PA’s Cilliers on Joburg by-election win, thrashing ANC, sending message to DA

Alec Hogg: Looking back at the previous election in 2021, it seems that you received more votes this time around. Ward 7 in Johannesburg has been a highly contested metro. While Action SA performed well and doubled their votes, they still fell behind the Patriotic Alliance. The ANC, on the other hand, saw their vote halved, and the DA struggled significantly. There seems to be an intriguing story behind these numbers. Can we discuss the candidates, particularly your candidate? Was she exceptionally strong?

Charles Cilliers: Absolutely, Alec. I've known Lois (Simonse, the winning candidate) for quite some time now, and she is truly remarkable. She has always been an active volunteer for the PA, dedicating herself to serving the people. She is well-loved within the community, and it was an obvious choice for us to nominate her as our candidate. Lois worked tirelessly, running a positive campaign focused on service rather than disparaging others. She approached the campaign with a smile and tremendous dedication. I have no doubt she will be an excellent counselor.

Alec Hogg: Could you provide some insights into the demographics of that area?

Charles Cilliers: Certainly. Ennerdale is predominantly a coloured community, while Miriteng is a smaller, primarily African black community. Fintown, on the other hand, has traditionally been an ANC stronghold, also with a significant African black population. The demographics are roughly 50-50, although some may argue it leans slightly one way or the other. The coloured community is prominent, which explains the substantial presence of the PA. However, we also invested significant effort in Fintown and Miriteng, where we notably increased our share of the vote. Action SA also made inroads and ate into the ANC's support.

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Alec Hogg: It's intriguing to witness such changes in these traditionally ANC-dominated communities. Do you believe this outcome is indicative of a larger trend or a one-off occurrence?

Charles Cilliers: I find it a fascinating situation, Alec. We came remarkably close to winning Ward 7 twice before. In a previous by-election, we narrowly missed out, and in 2021, we lost by fewer than 400 votes. We attributed the difference then not so much to the ANC itself but rather to the candidate, Amelia Zahmer. Her story is compelling, and it would be worth interviewing her as well. After much prayer and discussion with her family, Amelia, a deeply spiritual woman, decided earlier this year that her future lies with the PA. Her decision to commit herself to the PA for life shook the foundations of that wall. We always felt that defeating the ANC was possible, but it was incredibly challenging to beat the ANC with someone like Amelia leading their campaign. Having her join the PA, where she culturally fits so naturally, made the task for the ANC virtually insurmountable. No one was going to stop us. When you combine Amelia's force with the strength of the PA, victory became inevitable. Of course, we didn't take anything for granted and worked exceptionally hard, but in our hearts, we knew we were going to win this battle. It was a foregone conclusion.

Alec Hogg: With the addition of another counselor, the total in Johannesburg now stands at 270, with the Patriotic Alliance going from 8 to 9 counselors and the ANC decreasing by one. Do you think this change will have any significant impact?

Charles Cilliers: I don't believe it will bring about significant changes. Our current coalition already enjoys a comfortable majority, allowing us to pass budgets and carry out our responsibilities effectively. However, it does strengthen the position of the PA within any coalition, whether it involves the ANC or another party. Although it may seem like a small difference, there is a notable shift in the balance of power between eight and nine councillors. Looking ahead, we have a genuine chance of reaching 11 councillors within the next few months. We have an excellent candidate lined up for the upcoming Westbury by-election, which we should be able to win. Additionally, I hope we can make another attempt at Ward 68. So, having 11 councillors for the PA in Johannesburg is a realistic possibility, perhaps even before the next national election.

Alec Hogg: According to my research, this is the second by-election that the Patriotic Alliance has won since the November 2021 Local Government elections. The previous one took place in Matzikama, Western Cape, where you managed to secure a victory with less than 30% of the vote due to the presence of multiple candidates. However, this could have been your fourth victory if you had joined forces with the DA. In the Swellendam vote, the PA received 766 votes, the DA 736 votes, making a total of 1500. However, the ANC won the ward with 910 votes. Similarly, in Kou-kamma, the PA received 791 votes, the DA 254 votes, totaling approximately 1150. Once again, the ANC secured victory due to the split vote, with 978. Charles, is there a possibility for the PA and the DA to come together and work collaboratively, or is the PA determined to prioritize what is best for itself, even if it means the ANC remains in power?

Charles Cilliers: Indeed, we have won a few by-elections. In fact, our first by-election victory was in 2020 in Ward 68. However, focusing on the post-2021 period, the most recent electoral cycle, we have achieved notable success. Winning the ward in Kensington, Cape Town was a significant achievement for us. It's crucial to understand that we were not directly contesting the DA in that ward. They didn't put up a strong campaign. What transpired in Ward 7 in Joburg yesterday is something the DA needs to deeply reflect upon.

We have always maintained that we are not natural enemies with any party and are willing to collaborate with anyone, including the DA. However, what unfolded can only be described as self-destruction on their part. Their candidate Randell Markgraaff, withdrew, leading them to take down all their posters in Ward 7. The DA came up with an outlandish theory that Gayton McKenzie or someone from the PA had bribed this individual with five million Rand to step down. Such a notion is absurd, given that we were on track to win that ward comfortably, with or without the DA's involvement. It doesn't make sense to pay a competing councilor such a significant amount just to withdraw. The truth is, he felt betrayed by the DA. They had already conceded that they had no realistic chance of winning Ward 7, which they never really had in the first place. But what they desired was for the ANC to either win or retain the ward, as the thought of the PA winning yet another ward was unthinkable to them. They are doing everything possible to hinder the PA's progress because we are currently their biggest challenge. The disgruntled counselor was appalled at being told to ensure that the PA doesn't win, even if it means the ANC does. He couldn't be part of such a scheme and chose to withdraw. He did have a meeting with Gayton to convey this message, and while we haven't made any promises to him or his wife, I believe they will join the PA, and we would welcome them because he is a good person who resigned for ethical reasons.

