LONDON — In this episode of TeamTalk, Bob Skinstad and I focus on the Springbok end of year tour which kicks off this weekend with their game against Ireland. A rare insight, too, into Bob’s new life where he shares how an old SA network led to a venture capital investment into a Swedish tech business. Also in this edition, we discuss the book of the moment, Jacques Pauw’s masterful The President’s Keepers and look ahead to the Ashes. – Alec Hogg
Well, here’s Bob Skinstad and we are talking Team Talk again, episode number whatever. Bob, you’ve been travelling, my word, all over the world it seems.
Yes, a little bit, Alec. Not too bad this week actually. It’s been quite nice, although the cold has set in.
Here, in the UK?
In the UK.
It’s like this week has got Jack Frost, hey?
Yes, I think they called it polar winds that were bringing some weather down and they said it was going to be more in the North and Scotland, and they were expecting snow. We haven’t had snow but my goodness, it is icy cold in London at the moment.
We’ve got the Springboks coming over from warmer, much warmer weather than this. What happens when you go on a tour like this and you hit this very cold weather?
The funny thing is, Bloemfontein and Pretoria at night, in the middle of the year, gets down to zero so, the guys are used to the actual extreme temperatures. I think it’s the long, difficult, muddy, and drizzly days, which affect them more than anything because these tours get longer and longer it seems. They’ve only just finished the Rugby Championship, went into a brief stint in the Currie Cup, and then they’re off on tour again. I think this one will be quite exciting. The team will be pleased with how they’ve finished off this Rugby Championship, and want to prove that they can beat all the teams that gave them a really hard time last year.
Is it a much more confident Springbok team that’s coming over now? They almost beat the All Blacks and, of course had some, apart from that 57 – 0 performance, some credible other outings.
Yes, they did. They had some seriously credible outings. Two draws against Australia, and Australia ended up beating the All Blacks so, they’ll be disappointed that that wasn’t them. Ireland are one of the teams who’ve recently done that to New Zealand and the Springboks will really want to lay into the teams that they’re playing over here.
You mentioned Ireland – that’s the big game this weekend.
Yes, in fact, I’ll get into the number of teams playing but the fixtures are funny at the moment. Eddie Jones was complaining the other day because he doesn’t get to play against the All Blacks this year or next year. This means that going into a World Cup, he wouldn’t have played against the best team in the world (or the next best team in the world) according to Eddie Jones, at all in preparation for taking them on at a World Cup. He’s got a really good point there and I think all of these outings now, in what’s seen as our ‘end of year tour’ but is very much the middle of the season for the UK, are vital. There’s a pecking order internationally, we know that there’s a ranking but there’s also little victories. Little victories for players to come out on top against someone who they might be playing in a semi-final or a quarter-final, or even just an important pool game, in a World Cup coming up. I think it’s fascinating to see how they all play out.
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Why would that be? Why would England be kept away from the All Blacks and even the Springboks?
I don’t think they are kept away so much. England are not playing SA this year but they’ve got a three-match tour in June next year in SA. Very much like the French tour this year, and the Irish tour last year, which I think is great. A three-match tour where you can, 99% of the time, get a result. It’s great. It’s sort of harking back to the old story of go on tour, and win the series as opposed to just a one-off match. We used to play Scotland once, and then Samoa, and then someone else, and they’ll go off home so, I think that’s great. Eddie Jones will use that as a really important cog in his preparation and building of that engine that he wants to go to the World Cup. SA will see it as exactly the same so, that’s not too bad. I just think that the calendars weren’t quite in sync yet. World Rugby have been trying to build towards this global calendar. There was a lot of pushing back from the clubs and the RFU in particular, to the muted arrangement. That’s playing out now because there’s not much that’s changed. There’s just more rugby in the filling gaps in between. So, the poor old players are again bearing the weight load of that but I also think the players at the elite level will be rested at the right time. They will be managed and they will get to play the big, important games.
You’ve done a number of these tours that the guys are busy with right now. After a long season is it easy or was it difficult to get yourself motivated?
