Many are surprised at the incredible success which many Afrikaners have made in business. Iâm not among them. A Calvinist culture makes them well suited to an endeavour which rewards honesty, loyalty, hard work and single-minded focus. Not to forget the McGyver-like attribute that comes embedded in a people who believe ân Boer maak n plan.â As youâll hear in this podcast, Jacques Basson is a successful entrepreneur in the UK service industry. But heâs spotted an emerging new opportunity in podcasting and has applied his curiosity and experience to build a dedicated audience. – Alec Hogg
Welcome to the BizNews podcast, Iâm Alec Hogg. Well, what a small world. I met fellow South African, Jacques Basson through a PR lady who mailed me from her office in East London, thatâs the one in the Eastern Cape in South Africa, not the UK. Jacques lives in Northwest London in the UK and Iâm in Surrey to the Southwest. We met up in a coffee shop in the centre of this great city in Covent Garden, thatâs in part of a complex thatâs owned, as it happens, by a company thatâs listed in the Johannesburg Stock Exchange. Well, back to Jacques, heâs in his early forties and typical of a new breed of Afrikaner entrepreneurs who are breaking the old stereotypes. Here’s Jacques’s story which begins with me asking him âWhy are you investing so much of your time in this new podcasting revolution?â
Well, Alec I think for me personally itâs my go-to medium. I enjoy listening to it, I can run and listen, I can listen in the car, so itâs very mobile, I think itâs very relevant, and Iâm excited about where itâs going, so for me itâs very intriguing that itâs such a young digital medium and I thought this is something that I need to take a closer look at for the South African market. Itâs the prime digital real estate of the future and I thought it would be interesting to see what happens behind the scenes so to speak and the mechanics behind it.
Whatâs it called in Afrikaans?
âKlipkouersâ, the direct translation is a rock eater, but of course, for the guys that know âklipkouersâ is Afrikaans slang, which in essence is grit, itâs seeing things through, you know itâs not giving up; itâs slow and steady wins the raceâ type things.
Itâs kind of âvasbytâ.
âVasbytâ exactly, thatâs an even better word.
South African Changemakers being showcased by Jacques Basson. Interested in entrepreneurship? Dig in! #Afrikaans https://t.co/1h2hqJ9ZL9
— Jacqui MackwayWilson (@GoSocialSA) August 5, 2016
Over the past year youâve interviewed dozens of people, but specifically looking at a niche, first of all in Afrikaans and secondly in a niche of a certain kind of person.
Absolutely, obviously being a businessman, for me it was the go-to industry so to speak or sector and I think what bugs me in a big way over the years is the lack of practical business content, especially for guys out there. Iâm always looking for a nugget, that one learning how I can apply in my own business and of course I think there are many guys, the wanna-be entrepreneurs as they call them or the guys who are starting out that want practical advice, so that was the main thing for me. Then from there it was a matter of, letâs see if we can add an international flavour to it.
That was very important because many companies in South Africa, the guys I speak to, the girls I speak to, I think they realise the importance of earning foreign currency, so yes theyâre doing well in the South African market, but they need to almost get away from earning in Rands in many ways because of the uncertainties that go with it. That gave me another opportunity to go and hunt down these Afrikaner entrepreneurs across countries and again because how we do things in the UK is different from the Aussies, the Americans, and from the South Africans, so itâs getting guys in the South African market exposure to practical business advice, but most importantly itâs making them aware and giving them access to these international entrepreneurs.
Who are the interesting guys that youâve met?
I think bigger is hot always better, but I have to single out a guy like Louis van der Watt from Atterbury and the reason other than the fact that theyâve just built The Mall of Africa, which obviously, is the biggest. I was actually in Pretoria at the time; there was a traffic jam on opening day. Thatâs pretty impressive, but itâs also how theyâve expanded into Eastern Europe. The Eastern Europeans are at a young mall culture, so as far as the scope there, itâs phenomenal. They own many malls in Greece and all of that, so itâs fascinating to see this Afrikaans, Pretoria-based business thatâs making significant waves on an international level and still in South Africa, itâs not that theyâre backing down.
Something else which really stood out for me was a guy like Rohan Vos of Rovos Rail and why he stood out, other than the fact that they have these phenomenal luxury trains which are on par with the best in the world, is that Ruan earns 95 percent of their income from an international market, so again, the only thing they rely on in South Africa is the railway itself or the tracks which is a challenge in many ways, but itâs incredible, the successful company that earns the bulk of their money in foreign currency, so those are definitely two guys that stood out in a big way.
