LONDON — PSG’s founder Jannie Mouton has started giving away the billions in personal wealth he has accumulated – and it’s all because of the example of a man who lives on the other side of the world. In this inspirational interview, Mouton emphasises the “outlier” qualities behind his own company and its creations Capitec and Curro, when explaining it watching Berkshire Hathaway chairman Warren Buffett on television which sparked his own decision. Buffett, he said, “had a big smile on his face” when the interviewer asked him about the decision to give 99% of his wealth to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. PSG’s founder says as there no nothing similar to that charitable trust in his native South Africa, his money will go into the Jannie Mouton Foundation – and will be invested in helping his own people and primarily in education. An extraordinary entrepreneur who is bequeathing an extraordinary legacy. – Alec Hogg
Well, it’s a warm welcome to Jannie Mouton, who did something quite extraordinary this week when he decided to allocate 40% of his shareholding in PSG into a charitable trust. Into what is now called ‘The Jannie Mouton Foundation.’ We were talking about this yesterday, Jannie, David Shapiro and I, and he said that it looks like you followed the example of Warren Buffett.
There is no doubt in my mind that he inspired me. I listened to him, his last talk on TV, 2 or 3 months ago. When he talked about his foundation there came a smile upon his face, he looked happy. That inspired me. The next day I was walking on the farm and realised that this is what I have to do as well. I’m sitting with the pledge of Warren Buffett in front of me.
That’s incredible, Jannie and it’s a billion Rand decision.
Yes, keep in mind that’s step number one. I have some bigger plans in place. The total value of my PSG shares that I own is about R12bn, or something like that so there’s a long way to go but we do it. There’s all sorts of rules and regulations, again, some of my PSGs I’ve given to the banks as securities. It’s not to donate it like that but I have a long-term plan to create something like Warren Buffett, the big boss and not my wealth.
Why?
SA was good to me. PSG, is a new SA company. I’m also looking at the positive side, if I travel overseas, myself and my family. It’s always great to come back to SA. My kids are here. My grandchildren are here. My family are here, SA was good for me.
Is that what the foundation is going to be doing, focusing just in SA?
I think that it is. We haven’t spelt out all the rules and regulations but that’s more or less what I have in mind. We were successful in SA so, yes, and there’s plenty of need in SA to do something great, here in the country.
Jannie, what areas are you going to be focussing on?
At the current moment, me and my family, that’s my kids and my wife, we’re still struggling to really say, yes, we’re going to focus on that. It would be charitable. You know what, education is very important for us. I have started a Stellenbosch bursary scheme. It’s running for more than 10 years now. Altogether I’ve put a 100 people through varsity with that scheme. We have a pre-school here in Stellenbosch, called Akkerdoppies, where both parents are working. They drop their kids in the morning there at 08h00, and collect them at 17h00. We look after them and it’s a tremendous success story. Things like that it’s great to build things like that. Yes, we have in mind to build a…  We’ve seen government already, to build a school. A new Paul Roos in Stellenbosch for the previously disadvantaged people.
You’ve done a lot of work in that regard already, on education with Curro. Has any of that, your involvement there, influenced you on understanding this?
There is no doubt in my mind that Curro inspired me. It’s unbelievable, he’s a wonderful person, Chris van der Merwe, they’re doing a fantastic job and we have realised now to create a fund where we give bursaries to scholars to attend Curro. Then it’s almost coming back to us again, to a certain extent.
It’s incredible. Jannie, what about your kids? How do they feel about the fact that their…?
They’re 100% behind me. They are very positive about it, and 100% behind me.
Are they going to be involved in any way in the foundation?
Yes, for sure. The rule and regulations, and currently setting up everything. Jan and Piet helped me tremendously with that because I simply don’t have all the knowledge any more. Things have changed so, there’s rules and regulations, and decisions. Even, I had bank facilities – I had to get in touch with the banks to sort out certain assets that I want to move to the foundation that maybe lie as security with the banks. There’s all sorts of stuff so, yes, they’ve helped me a lot with that.
Just take us through decision. You say you watched Warren Buffett on television. What did he say that touched your heart?
Okay, it was an interview, it’s his yearly interview with him. I have been in Omaha and I follow and read a lot about him. Then all of a sudden, they asked him about his foundation and there was a smile on his face and it’s the first time that I actually saw him very happy and proud and it hit me on the head. You know, my focus, just to do the right thing, get the right people, and invest properly it’s tiring. Here is something great and if you chat and discuss it with your children and they’re positive about it. Then it’s an absolute go-go story.
Is it a change for you to think that way?
To a certain extent, yes. I used to think always opportunities, good management, integrity, in the numbers and transparency, and good corporate governance, etcetera. Now, all of a sudden, I can relax and enjoy something.
I suppose when you think of many people who’ve done well in business, they seem to be coming to the same idea. Bill Gates, of course, is probably the prime example.
That it is, what Warren Buffett is his and Bill Gates’ story, that was – I can mention his name as well, he was inspirational to me as well.
Why did you decide to do your own foundation? Was there not another foundation because Buffett of course, gave all his money to ‘The Bill Gates Foundation.’
I haven’t studied in similar foundations in SA. For me, it was so clear and simple, yes. My children they differ, I have three. Jan is 100% and he’s helping me with all the admin. Piet is still running PSG so, he’s more busy. And Charity, my daughter, her name is not Charity for nothing. She started it on her own, things like that. She opened the first coffee shop in Khayelitsha, right in the middle of Khayelitsha where no white person ever goes. She opened a coffee shop there. I had to visit it over weekends to see and it was interesting, here in the middle of Khayelitsha, she had the coffee shop.
