Acquitted SAPS whistleblower reveals secret military training camp cover-up…
A not-guilty verdict was handed down today for South African Police Services (SAPS) Whistleblower Patricia Morgan-Mashale – after almost two years of threats to her life liberty. This after she had been accused of spreading false allegations, circulating WhatsApp messages, and defamation. In this interview with BizNews, she goes into the agenda behind her malicious prosecution; and goes on to reveal how SMSes to former Police Minister Bheki Cele about secret military training camps were deleted from her phone while it was with the police; and how she was blocked by Zizi Kodwa, during his time as Deputy Minister for State Security in the Presidency, when she tried to follow up on the info shared on the secret military training camps. She also speaks about how she blew the whistle on firearms – meant for destruction – being stolen by police officers and sold back to the black market. Having lost her job in SAPS, Mashale now plans to start her own Whistleblower and Anti-Corruption Foundation.
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Extended transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___
Chris Steyn (00:03.27)
South Africa Police Service whistleblower Patricia Morgan-Mashale has gone through years of threats to her life and her liberty. But today she had a good day. Welcome Patricia.
PATRICIA MASHALE (00:18.852)
Thank you so much, Chris. Good afternoon.
Chris Steyn (00:23.558)
Tell us what happened in court today, after so many appearances.
PATRICIA MASHALE (00:28.627)
After so many appearances, it's actually been almost a year. All charges, I was acquitted of all charges today in court, unconditionally. Not guilty on all charges.
Chris Steyn (00:44.484)
Remind us what the charges were, please.
PATRICIA MASHALE (00:48.226)
Th charges were spreading false allegations, circulating WhatsApp messages. Actually it was three charges. It was defamation, spreading false allegations and circulating WhatsApp messages.
Chris Steyn (01:08.9)
Now, why do you believe you were dragged through the courts like this, Patricia?
PATRICIA MASHALE (01:14.988)
I believe I was dragged to the courts like this because I implicated Major General Lesia in my protective disclosures. And he wanted to shut me up. He wanted to silence me by bringing these malicious charges against me.
Chris Steyn (01:36.316)
Patricia, how long did you spend in hiding?
PATRICIA MASHALE (01:40.654)
I was in hiding for almost seven months. I was in total, total hiding where I could not move around. So yes, because of those charges, because as you can remember, there was a warrant of arrest issued against me and a Red Alert was issued against my name, meaning that I was one of the most wantef criminals in South Africa or let me say internationally because if there's a Red Alert it means that you are wanted internationally.
Chris Steyn (02:18.492)
Yeah, you were literally on the level of a wanted terrorist at that time.
But you never stopped whistleblowing, not when you were hiding, not before you went into hiding, not when you came out of hiding. Now, last week, I thought of you when 95 Libyans were arrested at a so-called secret military training camp. What did that remind you of, Patricia?
PATRICIA MASHALE (02:42.714)
That reminded me of April 2022 when me and my husband George Mashale handed over two flash drives to the former Deputy Minister of SSA, Zizi Kodwa, regarding those illegal military training camps that was apparently all over the country.
Before we handed over the memory cards to him, we also reported it to the former National Commissioner General Sitole. General Sitole sent the late General Mfazi to Bloemfontein to come and get information. When Mfazi arrived here, he didn't want information. He wanted the details of the sources. That's when we told him that we will never give him the details of the sources because we know that's our sources. We must protect them and we know what happened to sources.
And then that's when we contacted the Office of the President. I wrote emails to the Office of the President and then Zizi Kodwa responded.
PATRICIA MASHALE (04:03.418)
He called and he said that he was sent by the President and he wanted to meet with us to get the information. So he came to Bloemfontein, met with us and we gave him the flash drives. And then he said that, on instructions of the President, they are going to establish a task team who are going to work on this information. And indeed, he sent this task tea that we didn't know what was the intentions at the time to come and get more information. I handed my, it was September 2021, when I handed my phone over to them voluntarily to download the files on my phone. And then it seems like they struggle to download them because my security on my phone is very complicated. So it seems like they might struggle, but now I realise they never, they could never download the files, but when I, because I got a disposal order for phone on our last appearance in court, the previous appearance in court. And I fetched my phone from the police station. And then I realised that all the messages that I sent to Bheki Cele regarding this unlawful military camps were deleted because Bheki Cele didn't have a WhatsApp. I sent him SMS. So only the messages, SMSes, that I sent to Bheki Cele was deleted from my phone.
Chris Steyn (05:36.324)
Well, it was in the custody of State Security.