No, it’s not. To be honest, I think Allister Coetzee has done well. He’s got a number of good players that he could have selected that he’s chosen from. He’s mixed it up a little bit. He’s given some younger guys some real opportunities and that showed. We had some really enthusiastic, exciting youngsters playing in this season for the Springboks, and with a measure of older heads who are now, it’s silly to say it, but they’ve been in the environment a long time and some of the senior players are still quite young. Thinking back to the Jean de Villiers of old, who was 23 and he had played 40-odd test matches, you know what I mean? Francois Steyn also springs to mind so, those kinds of players, and now mixing in with younger guys and medium age guys who haven’t had that many test matches. So, they’ll be really excited. I think the mix is good.
I don’t think that they looked dead on their feet in any of those matches. They were rested again in the pool stages of the Currie Cup, which I’m not sure, and that’s a whole different debate, that that’s the best thing ever for our domestic rugby but the semi-final and final of the Currie Cup were tremendous outings and tremendous rugby. I know we had a side wager on that and Western Province, obviously, came through against the Sharks and I had to justify my position in supporting Western Province, and luckily after the final whistle I didn’t have to but yes, I think they’ll be excited. I think we’ll play some exciting rugby. Remember, last year on this tour, Italy beat us and Wales beat us easily. This wasn’t a very pleasant time to be a South African – we drew with the Barbarians as well. So, they’ve got a repeat of some of those fixtures and they’ve got a point to prove.
What about this weekend against Ireland?
Let me just have a quick look at it here. In terms of the internationals in general, Italy vs Fiji is a nice, mouth-watering opener because everyone wants to know how Fiji are going to play and Italy have been playing some tremendous rugby. Whether Brendan Venter was helping them or not, Conor O’Shea has done a tremendous job as head coach there – that’s first. Then Scotland vs Samoa, a little bit of a SA influence in that team. Hugh Jones, who played on the wing and centre for WP, won the Currie Cup, and flew out the next night to join the Scottish team. He’s an international for them already, a try scorer last year in a number of matches. Then England vs Argentina, England have had scrumming practice this week against Wales. Unlocking some age-old rivalries but also some Lions friendships and I listened to Dan Cole talk about what it was like. He said, ‘the intensity was definitely higher because of what was at stake.’ But he said it was tremendous to learn in that manner. He’s not sure if Australia and New Zealand would ever do that a week before another test match but that was a huge step, for me, in terms of preparation.
Then Wales take on Australia – that will be one I’ll be watching to see how this Wales team are performing. Ireland are playing SA, we’ve learnt today that Jamie Heaslip is not going to be involved in that and he’s been a talismanic leader for them in the loose-forwards, and was a big part of a victory last year. Then France and New Zealand – the French have been a funny side, who seemed to beat New Zealand when they should actually lose the game, and then lose to New Zealand when they should win the game so, this is one where perhaps now they’ve got a little bit of encouragement from the fact that the Barbarians ran New Zealand so close and with an open running style of rugby so, I think it’s a tremendous weekend of rugby. I’ve told my wife I’m booking off Friday night and I’ll see you on Sunday morning. I’m not going to spend any time doing anything except watch all those games – I’m excited.
I guess the pub down the road is going to be quite busy as well.
Absolutely, just got to get out there and enjoy this game that we’re blessed with.
Bob, getting back to the game that most South Africans are interested in. Do the Springboks go into this match with a big chance?
Oh, I think so. I read Gordon D’Arcy’s comment about how Ireland can beat the Springboks. I would assume that Ireland would always think that they could beat the Springboks at the moment, the way they’ve been playing recently. They were big contributors on the Lions’ tour, the number of things they’ve been doing right as a union. We had a great opportunity to catch up with Dan van Zyl and learn about their coaching structures and how they’re building a whole army of young coaches, who’ve all got the same philosophy. They’re trying to push the players to attain excellence in their positions and that’s incredible. Conor Murray is a tremendous strategic thinker and I think he was a huge part, him and Owen Farrell, of leading the Lions’ backline revolution, if you want, which really scared the All Blacks on their own patch. So, we’ve got to watch that.
We’ve also got to understand that we’re building quite a formidable bunch of talented players as well. The best way to show the world that is to beat teams in their own backyard and the end of this tour has been touted by a number of the Springboks as their opportunity to actually, show the difference between the team this year and the team last year. You and I will measure them on that. If they lose to Ireland we’ll say, ‘well, it’s exactly the same as last year.’ Not everybody has forgotten that they missed beating the All Blacks by 1-point and they drew with the Wallabies. If you lose to Wales or Ireland, France or Italy, everyone will be pretty disappointed.
