SA’s women’s rugby team “are barking with the big dogs now” – Head coach Swys de Bruin

Swys de Bruin, head coach of the Springbok women’s rugby team, guided his team to a historic quarterfinal at the 2025 Women’s Rugby World Cup in England. In an interview with Biznews, the former Lions and Springboks coach said the strength of the team lies in their diversity. He highlighted the growing professionalism within the women's team and outlined ambitious plans for the future, including a professional six-team domestic league and an increase in international matches. De Bruin said the men could learn from the women's attitude, as “they never moan” and he said he could write a book about how tough women are. Committed to the stay until the next World Cup, De Bruin believes the team has firmly established itself with the elite and is now "barking with the big dogs.".Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox at 5:30am weekdays. Register here.Support South Africa’s bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here.If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here..Watch here.Listen here.Edited transcript of the interview.Linda van Tilburg (00:00.362)Swys de Bruin is currently the head coach of the Springbok women’s rugby team in South Africa. Under his leadership, the team achieved a historic milestone at the 2025 Women’s Rugby World Cup in England, reaching the quarter-finals, where they faced defending champions New Zealand. De Bruin’s leadership is seen as pivotal for the growth of women’s rugby in South Africa.Hi Swys, I watched you at the team’s homecoming. How did that moment feel?Swys de Bruin (00:36)Man, Linda, it was absolutely fantastic, I tell you what! When we started this journey a year ago, it was all so new to me. I didn’t know where to start or what to do. I’ve been in the men’s game for 35 years, 35 years, mind you, and then, boom, here I am with the women’s team! If I could turn the clock back just a few months, I wouldn’t believe what’s unfolded. It’s unreal, truly unreal. I’m so proud of the girls, the way they carried themselves. They were proper ambassadors for our country, especially for women’s rugby. It’s been a journey, and to see them shine like that, it’s something special.Linda van Tilburg (01:18.036)You described it as “miracle upon miracle.” Take us through those matches, starting with Italy and how you kept breaking records.Swys de Bruin (01:28)Ja, it was miracle on miracle, Linda, I must say. I’m a believer, you know, and I believe in miracles. I saw a lot of them happen, and the girls saw it too. Some of the rugby moves, the plans we put together, it’s like they just clicked, even though we hadn’t really rehearsed them properly. That Italy game was such a big moment in our lives. They were ranked seventh in the world, and we were sitting at 12th. I played them this little song, ‘Miracle on Miracle on Miracle,’ and the girls bought into it. I told them, “If you start believing, a miracle multiplies, it grows!” And they did, they believed. I convinced them, and it worked. Not just on the field, mind you, off the field, we sorted out so many things. The way it all came together, it was just fantastic, I must say.Linda van Tilburg (02:27)What was the magic ingredient, do you think? Was it the players you were working with or something else?Swys de Bruin (02:33)It’s like baking a cake, Linda, you need the right ingredients to get the best cake at the end of the day. I was so fortunate, so blessed to have it all come together. Firstly, the backing from SA Rugby was unreal, especially for women’s rugby. Rian Oberholster and Dave Wessels, the guys in charge of our performance, backed us to the hilt. Everything we asked for, they made it happen, not spoiling us, but treating us like true professionals. The girls felt that, and they bought in; they felt like proper pros. My management team, our manager, medical staff, coaches, analysts, every single one was top-class. For a lot of them, this was new too, but they stepped up.The miracle wasn’t just one guy, me or whatever, it was a lot of people doing the right stuff at the right time. The girls started believing they could do it. Before this, we couldn’t keep the ball for five or ten phases; we battled. But in the tournament, twice we went over 15, 20 phases, keeping the ball! And our defence, man, we used to break down early, but not anymore. Offensively, we’d collapse sooner than before, but now, hats off to our conditioning work. We’ve got this guy, Matthew Parker, who spoke to Rassie and their trainers, and he put in a massive effort. It was a lot of good work from a lot of good people that