South Africa has become the new gateway to terror. So says Neil de Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement. He spoke to BizNews after the arrest of 95 Libyan nationals at a suspected secret military training camp and the sanctioning by US authorities of an ISIS operative as well as a trainer based in South Africa. De Beer warns: "…we better wake up because if we don't, the absolute terror now being cast in Mozambique, without a doubt, the horrific deaths and killings in DRC are going to come to roost in this country. And it's not doom and gloom. It's not spreading fear…you cannot deny that South Africa is becoming a hub, a centre, a logistical conduit to terror." De Beer explains how lack of action previously could be because of sensitive links between suspected terrorists and powerful people. However, De Beer has words of praise for new Police Minister Senzo Mchunu who he says "absolutely is a doer".
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Highlights from the interview
In a recent interview with Chris Steyn from BizNews, Neil de Beer, President of the United Independent Movement, highlighted concerns about South Africa's role as a base for terrorism and organized crime. De Beer criticized the South African Police Service (SAPS) for inadequate action despite reports of secret military training camps within the country. He referenced a whistleblower's claims about these camps and expressed skepticism about their purported purpose as security training.
De Beer emphasized that South Africa has become a logistical hub for terrorist activities, citing evidence of ISIS-linked operatives and problematic financial flows tied to terrorism. He argued that while South Africa's intelligence services do track these threats, their findings are often suppressed when linked to influential figures.
The conversation also touched on recent successes in combating crime, such as significant drug lab busts and raids on training camps. De Beer praised the new Police Minister for his effective, low-profile approach compared to his predecessor, and advocated for the devolution of police powers to improve local crime fighting. Overall, he stressed the urgency for South Africa to confront and address its growing terror threat before it escalates further.
Extended transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___
Chris Steyn (00:03.036)
Terrorists and suspected terrorists have been using South Africa as a base for many years. The past week saw some action, at least. We speak to Neil de Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement. Welcome, Neil.
Neil De Beer (00:20.14)
Yeah, thank you Chris. Good afternoon, good morning, good evening to our BizNews family and I think some soul searching, some dark side coming and no matter what a person can do, you're a human and it will affect you knowing what's going on.
Chris Steyn (00:38.28)
Well, Neil, according to a SAPS whistleblower, two years ago, two memory sticks with information on so-called secret military training camps in South Africa was handed to State Security. When that whistleblower tried to follow up, she was blocked.
Neil De Beer (01:00.246)
I think it's eight years ago that you can go when the first algorithm of people saying that the fundamentalism of ISIS, ISIL, Al-Shabaab, Al-Qaeda and Boko Haram are here. When you make a fundamental statement that that grouping of call it Islamic fundamentalism has come to the border, it doesn't take allegedly, it doesn't take maybe and no assumption. You just have to go and look at the pattern, what has happened in Mozambique, specifically in the north of Mozambique, where I visited called Pemba, where we had a direct confrontation with what they called ISIL-M or ISIS-M, ISIS-Mozambique, where we horrific matters of beheadings, slaughter and attack of a group that actually took over the north side of Mozambique. That was the first sign. The continual attacks of Al-Shabaab in Kenya, attacking a mall, destroying civilian life. And then obviously the stand-up war in the north of Nigeria, where you also had the breakaways of Boko Haram, the ISIS ideology.
We know for a fact and we should move from allegedly to really that they live amongst us. The current scenario of people warning, giving red flags and saying that South Africa is becoming a portal, a scenario point of entry for these kinds of crimes, terror, is no more debatable.
So here we sit with a sporadic explanation of a training camp found next to White River in Mpumalanga, under the auspices that it is PSiRA registered and only for security training. And I'd like to explain that, Chris, why that is laughable.
Neil De Beer (03:12.94)
But that it is there, is clear. And we are still now using the words apparently, maybe. But I will give a feather to the cap, to the police, and to the entities that today, they reacted and they were on site. But something's wrong, Chris.
Chris Steyn (03:33.768)
Well, 95 Libyans were arrested. Where were they going to be deployed as security guards, Neil?
Neil De Beer (03:39.544)
So you look at the video, people like myself that come from there, and you look at the training camp facility. Let's quickly discuss one thing. A security guard, which they say the 95 people were there for. They were there for security guard training. What the hell are the kinds of security premises these people are going to protect? Rubbish. So let me go through it…
There is a place and you can see the new minister, Mchunu , and the National Commissioner walking with a camera crew and you can see there is what we call a live scenario setup. It is a S-shaped trench covered with sandbag leading up to an underground bunker. Now I don't know what kind of training a security guard needs to defend a line of trench warfare and underground bunkers.
