Cyril’s cover-up, Zuma’s constitution, gatvol Gauteng – and the loss of Tito…
In this episode of the Sunday Show, Neil de Beer of the United Independent Movement, explains why President Cyril Ramaphosa should face private prosecution over Phala Phala, and why Democratic Alliance (DA) leader John Steenhuisen should step back from his Minister of Agriculture position to focus on the leadership of his party. De Beer describes how gatvol he is of the politicians who have battled it out for control of Gauteng Metros. He further dissects the freshly-launched Constitution of former President Jacob Zuma's MK Party, hails the departure of impeached judge Dr John Hlophe from the Judicial Service Commission (JSC) – and pays tribute to the former Finance Minister Tito Mboweni who died suddenly at the age of 65.
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Extended transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___
Chris Steyn (00:02.483)
The current president's couch and the former president's party's new constitution are trending topics. We talk about those and other newsworthy events of the past week with Neil de Beer, the president of the United Independent Movement here with BizNews on the Sunday Show. Welcome, Neil.
Neil De Beer (00:23.361)
Yeah, Chris, good morning to all our favourite customers, listeners and spectators on a Sunday to BizNews and yeah, lot to talk about. And sadly, some bad news that we got today about a stalwart who has passed, Mr. Tito Mboweni.
Chris Steyn (00:40.957)
Yes, tell me about your recollections of him, please, Neil.
Neil De Beer (00:47.594)
Yeah, I had the pleasure, Chris, I say pleasure because it was a pleasure to meet him actually on two occasions. You know, he was a first choice of Labour Minister in the Mandela era. Mr. Tito Mboweni comes from Tzaneen, so up North, then replaced, as I could recall, Mr. Chris Stals as Reserve Bank Governor in '99. And that's where I met him in that era.
Larger than life, always a smile and a chirp from Mr. Tito Mboweni. A very intelligent man, a person that I found that could handle a room, was very eloquent, but calm in his demeanour. And I think when he took over, at that point, when we really needed stability in that decade, he was the right man to drive the Reserve Bank for a decade, indeed.
And we will remember him always being forthright, chirpy, intelligent. But I think he's calmness brought calmness to the economy of our country, and then recalled back to politics to serve as Minister of Finance. I think in the 2018s under Cyril. And I must tell you from my perspective, as the Minister of Finance, he always used to bring this nuance of subtlety yet colourfulness when he used to do the annual budget speech and we always waited for him. You know, he had that plant he used to bring and put it on the podium. And yeah, I think on a serious ministry, a ministry that is the foundation of this country, Tito Mboweni just brought a bit of panache, flair and a bit of great execution.
But he was also known as The Vehement Cook, a culinary expert, and who will forget his continual postings on Twitter now, X, about his cooking and food excapades. So all in all, a loss to this country, another tree fallen, but what is surprising, Chris, gone too soon, 65 years old. We understand short and brief illness, but Rest in Peace Tito Titus Mboweni.
Chris Steyn (03:18.483)
Thank you, Neil. Now I've been wondering, are you stuffing your couch with dollars because it seems to be okay now?
Neil De Beer (03:29.999)
I wish, I think the only stuffing I've in my coach at this moment is foam. Shocker. Absolute shocker.
Now Chris, let me put this into perspective. There's a lot of stuff coming up when you say the word Phala, Phala. That this was 'n verdrinkende suur paal in die water.
This is a blatant, so obvious, use and abuse of power. That's it. Now, the dogs are going to come out on this and may I say the first howling dog out of the fence is me. So let's set the tone for the rest of the couple of days.
In the prosecution, because remember this started 2020, this whole saga and then the reporting of the ex- state security leader who turns around and says that there was Phala Phala, and in actual fact there was a theft of those Phala Phala dollars and that was the whole scenario. Oh, My goodness, it then hits the public. And Cyril is the focus. This is Cyril's property, this is Cyril's couch and this was Cyril's people. So the Phala Phala in a normal constitutional democracy would immediately bring the impeachment of a president. Because when one looks at the charges, we are not only contravening SA Revenue Service, we are not just only crossing the Foreign Exchange Service, we are not just crossing the matter of a president who acknowledged – which is against the Presidential Handbook – that he was doing business. And all of that undeclared. Now you don't need a formidable charge sheet. You also don't need to be a legal expert. This is bloody common sense. He's wrong. Now take all of that. No matter where you stand in politics, if you are pro-him or anti-him, Cyril Ramaphosa is accused Number One…
Neil De Beer (05:56.567)
…same words he used at the Zondo Commission about the ANC. Now we get this headline just a couple of weeks ago that the people that are charged with the theft of said couch dollars are going to be prosecuted and they are going to appear in court and we are then going to get chunk bites of the truth. So help me God.
And then suddenly in this period, we had the pre-GNU accusation from every political party that says that he must go to court, he must be charged. GNU happens. Silence. Silence. And then this week's declaration, Chris, that the National Prosecuting Authority of the Republic of South Africa decides that they do not see the possibility of success in the prosecution of Phala Phala. Case closed.
