Ali Bacher on SA Cricket’s greatest all rounders; with business and leadership lessons thrown in

In broadcasting, once in a while you get a really special opportunity. Today was one of them. I’ve met Ali Bacher at various times – mostly when my brief spell in banking put me in charge of one of the country’s biggest sports sponsorship budgets. But never before had the opportunity presented itself to talk to Ali about Ali. And his passion. Which, obviously, is cricket. It was a joy. One of the most successful cricket captains ever born, Ali served his sport as an administrator during the critical decades running up to and after 1994. His long-term thinking on investing in cricket development in previously disadvantaged communities – long before it was popular – has generated enormous dividends. Our interview today focused on his new book, Jacques Kallis and 12 other great South African all-rounders. Co-authored with David Williams, a talented writer and fellow anchor at  CNBC Africa, Ali told me off air the two of them saw each other virtually every day during the past seven months. Ali would do interviews with the subjects and share his endless anecdotes with Williams who was responsible for writing. They put their heads together to check that it all came out right, and then move onto the next of the 13 subjects. Bacher says he did the same thing years ago with the late Rodney Hartman, one of the finest sports writers produced by SA.  I haven’t read the fruit of that partnership. But the Bacher/Williams one has produced a peach. A riveting read, full of fascinating unique stories that only an insider would know. And in cricket, there’s no better insider than the 70 year old medical doctor who has served his country so well both on and off the field.  And still does. Including as chairman of the HIV/Aids NGO Right To Care. – AH

Watch my full interview with Ali Bacher on CNBC Africa Power Lunch by clicking here. 

A slightly younger version of the man who graced our studios today - South Africa's "Mr Cricket" Ali Bacher
A somewhat younger version of the man who graced our studios today – South Africa’s “Mr Cricket”, Ali Bacher

ALEC HOGG: Former South African Test Captain, Ali Bacher, has lauded South African cricket’s all-rounders and together with David Williams has written a book about the country producing more great all-rounders than any other Test-playing country in the world. He’s with us in the studio to discuss this further, and to actually pull out a business/leadership angle in all of this. Ali, lovely to have you in the studio with us.

ALI BACHER: Thank you.

ALEC HOGG: To elaborate maybe a little bit more; the book was about 13 great South African all-rounders but ranked scientifically. It isn’t a thumb-suck as one often sees.

ALI BACHER: We could be open to criticism. We don’t think so. There’s a lot of stats to prove the validity of our choice, but I’m pretty certain those are the best 13 that have been produced in this country. We’re not talking about wicketkeeper/batsmen, but there’s something else unique in South African cricket. In 1970 I was privileged to captain South Africa. We had four all-rounders in the one team: Eddie Barlow, Tiger Lance, Mike Proctor and Trevor Goddard. The late Hansie Cronje in the 1990’s had Brian McMillan, Shaun Pollock, Lance Klusener and Jacques Kallis. Now other than the Australians maybe in the 50’s when they had Alan Davidson, Richie Benno, Slasher Mackay and early on Keith Miller on the same team I know of no other country who had so many great all-rounders in the same team. If you look at England Ian Botham was a giant – only one on the team. West Indies – only Garfield Sobers. So not only have we produced great all-rounders but we have a tendency to produce them at the same time.

ALEC HOGG: Why did South Africa do that?

ALI BACHER: I can’t answer that. But what a blessing as a Captain. You end up playing with 13 players. When Australia came here in the late 50’s, we were tipped to beat them – Ian Craig’s team, because we had a very good series against England in South Africa – we drew 2-2. We should have won that series but we lost 3-0. I was just starting off my career and I remember going on a train with Peter Heine and saying to him ‘Peter, why did we lose 3-0?’ He says ‘Ali, it was very simple’ because we had Neil Adcock, Peter Heine,  Trevor Goddard and Hugh Tayfield we’d have them 16/4 and then comes Richie Benaud – 7, Alan Davidson – 8, Slasher Mackay – 9 and they’d take it through to 300’. That’s the impact all-rounders can have on the outcome of any Test match.

ALEC HOGG: It’s interesting to bring it to a business scenario because in business, chief executives who have been great have often also been all-rounders. They’ve been highly competitive people who start their own businesses and yet the common wisdom – if you like – is get specialists.

ALI BACHER:  I think in the cricketing sense, not the business sense. Versatility, the ability to bat and bowl and to be a great fielder; all those are happening today. Purely just to bat and not be able to field, to be a wicketkeeper and bat number 11, to bat number 9 when you can’t bat and then you can be a great bowler is not part of the world cricket today.

ALEC HOGG: It’s extraordinary, though. Of the long list of the best in the world over this period; of the top 14 I counted six South Africans. Six of the top 14 all-rounders of all time are from this country. It’s got to say something about the genes or the makeup of this nation.

