Glynnis Breytenbach, the Democratic Alliance spokesperson for Justice and Constitutional Development, has called President Cyril Ramaphosa’s redeployment of the “deeply conflicted, deeply compromised” Justice Minister to another Ministry a “disgrace” and an “insult to the intelligence of all South Africans”. She fumes: “So for five months he sits on his hands and does nothing. Now in a late night sort of semi soft shoe shuffle, he moves her sideways to Human Settlements. Human Settlements is important…to millions of South Africans. Is he now suggesting that she’s not okay as the Justice Minister because she’s conflicted and compromised, but she’s fine for the Human Settlement?” Breytenbach also tells viewers what she thinks of the new Justice Minister, and gives an update on the progress of her Anti-Corruption Commission Bill which has been opposed by MKP in Parliament. “Of course, I expected them to have concerns with it because if that legislation goes through, it will impact very directly on a lot of the MK members of Parliament and a lot of the members of their party in particular.”
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Extended transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___
Chris Steyn (00:02.194)
Instead of sacking the Justice Minister, President Cyril Ramaphosa has just given her a different Ministry. Let us hear what Glynnis Breytenbach, the Democratic Alliance spokesperson for Justice and Constitutional Development, thinks of that. Welcome, Glynnis.
Glynnis Breytenbach (00:16.496)
Hi Chris. Yeah, you know, I mean it’s seriously disappointing the President sat on this thing for nearly five months with a deeply compromised, deeply conflicted Justice Minister. Did nothing, dithered, said he needs more time for what the Lord alone knows. And now he does this little sideways shuffle. That’s just an insult to the intelligence of all South Africans. It’s a disgrace really. I mean, there’s nothing to be said about it.
Chris Steyn (00:46.26)
Do you think a sacking would have been justified, Glynnis?
Glynnis Breytenbach (00:50.575)
Certainly everybody serves in the Cabinet at the pleasure of the President. He’s entitled to hire and fire his Cabinet ministers as he sees fit. He shouldn’t have appointed her because, you know, Simelane says that he was aware of this fact that she was compromised when he appointed her. So he shouldn’t have appointed her as the Justice Minister. You can’t have somebody who’s compromised and conflicted as the Justice {ortfolio minister. It’s just, I mean, it beggars the imagination.
But having appointed her and now, you know, this thing broke, then he should have immediately asked her to step aside. She should have asked to step aside of her own volition. Clearly she wasn’t going to do that. Then he should have moved her out of the way.
She’s innocent until proven guilty and that’s an absolute fact. Nobody is saying that she’s guilty of anything. The fact is that there is a lot of stuff out there. It looks very credible. It is being investigated now by variety of institutions. The NPA is involved. The Hawks are investigating, the Public Protector is now looking at it.
You can’t have that compromised conflicted person as the head of the Justice Portfolio. So for five months he sits on his hands and does nothing. Now in a late night sort of semi soft shoe shuffle, he moves her sideways to Human Settlements. Human Settlements is important. It’s important to millions of South Africans. Is he now suggesting that she’s not okay as the Justice Minister because she’s conflicted and compromised, but she’s fine for the Human Settlement. What does that say about how he views Human Settlements? She doesn’t belong in the Cabinet at the moment. She must let this thing run its course and so should he. And once it’s finalised, then you can re-evaluate the position. But right now, she doesn’t belong in Cabinet.
Chris Steyn (02:36.778)
As a former prosecutor, do you think there is a case to answer? That she does have a case to answer?
Glynnis Breytenbach (02:40.341)
I don’t have the permission to say that. I have what everybody else in South Africa has. I’ve read the newspapers. I’ve seen the documents presented by the excellent investigation done by Paulie van Wyk. And it certainly looks like there’s something there.
The Minister’s own explanation to the Portfolio Committee was less than stellar. And clearly, she misled us. The facts that now have emerged that contradict what she told us. So she wasn’t entirely honest, you know, hasn’t been forthcoming with information, which is a concern. And the so-called loan documents that surfaced after some length of time had passed certainly look dodgy.
But I don’t have enough information to sit here and say, yes, there’s a case or not a case. I need to see a properly investigated docket.
Chris Steyn (03:32.33)
What do you make of the new Justice Minister now?
Glynnis Breytenbach (03:35.746)
Well, you know, I’ve known Miss Kubayi for 10 years. She served on the Nkandla Ad Hoc Committee with me, so I know her from there.
She’s had a lot of experience since in Cabinet. I don’t think, I speak under correction, but I don’t think she’s a lawyer, which is a pity. It’s always better to have a Justice Minister who is a lawyer, but her deputy is a lawyer, so that’s not the end of the world.
I’m prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt. Let’s see how things go.
She did make a rather unfortunate statement about the illegal miners who were trapped underground and said that they should be persecuted just a couple of days ago. She may have meant to say prosecuted, but she certainly said persecuted and didn’t correct herself. So that’s a bit of a concern. South Africa is a constitutional democracy with a large emphasis placed on fair administrative practices and the rule of law. So if that is what she meant, she would have to disabuse herself of that kind of notion very quickly.
But let’s give her the benefit of the doubt and see how things go.
Chris Steyn (04:49.97)
Lastly, Glynnis, please give us an update, a progress report on your Anti-Corruption Commission Bill journey through Parliament.
Glynnis Breytenbach (05:00.712)
Well, it’s been presented to the Portfolio Committee. Of course, very predictably, MK objected to it very vociferously and raised some points that are erroneous in law, but nevertheless, they raised some points that they had concerns with it. Of course, I expected them to have concerns with it because if that legislation goes through, it will impact very directly on a lot of the MK members of Parliament and a lot of the members of their party in particular. So I didn’t expect them to be great fans of that legislation.
But if we’d had such a body, if such a body had already been implemented, and really which it should have been some time ago, then we wouldn’t have had this conundrum with the Justice Minister because it would have been independent from the NPA and she wouldn’t have had her sitting on top of the pyramid that deals with the investigation into herself. So it just underlines the fact that we need an independent Chapter Nine institution to deal with large scale corruption and organised crime.
Chris Steyn (05:58.804)
Thank you. That was Glynnis Breytenbach, the Democratic Alliance’s spokesperson for Justice and Constitutional Development speaking to BizNews, and I’m Chris Steyn. Thank you, Glynnis.
Glynnis Breytenbach (06:09.116)
Sure, thanks.
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