So you can fool some, some of the time, but not all, all of the time. The kind of uniform, the kind of discussion, I saw them practicing house clearing, I saw them practicing shoot and move. This is not a normal security guard training, unless this security is being done in the middle of either Iraq, Iran or Afghanistan. Rubbish! This was a camp, in my opinion, allegedly set up to train people for war. And that's that.
Chris Steyn (05:23.88)
Well, Neil, stories about training camps in various locations in South Africa have popped up sporadically. Yet, we have not seen any action to shut down these camps or to expose them. Why not?
Neil De Beer (05:43.34)
I'll tell you why not. Chris, there's two things. One, when intelligence services work, they work in something called a spider web. The spider web, the best explanation is join the dots. You are afraid with that when people say join the dots. So we call it spider web. So what happens is we go from one person and then you start linking to whom this person speaks to. What do they speak about? Where do they speak and why do they speak…
So what happens is the intelligence services have a way of starting electronically, cyber wise, to draw a spider web of the people that a suspected terrorist, a suspected fundamentalist, a suspected cartel member, who they talk to. And at the end of the day, when you sit back, you have the full picture of a spider web.
The problem, Chris, is not creating the tracking of the spider. The problem is when you start taking and joining the dots of the spider web and oopsie, you find that someone in that spider web is a person of note, is a person of power or a person of very high esteem. And now the question would normally come from the field operators to say, we have just got this individual in the spiderweb, what do we do? Normally you escalate the information to the next level and to the next level. Chris, there is then where the fundamental choice must come about honour, about patriotism, about justice. And in my opinion, 98% of the time, that is where that thing then gets collapsed. It gets told to no further continue and to withdraw. This is not a South African problem. This is a global problem in all intelligence services, is when you stumble on something and it is becoming too sensitive. We've had that in this country. I will remind you that The Scorpions were doing their job, Chris, too well. And they shut them, allegedly.
Chris Steyn (08:10.46)
Well, Neil, the US State Security Department has now sanctioned two ISIS linked operatives in South Africa. The one has been moving money to the DRC, people between Uganda and South Africa. And the other one has been involved in other activities linked to far-flung terror operations. So have you looked at that statement from the US?
Neil De Beer (08:48.332)
Yes, I received it from those individuals. And again, Chris, again, you can walk with a long stick and beating the grass and hope that only certain things pop out. But when you beat grass in a felt, when a snake, anaconda, cobra or black mamba jumps out, don't be surprised. So here's the thing, Chris, you cannot deny that South Africa is becoming a hub, a centre, a logistical conduit to terror.
Now in my last discussion and in my discussion this week with several authorities, I made it very clear that the level of cartel movement, the level of drug shipping, the level of armament, the level of training, the level of cash flow is not just being said by current authority. The United States of America, who has for ambient time fought terror, fought cartels and fundamentalism in every part of the globe, has recognised that there are certain individuals currently residing in this country of ours that don't just speak to terrorists, engage with terrorists, but are funding them.
Now here's a statement, Chris. If you look at the current, and I'm saying where another flag came, when you look at the current, call it spaza shops, call it Somalian shops, call it those shops that were around, I'm quoting verbatim from an article, that certain of these businesses, whom are unregistered, illegally occupied, and only work with cash, are currently being investigated for funding matters of fundamental terrorism in Africa via MoneyGram, via Telegram, via many methods that you move money.
And, Chris, that is why two years ago, South Africa was put on the Grey List. They were put on the Grey List because the Globe and the financial services of the world said, your financial system in this country is absolutely not controlled and cannot be trusted.
Neil De Beer (11:17.534)
Now how many, Chris, more tick boxes do you want to say to the South African authorities, hey, word wakker, it's not us that are just saying it. It is the US, it is the IMF, it is the World Bank, it is the world that are saying, listen, South Africa has become the new gateway to terror. And now, Chris, we better wake up because if we don't, the absolute terror now being cast in Mozambique, without a doubt, the horrific deaths and killings in DRC are going to come to roost in this country. And it's not doom and gloom. It's not spreading fear. It's a fact. Join the dogs.
Chris Steyn (12:19.964)
Neil, I recently spoke to somebody about the links between these terror operatives in South Africa and organised crime. They are using robberies, kidnappings, extortion to raise millions for terror. And that's been going on for years.