made it happen.Linda van Tilburg (04:26)What’s next for women’s rugby? It seems like the gates have been opened now.Swys de Bruin (04:31)Ja, true, Linda! I said at one of the press conferences, “The giant is awakened in South Africa,” and it’s so true. Everywhere the girls go, shopping centres, social media, it’s just surreal, the word they keep using. It’s like the men’s team when they won the World Cup, and we just made the top eight! Imagine if we can do even better. The realisation is hitting everyone now. This morning, we had a long meeting with the powers that be about the way forward. It’s going to be more professional now. They’re setting up a system with six professional teams in the country, franchise rugby, to make it proper.They’ve promised us strength-versus-strength games, because that was the turning point for us. Playing the All Blacks’ B team before the World Cup, and Canada, those were icons for a lot of our girls. When we beat the Black Ferns in that last game, it gave us tons and tons of confidence. The girls started believing. When you set the bar high and get over it, you realise, “Hey, I can set it a bit higher!” Their fitness tests improved, their body composition got better, they just became so professional.Our diversity is our big strength in this beautiful rainbow nation of ours. The Xhosa girls, they love the physical stuff; they’re tough, man, hard as nails. Then you’ve got the Western Cape girls with their different influence, and the traditional Afrikaans girls bringing another component. We’ve got girls from Limpopo too, many from disadvantaged backgrounds, some from orphanages, some who don’t even know their real parents. That’s why I say it’s a miracle, a miracle of miracles, that a story like this can come together and make them so proud, make the country so proud.Now we’ve got these young role models, and the followers are coming. I just heard about a schools’ tournament they organised, and it’s flooded with entries. Traditionally, rugby was seen as a man’s game here, not like in the UK or New Zealand. But now, there’s been a paradigm shift, “paradigme verskuiwing,” as we say in Afrikaans. Even the traditional guys who’d say, “No, rugby’s not for women,” they’re loving it now. It’s the joy the girls bring, the singing, the dancing, it’s so different. The stereotype for men’s rugby is focus, no jokes, just results. With the women, they love it, and that love rubs off on everyone. You must see them in a group, engaging everyone with their spirit. They took that to the rugby field, and some good results came out of it.Linda van Tilburg (08:49)I watched the last match at Twickenham, a sell-out crowd of 81,000! Who would’ve thought you could sell out Twickenham for women’s rugby?Swys de Bruin (09:01.858)Ja, Linda, my whole experience at the World Cup, from arriving at those stadiums to the hotels, the whole UK vibe, it showed me women’s rugby is massive there. The giant is awakened in South Africa, but it’s already there in the UK. When the bus stopped at those stadiums, it felt like my Springbok days with the men’s team, crowds, chanting, you couldn’t get out of the bus! These girls had never seen anything like that in their lives. A lot of them found it a bit overwhelming, but they became instant heroes. It was something special.Linda van Tilburg (09:48)So, Swys, what’s next for you? You’ve had an amazing career, Griquas, Lions, Springboks, and now women’s rugby. What’s the plan?Swys de Bruin (10:01)That’s in God’s hands, Linda, not mine. But as far as we can control it, I’ve been offered to carry on to the next World Cup. We’re just sorting out the little details now. The original plan was for me to coach for SA Rugby, Craven Week, the sevens, all the teams under Rassie’s auspices, playing a mentor role. But that’s been put aside now, and it’s me and women’s rugby again with my coaching staff. We’re planning to make the product better in South Africa first. You can’t have one team like the Blue Bulls getting all the best players and beating everyone by 70 or 80 points. It’s not balanced, they don’t learn to defend properly. Most of our national team comes from there, so we need strength-versus-strength in our domestic game.We’re looking at six professional teams, spreading the talent evenly, like scrum-halves across all unions, not just with the Bulls. This morning, they promised me again that now we’re in the top eight, we’ll get more competitive games. You can’t improve if you don’t play the best regularly. The talent is here, the passion, the faith, the support, the media, it’s all beyond what we could’ve dreamed. We just need to get the domestic competition