What I like about your podcast is, itâs exciting, it gives hope, you follow a formula that is easy to understand and not only can one listen, but you also can read it, which would give greater access, but where did this all come from? You mentioned earlier that you yourself are an entrepreneur.
I think itâs a combination of things, Alec. Number one, we live in the digital age, so I think it was important for me to really engage in a way that, to lead by example so to speak, to say âListen, if youâre going to tackle a new business, a new opportunity, you canât go wrong going digital because then it allows you to tap into a global audienceâ. That to me was always very important, but also it is niche, so I think again not to give you a business 101 lesson or try to give you a lesson here, but the thing is Iâm all for niche and thatâs one thing bigger.
I think many out there big is pretty, in the sense that we think the Richard Bransonâs of the world, all these guys, they get all the attention and the âearâ so to speak, but ultimately itâs the niche businesses where the magicâs at, itâs where the high margins are, itâs where you can tap into a global market especially if itâs digital, I think, so for me that was important. I said âOkay, podcasts is niche, itâs something new, business podcasts takes it another level and if weâre going to chuck in a bit of Afrikaans now weâre sitting with almost three levels deep niche-wiseâ and I think to me that made sense, that if I were to give this a chance to explore it and give it a chance to success, it had to be niche, niche, niche, so to speak.
Itâs interesting too that you have a boy from the Free State who is sitting in London doing Afrikaans podcasts for presumably a high percentage of the Afrikaner market in South Africa, but also the Diaspora.
Yes, you know itâs one of those things that, earlier in the year I was in Pretoria for a few months and I almost felt there are moments where, if Iâm brutally honest, you feel like Iâm sitting in the UK and Iâm preaching and going along and what have you. Then my wife reminds me that if it wasnât for the fact that I sat in the international market and I thought differently, I donât think this would have come about, so I think the good thing about all of this is that I have been removed from, Iâm not too close to the South African market, so I can see the opportunities a bit clearer to see where things are moving towards, so Iâm grateful that Iâm here and of course itâs the international connections, I think thatâs the key thing. Itâs harder if youâre in South Africa, especially as a local SME, where do you start? Itâs like me saying to a guy in South Africa now, âHey, come and start a business here in the UKâ, where do you start.
It gives you that exposure as well, to new ideas and different things. What about your own story, how long have you been in the UK and what have you been doing here?
In January itâs 13 years, but you know weâve always joked, said âItâs 13 years temporarilyâ and it is. Itâs just incredible how the time has flown. I started my business (Van Brock, itâs a commercial cleaning business), 9 years ago and I think at the time cleaning found me. I never envisaged that, I always called it a mop and bucket businessâ, but it took me probably a year and a half or so to realise that thereâs an opportunity to take this mop and bucket industry and really turn it on its head and the way we market, the way we communicate with our customers, the way we clean and ultimately itâs about marketing and people I find, nine years later and itâs been a tremendous adventure.
At the same time, four years ago, I formed a joint venture in Texas, in Austin with another commercial cleaning business and that was an incredible adventure and journey in itself, starting from scratch in a market where I didnât even know how much VAT these guys charged and they have different tax systems and all of that. That I think, again added to that international flavour thatâs always been important for me and to try and give that to the South African market, the entrepreneurs over there.
So you got your entrepreneurial genes from somewhere. Is your family interested in business, did you talk about it around the table?
Yes, my folks were involved early in the eighties, I donât know for the guys and girls out there, Parys in the Free State, we had, when the N1 still ran through there, we had the Moulin Rouge Roadhouse and I remember as a ten-year-old I didnât understand what this Moulin Rouge was. I only later on realised it was the oldest strip club in the world, but anyway Moulin Rouge was, in the South African context a roadhouse and obviously thatâs the first exposure I got to business.
What were you doing there, serving?
At that age, no I think I was eating more than anything else. It was a self-serve and I was growing my waistline, I think thatâs what I was doing, but later on in the nineties I was in my fourth year at university and my folks, at that stage it was CafĂ© Dulce, which is now I think Dulce CafĂ©, I think Kobus Wiese, Wiesenhofâs Group acquired them a while back, but that was the start of Mugg & Bean as a matter of fact. These guys were one step of Mugg & Bean and itâs always interesting, I remember Dulce had 20 outlets at the time and Mugg & Bean was starting out and guess who is left, who has really made massive strides, but yes, so I was actively involved in the business there and as a student, two months holiday, so there I served. I was involved behind the scenes and all of that, so I really got my hands dirty, so to speak.
