Zille: Next steps after VAT freeze; the stability of the GNU; and the ANC's 'tremendous' succession problem

In this candid and wide-ranging interview, Helen Zille, Chair of the DA Federal Council, speaks with Bronwyn Nielsen about South Africa’s current political landscape, the challenges of coalition governance, and the urgent need for pro-growth, pro-employment economic reform. Zille provides clarity on the DA’s stance regarding the VAT increase, the Expropriation Act, and the role of the private sector in driving development. She also reflects on the personal toll of political leadership, her career journey from journalism to politics, and the future of the Government of National Unity. A compelling insight into South Africa’s political crossroads and the DA’s strategic vision..Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox at 5:30am weekdays. Register here.Support South Africa’s bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here.If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here..Watch here.Listen here.Edited transcript of the interview .Bronwyn Nielsen (00:00.793)Helen, thank you so much for your time. It's been a long day, on the back of a couple of very, very hard months, and there's still lots of work to do. We have heard from Finance Minister Enoch Godongwana that the budget has now been tabled for the 21st of May. Perhaps you can talk us through the work that still has to be done in terms of achieving a revised budget that is pro-growth and pro-employment.Helen Zille (00:32.622)Well, there's a lot of work to do. The first thing is that the Finance Minister was banking on the VAT increase to bring in 75 billion rand, and of course, that won't come in now. And being able to do a proper spending review is challenging, it takes quite a while, and we have to look at programs and projects that aren't adding value.We've looked, for example, at the Sector Education and Training Authorities, but they're creatures of legislation, and so to undo things like that takes a long time and a lot of due process. So we're going to have to look at where we can trim the fat.And I know that Minister Godongwana is very committed to negotiating this budget. Part of the problem with the last budget was that he was not at all willing to negotiate. His mind seems to have changed on this totally, and we have had some good discussions so far as to how to proceed.Bronwyn Nielsen (01:35.729)There are those calling for the Finance Minister to resign. Do you think that's extreme?Helen Zille (01:43.727)Well, you know, the most important question in politics is always: compared to what? I know that Julius Malema once wanted Floyd Shivambu to be the Finance Minister. And one thing that Minister Godongwana does understand is the need for growth and jobs.That is extraordinarily important in our country because growth doesn't just happen. No one is compelled to invest in South Africa, the conditions have to be right for people to want to invest in South Africa. And Minister Godongwana understands that as well as anybody in the ANC, and that's a big plus in his favour.Bronwyn Nielsen (02:31.197)Helen, I've just been listening, today being the 30th of April, to the Secretary-General of the ANC, Fikile Mbalula, giving a press statement. And in that statement, he says that a fundamental error the DA committed was going to court on this matter. How do you feel about that?Helen Zille (02:53.966)Well, if it wasn't for our court case, you would have had a VAT increase on the 1st of May. It's as simple as that. And let me explain to Fikile Mbalula why.The Minister announced that there would be a VAT increase. It was included in the fiscal framework. In the portfolio on the 1st of April, the ANC, along with smaller parties such as Rise Mzansi, BOSA, ActionSA, etc., voted the fiscal framework through, using a completely incorrect process, but they voted it through.Then it went to Parliament, and ActionSA, Rise Mzansi, BOSA, and all the smaller parties, including the IFP and others, helped the ANC get the fiscal framework through Parliament. Now, once the fiscal framework is through Parliament, which happened on the 2nd of April, only two things can stop the VAT hike from going through:One is a court order, which is what we got, which is why there won't be a VAT hike. And the other would have been a new fiscal framework that went through the same process as the old one, which would have been impossible to get through by the 1st of May. So, if it wasn't for our court case, there would be a VAT increase on the 1st of May.Bronwyn Nielsen (04:17.831)Fikile Mbalula is very scathing about the DA. And many are saying that this is a marriage that cannot last, given the lack of respect the DA has for the ANC and vice versa. Is it a situation of muddling through in terms of remaining in the GNU, or do you think we are headed for an implosion?Helen Zille (04:48.696)Well, we will take it issue by issue. The only yardstick we have in the DA is: what is best for South Africa? And when we say "best for South Africa," we use only one yardstick to measure that: does it lead to economic growth and more jobs?We've got a terrible problem of poverty in South Africa. And poverty