Well, it’s a fantastic weekend coming ahead for us but it’s not just rugby at the moment. My football team, West Ham, finally got rid of Slaven Bilic it was very sad to see him go but we’ve got David Moyes back in there now.
Moyes is back on track, is he?
So, the Sunderland and Man. United supporters are probably saying, ‘you can have him,’ but he is a Scot, and the Scots make good managers, Sir Alex Ferguson so, let’s hope that West Ham pulls themselves up.
Well, he was amazing for years and years as Everton’s manager, wasn’t he? He just had a wobble in between, I suppose.
That’s a good way of looking at it, and it certainly is the way I’m looking at it because when you’re 18th in the league you have to look up. But cricket is also big at the moment, the Ashes Series. Just to put it into context for people who perhaps don’t know much about cricket. How important is the Ashes Series?
It’s everything. I love my cricket and I’m a rabid supporter of it. So much so that last night I watched New Zealand try and overcome or chase down 67 runs in an 8 over match against India in the final T20 of their series that they’ve been playing. A gripping one-day international series, which India won in the final match as well, and India won it. They managed to restrict New Zealand, who didn’t quite make the 67 runs, or 68 to win I think it was, and India just bowled spectacularly well. They’ve got Pandya, and Kumar, and some players we’ve never even heard of except for IPL glittering appearances every now and again but suddenly they’re now part of the India outfit. Along with Kohli, and MS Dhoni, who was here again – spinning the helicopter bat and making runs. It was absolutely fascinating to watch.
It’s become entertainment, hasn’t it?
Oh, proper entertainment. On the train this morning I was chatting to an Englishman who was reading the Ashes’ write up, they’re obviously in a preparation game at the moment and we’ll get onto Mitchell Starc and his bowling feats in a bit, but in just the sheer knowledge of where the players had come from? Who they played for before? Where they were playing their county cricket? How they’d done in the local T20? Where they were playing, going forward? What he thought of number 6 and number 7? I was speaking about Gary Balance and obviously, he’s got a Southern Hemisphere background as well and it’s mind boggling to know how much these people know about their cricket and how much they care.
Just the average Englishman, or a bit like the average American – if you ask him about baseball he’ll give you statistics going back many years and it’s a similar thing here. It’s a very sophisticated sporting public.
It certainly is and, also the passion for the game. Also, the number of people that are travelling with (the teams). I had the great privilege of playing golf years and years ago with one of the guys who was the founder of the Barmy Army, which is an official partner to the ECB – a travelling partner, a tour partner, a training partner. The thousands upon thousands of people who book in three-years before the next Ashes away trip gets setup and are going to be there for all 5 tests, and everything in between, and will spend loads of time and money on this trip. Interestingly there was a Tweet this morning. Someone was saying, ‘$9.10 for a beer – do yourself a favour get out of the stadium and go and have a curry and a beer up the road,’ and they were communicating as a social group saying, ‘I’m not going to be fleeced doing this for 5 days,’ but someone down the road has found a pub with a $5 beer and a good burger so, go and have a meal there somewhere. So, they’ll always find a way.
And we just thought it was a drinking club. Outside of that, you’ve actually put a big deal together, on the business side, and I remember you telling me that you’d gone to Scandinavia, you’d gone to Stockholm to go and meet some people and this week we saw the deal, the MOST deal. I spoke to your colleague, Keet van Zyl at Knife. How do you actually find these things, Bob?
This is a funny one. This is a network and you know me, I’ve always spoken about business development for me as a series of connections and it’s about how to put the right people together at the right time. I got a phone call out the blue 10 years ago from a gentleman by the name of Erich Hugo, Hugo he calls himself now because he’s not in the Western Cape. He’d grown up in SA and he was helping on the engineering side for a company, which ended up developing headsets or headphones. The company has a number of brands, Urbanears, Coloud – they’ve built it into one of the world’s biggest headphone as an accessory-type brand. They’ve got a number of brands out there now and they’ve literally, from nothing, grown into billions and billions of Swedish Crowns, and he asked me for some help in connecting him with some distributors in SA. He said ‘we went to the same university – I see we were in the same res, can I phone you?’ So, we had a Skype chat and I put him in touch with a couple of guys. The distributors helped and they’ve literally grown around the world. Â
We maintained the friendship. It wasn’t something I was in. I wasn’t going to be the distributor – it’s a very difficult game, if you don’t know what you’re doing. It was 10 years ago and I didn’t have capital to put into it myself. I basically did an introduction hoping that one day it would all come back and funnily enough he phoned me out of the blue. We do chat on email and we’ve been to a couple of functions together. He’s an avid rugby fan so, we laugh about the different teams we support and that kind of thing. He said, ‘we’ve developed another product.’ It’s born out of a need that we’ve identified. His brother is a farmer and ships a lot of product overseas and he used to work for Nokia so, he’s got this engineering and business development brain and said, in the mobile sensory technology space what do companies need? His brother actually, had put some money into helping some of the guys who supplied their product.