Is that important for someone in a business, an entrepreneur to actually know where every nut and bolt goes?
I think itâs critical. To give you an example, I always look back at how my career started. Again, I got involved, I wanted to do corporate after University and I gave myself, I always said itâs a ten-year plan, I want to get my training and I guess ignorantly in a way thought Iâm going to get the proper preparation for entrepreneurship spending time with big corporates, but the one company that I will always single out is Coca-Cola. I was recruited into their managerial development programme in 1999, it was called [Kwesile? 0:12:02.6] at the time. We were only 18 people and what Coca-Cola did was; we were exposed to what was called a questionnaire-driven field assignment.
We would literally do some classroom training, they would split us all up, and they would chuck you into a Coca-Cola bottler. I spent eight weeks there and it would say to me âGo spend a week in the lab and every day this is the question youâre going to ask this person. The next week yourâe going to spend with the production managerâ, so till this day, 18 years later I can tell you exactly what happens in the Coca-Cola system, from the production, how much sugar water goes into it and itâs all stuck in my head because I was exposed to the practical aspect of running that business. Thus, I canât emphasise that enough, that the only way to learn is to get your hands dirty.
It also helps you ask the right questions of the entrepreneurs that you are now interviewing.
Absolutely, as I said before, for me itâs important to lead by example, so I think itâs critical that I can extract information. Yes, the questions are the same, but number one, it gives us structure and of course it allows us to quantify the data, which is important because I need to and I want to identify trends which I can feed back to the listeners and the readers and say âHey, you know if 50 guys say X or theyâve made this type of mistake or this is their sales and marketing strategy, you need to pay attentionâ.
Thatâs a big part of it, but yes, of course at the end of the day there is an entertainment aspect to it and thatâs me having a cup of coffee so to speak where I can extract information because of my practical experience, which I guess a lot of guys out there, whether it be a journalist that just purely is generating that content, thereâs not a deeper understanding of the business or being able to engage or understand immediately about this type of industry and then digging deeper during the interview.
Jacques, itâs been a very interesting journey for Afrikaans people in particular in South Africa, because in the old South Africa they were encouraged to go into academics or to go into the public service and in the new South Africa, of course, theyâve taken to entrepreneurship like ducks to water. Itâs an incredible success story if you have a look at the Christo Wieseâs, the Marcus Joosteâs, the Jannie Moutonâs and we could go on all day. Why do you think that is, why do you think it is that itâs almost like Afrikaans-speaking South Africans have found that business really works for them and particularly self-employment?
I think speaking to some of these guys, the Jannie Moutonâs, and these guys; a lot of them were entrepreneurs in the old regime in a way, so itâs a different animal. So letâs talk about the younger entrepreneurs or the younger SMEâs that kick-started around 1994, 1995. Many of them were retrenched and they were really chucked into the deep end, and even now if I look at what in South Africa, entrepreneurship is alive and well, but itâs not to the extent that one would think, especially amongst the Afrikaners because the golden handcuffs, there are still many professional Afrikaners out there and I find thereâs not enough entrepreneurs.
As a matter of fact, I was surprised that, one of the learnings for me was entrepreneurship is not as active as it should be, which tells me the pain is not as big as everybody thinks it is because the golden handcuffs still do the talking. So a lot of the dynamic businesses that Iâve seen, it was purely the guys were made redundant or they were chucked into the deep and whatever, they were fired and it was not okay, sink or swim and thatâs where the magic happened. At the moment, I think the heat in the kitchen needs to increase before weâll see some drastic increase in activity, I think especially amongst the Afrikaners.
What has been interesting is when people have left South Africa and gone into various parts of the world where theyâve had to become self-employed. You talk to quite a few of those people and quite a few are successful.
Yes, and again itâs the culture. I think you touched on something very important. The Afrikaner is historically a political animal. Back in the day the ambition was to become the prime minister, you know entrepreneurship was not alive and well and again, not going to political conversation, but back in the old way of doing things also there was very much a closed circuit in a way. I think even coming to the UK where 13 years ago and self-employment, people doing their own thing, youâre more confronted by it, itâs more normal than not and I think that changes the way, I think even the way in Australia, America, itâs not a sink or swim scenario, itâs a matter of, itâs normal to do your own thing, itâs not weird and of course the economy and the government allows for that, makes it easy for you to engage.
