians that are actually doing their job and trying to get to the bottom of it. Now, the question about this is whether or not, you know, this was just a normal accident or whether there was something more sinister involved now. If you look at the dynamics of politics in South Africa, I would say there is definitely something that could be there because from my understanding, was also the traffic was packed. You couldn't move backwards, forwards, left or right. So if this was a hijacking attempt, then I think that those hijackers are the biggest idiots in South Africa because yes, let's say they got access to the car, then what? They'll sit in the car and wave at Ian Cameron.Which by the way, Ian Cameron is definitely the new Rambo of South Africa. Moenie k… soek met daai man nie because you're going to definitely get some lead in you. But no, I think the question that people need to ask here is, did the entire committee attend that oversight? And if they did, then you need to ask yourself, would it be possible that maybe a message could have been sent to somebody? So I don't want to...Renaldo Gouws (14:03.169)…create conspiracy theories, but I think it's just too convenient that three DA MPs are in a car together and that is the only vehicle that is attacked out of the entire committee that went there. So definitely something to look at - and I definitely think that Ian Cameron needs to get some security. We need to protect him, you know, regardless of whether you are DA, EFF, ANC, MK, we all need to realise that Ian Cameron is doing a great job. And we need to protect the individuals that are willing to work for their salary in Parliament.Chris Steyn (14:36.449)Meanwhile, racial tensions are rising again in Tshwane, where the City Council is threatening to demolish the Whites-only settlement of Kleinfontein. Have you been keeping up with the debate?Renaldo Gouws (14:53.931)Yeah, unfortunately, it's something that the media just doesn't want to let go. And, you know, it's also things that some politicians don't want to let go. But these politicians, you know, have got a very short memory, because let me just read something to you that I've actually written down with regards to this. So there's this trust that has two point nine million hectares of land that is under managed by the Zulu King and there are 5.2 million people that live on that land. They didn't pay a cent for that land. And in actual fact, they get paid 30 million Rand in operational costs every year for that parcel of land. Now, Chris, do you know what land I'm talking about? Ingonyama Trust. So let me ask this question. We've got the Ingonyama rust that is there to preserve Zulu culture and Zulu tradition.Now we've got Kleinfontein that was bought I believe in 92, 93. It's a privately owned parcel of land. There's 650 houses that are built there and it houses Afrikaners. Now please tell me why is there such an obsession with this small little piece of land in Tshwane that houses Afrikaners and is there, it's a cultural village to look after Afrikaans and the culture. And that is such a big issue. They don't harm anybody. They don't get a cent in taxpayers' money. They don't get a cent in grant money. It's all money that is owned by the trust or whomever it is. But yet the EFF and MK and the ANC are so obsessed with this little parcel of land. It's, once again, Orania, it's the smallest little town in the middle of nowhere that everybody knows about. And it's the same with Kleinfontein.How many informal settlements do people in Tshwane have to drive past in order to get to Kleinfontein? Now, the irony is that Kleinfontein is on private property, but the informal settlements are in municipal land and services have to be rendered to these informal settlements. So all of these hundreds of them aren't issues, but the one that is the issue is Kleinfontein. At what point are we just going to call out the obvious that this is a pure and simple attack…Renaldo Gouws (17:18.153)…on Afrikaner culture, as simple as that. Because you can have millions of rands that are given to the Ingonyama Trust and a massive, what was it, 2.9 million hectares of land to preserve Zulu culture. But the moment Afrikaners want to preserve their culture, then it's racist; then it's, you know, you're trying to exclude people. It is absolutely absurd. And I think it's time that...we as South Africans, irrespective whether you are black, white, Coloured or Indian, whether you're Afrikaans, English, Zulu, Xhosa, Venda, Sotho, what you need to do is call out this double standard when it comes to preserving your culture. The Constitution gives us the right to do this. And if this was against the Constitution, I promise you that Kleinfontein would not have existed for as long as it has. The same with Orania.So we need to see this for what it is. This is an attack on culture. This is an attack on Afrikaans. And once again, as we have seen with policies in this country, 146 race-based laws, more race laws now than during the height of Apartheid. But yet Afrikaners is the problem. White people are the problem. At some point, we just need to call out this bullshit and say enough is enough. Apply the standards equally. If you want to get rid of Kleinfontein, then let's start having a conversation about the Ingonyama Trust and perhaps look at reducing the 2.9 million hectares and let them actually pay for the land. Then we can have that discussion. Up until that time, sit down and shut up. That's my take.Chris Steyn (18:57.687)Renaldo, lastly, let's go to your Press Ombudsman victory last week.Renaldo Gouws (19:02.701)Yeah, no listen, Adriaan Basson, ek is baie jammer. Ek is so jammer. You know, because I'll briefly tell you the story. This was, so the background to the story is Adriaan Basson wrote an opinion piece to Elon Musk. You know, like those Dear John letters. It's like Dear Elon Musk. And then it, he made some wild allegations, which now of course has been proven wrong. The first oneis that Elon Musk gets his news from X alone and not from, you know, verifiable sources. The same with Donald Trump, because