Was this in SA?
In SA, with a rival technology sensor and when I say, ‘sensor,’ so imagine how the ambient environment in a container would affect a number of things. Light is one thing in ripening of food, temperature is a huge factor, speed obviously, and then general GPS positioning (e.g. where is it?), and then they’ve got other things like sudden movement, jolting, pressure, etc that aren’t necessarily able to be used in other sensors so, because they came out of the Nokia background they’ve used an engineering team, which uses the most up to date GSM technology. So, on a journey they pick up all the cell-phone and feed off all the cell-phone towers so, you track literally up to the minute. Every 60 seconds you get a ping to your managed desk of the product. This is where it is. This is the temperature. This is the light. This is the shock sensor reading. This is what’s happened over the last 60 seconds with your product.
And you’ve got that GSM background so, you could have a container right at the bottom of the ship with everything around it and you still get the signal, which was the thing that I was wondering about how they got to that point.
The beauty is that the engineers so, as we’re seeing the Apple launch right now, people are making other phones. Is the screen bigger on the other phones? No, they always seem to be playing catch-up so, these guys have driven the engineers to bring the price down and the ability up. They’re building a motor around the fact that they could, at probably 60% more times than another sensor product; one, make it through a metal containers walls, and two, make it to a cell-phone beacon on either an island or a ship. I just loved what they were doing. We’ve monitored it closely, and we got an opportunity. They did an early stage, let’s call it family, friends, and fools and people around them who were around, which we participated in and we bought out a significant chunk of one of the founders who’s not necessarily going to be in the UK. So, he’s still got a healthy chunk of the business. He wanted to mitigate some of his own personal risk. He was in SA most of the time, and we took over a chunk of that.
I’m hoping to use some of my contacts from going to university in Stellenbosch, the SA network and, also this is not just in perishables or in food. Electronics need to be monitored, literally, at 100% of the time. Insurances are a huge part of managing relationships between supply, demand, delivery, etc so, we’ve got a huge road map. We’ve got my first observer board meeting, although we’ve now got information on the elements, which are going into different customers and we’re getting feedback.
So, you’re on the board now but you’re also on the board for some interesting people.
Not yet, but I’m mooted to be. In terms of their law, I think the board changes at the end of February, which I’m now the person waiting to get in but I go straight into an observer role, which is great. I get the info and I get to see everything.
But don’t they speak in Swedish?
Listen, this is a SA guy.
Or maybe Skinstad – has that got a bit of a Swedish background?
A bit of a Scandinavian tang there.
So, you’ll understand a few words.
I wish I could speak Swedish. I’d spend more time in Stockholm but I think my wife would divorce me. It’s a beautiful part of the world, let’s put it that way.
Yes, in many ways. They’re beautiful.
Yes, but what an interesting journey. This is a SA guy, doing so well over there and I’m just really pleased, and let’s call it an observer on that journey, and we hope it goes from strength-to-strength.
And there are other opportunities like that. Now, this is Knife Capital, and they do have the venture capital funds – will this go into one of those venture capital funds?
Yes, that’s right so, Knife Capital have put the deal together and that’s why Keet was chatting. Keet helped on the structuring and where we do it, how we do it and to make it beneficial for all parties? Knife Capital is not just a traditional venture capitalist. We’re a partner in the business so, we help them go and build a partner universe. Who could we draw into this business journey one day? Who’s going to want to buy a business like this? Who’s got those relationships and where do you do it, and we draw a road map with them.
But investors in SA, going into those venture capital funds, a 12J, is it?
Well, we manage the funds for KNF, which is a 12J fund and that’s SARS provision 12J. Almost like an entrepreneur’s’ relief.
Will this investment go into it?
This one won’t go into 12J. This one is done, well Knife Capital has done it for a separate client, but it’s the same process.