PATRICIA MASHALE (05:40.31)
While it was in the custody of State Security. That was when I handed it over voluntarily to them. So I never realized that the SMSes were deleted. Remember shortly after that in October, my phone was confiscated by the former colonel, Van Der Merwe who's now a brigadier. He got promoted after he confiscated my phone. So he confiscated my phone and my phone was in the possession of SAPS since October 2021 until I got it about two months ago.
Chris Steyn (06:18.108)
And when you followed up to fi – Sorry, continue.
PATRICIA MASHALE (06:18.148)
So when I went through my phone when I received it recently that's when I realised that all the messages that I sent to Bheki Cele was deleted, the SMSes, but the SMSes that I sent to Sitole was still there, still there on my phone.
Chris Steyn (06:41.894)
So when you tried to follow up to find out what they were doing with this information that you had passed on, what happened?
PATRICIA MASHALE (06:50.904)
When I tried to follow up, Zizi Kodwa blocked me. Remember, we met with this task team of his in September. They promised me, you are giving us the information, you are whistleblower, and our duty is to protect you.
So in September when this happened to me when I was arrested by Van der Merwe, my phone, I contacted Zizi Kodwa immediately and he blocked me. And blocked me. And then I contacted the leader of this task team of his and he told me long stories. Now he's waiting. I said, Zizi Kodwa blocked me. And you were the people who promised me protection and now you are blocking me. So after that, my phone was taken. So I never communicated with them again.
Chris Steyn (07:39.292)
And why do you believe that information that you had given up was not followed up
PATRICIA MASHALE (07:45.186)
It was not followed up. First and foremost, the emails that I have still proof of, the emails that I sent to the President. I sent to the President's PA. I still have the letter that I sent to the President. I believe it was not followed up because when I followed up with another person in the President's office, that person informed me that the President might have never received the information. So that's why I believe it was never followed up because also there was never an investigation into the information that we gave to Zizi Kodwa. If he, let me say, if the President knows about it, then the President is complicit because Zizi Kodwa said the president sent him to get that.
PATRICIA MASHALE (08:39.674)
The President is aware of the information. The President sent him to get a flash drives. So if Zizi Kodwa informed the President and the President also never acted, that means the President is complicit in what happened.
Chris Steyn (08:52.966)
Now that was just one of the issues that you whistle blew on. Tell us what else you whistle blew on.
PATRICIA MASHALE (09:01.306)
The firearms in the custody of the South African Police Service that was meant for destruction. I reported that when I realised in 2018 that firearms had been stolen by police officers and been sold back to the black market. I informed my commander. My commander immediately went to Mayor General Lesia and informed him.
After a week or so my commander came back to me and said you know what Patricia I gave the evidence to General Lesia. the evidence that you withdrew for me from the system he knows about it but he's not saying anything. What are we going to do about it. I told him I said you know what if it's like that then I'm going to report it to General Sitole. So I did report it to General Sitole. General Sitole referred me to General Lebeya. General Lebeya referred me to General Moodley, who was the provincial head of the DPCI in Free State. I indeed secured an appointment with General Moodley, gave him all the evidence, and General Moodley immediately indicated that he's going to initiate an investigation.
He also said that, Patricia, in DPCI, we don't have someone who have the functions to check the serial numbers of the firearms for us. But I'm going to request from the Provincial Commissioner to transfer you so that you can assist us in the investigation. And he did indeed wrote a letter to the Provincial Commissioner. She refused. It was in 2020. She refused, and then the investigation just never proceeded because they didn't have someone who could assist them to check the serial numbers of those stolen firearms on the system. I found out that these firearms are being licensed by police officers at the Central Firearm Registry, although these firearms still reflect as State-owned firearms. On the license card, it will show the name of the person, but on the serial number of the firearm, it will show that that firearm belongs to the State.
PATRICIA MASHALE (11:25.216)
So I believe that there was a motive behind the failure of the Provincial Commissioner to act. I believe the provincial commissioner covered up the smuggling of firearms by police officers. And I believe that General Lesia and General Motswenyane must be held accountable because they are complicit in the smuggling of State-owned firearms.
Chris Steyn (11:51.268)
And for all your trouble, you actually ended up losing your job.
PATRICIA MASHALE (11:55.418)
For all my trouble, I ended up losing my job, I ended up being arrested, I ended up in leg irons; all they wanted was to see me either dead or in prison.
Chris Steyn (12:11.62)
Would you ever go back to the police, Patricia?
