Ian Douglas shares Sol Kerzner’s secret: Vision while sweating the small stuff

In one of those MUST LISTEN podcasts, Ian Douglas provides us with a very human perspective on his long-time friend Sol Kerzner, the legendary South African entrepreneur who passed away on Saturday evening. Douglas separates the fake from the real in sharing Kerzner's story – from growing up in a tough neighbourhood to a life of riches and glamour. His secret: vision, sure, but never stopped sweating the small stuff. – Alec Hogg.We've got the right person to give us insights into Sol and we cross to London now – or to the UK, anyway – to Ian Douglas. Ian, how long were you and Sol friends and how long did you work for him?.___STEADY_PAYWALL___.Good morning, Alec. It's nice to be on your show. I worked for Sol for just on 20 years but I knew him for much longer than that. I knew him for most of my adult life. I in fact, I remember very clearly the first time I actually saw him was when he was walking into the Sun City main foyer – with Anneline Kriel on his arm. After the Frank Sinatra concert (I think that was in about 1979)..Well, then David Shapiro's honeymoon would have been a few years before that. Do you remember that early history? Sol's parents: did they own hotels?.Yes, absolutely. I know the history well. His parents in fact came out to South Africa in the 30's from what was then Poland or kind of between Poland and Russia. They settled in South Africa. Sol was born in 1935. They actually ran a café in Bez Valley, in the south of Johannesburg, which was a rough neighbourhood in which Sol grew up. But they owned a couple of hotels. The first hotel they purchased the lease on, was a hotel called The Menorah – obviously The Menorah from the Jewish faith – the candle, as you know. That was a tiny hotel and then they purchased something called the Palace Hotel but Sol's first real break as it were, was in 1962 when he bought the lease on what was called The Astra Hotel in Durban, which was a small hotel, but in which he started the first sort of proper nightclub offering in Durban, which was called The Talk of The Town and that was in 1962..Is it still around, The Astra?.No, I don't think it is. I think it's probably been converted into some kind of residential development now, but it's behind all the other hotels that he built such as The Elangeni, The Maharani etc. on the Durban beachfront..Yes, what used to be called the gold mine. I'm sure they still call it the gold mine in Durban..Yes, I think that's right..Ian, how come Sol went into accountancy first off? If you just traced his background, were his parents keen to – as immigrants often are – to give him an 'education'? Is that why he became a CEO?.I think that's exactly right. He was apparently a very diligent student. That's what he used to tell me and he was, I think, looking for a solid profession as so many young kids were in those days and went off and studied Chartered Accountancy at Wits, graduated and went into an accounting firm, one of the leading Durban firms. Durban, as you know, at that time, was the place to be. Cape Town, at that point in South Africa's history was kind of well-celebrated, not that well-known. Durban was where one went from Johannesburg and I think he purely decided he wanted to get into hospitality and that was when he made the move to lease The Astra. Then, the first venture of course, which was Beverly Hills, which was opened in December of 1964 and Umhlanga Rocks. Now, I remember Umhlanga Rocks at that time Alec, was sugar cane fields. There was nothing out there and he saw this piece of land, which was next to a seaside/weekend cottage type of thing. He decided that was where he was going to build South Africa's first 5-star hotel – 90 rooms. He went overseas – one trip – I think he allowed himself one trip and he flew to Miami through New York. He always used to tell a very famous story that he was in the elevator in one of the buildings in New York and in those days of course, they had elevator ladies who used to operate the elevators. This lady was in floods of tears and he asked her, "What's wrong? Can I help?" and she said no, our President has just been shot and that was of course, Kennedy. He was shot around that time. I don't remember the exact date but he went on this trip and he basically explored what he thought were the leading hotels of that sort of seaside location of Miami and Florida and he came back, and he built what he felt was his version of that, to bring 5-star luxury to South Africa..Incredible that he was way ahead of his time in so many respects, but in that way, too. Nowadays, if we want to build something in this country, we do go and look internationally. He was very driven, though. I was talking to… Everybody's got their Sol Kerzner story, so talking to people who worked for him; it was not unusual to get a 2am phone call from Mr. Kerzner to say, "I need to meet with you now." Where did this come from?.He was very driven. He was a guy who had a temper. It was well-known he had a temper but the great thing about Sol was that you always knew where you stood with him. Somebody once said to me, "You're in trouble when Sol stops talking to you" because he was always just very engaged and very on top of all the details and if he stopped talking to you, he clearly had written you off and was going to move on. But yes, he used to call people at all times of the night. He was a guy who got his hands very dirty. He used to be on the site at whatever time, 5 in the morning or midnight, etc. and that was the way he worked. He didn't seem to have much need for sleep like some of the other great leaders of the world and he used to just keep going. He of course, was drinking quite heavily at the time, but he gave up alcohol and cigarettes when he was about 70 and was a