Chris Steyn (07:04.819)
Despite the evidence.
Neil De Beer (07:08.511)
Overhanging evidence. Case closed. And then what does the GNU start to say? You know the GNU parties, they are upset. This is very weird. And certain parties are saying that they will go into the Parliamentary Portfolio committees and ask questions. What a lot of rubbish. Lead by example, lead by example.
I'll refresh the memory of the people of this country that at this stage, if you can recall, Nelson Mandela as a sitting president, I recall, was actually brought to court and charged by S.A. Rugby. The old Lion, Ou Louis, Louis Luyt, actually took Nelson Mandela to court. And I clearly remember in that era because I was in that era that Nelson Mandela was told by the members of the ANC to tell Louis Luyt to go to hell and that how dare he take Nelson Mandela to court. And Nelson Mandela said, Cyril hoor jy? Mr Ramaphosa, hear this. Nelson Mandela said that if I as the president do not heed the justice system and go to court then what would that set an example to the rest of the citizens of this country? What a time, what an extraordinary man. And now I'm telling you, the current leadership is not following that example.
This case should not be closed. This should now go to private prosecution. Now the other people like AfriForums and Solidariteit and Citizenry for Honour, OUTA…We now need them to get up and say, you the politicians, all of you are now silent. This thing should not go to bed because if a president can, then what the hell about the rest of us? And that is my opinion, Chris. Common sense? Cyril is now being protected on such a blatant manner that the National Prosecuting Authority has now decided that they are visionaries and that they are prophets to say that this cannot be prosecuted and it won't have success.
Chris Steyn (09:37.119)
Well, Neil, let's go to a former president whose MKP party, Mr. Jacob Zuma's MKP party has launched its Constitution. What stands out for you in that constitution, Neil? What's the most interesting?
Neil De Beer (09:51.885)
Well, what stands out is now, I can tell you, it's got Hlophe all over it. You can see that the constitution that has been now sporadically launched by the ex-EFF member, Mr. Floyd Shivambo…interesting they chose him as National Coordinator to launch this constitution of the MK Party, and within it smacks three things.
There's a clear understanding that they now want to calm the seas, they want MK to settle down. In that they acknowledge that they are new party, but that they need to now bring in, and here's the thing, kind of ANC principle disciplinary values. So in other words, they are saying there's a huge focus now on national discipline. That's what they say.
Two, the policies that they are bringing out in the frameworks within that constitution that I saw smacks directly to the guidelines of RET. Radical Economic Transformation – and on the third side the wording – not blatantly put there, but the principles of sheer blatant nationalism. Nationalism of state-owned, state-governed and no doubt everything hedging on the transformation aspect.
Those are the three keys. It smacks therefore of what we always thought. The re-garnishing, the re-packaging of the ultra left, the alterable national socialistic and may I say some communistic principles.And there you have it. What we thought has now been put in written word.
Chris Steyn (11:51.741)
Meanwhile, despite very vocal threats from the Democratic Alliance, their mayor in Tshwane, Cilliers Brink, was not able to return to the mayoral seat last week. Have you spoken to him?
Neil De Beer (12:10.081)
No. And can I tell you why? Chris, I'm not on your show because I'm a subtle human being. I have been given a platform and about 80,000 people a week at least say thank you. So here it comes. Can I be straightforward and blatant? I, citizen X Neil, am now gatvol of Herman Mashaba's waffling. I am now gatvol of the other side's defense and critique. I am gatvol of another group's blatant lying. I am now tremendously gatvol of all of them.
So, here's my absolute blatant statement. You have now all subsequently moered each other. You have now all thrown each other under the bus. You have now had your opportunities to state your case and to say how terrible each one's mother-in-law is. Thank you. Klaar.
Now, Stop this, get it done and get to work. Almal van julle. Because now I just landed last night, 9 o'clock from Tshwane, driving from Tshwane to Joburg. Chris, what a shambles. What a shock. What sadness to see the state of the roads, the infrastructure, the dereliction. 29 traffic lights not working and 32 not even having a traffic light on the pole, craters in the road and a total dysfunctional Joburg – Tshwane. Not politics. I, I drove through it, I saw it. So, let's now stop this. Chris, I hope we have given them enough airtime. Well, people say stop giving Niel de Beer airtime. Maar ek is hier. I'm telling you now, we should stop now.
And I want to now challenge them. You have a hundred days and in a hundred days I would like to then interview you and say what have you done? Now that you've got what you want, what have you done? And because we, as the commentators, must now put the spotlight no more on the blame game, not on he said, she said, but on the actions and on what they got right.
Neil De Beer (14:35.434)
I am saying that's the citizens now should be focused on.
Chris Steyn (14:40.585)
Neil, let's talk about the GNU, the Government of National Unity and the role of essentially opposition parties as ministers in that government. You have thoughts on that. We've seen that dynamic playing out in tricky ways.