But there are other opportunities by you being associated with them, running or looking after their office here in London. There are going to be other opportunities using the SA network, wherever these smart guys might be in the world.
Absolutely, to be honest, I think this one and between you and I.
It’s not just between you and I, Bob.
Well, what I mean by that is if we look at the…
Otherwise I’ll take it out.
If we look at the focus for this business I don’t think it would be beneficial for a Swedish business to be invested in and based in CT. We’re using funds from the UK, this part of the world, and Europe but we see SA as a huge growth market. So, it’s going to benefit SA. It’s going to grow in SA but I don’t want to miss out on South America, the USA, and across Europe. I see a massive growth in what’s happening as Russia starts to open up. A huge amount of consumers. These guys have worked with and are working with IKEA. They don’t need to necessarily go and find too many more customers when you’re working with a global giant like that.
Well, maybe Markus Jooste. He says that’s his target, he wants to get bigger than IKEA but leaving him aside. The big story in SA this week has been Jacques Pauw’s book. It’s been quite extraordinary. I read it over the weekend. How have you been finding it?
Alec, I’m a bit torn on this one because I got the PDF from a fishing mate of mine and I was 15 pages in before I started getting any other news on Twitter and I think I had a break for reading and I was like, ‘what if’ or ‘should I be buying?’ I’ve already committed mentally that when I can find one.
Well, buy the Amazon one.
I’ll buy the Amazon one, exactly, and just deliver it to a friend because I think everybody should read it. I was absolutely blown away by the systematic linking and joining for me, of all the dots. All the things that I had heard, any editorial comment that you’ve read in SA over the last two years have got frayed ends or loose ends. We’re not sure why that person was appointed from there to go across there. We’re not sure why the reshuffle happened like this. We’re not sure why this business stopped investigating or this department stopped investigating that business, or this business bought that one. There are a million different things, which were just question marks and suddenly, for me, what Jacques, along with all the contributors, who’ve really put time and effort into a huge body of work have just clarified a lot of what we thought was going on in the background. I would definitely say that it’s something that anyone should read. I’m probably two-thirds of the way through. I’m voraciously reading when I can and I’ll be finished by the end of the week, and there’s absolutely no doubt in my mind that the public needs to be made aware in a book form but also in a verbal form. If someone can get it in all the native languages and read this, on a national broadcaster or put it onto SoundCloud and distribute. People need to know what’s going on in the background.
Yes, it certainly does join all of the dots together and a fascinating read. What I found of it was exactly what you’re talking about. In the news business we just get hammered every day there’s another… No, that’s exaggerating but certainly every week there’s another big scandal that comes through and it’s been going on for literally, a couple of years now.
But it blunts the knife eventually.
Yes, you become immune.
What happens when you walk out of your door now, did you feel a pang of guilt, remorse, sadness when you heard about 23 Americans were attacked in a church? Yes, of course we did. Did you feel more or less than what happened in Las Vegas? Did you feel more or less than what happened when someone drove into people on a bridge in London? I can’t even list the atrocities, which would have been the biggest thing to ever happen in our lives that are happening on a monthly basis at the moment and it blunts you. I don’t think that’s good for humanity and what was happening for me, and it’s not a microcosm because it affects us hugely, but I’m talking about in relation. Was that a story or a scandal would break and sometimes you shrug off your shoulders and you go, ‘another one,’ just carry on, what can we do?
Well, here’s one that I’m going to talk to Paul O’Sullivan about it in this week. A guy who got a contract from this crooked cop – General Phahlane –  to change some part of their IT system, a R1bn contract. The investigative unit within the police (IPID as they call them) have discovered that this fellow, through a car salesman, has given Phahlane, his wife, and his sister new cars – all 3 of them. It’s an open and shut case and yet there’s still people who say, ‘this is propaganda,’ or ‘this is fake news – this is not the way it should be.’
