In this interview with BizNews, Roy Jankielsohn, the Democratic Alliance (DA) leader in the Free State, gives an update on political developments in the province. He expresses the hope that with the arrest – and impending extradition from the US – of Ace Magashule’s former PA, that there will be convictions for corruption. He also details the findings of a Public Protector’s report into the R6-million funeral for an MEC, in which a cap on State funerals is recommended. Another cause for optimism is the way national political developments have impacted the province’s politics where, for the first time since 1994, opposition parties have received chairpersonships of committees within the Free State Legislature. However, a huge concern remains cross-border crime, including human trafficking, drug smuggling, cattle rustling, and vehicle smuggling. But Jankielsohn has faith that the appointment of crime fighter Ian Cameron as Chair of the Portfolio Committee on Police in Parliament will lead to improvements in law enforcement.
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Highlights from the interview
In an interview with Chris Steyn, Roy Jankielsohn, the Democratic Alliance leader in the Free State, discussed significant political developments and challenges in the province. For the first time since 1994, opposition parties have secured chairpersonships of committees within the Free State Legislature due to the ANC’s reduced majority, holding only 52%. The Democratic Alliance (DA) gained an additional seat, leading to a more consensus-based legislature.
Jankielsohn expressed optimism about the future, highlighting the legislature’s strengthened ability to hold the executive accountable. He also addressed a recent Public Protector’s report that condemned excessive funeral costs for a provincial MEC, which exposed conflicts of interest and led to recommendations for stricter controls and disciplinary actions.
He criticized the entrenched system of cadre deployment perfected under Ace Magashule, which facilitated widespread corruption and state capture. Despite rhetoric from ANC leaders about combating corruption, he noted that real change requires abandoning cadre deployment and prioritizing expertise.
Jankielsohn also discussed the pervasive issue of cross-border crime, including vehicle theft, cattle rustling, drug trafficking, and human trafficking. He emphasized the lack of effective law enforcement and called for a cultural shift in policing and the implementation of advanced technology and special rural units to address these crimes. Jankielsohn remains hopeful that recent political changes might bring about improved law enforcement and crime reduction in the province.
Extended transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___
Chris Steyn (00:01.656)
Today we look at how national political developments have affected provincial rule in the Free State and we speak to Roy Jankielsohn, the Democratic Alliance leader in that province. Welcome, Roy.
Roy Jankielsohn (00:15.387)
Good morning Chris, thank
Chris Steyn (00:17.974)
Roy, what happened last week?
Roy Jankielsohn (00:21.361)
We had an interesting event that took place last week and that is that for the first time opposition parties, this is since 1994, have received chairpersonships of committees within the Free State Legislature. And that’s simply because of pure mathematics. The ANC dropped by almost 10% to 52% in the Free State.
We have a very small legislature of 30 members. So after the executive was constituted and put together, the ANC were left with six seats in the legislature, as opposed to the total opposition’s 14. And we were very happy because we grew with an additional seat to seven. So we comprise half of those 14 seats.
So what it came down to is that the ANC were unable to fill all the positions because after they’d filled the Speaker, Deputy Speaker positions, they still had Chair of Chairs, Chief Whip, etc. And there are eight committees that needed to be filled.
After some time of negotiation since the election, we managed to obtain two chairperson positions, the Committee on Petitions and the Committee on Infrastructure, in the legislature. And the EFF and Freedom Front each got one committee chairpersonship as well, and then the ANC were able to take up the other committee chair positions.
This brings in a new type of dynamic within the legislature where we will be more consensus-based. We did indicate that we will continue to play an active opposition role in the legislature because the legislature’s constitutional mandate is to hold the executive accountable. And that is what we’ll do. We’ll just be able to do it from different positions within the legislature. We also increased our numbers on committees from one person per committee to two people per committee, which will also strengthen our position within committees.
Roy Jankielsohn (02:41.903)
So within the legislature, I think we’ll be working closer together as political parties to implement the legislature’s constitutional mandate. It’s also interesting because the ANC even had to cut one of their cabinet positions, one of the MECs, to give them an additional seat in the legislature. But in spite of that, they couldn’t get the necessary majority they needed to fill all those seats. And this is something that we predicted during the election campaign.
Chris Steyn (03:09.93)
Roy, does that make you more optimistic for the future of the province? I remember the last time we spoke, you were quite despondent.
Roy Jankielsohn (03:18.693)
Yes, I think it makes me optimistic for two reasons. I think the legislature is stronger and one of the reasons why we’ve seen the decay in the Free State of service delivery and large-scale corruption is because the legislature wasn’t able to carry out its mandate to hold the executive accountable because all the senior positions in the legislature, all the committee chair positions were also held by the ANC who were also in the executive, which is not an ideal situation that the people who chairing the oversight committees report to the same people within the party over whom they are supposed to do oversight and who they’re to hold accountable. So I think things will look better from the legislature’s side and we obviously will do everything we can to put alternatives on the table and ensure that these benefit the people of the Free State.