that is how Adriaan Basson framed that conversation was, Elon Musk and Donald Trump gets the information from X and nowhere else. So a lot of the things in that opinion piece has been disproven. But one thing that he said was he said that I called for the killing of black people.So then I had obviously a big issue with that because that was during the time where I was a punching bag and everybody could just say whatever they wanted about me because of me losing my seat in Parliament. So I took News24 and Adriaan Basson to the Press Ombudsman and what should have taken two to three weeks ended up being about a three month battle because after it was proven to Adriaan Basson and News24 that what they said was not correct.Instead of just doing the honourable thing and apologising, they blatantly refuse to apologise. They said that they will correct and put in the whole thing of what I said, but they would not apologise for getting it wrong, which clearly speaks to the problem that we have in this country when it comes to your average Joe on the street being accused of things. Let's use Jan Braai as an example. Poor Jan Braai was just minding his own business on Heritage Day, giving boerie rolls out to everybody and then News24 started making this a racial issue because that is what sells for online newspapers and online news publications is race-based stories because actual news doesn't get as much clicks as that. So Jan Braai was an accused, it was proven that what they said was wrong and then they apologised to him and they put him behind a paywall because that is exactly who and what News24 is.Renaldo Gouws (21:19.144)Same with me. Eventually the Press Ombudsman found that the obvious that we all knew that they breached the Press Code and they had to apologise to me. They also apologised to me, but they put it behind a paywall. So I don't really know how that is a public apology, because if we if we look at how News24 is giving such Black Friday discounts on their subscriptions, I don't think a lot of people saw that apology, but I definitely screenshot that it and posted it on X for everybody to see.So, you know, it's this one person in his office versus a multi-billion Rand company. So I will take that victory. But it speaks to a bigger issue that we as South Africans have, because you know, every like I spoke about last week about cancel culture, you all think that, you know, it's fine until it actually happens to you. And I feel that the mainstream media in South Africa don't fear the Press Ombudsman enough because they don't really have teeth. Just like the Auditor General. The Auditor General, up until three, four years ago, didn't really have a lot of bite until Parliament gave them the powers to have a little bit of teeth. So wanner hulle jou byt, dan gaan jy Eina. In the past, you couldn't do that. Now you can. And it's exactly the same what is needed with the Press Ombudsman. And I'll use myself as an example. Firstly, they hid the apology behind a paywall, meaning that it's not a public apology. Secondly, they were told that they should keep it on the front page of News24 for two days. After four hours, it was off the front page. There's no fear of consequence when it comes to mainstream media and the Press Ombudsman. And that is a negative thing for your average citizen because if mainstream media decides one day, in your most vulnerable moment, that you might have said or done something and the entire mainstream media comes for you and they falsely report, your recourse is just to get an apology. That's not enough. I think it's time that the Press Ombudsman be able to fine mainstream media when they get something wrong, a monetary fine or a sanction that is harsher than just a retraction or an apology. Up until that point, I think that the power dynamic is not fair when it comes to the public and mainstream media.Chris Steyn (23:41.379)Indeed. Any last thoughts on another week in South African politics, Renaldo?Renaldo Gouws (23:56.333)Ja, jy weet in South Afrikaanse politiek, elke dag is ’n interessante dag. Every day is exciting. But I think today, you know, let's just celebrate the Bok’s victory. Springbok did a great job. And then also Argentina did us a massive favour by beating New Zealand in Argentina. So, you know, last week it was so depressing. The Springboks didn't win. Ou Dricus, that wrestling match over there was more kissing match. But this weekend at least we've got something to celebrate.But I'm looking forward to for the next week or two I think Parliament goes back relatively soon and then we've got the Motion of No confidence against Cyril Ramaphosa and I think it's gonna be an interesting time because if we go along the route of a secret ballot, daar gaan fireworks wees, Chris, daar gaan groot fireworks wees because people are saying, well, you know, the DA don't have enough support. Remember what I told you about the factional battle in the ANC? If it is a secret ballot and only you and God know who you voted against or who you voted for, then we're going to see Cyril Ramaphoasa go and that's going to cause fireworks because then things are going to change drastically. I don't, whomever replaces Cyril Rampahosa I believe will not want the GNU.Because we have seen, even with Gigaba and Mchunu, vocal critics against the GNU government. So it's going to be interesting to see what plays out. People should just be aware of when Parliament goes back. I believe it's uMkhonto weSizwe that put the Motion of No Confidence against Cyril Ramaphosa. So that is going to be the entertainment that we need. Stock up on your popcorn. Stock up on your favourite cool drink - and maybe take a day off of work to enjoy the circus that's about to play out in Parliament for South Africa. But that's all from my side, Chris. Thank you very much.Chris Steyn (25:59.085)Thank you, Renaldo. That was Renaldo Gous with me, Chris Steyn, on the Sunday Show for BizNews. Thank you so much.

The Sunday Show - Renaldo Gouws: “Bleeding” ANC on the brink and Afrikaners under siege…

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