right and get good international exposure.Linda van Tilburg (12:10)What about the money? Some players, like Nomsa Mokwai, told us in interviews they still have day jobs. What about sponsorships for these women?Swys de Bruin (12:24)That’s not my department, Linda, but SA Rugby and sponsors like FNB are brilliant with this. They’ve seen what this team can do, and they’re keen to put their money behind the right product. I’m excited to see what’s going to happen, it’s not going to be overnight. The World Cup triggered everything, showed everyone what’s possible, but now the big trick is sustaining it. The next World Cup is in four years, and we’re already thinking about what we’ll do then. Last year, I wanted to play France or England, but we weren’t strong enough. They gave us their under-21s or Spain instead. Now, they’ve promised we’re barking with the big dogs, and we’ll get more international games. Sponsors want that too, they don’t want Mickey Mouse games or set-ups. If we play top-eight teams, the sponsors will jump in for sure; they’ve said it already.Linda van Tilburg (14:05)Some of your players are a bit older. Do you need to build a new, younger team for the next four years?Swys de Bruin (14:15)Ja, for sure. Next week, I’m heading to the national under-21 tournament in Joburg. Most of our squad, 99%, can go to another World Cup, except maybe our captain, who might move on; I don’t want to name names now. But we’ve got to bring in youngsters, especially for speed. We’re strong in the physical stuff, mauling, scrumming, tackling, we’re solid. But when the game opens up, you need that skill set out wide, that pure pace. There’s no replacement for real speed with a bit of ball sense. We’ve got a few fast girls, but we need more. We’re looking at other codes, athletics, netball, hockey, because it’s not just speed, it’s speed plus ball skills. There are already girls we’re eyeing to join the squad and make it stronger, but I won’t spill all the beans now.Linda van Tilburg (15:51)So, you’re spotting sprinters in the street and saying, “That one looks fast, let’s see if she can catch a ball”?Swys de Bruin (15:57)Haha, ja, exactly! I was driving with my wife the other day, saw a girl running past, and I said, “Stop her, let’s sign her up!” You spot speed at the grocery store, man. Players like Denel Lochner or Nadine Roos, they’re netballers, so versatile, even jumping in line-outs, playing anywhere. We need a few more like them, for sure. If we get that right, the sky’s the limit, I promise you.Linda van Tilburg (16:41)My family is rugby crazy. When they were watching, they were looking at the tackles and saying, “Can women be tackled like that?” So, what’s your experience? Women aren’t sissies, are they?Swys de Bruin (16:54)Linda, I’ve learned something huge through this. They say behind every man is a woman, but I don’t know why she’s behind, she should be in front! Women are so tough, so relentless. They never moan. In men’s Super Rugby, by week three, guys are moaning about the food, this, that, everything. If a man gets the flu, he’s basically dying. A woman? It’s just a sneeze, no big deal. Their pain threshold amazed me. In five weeks, we had no injuries, just one or two bumps and bruises. I said to the doctor and medical team, “You guys are unreal!” With a men’s team, by week three or four, you’ve got six to ten guys in a little hospital next to the field, getting treated. With the girls, it was just another miracle.They see everything as a privilege. Every time they got off the bus, they’d thank the driver, “Thank you, sir, thank you, Alan, have a nice day.” I thought, “Hell, you guys are different, special.” They don’t feel entitled. My coaching philosophy is built on seven principles. Six are rugby, go-forward, momentum, pressure, all that. The seventh is the value system: trust, sisterhood, supporting each other. If the water carrier brings water, they give it to their mate first. That serving mentality, I love it. The girls make me and my coaches feel special. They’ll say, “Thanks, coach, what a great session, lekker!” Always high-fives, always positive. That spirit rubs off, and I wish more men’s teams could get that right.Back to your question about toughness, I could write a book on it! Initially, I tried to coach them, “Girls, pause with your eyes, soft hands, lean forward.” No way, they want the ball, they want to run, they want to hit! They love the physical side of rugby; they thrive on it. I’ll never underestimate them again.

SA’s women’s rugby team “are barking with the big dogs now” – Head coach Swys de Bruin

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