Chris Steyn (04:26.783)
Roy, now you recently received a Public Protector’s report on the funeral costs of an MEC. Can you tell us what that report contained, please?
Roy Jankielsohn (04:39.151)
Yes, several months ago, before the election, one of our MECs passed away tragically in a motor vehicle accident near Winburg. And unfortunately, the provincial government decided to use this to spend large amounts of money. And close to six million rand was spent on the funeral costs of the MEC and his protector, and we regarded these amounts as excessive and we reported it to the public protector. And last, or two weeks ago, the public protector brought out a report and agreed with the DA that the funeral costs were excessive, but went a little bit further in the investigations and also found that there was a conflict of interest within the office of the Premier where officials were sitting on the bid adjudication committee, but these same officials were also the people who drafted the specifications, which is a clear conflict of interest. And then there were also interestingly increased amounts on the tender that weren’t in the specifications that were also approved, substantial amounts, and the recommendations of the Public Protector are firstly that the President and the National Head of Treasury have to set the costs for State funerals. So they must cap those costs, which I think is a good outcome for the country at national and provincial levels where these costs weren’t capped previously and became excessive.
And then secondly, the Public Protector also said that certain individuals from the Director General in the Free State and the officials who were involved must be subject to disciplinary action and this within specific timeframes. And then also that The Hawks have to investigate this. And I have confirmed that The Hawks are looking into these costs as well.
Roy Jankielsohn (06:57.839)
It is tragic that a funeral of someone has to be turned into a Public Protector report. And we did our duty as the official opposition, but I think that the executive must take into account that they’re not doing anyone any favours when they do this. it’s not good for them or for the families involved when this type of thing happens.
Chris Steyn (07:23.352)
Roy, the last time we spoke, you told me that State Capture was perfected in the Free State, that the rule book was written there and was only applied somewhere else. That much of that happened under the premiership of Ace Magashule. How is the fight to hold him accountable going?
Roy Jankielsohn (07:49.873)
Chris, that’s a loaded question because in some respects there have been some improvements, but in other respects it’s more of the same. At provincial level, we’ve heard rhetoric from our previous Premier and our current Premier regarding corruption and how they’re going to fight corruption. But the big fight against corruption is not going to be from political platforms and in rhetoric. it’s going to be actually doing away with the cadre deployment policy, which caused this. And Ace Magashule took that cadre deployment policy and turned it into State Capture in the Free State. And in fact, I always said, perfected it there as a perfect instrument to implement these deals with tenderpreneurs in the province. And that was the major cause of State Capture in the province. And then this was also exported to the rest of the country. Not that it wasn’t taking place in other parts of the country previously, but I think in the Free State, we saw how political power merged with executive authority to implement this and perfect it.
So there has been the rhetoric from ANC leaders, the new ANC factions in the Free State, but those cadres who implemented these policies are still in place. So the ANC still has to take this major decision and that is to do away with cadre deployment and bring in expertise as the main instrument for implementing or for pointing officials within the administration. And that has yet to be done.
And of course at municipal level, State Capture is continuing unabated because we see the impact of this on service delivery in our municipalities. As we speak, many municipalities and individuals on the ground are struggling, still struggling with water. They were struggling before the election and this hasn’t changed for those people. And this is a human rights issue.
Roy Jankielsohn (10:09.893)
We drafted a substantial report for the Human Rights Commission before the election, which we submitted to them during their public hearings in the province. We also published this internationally and we hope that this will have an impact on service delivery on the grounds that we’re waiting for the Human Rights Commission to bring their report and their recommendations as well.
But you know, it impacts on the right to water, it impacts on people’s educational rights. It has an economic impact, which impacts on people’s right to find employment and to look after themselves, to supply livelihoods for themselves and their families. So it is very broad in the Free State because you can’t have any development without water. People can still live without electricity and roads, but water is a basic human right.
Chris Steyn (11:08.769)
Now Roy, Ace Magashule’s former PA has been arrested in the United States and is going to be extradited. What will that mean for his upcoming trial?
Roy Jankielsohn (11:24.037)
Well, we hope that we will have convictions because we’ve seen in the past that many officials have been arrested and officials are thrown under the bus during these investigations. And if we could get a conviction of someone like Ace Magashule, whose trial starts in August in earnest. Hopefully this time, it will send a clear message to the people of the Free State and the country that the State is serious about dealing with corruption. And we hope that the State do have a watertight case in this regard and that we’re not going to see in it like with other previous politicians in the Free State thrown out of court or having the case withdrawn. We hope that we will see convictions, but obviously it’s going to depend on well, our State Prosecution, State Prosecuting Authority performs, and of course, on the political world to actually drive this through and make sure that we have a good outcome. And a good outcome is convictions. We want to see people in orange overalls in jail, not just in the courts endlessly.