This brings me to your question regarding the issue between us and the DA, which primarily stems from the DA's side. They are using every means at their disposal to vilify the PA. They have engaged in a peculiar campaign, currently organising a march in the central Karoo to protest the money that Gayton raised for repairing various infrastructure elements such as toilets and pools. They have manufactured a baseless story, propagated by News24, suggesting that Gayton misappropriated the funds. They now want him to reimburse the money, despite every single donor being satisfied with the results they witnessed. They saw the repairs done, the pools fixed, and nearly 100 flushing toilets installed. The DA's attempt to slow our progress in order to maintain a majority in next year's Western Cape elections is nothing more than manufactured propaganda. Negative campaigning doesn't work, as ActionSA discovered when they put up posters stating, "Vote PA, get ANC." These posters were concentrated in areas where we received an overwhelming 80-90% share of the vote. I even messaged Michael Baumont from ActionSA to express gratitude for inadvertently generating attention for us. Using other parties' names in campaign posters only serves to draw attention to those parties. It's a senseless approach in my opinion. The DA needs to accept that we are here to stay, and their attempts to smear us will not make us disappear.

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Alec Hogg: It's fascinating to discuss the difference between positive campaigning and negative campaigning. Negative campaigning has historically been effective in South African politics, shaping opinions and influencing thoughts. However, given the current state of our country, we are in desperate need of hope as we look towards the future. Perhaps the kind of positive message you mentioned didn't resonate in Ward 7. It's important to remember that by-elections only provide small glimpses and snapshots of the overall political landscape. When we step back and take a neutral perspective, we can see that both ActionSA and the PA are performing well in urban areas, while the DA is also strong in these regions. However, in rural areas, the ANC appears to be making a comeback. When analyzing these by-election results, what are your thoughts on this trend? Additionally, what would be your ideal scenario for South Africa to achieve a new government in 2024 that can steer the country away from a destructive socialist economic path?

Charles Cilliers: Indeed, there are numerous issues to consider in this context. It's challenging to pinpoint one specific aspect. However, the point about positive campaigning holds great significance for us. We want people to vote for the PA because they genuinely support us and appreciate our approach. We don't want them to vote for us simply because they dislike another party and see us as an alternative. While we do position ourselves as an alternative to other parties, it is essential for us to build our own identity. Most voters in the country are tired of mudslinging and negative campaigning. They want to know who we are and what we offer. Despite its flaws and multiple faults, the ANC does not engage in negative campaigning. They focus on presenting themselves as a party that will improve people's lives, without attacking other parties. They garner respect from voters for this approach. As for the ANC's stronghold in rural areas, it aligns with the trend seen in liberation parties across the continent. ZanuPF exhibits a similar profile. Although the ANC may become primarily a rural party, it will still hold significant influence. Traditionally, their polling numbers tend to be lower than the actual votes they receive. While I can't predict how close they will get to 50%, we hope they will drop significantly below that threshold, which would lead to coalition politics. We aspire to play a major role in that scenario. However, we don't want to achieve it by tearing down other parties. Our goal is to run a positive campaign centred around bringing hope. This is the core of the PA's message: believing that we can bring the necessary economic reforms such as free markets, job creation, and economic growth. We want people to vote for us based on what we can offer and our commitment to them. If they don't believe in us, they have the freedom to vote for someone else.

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Alec Hogg: In an interview earlier this week with John Steenhuisen, I inquired about what Gayton and the PA would need to do to regain a position in the Moonshot Pact. He shared some interesting thoughts on the matter. From your perspective, what steps does the DA need to take to attract the Patriotic Alliance back into the Moonshot Pact? And what are the chances, or at least the possibilities, of this pact successfully unseating the ANC in the 2024 elections?

Charles Cilliers: I believe it's quite evident and straightforward. We have always asked the DA to treat us as equals and not try to bully us, even if they are the big brother in a coalition and we are the little brother. The fundamental premise is to treat each other with basic respect. We are open to working with them and have even been willing to sign a pre-coalition agreement, stating that we won't form a coalition with the ANC in the Western Cape, in exchange for exploring coalition options elsewhere, such as the metros, Northern Cape, Northwest, and so on. However, it seems that the DA is fixated on the notion that we are a proxy for the ANC, possibly to secure their power in the Western Cape. If they fail to address this perception, they may find themselves compelled to return to the negotiating table after the upcoming elections, and we may encounter a very different DA. Rebuilding the relationship will be challenging given their previous statements and actions, but we remain open to that possibility.

Alec Hogg: In by-elections, the vote can be split, but in national and provincial elections, due to proportional representation in South Africa, there's no splitting of the vote. The votes for the PA, DA, ANC, and other parties will be tallied, and that will determine our future. However, achieving maturity within our young democracy will require sacrifices and mutual respect from all sides. Are you willing to initiate that process? Can you be the mature voice in the room?

Charles Cilliers: Indeed, I believe we have matured significantly in the intense crucible of coalition politics over the past year and a half. We have made substantial progress and are actively working to de-escalate tensions and resume constructive dialogue. We need to remember the African proverb: "When elephants fight, the grass suffers." We don't want the people on the ground to suffer as a result. So, we have made the decision to strive for that path. However, ultimately, we can only wait for other parties to come to their senses, for lack of a better phrase.

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