Neil De Beer (14:57.924)
Chris, I think it's a failure. Again, let me remove myself from politics. You know everything that a person these days puts on the table, if it's about the lawn is too long, it's racist. If it's about the current leader, it's racist. If it's about this, no, it's liberal. Wake up. It's common sense. What is this? You know, you don't have to always look for the third shooter that killed JFK, blah, blah.
Let's talk about reality. The reality, and I'm observing it, and I am not alone in this opinion is currently we have leaders of a multitude of political parties that have joined the Government of National Unity. I will highlight Mr. Thlabisa, Mr. Pieter Groenewald, Doctor and also let's call it John Steenhuisen. Just that and you can throw Gayton McKenzie into it as well. So let's focus on the Patriotic Alliance, the Democratic Alliance, the Freedom Front Plus and the IFP.
Chris, seemingly, and it's starting to break into the channels, you can see it coming more and more on the opinion pieces, that the ministers of Agriculture, Home Affairs, Constitutional Affairs, and currently Correctional Services, no doubt are doing brilliantly as the minister. I mean, you can't hide it, but there are other ministers as well, Mr Mchunu of Police, that are starting to make high line of what they do, the Minister of Electricity, etc. But I don't want to focus on them. I want to focus on the opposition parties pre-GNU.
Now, Chris, undoubtedly, since they took position as Cabinet Ministers, they have been fighting now, obviously, to make sure that people see that as a Minister they're doing absolutely well. But Chris, there can be no doubt that the strength they had as party political leaders in this country has taken absolutely the second class seat on the bus. There's no doubt about it. So when you now weigh it up, the question I posed last week in a written article was, is the fact that they serve in a cabinet under a president stifling their opinion as a ex-party opposition leader.
Neil De Beer (17:25.248)
And Chris, I can tell you, it's clear, they are no longer vehemently fiery opposition as a leader of the DA or the leader as the Freedom Front in their manifestos, their party politics and the differences between the DA and the ANC, Freedom Front, etc.
I can tell you, there's a problem, Chris. It is a problem. Now I'll tell you, it will be a problem. Because if you just took up a seat in cabinet and you're a minister, you serve at the behest of a president. I know that. I've been in those surroundings. You don't and cannot just be outspoken when you're a minister. But are they getting the balance right between being a serving cabinet minister ensuring that there is the positiveness of the GNU, but also being an effective opposition.
Now my opinion Chris, John Steenhuisen, Dr. Groenewald are doing great. They're their way, they're keeping it together. But I would say that at some other time, John Steenhuisen should stand back and maybe be replaced by a certain individual coming from that party and that John should go back in the absolute leadership role of the DA so that they can make sure that 2026, there's not an implosion of opposition, but that there's a strong leadership at least still facing.
I want to watch this space. I'm putting it out there. I would love to have comment, but you can clearly see there is a disparity on which king you serve the most.
Chris Steyn (19:21.427)
Quite Neil! Now, lastly, former Judge John Hlophe, having done the work on the Constitution for MKP, has decided to voluntarily leave the Judicial Services Commission.
Neil De Beer (19:40.706)
I would love to say it was us. I would love to say BizNews, Chris Steyn and Neil de Beer put a cherry on the cake. Want ons he hom gemoer. But plain and simply, our one day of publishing wasn't hot enough. It wasn't fresh off the publication where we said he must go, that it was an absolute differentiation between his competency and being ethical. And I think…
Neil De Beer (20:10.349)
at the end of the day, his withdrawal from the JSC was because I think the voices start getting too much internally to say, let's stately withdraw, leave that battle and focus on something else. So I say, I say it clearly, this was a win, no matter how it happened for justice. And I am glad that we understood and got to that scenario.
We are currently, I think still, in a democracy where you and I and the thousands of people that listen to us still could maybe be comfortable that our voice and the voices of reason, if shouted loud enough, maybe could be heard.
Chris Steyn (20:57.747)
Neil, now some viewers have reminded me that for a couple of weeks we haven't had a hero of the week and we haven't had a flop of the week. And I think we should just explain to them that it's not always so easy to find heroes. It's easier to find villains. So we will do that on an ad hoc basis, won't we? We don't want to force people. We don't want to force a crown on somebody's head when it's not wholly deserved, do we?
Neil De Beer (21:23.738)
You know, it's that absolute unbelievable moment where you got a great idea the other day and decided I'm going to make my first omelet. I did cracking of the eggs halfway through it. I saw it a flop and I turned to scramble eggs. So great idea, but the implementation sucked. So I will humbly withdraw. Let us put that on ice. But it doesn't stop our great supporters, our great viewers to post every week on the numerous comments that we get on maybe their suggestions of flop and hero. But we'll leave it to them. I think you and I focus on the expose and the opinion pieces. I think we're good at that.
Chris Steyn (22:04.114)
Thank you. That was Neil De Beer, the president of the United Independent Movement on the Sunday Show with BizNews and I am Chris Steyn. Thank you, Neil.
Neil De Beer (22:14.928)
Thanks Chris – and God bless South Africa
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