Chris Steyn (12:48.174)
Turning to other crime in your region, Roy, some of BizNews viewers have been touch to complain and share their frustrations with cross-border smuggling of vehicles, with the cattle rustling that’s also continuing unabated. What can you tell us?
Roy Jankielsohn (13:08.529)
Chris, this is one of the most serious crimes in the Free State and that is the cross-border crime that is taking place. And it has a huge economic impact, not just for our border communities, but also the larger communities because it’s not just the crime that’s taking place. It’s also the cross border influx of illegal immigrants who are also involved in, for example, the Zama Zamas in Welkom and the human trafficking that’s also taking place there within those mines, the abuse of people in those mines.
And there doesn’t seem to be a solution from law enforcement agencies for this problem. Just setting up special task teams is not enough. We need to see a reduction in this on the ground. But the cross-border crime is continuing unabated.
I visited the border a month or two ago and actually witnessed first hand the lack of law enforcement on the border. Firstly, the infrastructure. There is no fence on the border…you know, you just walk across. You can see the poles where the fences were and you just step across from one side of the border to the other.
And as you looked across the hills and mountains there, there’s no visible policing. There’s no South African National Defense Force in sight. There’s no police presence there in sight. All what you see are the Lesotho citizens’ cattle grazing on the South African side, which happens on a daily basis. They chase their cattle across the border. They graze there. When the local farmers or communities threatened to impound the cattle, they set the grass alight during the fire season and caused fires out of revenge attacks. And of course, the physical attacks as well by these cattle rustlers.
But while we were there, we were also informed by the community of human trafficking that takes place across the border, of the very serious drug trafficking that’s taking place.
Roy Jankielsohn (15:31.311)
And then as you mentioned also, the vehicle theft syndicates who crossing the border into Lesotho. And this doesn’t only affect the Free State, obviously these vehicles are coming from all over the country and the drugs don’t only flow into the Free State, but also into other parts of the country as well. it’s some of the stories we heard, they are actually tragic…of, you know, local schools on the border on the South African side, where children are addicted to these drugs and these drug traffickers come across the border…and, during breaks, these kids have to go and trade themselves for the drugs.
We’ve also, you know, heard stories of complicity with our law enforcement agencies where they are in fact assisting some of these criminals who are perpetrating these crimes. And it doesn’t seem that there’s the political will at this stage to deal with these issues at the national or provincial level. And what’s also taking place is not just those types of crime, but we also see the trafficking on illegal goods such as lion bones for example from farms in the Free State because we have SADEC protocols within the Southern African Development Community and anything that’s packaged within one of the SADEC countries is not subjected to searches at our ports of exit.
So if you package something in Lesotho in terms of those protocols, it goes through the country and it is exported through our ports of exit without being searched because the SADEC agreements are written in such a way that the countries are supposed to have mutual trust.
Roy Jankielsohn (17:36.579)
So we find that things are packaged there into containers. hopefully not humans as well, but it’s not impossible and then are exited and they’re not taken through our country and to our ports of exit and then find their way to places abroad.
Chris Steyn (17:52.536)
Well, with the appointment of a new Minister of Police, there are people who are hopeful that there could be action, certainly at national level and hopefully also at provincial level. What do you think, Roy?
Roy Jankielsohn (18:06.363)
Well, we are hopeful that the new Government of National Unity will follow a new approach when it comes to dealing with cross border crime.
And we hope that Ian Cameron will be very successful on the portfolio committee of policing in Parliament. And I think you did interview him recently as well. So we are hopeful that things will improve.
But what we’ll need to do is improve the whole culture of law enforcement in the country. Because I always say that the best deterrent to would-be criminals is the knowledge that if you do commit a crime, you will be detected, you will be convicted, and you will be punished. The type of punishment, death penalty, et cetera, I think is less of a deterrent than the knowledge that you will, in fact, be caught. and you will be nailed and jailed if you commit a crime. And we need to bring that about through perhaps changes in policies. And the most important thing, I think, is the change in culture and in the political world to actually implement our laws. Because it’s not the lack of legislation that is causing the crimes, but it’s the lack of implementation of this legislation.
And we have very good policies, as the DA, that we think can assist in the fight against crime. The decentralisation of law enforcement to provincial and local level. And then also the implementation of special rural units that can deal with cross border crime and rural crimes using technology, drone technology, cameras and various other means to fight against crime.
Chris Steyn (19:54.722)
Thank you. That was Democratic Alliance Free State leader Roy Jankielsohnspeaking to BizNews about crime and politics in his province. Thank you, Roy. And I’m Chris Steyn.
Roy Jankielsohn (20:08.901)
Thank you, Chris.
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