can't be solved by more social grants. It has to be solved by more jobs. And it's not governments that create jobs, it's the private sector. People with capital and skills can invest anywhere in the world. We've got to make them want to choose South Africa.To do that, we have to understand what is stopping them from choosing South Africa and get those obstacles out of the way. We know what they are. Unreliable electricity supply was number one. I’m sure it’s about to be overtaken by an unreliable water supply.No one is going to invest in a country where you aren’t sure of getting electricity 24/7, or clean water. You can’t live or work in those circumstances.Then, of course, there are other things. I mean, if the ANC government is going to take a third of your business right there before you begin, because of some BEE law, you're not going to look at that country. You're going to go somewhere else.No one's going to tell you who to hire and fire, or put all kinds of bureaucratic obstacles in your way. And then there's the Expropriation Act. Any international investor - and that’s what we need most - looking at South Africa and reading Section 12 of the Expropriation Act would say: “No way. I could invest in this country, and someone could expropriate my entire investment.”Helen Zille (06:51.744)So we've got to understand: no one is forced to invest in South Africa. They’ll do it if we are a better investment destination than the thousands of others competing for the same money. Until we get that into our heads, we must understand that social engineering isn't going to work. Governments can't prescribe investment, they can only create conditions for it.Bronwyn Nielsen (07:23.101)I want clarity on a narrative that the DA would have agreed to a VAT increase if you'd achieved certain concessions: on NHI, on expropriation without compensation, on possibly additional ministerial posts. Can you clarify?Helen Zille (07:50.242)Well, additional ministerial posts haven’t been on the table. The DA is not here for positions, status, or perks. That’s absolutely never been on the table. Nor has the Bill.We believe that expropriation is such a barrier to investment that we keep putting it on the table to say, "If you're going to have this and want to attract investment, you’ll have to think again."We're fighting the Expropriation Act in court. And I'm very confident, as confident as you can be in this uncertain terrain, that we're going to win. So apart from pushing back the VAT, I believe we’re going to push back the Expropriation Act too. We've got a strong legal case.There’s no need to bargain around that in exchange for VAT concessions. What we need are measures to grow the economy, primarily in the network industries.We’ve got to take away the monopoly that SITA has on government internet access, it’s a feeding trough for ANC cadres. We’ve got to ensure the railways are working, ensure devolution of power so cities can run effective metro police with proper authority.We’ve got to concession the ports and the railways. And what we said to the ANC at the time was: if you give us this raft, and it was a big list, of major reforms to achieve growth, we’d be prepared to negotiate a small VAT increase, for one year only.Helen Zille (09:55.618)But the ANC was absolutely not prepared to meet our conditions. So we said, "Well, that’s fine, then we’ll take you on head-on."Bronwyn Nielsen (10:04.807)Thank you for clarifying. Bronwyn Nielsen (10:44.733)Fikile Mbalula, in his briefing today, said the DA must ask themselves seriously how they’re going to proceed in the GNU when they don’t agree with the budget. What’s your response?Helen Zille (11:11.842)Yes, sure. I mean, we showed them what we did when we didn’t support the budget. We stopped the budget. We stopped the fiscal framework, which is the basis for the budget. That’s what we did. And now we’re in negotiations again to get a budget we can all support.Bronwyn Nielsen (11:31.277)The smaller parties within the Government of National Unity, what do you make of the noise surrounding the budget and the back and forth on who supported VAT and who didn’t? Don’t you despair in this political game that is unfolding, Helen?Helen Zille (11:50.158)Well, there’s a very simple factual test you can put on it: the VAT increase was in the fiscal framework. Who voted for the fiscal framework? The parties that voted for the fiscal framework supported the VAT increase. It is as simple as that.Bronwyn Nielsen (12:12.167)Talk to me about six months, twelve months out and South Africa as you see it, with a sturdy Government of National Unity at the helm.Helen Zille (12:26.338)Well, a week is a long time in politics, as the famous saying goes. So you never know what’s going to happen next. This is going to be a very, very unusual coalition.If any of the things that have happened in the past six months had happened in any normal European coalition, the government would have fallen instantly. But South Africa is a different kettle of fish. We can take each other head-on within the Government of National Unity and survive.That’s a very interesting feature of South Africa. Every time we have a head-on clash, people say, “Well, the government