Neil De Beer (12:41.12)
Absolutely. You know, Chris, the thing I always tell people when I have the opportunity to lecture certain companies, certain executives, about, which I do. Certain companies invite me to come tell them about what is happening, specifically South African countries that are operating in Africa. I go in there, I give them an hour to tell them what is going on. Follow the money, Chris. You know that cliché. Follow the money. I always remind people that in the Twenties the most prolific Mafia boss in the world, Al Capone, was not sentenced to jail because of murder and smuggling alcohol. He was sent to jail because of tax evasion. Money. I said,
I don't know if the other people that listen to us saw that programme about gold smuggling out of Zimbabwe. When I sat episode after episode and watching how the tobacco and gold industry in this country and beyond are absolutely driven by crime syndicates. What was done about it? It's like the Zondo Commission. What are we doing about it?
People are starting to see the end of the terror. And you can say what you want, Chris. Fundamentalism and terrorism and crime at the end of the day does reach the person on the street, hits you in the pocket, hits you in crime and threatens this beautiful country of ours to become, I said it before last year and I'll say it again, will become Colombia.
And here, can I put a feather on the cap and I will do so because just to play opposition all the time is also not in my opinion honourable. When something happens that is good, let's give them the accolade. I am absolutely proud and enthusiastic about again the Police Commissioner in KZN. Chris, if there was ever an indicator that the police have drawn a line, go to KZN. That Commissioner, I've said this before, has taken on and decided that if you're a criminal and you point a gun at a police officer, you will die.
Neil De Beer (15:06.762)
That's it. That's not a nice thing. That is not human. That is not humanity. But at a point, you better decide. We either standing for law and order or we submit.
I attended the memorial service yesterday, as I told you, of the city of Cape Town for our uniform members that have fallen. To see those names on a wall, and to physically sit next to the people that were left behind is a stark reminder that every day our law enforcement officers are going out there and facing terrorists. They are in a war, Chris. They are not fighting people that are shooting at them with pop guns, ketties and shotguns. They are getting out and facing armament of war. AK-47s, stolen R4s and at times now we hear hand grenades.
So crossing conclusion on that point, we must make a decision. Do we allow it or do we fight it? And you know where I stand and I think the most people in this country are going to come with us to bring back law and order. Well, it's definitely happening in the jails. Oom Pieter is besig om hulle te moer.
Chris Steyn (16:29.8)
Absolutely. That will teach an inmate to TikTok? Isn't that brilliant? Neil, meanwhile, we have seen a huge difference between how crime was fought under the previous Police Minister and this Police Minister. He's barely in his portfolio and we've already seen a two billion rand drug lab bust. Now the military training camp. Do you also feel that there's a huge difference between operations under the two ministers?
Neil De Beer (17:17.322)
Absolutely. Chalk and cheese. Bheki Tafeltjie Stoeltjie Ek Skree vir Almal Cele has now shut up. We have a new minister. May I tell you I'm watching him. And the fundamental difference between Ek Skree vir Alles Bheki and Minister Mchunu, I will tell you something what I've noticed. He's calm. He's collected. He seems to be a thinker and absolutely is a doer. I know this.
People can say what you want. He…we need a police officer to be the minister. I was a proponent to the fact that we must have someone that has policing. But this minister has absolutely come in, not said a word, not screamed and just got down to the job. Now, if that is the kind of leadership we are going to get into SAPS, I see light shining – and that's an accolade. Hope must come. So I'm watching him. I'm seeing what he's doing. He's on the ground, but he's not there for show and camera. I saw him at this Mpumalanga raid, say his say and then stand back and then said to the National Police Commissioner, please speak. And he didn't comment on police matters. He refused. He spoke about the people, about justice, about what the minister is going to do and handed the rest to SAPS. That's the difference. Let the police do what the police do and let the minister give them the coverage of the political authority. And that's clear.
Ian Cameron is rising. No matter what we say, Ian is bringing certain new energy also to policing.
Devolution is coming. That word devolution and devolution of police power to province, to city is the ultimate final scenario of saying sharing power to catch a criminal is better than hiding it because we all have our little causes. So I look forward to it. I'm very much involved, as you know, in the Cape Town law enforcement fraternity and we cannot wait for the devolution of certain powers, which is constitutionally allowed so that the people on the ground, in the mid-level and on the national level, can all take hands and make South Africa a safe country again.
Chris Steyn (19:55.073)
Thank you. That was Neil de Beer, the President of United Independent Movement, speaking to BizNews about the fight against terror and organised crime in South Africa. Thank you, Neil. I'm Chris Steyn.
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