ALI BACHER: Well, this is a great cricketing country. It’s got great culture. It’s been hurt greatly by Apartheid. It could have been even a lot better. I think the strong point is the cricketing schools; even today they are producing the great cricketers. Kind Edward, St. Stithians, Affies, Grey College, Grey High School. Seventy years ago they produced the cricketers and they are continuing to produce the cricketers.

ALEC HOGG: Ali, why are so many of these all-rounders leaders? Of the 13 featured in the book, seven of them were Captains. Is it because they’re so good that the rest of the guys said ‘you take the mantle’?

ALI BACHER: I think there are two types: those that lead by inspiration and by motivation. Eddie Barlow was like that. He was effervescent, he was bubbly and he was motivating to the team. And then the others who lead purely by example; they’re upfront and they excel. Shaun Pollock was like that, Trevor Goddard and certainly Clive Rice was that. Clive Rice is very, very unlucky because he’s the only one of those 13 that never played one Test game. When I interviewed Mike Proctor in Durban and I asked him about Clive Rice, he said, ‘given the opportunity to play Test Cricket at the highest level, he would have been one of the greatest all-rounders of all time’.

ALEC HOGG: Well, it’s interesting to unpack all of that. It is a fantastic book. I don’t say that often. But it’s one of those that, even when I was desperately tired last night, I couldn’t put down.

ALI BACHER: Thank you.

ALEC HOGG: And really well done on that. But an omission for me though, was Hansie Cronjé. Is that a reflection of what happened to him?

ALI BACHER: No, not at all. I think Hansie was a batsman who could bowl 4th change /5th change. He could not have gotten into a Test team purely on his bowling. All those cricketers (featured in the book); all of them could have gotten in either as a batsman or as a bowler alone. Hansie couldn’t have. He was a good batsman. He averaged about 38 in Test cricket. You could never pick a Test team where he’d be your 3rd seamer with a three bowler attack.

ALEC HOGG: Which is very different to the man that you’ve got on the cover – Jacques Kallis. Interesting to see that Jacques is the number two of all time – and only just behind Gary Sobers.

ALI BACHER: Very importantly, for SuperSport I interviewed Steve Waugh during the second Ashes Test match at Lords recently and I asked him about Jacques. He said to me ‘one of the greatest cricketers of all time’ and I said ‘Steve, of all time?’ ‘Yes.’ His statistics – and you can’t only go on statistics – are comparable to the great Sir Garfield Sobers. But I think Jacques would be the first to acknowledge that the greatest cricketer of all time is Gary Sobers. There can be no question about it.

ALEC HOGG: And you’ve got him (Sobers) to write the foreword for your book.

ALI BACHER:  I’ve known him a long time. We’re great friends. I phoned him. He was only too happy to do it. I first met him in Rhodesia. There was a double wicket competition. He got into a lot of trouble in the 70’s. He was my partner. I’m told by Lee Irvine who was in the field, that when I bowled my first ball – because I couldn’t bowl my granddaughter out – Gary had a look at me from behind me at mid-off and he burst out laughing.

ALEC HOGG: And you’ve been friends for all those years?

ALI BACHER: Terrific. I’m going to London in two weeks’ time, to be with him again. He’s always been a great friend of South African cricket and a great friend of mine and he loved Tiger Lance. When he came to South Africa he’d phone me; ‘what’s Tiger’s phone number?’

ALEC HOGG: There’s a great chapter there about Tiger Lance as well. I don’t want to give away too much but I have to ask you this question from my colleague in Cape Town Lindsay Williams. He asks “What happened to Ali’s Magic?” the joint venture you had with Natie Kirsh.

ALI BACHER: Ali’s Magic Dishwasher. It was a crazy story. 1979, out of nowhere, I’m in business for three years. We’re doing volumes. The margins are so tight. We’re making no money. And then we came up with this magic dishwasher. Evidently, one of the big global companies saw us as opposition. They had a trademark. We had to go to court so it became Ali’s Magic Dishwasher. But at the end of the day that business is volume, volume, volume, no margins, you just turned money over and you didn’t make any profit. After about three years Natie came to me and said ‘listen, your factory is obsolete’. When I think back on that factory, the trade unions would have closed it down in three minutes. There was another great story. Let me tell you about this. We also used to sell vinegar to Chipkins (now part of Bidvest) five litre vinegar for 87 cents. Can you imagine how many of these five litre cans you’ve got to put in a truck to get some volume? I eventually became the salesperson. There was a lady doing the sales at Chipkins and we hadn’t got an order for about three weeks so I phoned her and asked ‘what’s wrong?’ ‘You’re out priced’. I said ‘what do you mean?’

ALEC HOGG: At 87 cents?

ALI BACHER: ‘We can now get it for 85 cents’. I made my decision there and then. ‘Natie, cheers. Let’s sell this business. I’m going off’.

ALEC HOGG: Ali, lovely talking to you. And the book is great. It really is.

Visited 250 times, 2 visit(s) today