teetotal for the rest of his life..He comes from a working-class background, as you've explained. Bez Valley: pretty tough those days. He was also fairly short. I remember meeting him a few times and I'm not sure. What? 5ft6 or so?.Probably about 5ft6/5ft7 or something like that..But as a result, I guess he must have been picked on as kids do and then, he took up boxing. I love that saying in the incredible eulogy that you guys put together, that Sol would say, "Keep boxing on" or "Just box on"..Yes, you've got to box on. You're right. He was well-known for that expression. He was one of those guys who… There was a bit of dichotomy in a way because he played in the symphony orchestra in Johannesburg when he was a kid and at the same time, took up boxing and became the welterweight champion of Wits University. He always used to say he took up boxing out of self-defence. He grew to love the sport. He thought it was one of his best passions and he used to do a lot of boxing fights with a very good friend of his, a very close friend – one of his best friends – the legendary Bob Arum of Top Rank. Yes, he was certainly one of those guys who certainly came from the rough side of the tracks and made good. I think that was the great thing about Sol. He never really talked about his background or his origins. He was someone who… Some of his best friends were the guys that he was at school with or in the army with and they remained his friends till his dying day..You also mentioned Bob Arum, whom I think most South Africans of a more mature age would remember brought world boxing to this country – even champions in Gerrie Coetzee. But he's also incredibly well-connected elsewhere. When you mentioned names like Frank Sinatra, Freddie Mercury, Elton John, Shirley Bassey, and Liza Minnelli; he knew them all very well and managed to bring them to what was then a very isolated South Africa..That's right. He knew them all. He liked to spend time with them and I think they liked to spend time with him. Bob Arum is still working in boxing. It's quite a remarkable story. He's over 80 and he's just one of those guys that keeps on going and he's working with his son in the business, and the business is going really well. But yes, he knew a lot of famous people and he made it his business to know them and he brought them out – as he said – in a South African ground-breaking event. David's previous guest was mentioning the 'Million Dollar'. When the 'Million Dollar started, $1m was a huge some of money. There was no other golf tournament in the world that offered that sort of prize money and that was Sol's genius. The story behind the golf tournament is an interesting one though, because it was actually Lee Trevino who was a friend of Sol who said to him, "If you really want to get yourselves on the map… If you want people to know where South Africa is and where Sun City is, offer a prize of $1m" and that was what he did..Fascinating. He always thought bigger than anyone else. When he built The Lost City… well, Sun City itself, but The Lost City was a huge amount of money, as I recall. Over R1bn for those days. What was it about him? How can the rest of us lesser mortals learn from someone who just didn't seem to have any limits to his ambitions and dreams?.I think it was one of those things where Sol dreamed big, but was also practical. He had a real grasp of the numbers, so it wasn't just fantasy stuff and somebody writing big checks. He really understood what drove people. He understood what true hospitality meant and he did his homework. Look, you can never deny that The Palace and The Lost City was a leap of faith but I think when Sol did a project like that, he always said, "Okay, I'm going to do this and I'm going to get the best people in the world to work with me on this." He would bring in talent and he'd create something that was unique, that was memorable and he executed it exceptionally well and I think that's the story. I think it's being able to combine that huge vision with being able to execute on the detail and making sure that you can combine those two are really key ingredients for any successful business..I've seen that with great business entrepreneurs. Time and again, they know the big stuff, but they also understand the detail. You did mention Bob Arum is working with his son. From Sol's point of view, when Butch (his son) died – and Butch was highly-rated by everybody. I remember talking to people after he died in 2006 and he was hugely regarded as really, walking in his father's footsteps. Did that knock his dad back?.Yes. I think nobody ever recovers from the loss of a child. It's an awful thing to happen. I would have the privilege of working with Butch as well and Butch was a remarkably good foil to his dad. They had some similarities but they also complemented each other so wonderfully. You're right. He was a very talented guy and he was in a very promising career in corporate finance, working with I think, one of the big companies in the States. Sol persuaded him to come and work for him and join him and he then became CEO of the company and he had been CEO of the company for two years when he was killed in a helicopter crash in 2006 in the Dominican Republic. I was at the time, in Singapore, which I think is an interesting story as well. It demonstrates Sol's grit and determination. I was working on the bid that we were putting together for the Singapore casino license, which we subsequently lost, unfortunately. But Sol literally went to New York, buried his son in New York, and got on a plane and flew across the world for 26 hours to get to Singapore to come and make the presentation to the government. He was one of those guys who said, "I want to leave this to Butch. Butch believes in this project and I want to get it done" and that was the determination