I’ll tell you what I read today was an excellent speech by Kgalema Motlanthe for the Helen Suzman Foundation Annual Speech, and it’s a brilliant speech. Bob, but what brought home to me was he said, his thrust was, ‘we’re at a point now where we can go one way or the other in SA.’ We can go into a way where we fulfil the promise of the democracy. Where we do strive for something better. Where we do try to be or to live up to the ambitions and the intentions that the Mandela era had for us. In other words, doing things honestly, looking after the poor people, etc. Or we can go the other way, which is to a complete failed African state, and it really is. That’s what happening in December, just around the corner. We really are at that point and Jacques Pauw has done an amazing job with ‘The President’s Keepers’ in explaining it all. So, nobody can say afterwards, particularly because that PDF is freely available now, via social media. He says, if you can’t afford it just read the damn thing. If you can afford it, buy a copy when you get the opportunity to because it’s sold out in the books. But by reading that we can inform ourselves and if we have any interest whatsoever in the future of SA that’s something we have to do.
Yes, I couldn’t agree more and I think the only thing that I would add to that, in a comment is as a passionate South African, who loves the place is that do we hitch our wagon to the star that it will all change post an election this December because if we do, and it doesn’t are we going to sit here 30 years later, allowing a dictator to appoint or to fire his own deputy so that it clears the way for his wife.
Like Zim.
That happened in Zimbabwe this week.
That is a very scary scenario but we won’t, Bob, and I don’t think any democrat and any South African, and we are global South Africans.
A hundred percent.
I think that’s the point that people often sitting back home think, oh well, what’s Bob Skinstad, Alec Hogg, what are these guys doing in London?
Well, my wife says I’ve been in SA more than I have been in the UK in just these last 2 months.
Well, you have. Not me, I like the cold, you know what I mean. But it is, it’s a reality. Every South African that I’ve bumped into here speaks very fondly of SA back home. They want to make a contribution and they want to support, and they do. Certainly, if you like, the war against the Guptas is being driven here. It hasn’t been driven back in SA.
Well, it’s been escalated from here, definitely.
It’s primarily been driven from here because the criminal justice authorities in SA are doing nothing so, you can only bring people to justice if the cops get on the case and they’re on the case. They’re on the case because of the people in the UK, Peter Hain, and many others who remain nameless, who’ve been very active. It hasn’t just happened that the FBI and the Department of Justice and the National Crime Authority in the UK are investigating the Guptas and HSBC, etc. That’s been quite a process behind the scenes that you get to hear off the record but they’re all passionate South Africans and will remain that way, especially on the weekend against Ireland.
Well, exactly so, I’ve got to have a little shout out to the Springboks. We hope they do exceptionally well against Ireland. This is a tough one for me because my mum is Irish and I’ve got an Irish passport and a SA passport, and I proudly hold both. I’m 100% supporting the Springboks in this match, you don’t have to worry about that but it doesn’t often happen that you also get a chance to say, ‘well done,’ to a youngster. And just on that, Ashes’ cricket, Tom Curran, who was the son of Kevin Curran, who formerly captained Zimbabwe, and coached Zimbabwe and played for Zimbabwe in cricket, he subsequently passed away. Tom’s brothers, Sam and Ben, also play at a very high level. Tom is currently in the Surrey outfit and through one of the injuries, Tom Curran has made it into the Ashes’ squad. He was born in CT. He went to Hilton College and then to Wellington College.
I knew there was a Hilton connection there somewhere.
Well, a SA connection first. I only found out about the Hilton College connection later on and he finished at Wellington College over here, and has qualified for the England cricket team and we wish him all the very best out there against the Australians. Lining up against one or two other Southern Africans as well, and we know there are a peppering of them but it’s great. He’s on his way over, hopefully he makes his debut or his test debut for England. He’s played in the one-day internationals and played very well, but he’s a fiery bowler and wonderful to see him, and a lovely sporting lineage in the family as well.
Who are the other Southern Africans we need to watch out for?
Right now, Gary Ballance springs to mind, who had a Zimbabwean background.
Did Ray Jennings’ son make the team?
I don’t think he did. You’ve caught me under-prepped on that. I looked at the team today. I’ll report back on that and I’ll see how many guys are actually linked to a Southern African background. It’s going to be a real chance for them to win some matches over there. Australia have been having to eat some humble pie recently, on tours around the world. Even against supposed minnows like Bangladesh. Now they’ll be at home, they’ll be really fit and raring to go. Mitchell Starc gave everybody a bit of a taste here of what he can do. In a Sheffield Shield this week he took two hat tricks, one in each innings and the first guy to do that – I think the ninth bowler of all time, the fifth Australian to do it but the first person to do it since 1978.
Wow, Bob Skinstad, we’ll be back again next week with our episode whatever of Team Talk.