It was very interesting talking earlier before we put the microphone on where you have still very warm feelings towards South Africa, youâre even thinking of maybe of going back and relocating. Is this a common them amongst people of your age?
Itâs a great question. Are people returning? Yes, there are people returning. This year alone I have two friends that have returned. I canât say; it depends on what drives you back. I find that a big driving factor is friends and family, youâre very isolated, very alone and I find that especially where the first grandchild is born, there is a lot of pressure to go back, but then again there are many that do stay, so itâs not a matter of⊠I donât know what the exact percentage is, but I would say all in all many donât go back, theyâre still stuck, their children are in school. I think I mentioned to you earlier, the children become British in a way and itâs almost like theyâve become more British by default, which right or wrong, I canât say.
Another interesting aspect Iâd like you just to touch on briefly is that you said in Texas thereâs an alive and well and thriving Afrikaans community.
Absolutely, I would say in comparison with the UK, well thereâs no comparison. The times Iâve been there I remember, Iâll give you a classic example and this is one of many, the one weekend I was in Houston, I was staying at close friends and we were off to, not only a braai, they were making boerewors in their garage and there were four Sasol expats there making boerewors, braaing the boerewors and even their teenage daughter, she was fluent in Afrikaans. They had been there for 12, 13 years, so itâs fascinating and you even see it in the children. I find it very intriguing that in the UK, as I mentioned earlier, the kids go to school, of course, itâs a peer-to-peer, they end up English, but in Texas, those kids are also exposed to the Texans and they roll, of course they have this cute rolling accent, but they speak Afrikaans and itâs alive and well, so itâs two extremes in a way, I canât explain it.
Just to close off with âklipkouersâ also means people who have a tough time, itâs not easy to do it. Does it have to be that way in entrepreneurship; do you have to go through the fire to be successful?
Itâs the only way you learn. Unfortunately, itâs making mistakes and in the making mistakes is unfortunately mistakes is a bad word, but itâs learning, I think itâs constantly learning. Forget about the word âmistakeâ and the only way youâre going to learn is by bumping your head. So definitely thereâs an element, but I think âklipkouersâ, I remember one guy said to me, he doesnât like the name âklipkouersâ, itâs negative and I said âBut you know itâs not about that. I think the Afrikaner at the moment and even more so, everybody is a âklipkouerâ because itâs not straight forward for the Afrikaner in South Africa and yes, youâre going to have to bump your head, you have to learn and thatâs the only way to learn and move forward and to make a future for you and your family.
Entrepreneurskap is vir jĂłu, Klipkouers https://t.co/rrH6CZAWgo #entrepreneurs #Afrikaans #potgooi #podcast pic.twitter.com/f8KKezL6Dw
— Jacques Basson (@klipkouers) December 13, 2016
Also to look at things differently and find hope in places that you might not have considered.
Absolutely, I think one of the articles that I read, where you said such an important thing that entrepreneurship is not for us to define boundaries, itâs to operate within the boundariesâ and thatâs even the positive, thatâs the light and thatâs even for me the option considering the fact going back, I think the whole thing with BEE and Iâve said this to many people, I think itâs the biggest business opportunity Iâve ever seen, BEE. Either you can look at it from our poor old Afrikaners, whatever, poor old white people, or you can see it for what it is, this is a hell of a business opportunity and that gets me excited, but itâs operating within that framework, it is what it is, youâre not going to change it and itâs actually getting worse, but itâs working within that framework.
I have to ask you, how is it a business opportunity?
Again, itâs a great question, so itâs nowhere in the world, I mean if you look at letâs say one of the boxes that needs to be ticked; itâs allocating a percentage of payroll to training. Nowhere in the world does a government force accompany to spend X on training, which means if the law forces a company to spend money, it means you just have to position yourself in that supply chain to scoop the money. Iâm oversimplifying, but the bottom-line is companies have to spend money and many companies just want to tick a box, but if youâre going to go one step further, Iâll give you another example.
I spoke to a guy at a medium-sized marketing agency in South Africa, they have to spend, I think itâs two or three percent of payroll, they canât find proper candidates for their agency because the guys are not trained properly or thereâs no practical training out there, so they have these rookies that come in that cause problems. Now theyâre taking that spend, which they have to spend and theyâre creating their own training company, which they own 49 percent of. Suddenly that expense becomes an investment and by the way, now theyâre going to train up those guys for other marketing agencies and for themselves, so thatâs a classic example of additional opportunities that are created versus âOh, I have to spend this money now and itâs only an expenseâ.