is falling.” Not in South Africa. We’re a bit more robust and a bit more sturdy than that.Now, that’s not to say there won’t be an issue that makes it impossible for us to stay in the GNU. But all our polling tells us that the GNU is enormously popular and very much supported across the board.For as long as that remains the case, we will continue fighting, standing up for our voters, and remaining in the GNU, until it becomes impossible for us to stand up for our voters within the GNU.We will stand up for our voters. But we can only do that because we have enough support and enough votes to hold the balance of power. That means we can bring the government down if we withdraw.The smaller parties are all there by grace and favour of the ANC. Cyril could fire them tomorrow, and it would make no difference at all. That explains why they are so quick to please the ANC, we don’t have to. We are there because of the voters, not by grace and favour of a presidential appointment.Bronwyn Nielsen (14:22.779)I want to pursue that point. If you were to withdraw, the government would fall. Dr. Frans Cronje, political scientist and a regular on this platform, spoke of a potential trigger for a vote of no confidence in Cyril. If it came to that point, is that the end game? If you were to exit, would it be a vote of no confidence that triggers it?Helen Zille (14:49.056)Well, the ANC has got a tremendous succession problem. It’s been a party that has been unable to attract a lot of talent because they’ve been unwilling to do so. They are a gatekeeping party. They keep out talent.The DA, on the other hand, consciously searches for talent. We go out and look for the best people available. That’s why you see so many outstanding young people coming up through our ranks.So the question is: if Cyril goes, then who? I can tell you that Paul Mashatile, if he succeeds Cyril, will not want the DA in the GNU. His first order of business will be to get rid of us.So it is highly likely that if Cyril Ramaphosa were to be removed, and if Paul Mashatile were to succeed him, the Government of National Unity as we know it would end.Bronwyn Nielsen (15:53.295)Helen, talk to me about the personal toll this has taken on you. I mean, the fight has been hard and it’s only just started, potentially.Helen Zille (16:05.420)You know, this…This has been very easy, Bronwyn. I mean, I don’t want to sound blasé, but I’ve only got one job now and you don’t know what a difference that makes.When I was mayor, I was the mother of two challenging adolescent sons, and they were challenging. I was the mayor, running a seven-party coalition, and I was also the leader of the party. That was challenging. I’d often work right through the night to get everything done.It was easier being the Premier and leader than being Mayor, because as Premier we had an overall majority, so I wasn’t dealing with the complexity of running a coalition.But when I became Chair of the Federal Council of the DA, that’s just one job. And the DA has tremendous capacity. I cannot tell you what wonderful support I have in the DA’s Federal Head Office.Literally, I get enough sleep now, which I’ve never had before, and it’s an absolute blessing. I mean, I don’t know where all this sleep comes from. I run an eight-hour day, sometimes nine, maybe ten at a push, but it’s totally manageable.Bronwyn Nielsen (17:30.791)There are a lot of people out there saying, “Helen for President.” How do you respond to them?Helen Zille (17:37.089)I’m here to make sure the DA succeeds. If the DA fails, South Africa fails. It’s as simple as that.I know I’m obviously not objective about the DA, but the only reason I’ve put my whole life into the DA is because I know it’s the difference between success or failure for South Africa.I see my job in South Africa’s history as putting the DA in the best possible position to take the next step. I’m sure we’ll have a DA President in the not-too-distant future. It won’t be me, but I hope I will have paved the way for that to happen.Bronwyn Nielsen (18:22.461)I was listening to you at BNC#7 - the conference - in your introductory remarks, commenting on Alec Hogg, the founder of BizNews, having held his position as a journalist and created numerous platforms in the journalism space.You made that change from journalism into politics. I’ve been dying to ask you this - and I suppose it’s because I am a journalist - but would you have made the same choice now, knowing what you know?Helen Zille (18:59.362)Yes, definitely. I would always have made the same choice. It’s not always easy - but no job is always easy. There have been ups and downs - all jobs have those.But nothing could have compared with what I’ve done for exhilaration and challenge - and I really enjoy that.Bronwyn Nielsen (19:18.109)It’s been such a pleasure chatting to you. Helen, thank you very much for your time. Again, I know it’s been a long day, and I’m sure we’ll engage again as we head towards the 21st of May and the politicking begins all over.So, Helen Zille, Chair of the DA Federal Council, joining us here on BizNews.

Zille: Next steps after VAT freeze; the stability of the GNU; and the ANC's 'tremendous' succession problem

Related Stories