Chair Bongumusa Makhathini on SABC board’s approach to State Security Agency

A storm has erupted around a front page Sunday Times report that SABC's directors resolved to approach the State Security Agency to help address "leaking" of board minutes. Harvard-educated SABC chairman Bongumusa Makhathini reacted aggressively, accusing the newspaper of pursuing a commercial agenda and using fake news to attack the national broadcaster's credibility. On Rational Radio, we approached the issue from a different perspective – probing why the organ charged with protecting national security should busy itself with leaked board packs; and given the SSA's history with the national broadcaster, asking whether the Sunday Times was, rather, acting in the national interest. There's some good news in all the noise – there's clearly a new sheriff in the SABC town who won't countenance the behaviour of his predecessors. – Alec Hogg.It's a warm welcome to Bongumusa Makhathini who is the chair of the SABC board, which has got itself into an interesting debate at the moment with The Sunday Times newspaper. Mr. Makhathini, you obviously got a little surprise no doubt when you saw the headlines in The Sunday Times yesterday?.___STEADY_PAYWALL___.It was a shocking headline indeed and false and quite worrying that people can go to that level of recklessness, tarnishing our repetition and the credibility of a public broadcaster..Just for clarity though – in the story itself – did you have any problems with the context or the facts therein?.I had a lot of problems with the headline – that as a board we've had a meeting and made a decision to spy on our staff – is false. That's the first fundamental problem, but also the impact of such a story – because in broadcasting, your credibility is everything – if people can't trust you as a journalist, they feel they can't do their work because somebody is spying on them. It just compromises the relationship between us. There is a lot of trust between us – as the board and the employees – but generally that fundamental issue is that it affects our bottom line. If South Africans see that there is some level of chaos or instability at the SABC, they don't pay TV licences and competitors can take advantage of these things. Our advertisers then flock to other players because its business in the first place..I get that, but the headline and I can understand why you're upset about that, but the article itself was there – factually – that you're disputing..Yes we're disputing that we made a decision to spy on people. What I'm agreeing with is the issue of them leaking information – distribution of confidential information – to third parties and we resolved that we would seek assistance from the State Security in terms of advising us on different methods that we can use to protect our information. Secondly, it is not correct that journalists are excluded from this. This legal opinion was solicited in 2018 and we specifically said we cannot involve the journalist in anything to do with the SSA. We've taken enough precautionary measures to make sure that journalists are protected and the Constitution of this country is also adhered to and respected..Mr. Makhathini the fact that you are calling in the State Security Agency, haven't they got better things to do with their time than to track down board papers that might have been leaked?.I think the importance of the role of the State Security really, is that when one of the entities of government needs help, it's there. The same way we work with – for example – the auditor general. We could have gone to any private security company, but if we work with State Security it's within government and I want to assure the public that there is no way – with this current board – that we have an executive that would do anything that is outside the law or that is illegal..The context, the State Security Agency was operating within the SABC recently – not under your tenure, not since December 2017 and the changes in the country – but they were there. Surely going back to them – and engaging with them – is a risk anyway from a board perspective? Why not just talk to a private company? This is a big problem for you, that the board packs are being leaked, but surely to bring the State Security Agency in – to look after something of this nature – seems a bit like squashing a flea with a sledgehammer?.I do think we as South Africans need to be fair and honest. It doesn't mean that everybody at the State Security is a rogue element. It doesn't mean that because there's certain people who did wrong things – not everything that has gone wrong was driven by one side – there was a willing participant on the other side. We are a board who's mandate is very clear, we are a board that respects the law and the constitution of this country. So anybody who comes to assist the SABC, is not going to be allowed to do as they please. We're going to guide them and if we're not happy with what they offer us, or if it is in contradiction of the law, we will take the necessary steps. At some point, some of these entities were compromised and we've got to accept that there are South Africans who are willing to do what is right..Okay. When you look at this – on reflection – we now have got something that has exploded beyond where you would have wanted it to, was there not another way to have dealt with this to perhaps find a different way of plugging the leaks of board packs?.I need to clarify that we are in an exploration phase. We haven't even had the meeting with the SSA. We've just written a letter to them requesting to meet with them to present to them my challenge and see how they can help. We're not limited to the SSA, we could go to another expert. In fact, we are already implementing a solution around board packs, which would for example prevent anyone from forwarding or printing any of them. We're just talking to different experts. We decided to start with the SSA – and we shouldn't confuse the excitement in the mistake made by The Sunday Times – and doubt everything that we've done. We're seeking help in the hope of blocking all of those loopholes that exist..So, is there not a better way of doing this, picking up the phone to the editor of The Sunday Times and having a chat with them to try and square this off?.Before we got to where we are now, a lot was done to try and clarify things but we're also a business. It's easy for The Sunday Times to sit with the minutes of the board of the SABC. Because they are our competitors – they could also use those minutes to push an agenda that is baseless – that cannot be ignored, now we're just focusing on the State Security and the credibility of the SSA and ignoring something that has gone fundamentally wrong with The Sunday Times..When you say the the allegations are baseless, or the agenda is baseless, what is the agenda?.I'm not sure what the agenda is but what I know is that at the SABC, we're turning it around – as an entity – and our competitors may not be happy with the turnaround. Some of them have been so successful because the SABC was sleeping on the job. Secondly, every time when there is a perception that there's chaos at the SABC, of course the advertisers will flock to them. But also, if there is a view that our journalists are not free to do what they need to do, political values get compromise, so it's all about people believing in the credibility of what they do. If they are in the same business as we are, I'm sure it serves their interests if we are not seen in a positive light. This is why we are disturbed by this headline and what was pushed by The Sunday Times. They are competitors in this space..I get it, but what if the only agenda is in the public interest, saying that there is a public broadcaster and it looks like the board wants to bring in the State Security Agency who have abused their position with the public broadcaster in the past. If that's the agenda then perhaps it might be more fruitful to sit down and have a cup of tea..If that was the agenda, they would not have the headline that the board has taken a decision to spy on their staff. That does not reflect – in anyway in the documents – so you can't say you're pushing public interest by lying. That's the first problem. The second problem is, what is the story here, what's the big issue? Sometimes when people communicate and get excited about something and push a story, you need to ask yourself what exactly are they trying to achieve? They've created fear amongst our employees and we've now got this crisis – that we have to manage – because of them misrepresenting facts..Not because the board wants to bring in the State Security Agency..There is no law in this country which bans anybody from working with the organs of state. If you look at our track record – this new board – there is nothing that we've done that shows that we are not committed to the constitution of this country and to doing what is right. Look at our performance during the elections this year. It was rated one of the best elections in terms of coverage from the SABC. Look at the calibre of executives that we've brought in. Look at the effort that has gone in to cleaning up the mess – the legacy issues – so there is nothing that we've done, there's never been any complaint from our journalists that as a board we're interfering,.Mr. Makhathini, thank you very much for your contribution today. The chair of the SABC board Bongumusa Makhathini.

Chair Bongumusa Makhathini on SABC board’s approach to State Security Agency

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