of this remarkable man..Extraordinary man. Extraordinary story – not without controversy – as I mentioned on Biznews that I went off all the way to Mauritius to interview him in 1994 about all the controversy about alleged corruption with Kaiser Matanzima in Transkei. He told me he denied that there was anything to it. What did he say to you guys about the way that he was continuously targeted on that?.Look, I think it was something that got to him. It was something that upset him but it was something that I think, he was ultimately redeemed from in a sense that Krista Nel (the Attorney-General of the Transkei) formally dropped all those charges against Sol Kerzner in 1997. I think what's important as well Alec, is to say that we know that Sol went on, after these allegations, to be licensed around the world to operate casinos. He was licensed in the UK and he was licensed in Atlantic City, New Jersey, which is known in the casino industry to be the toughest jurisdiction in the world to get licensed. What I'm saying is that if you get licensed in Atlantic City by the Casino Control Commission of the State of New Jersey, you know they've gone through the detail and they've gone through the stuff, and they'd clearly satisfied themselves that there was nothing there because they don't any chances on this stuff..For sure..I think that's an important point to make on this thing and I think it's sad that it's kept on going. I think South Africa was going through a challenging time and there were clearly a lot of different points of view on this. I think that was where it ended up..Yes, and I went through something similar when I joined the board of Phumelela, which was in the gaming field – much smaller obviously, than Atlantic City – but you don't get those licenses if you aren't pretty squeaky clean. He did die in South Africa, so that didn't alienate him from the land of his birth..Sol was spending a huge amount of time in South Africa, right through his life and at no stage, did he ever stay away. He loved South Africa. He loved the rugby. He loved the cricket and all that South Africa represented. He came back. He spent a lot of time at the Johannesburg Hotel School, which he founded in Auckland Park and he loved being with the students. He used to visit them every year and speak to them, and tell them about what he thought were points to think about in hospitality. No, Sol was in South Africa all the time. He, in fact, spent probably the last eight months of his life in Cape Town in Leeukoppie, which is his home and that was sadly, where he passed away, surrounded by his family and his friends but his family particularly, of course He was buried yesterday in Cape Town and the family were present. I think everyone is very aware of this Covid-19 pandemic and the family didn't want to do anything irresponsible, so they kept the funeral very private. Just family were involved, to not expose anybody to the risks of large gatherings..But, even on his passing, he didn't go out without a little controversy. Fake news earlier in the day. How did all of that come about?.Look, I don't certainly know what happened but I know that Jeremy Mansfield, I must say, was very gracious about it and very apologetic about it. I think he was the first one to post that Sol had passed away on what would have been Friday night, which was wrong and I don't know how Jeremy got the story. Well, I do, actually. He said he was told it by two very reliable sources. He named the sources to me and I'm not going to go into that now, but they were clearly wrong. Unfortunately, what happened as a consequence of that, was that then, the Sun International, which was founded here in South Africa also published a statement, totally in good faith, believing that he had passed. The story just went out and we managed to get everyone to withdraw the statements they'd made. Sadly, he did pass on the night of the Saturday as you mentioned, just before 7pm..Ian, just to close off with: what did he think about South Africa. Clearly, in the past, he was one of the hugest supporters. I think he was a big fan and friend of Nelson Mandela. What did he make of where we are?.Look, we talked about it a bit. I think he felt that the era of the previous president, Mr. Zuma, was a time that was very sad for South Africa, that there was a lot of the things that were happening that were very bad for the country and he certainly didn't know how to deal with that. He thought it was a great tragedy. I think in terms of the current leadership; I think he was a great fan of President Ramaphosa but I think most importantly, what Sol felt was that South Africa had this extraordinary set of assets – the people – who are just naturally hospitable and great ambassadors for the country. The assets, the geography, the typography, and the weather… He just felt that this country had great potential. I think he was saddened by some of the declines that had happened with the infrastructure, etc. but he always used to come back here. He was a great supporter and a great defender of South Africa on the international markets and with his international friends and acquaintances. He loved South Africa. It was his home. It always would be his home and in fact, what was interesting as well is that Sol never took up citizenship of any other country. He remained a South African. He travelled on a South African passport. That, of course, had its challenges as well and I was often sorting out those challenges getting visas for all sorts of places, but he remained true to South Africa right to the end..Ian Douglas, a friend and as you heard, a long-time colleague of the late Sol Kerzner. May he rest in peace.

Ian Douglas shares Sol Kerzner’s secret: Vision while sweating the small stuff

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