PATRICIA MASHALE (12:17.054)
You know what? I don't think I will go back to the police. I am planning to start my own foundation, a whistleblower foundation, anti-corruption foundation, whereby I'm going to still be a whistleblower, blowing the whistle not only on the South African Police, but on all the departments, whether it's private or public, because during the time that I was out of the Police and just a whistleblower, a lot of people came to me with a lot of information. And it's not only government, it's also the private sector.
So I will not go back to the police, but I'm going to, the lawyers are already now busy with civil claims against the State. Not only the State, because I'm not going to only punish the State for what happened to me. I'm going to make sure that everyone who was responsible for putting me through all this are going to be held personally liable because the State must, taxpayers must always pay for the slip-ups, intentional, deliberate slip-ups of these people. They know that nothing will be, they will not pay anything from their pockets, but I am going to be the first to make sure each and every one of them are going to be held personally liable. Before I'm going to the State, because I must also be held as State liable; the State failed to protect me, although they knew I was a whistleblower.
Chris Steyn (13:56.39)
How are your law studies going?
PATRICIA MASHALE (13:59.354)
Currently, my studies was brought to a halt for one and a half years. I was supposed to already have graduated in 2022. But I'm still, I'm proceeding with my studies. I couldn't because of financial constraints, but I believe that in the next, I have about 12 modules left before I complete my law degree. So I believe that I will complete my law degree in 2025. 2025, I will complete my law degree.
Chris Steyn (14:35.132)
Patricia, what message do you have for other whistleblowers who are suffering persecution and who are living in fear of their lives?
PATRICIA MASHALE (14:44.76)
The message that I for other whistleblowers is I always say to people that don't be derailed. If you know you do the right thing, stand by your convictions. I know you're going to stand alone. And it's cold. It's hard to stand alone. But stand by your convictions. Currently now, I believe, I saw that I have created a safe space for whistleblowers because most of the information that I have, I receive it from people who are afraid to talk out at their workplaces where they are.
So, also establishing this foundation, Patricia Mashale Whistleblower, Anti-Corruption and Crime Victim Foundation, I will make sure that I become the voice of the victims who were denied of the justice because there's a lot of people who are in in prison for crimes that they never committed. That's what I'm going to concentrate on. I saw what happens in courts. I saw that when you're in a court there's no guarantee that you will be acquitted like I was acquitted today even though you know you're afraid because courts is not…prosecutors are not there for justice. Prosecutors are there to fill up the pockets.
The Magistrate that presided in my case, you know what? I want to say that I hope that other magistrates can learn from him because today was about justice. Today was about being ethical. Today was about the truth. And that is what that magistrate stand for today. And he was very, very hard on the State. He was very hard on the South African Police Service. He was very hard on everyone who put me through this. And he told them said, it can't be allowed, that someone for charges, he actually said that this person, and person, remember my husband was there with me. And there was no charges against me. No, the Magistrate said, I don't actually know what is he doing in this court.
PATRICIA MASHALE (17:11.15)
There's no crime like community in, I can't even remember the word community in crime. Because you were married in community of property, now you must also be charged for the charges that was pressed against you. That's how we put it. He was very, very hard on the State today and he told them that it can't be that innocent people are being dragged to court by the State, whereby the State even formulated proper charges against them. And I pray for that Magistrate. And I pray for other magistrates who want to do the right thing.
But there are people who are in positions that are actually committing these crimes. The SPP, I want to speak specifically about the SPP, Claudia Mahloko. Claudia Mahloko is is complicit in what happened to me. The corruption that she committed with Mayor General Lesia; these people belong in jail. And we are going to press criminal charges against everyone implicated in this. Because Brigadier Van de Merwe testified in court that yes, he did commit fraud by deleting information after a magistrate signed for the search and seizure warrant. He admitted, and the Magistrate said, you were supposed to be arrested. Why are you not arrested yet? So I'm going to, already pressed charges in October already. And Claudia Mahloko declined to prosecute because there was no proper procedures followed with the docket. The docket was taken by the suspect. And how can the suspect take the docket from the police station and take it to the prosecutor? And then we realised when Professor De Hass has inquired about these dockets from the DPP, the dockets were never registered on the system of the DPP. So Claudia Mahloko is a law unto herself at the DPP office. And she must be dealt with. She can't get away with this. How many people have suffered before me? I won't allow that there will be any people to suffer after this court case of mine. I won't allow it.
Chris Steyn (19:37.894)
Thank you. That was South African Police Service whistleblower Patricia Morgan-Mashale speaking to BizNews after her not guilty verdict today. Thank you, Patricia, and I'm Chris Steyn.
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