Jannie that’s interesting. I know Charity and she’s a delightful young woman but why did she do that? What was her motivation?
She actually, trained three people. Let me call it between us, people that didn’t have all the chances in life, three black guys. They opened a coffee shop and the first one worked. Then they opened another one in Khayelitsha and then one in Cape Town, then she could retire and leave it to them. You know there’s, I forgot the number but I think it’s 22 thousand people boarding the train every day, at Khayelitsha. There was not a coffee shop where they can buy something to enjoy while they go into work to CT. Yes, and then we went there on weekends and it was an unbelievable experience. Yes, she had to leave in the morning when it was still dark to be in Khayelitsha at 06h00 at the coffee shop. So, you ask and this is the kind of support that my children are giving me, they’re delightful that Jannie is doing something positive in life and not only accumulate money but creating something positive.
What about your peers, your other people in business? Do they look at you strangely or do you think you’re inspiring them too?
We don’t discuss personal things. There’s some very smart friends of mine. Each and every one has his own way of giving back to society. For instance, it’s an interesting number. In BE transactions in the PG Group, this is now PSG, Capitec, Pioneer, and Curro, have given R20bn, to BEE. That is what we made money for the old SA people that was… Yes, for me it’s great. We have given for BEE. We employ people, we are in position, yes, we pay taxes. We have the school, Akkerdoppies here, at Stellenbosch. It’s fantastic to visit it. It gives me unbelievable pleasure.
Jannie, the rest of your time, are you going to be giving a lot of foundation to the foundation because that’s probably the most valuable thing you’ve got?
Alec, you know I’m old. I’m twice as old as you. I like coming into work every morning, after the traffic, like at 09h00. Then I read the two English papers. The Afrikaans I read at home on the farm, I’m just living outside Stellenbosch, so it’s about 4kms to work so, it’s 7 minutes to work and it’s fantastic for me to come to work so, yes. Then there’s people that want to see me and come and chat to me, yes, it’s wonderful.
Yes, do you see though, within the foundation there’s much that you can add through mentorship, through inspiration. I remember…
I will put everything in place but I’m not going to give classes and mentorship and this and that. I simply don’t have enough energy for things like that. We are looking to employ somebody full time now and we, as a the trustees, it’s me, my children, and my wife, to give direction to the foundation. In the past, we used to run it. Then I would do something, then Jan does something, then Piet and Charity, and things like that. Now we are focussed. We have a person with an office and they can handle it from there.
So, the move this week to put R1bn PSG shares into the foundation. You say that’s only the first step?
Yes, and why, as I mentioned previously, I have a debt against some of my PSG shares. Why? That’s how I lived, and built up the business. There was always funding from banks so, some of my assets is as security by the banks. It’s not that you can take it away and put it in the foundation now so, it’s slowly a step to sort everything out, yes.
But in the end, that R12bn, your personal wealth, will it all be there in the foundation?
Yes, the idea is to, for a start, move up to 50% at a time.
I think Warren Buffett is going to be very pleased to hear this story. You need to give him a phone call because what he’s started here is quite incredible. On the other end of the world, having this kind of an impact, which presumably you’re seeing lots of impact.
I’m sitting with his pledge in front of me. He donated 99% of his wealth, and it will go into philanthropy during my lifetime or a death, and things like that so, yes, it’s the beginning. Warren Buffett is 16 years older than I am. I am very old and he is 86, and I’m 70 so, it’s time for me to do something. This was, for me the first step. I’ve opened my eyes and I’m on the way to do something like that because at the end of the day I don’t need an unbelievable amount of money on fancy cars or holidays and boats overseas and things like that. I enjoy SA. I enjoy my friends and my family. As I said the other day, my small children are here as well. Then I realised in English that you call them grandchildren but in Afrikaans they’re called ‘kleinkinders’ then I was speaking about my small children and then it was a speech that I had to make in English so, I used my small children but sorry it should be grandchildren – but they laughed a hell of a lot.
Very good, Jannie. I’m very pleased to see my friend, Mr Mouton, making such an amazing contribution to South African society. We’re doing our little bit at BizNews of course. Are you still feeling positive about the future of the country?
Yes, you know it’s interesting. What I’m telling people, I think that each and every one that you must insure your house. There is a chance that it can burn down. The same, that you have to invest in something overseas. Each and every one, according to his own capacity or means but it’s just to make sure. I’ve also been involved in that over time to, and all according to the rules and regulations of the country, to move something overseas. So, right, there is a bit of doubt about the future of SA. We read everything of Zuma, the Guptas, and this and that, it’s each and every day in your face so, you have to take out a bit of insurance. Apart from that, I’m sitting here, in Stellenbosch, at my office – it’s a wonderful place. Next door is Piet sitting and then my colleagues and my friends. It’s wonderful for me here.
Yes, well it’s a few people in the world can be as content as you are right now, and you’ve worked hard for it, and the decision that you’ve taken I’m sure is going to give other people the opportunities perhaps that they would otherwise not have had. Is that your intention here?
Absolutely, you know that 10 years ago we started a bursary scheme, half PSG and half myself and to date we have given more than 100 bursaries to previously disadvantaged people. Once a year they come for coffee here at the office. They’re thankful, it’s interesting people. It’s an opportunity in life you can see the smiles on their faces. Then sometimes you get this huge thank you and it’s always inspirational. So, education is for me and my family very important.
