Neil De Beer: Keeping up with the Muppets of SA Politics: Ramaphosa, Mashatile, Motshekga, Godongwana, Zuma, Zille…

In the latest Sunday Show with Neil De Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement, and Chris Steyn of BizNews, a range of hot topics are on the agenda: President Cyril Ramaphosa telling Israel and Iran to enter into peaceful dialogue; Finance Minister Enoch Godongwana wanting full public funding for all political parties; the over R200 million spent on international travel by Cabinet members over the past year; Deputy President Paul Mashatile and his wife's accommodation in Japan costing R900,000 for four nights; military officials also splurging on world travel while the South African National Defense Force (SANDF) is sitting with a 41.2 billion Rand budget shortfall; the ongoing chaos at former President Jacob Zuma’s MKP; the likelihood of Democratic Alliance (DA) Federal Council Chair Helen Zille running for Jo’burg Mayor; the Eastern Cape African National Congress (ANC) denying that the regional office hid blankets destined for the victims of the recent disaster in Mthatha; the Bela Bill battle - and the need for a revision of the Constitution. De Beer also shares the results of his Twitter Poll in which 98.2% of respondents said “No” to the National Dialogue. And he delves into the feuds that may see former Zambian President Edgar Lungu buried on South African soil..Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox at 5:30am weekdays. Register here.Support South Africa’s bastion of independent journalism, offering balanced insights on investments, business, and the political economy, by joining BizNews Premium. Register here.If you prefer WhatsApp for updates, sign up to the BizNews channel here.The auditorium doors will open for BNIC#2 on 10 September 2025 in Hermanus. For more information and tickets, click here..Watch here.Listen here.Edited transcript of the interview .Chris Steyn (00:02.532)Welcome to another Sunday Show with Neil De Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement and me, Chris Steyn. Morning, Neil.Neil De Beer (00:13.09)Yeah Chris, very good morning. Getting messages Sunday can't come too quickly. And I'm always saying it can wait. So much research, so much things we have to do in the week to keep it up and it just keeps on piling. But every single moment, every single Sunday, just a privilege to look at what happened in the country in the past week. And Chris, full show, full show this week. So I'm ready.Chris Steyn (00:43.138)Right, let's start with President Cyril Ramaphosa telling Israel and Iran to enter into peaceful dialogue, Neil.Neil De Beer (00:52.524)Yeah, they immediately reacted. Guns were withdrawn, heavy ammunition stored, papers came out, champagne to the table, and a couple of cookies. What a lot of toss. I mean, Chris, we really have to start thinking about the options between fact and reality. Now, when you speak to psychologists and people that work with a mind which still today is probably like the ocean, we still don't know what stuff swim around the deepest sides of the ocean. I equate that as the same as the depth of the person's mind because I don't know about you and the people that follow us, but I am every day surprised about the absolute craziness that sometimes comes out of a person's mind. I am looking at Cyril Cupcake Ramaphosa and I'm saying, does this man have a basis of reality, and I'm not insulting him, I'm telling him, on the global scale, Chris, of where South Africa fits in on certain levels. In other words, our influence in the world, the power we wield, in other words, power will then be broken up into, let's say, military power, boggorol, flat tire, economic power, boggorol, flat tire, the placing of where we are on influence……we had it when the passport we carried was one of the most influential in the 94 era. Also gone. Weg. And then we get this gentleman that sits and he's the master over a country that still has a gray listing over it because our fiscal policies aren't right. Our military is in collapse and we are definitely going to touch on it…Neil De Beer (03:17.326)…because it doesn't seem to sink in there as well. Our joblessness, our labour disputes, our basic incredible implosion laws, all of that. And Cupcake still gets up with a twinkling in his eyes and says he can sort out world peace. Maar jy’s mal? You can't even sort out the current problems that we've got in this country on race, economy, safety and security, and just basic understanding of running a country. And the evidence to that is you've called for a National Dialogue to so-called reset our country, but you want to go and tell Russia, tell Ukraine, tell Israel, tell Hamas, tell Hezbollah, tell Tehran and America…Neil De Beer (04:16.716)…that you demand that they get back to the table. Well, Chris, I'm not going to say it, but our thousands, the more than 250,000 people a week that look at us are all going to surely go, what are you on about? And I think it's becoming a joke now that we think that our interventions on a global scale is actually going to be heeded when the fingers are pointing back at us to say, why don't you go sort out the murders on the Cape Flats that are horrific and that are at times sometimes worse than the deaths in four or five current military operations in the world?Chris Steyn (04:54.608)Well, meanwhile, the South African National Defense Force is sitting with a 41.2 billion Rand shortfall while is a military officials splurge millions on luxury international travel.Neil De Beer (05:16.238)Yeah, the party's up. Yeah, dit gaan lekker. It's going well. The drinks flowing, the fuel's going, the visits are being celebrated. And, and shocking. But so shocking, Chris, that you've got to wash your face three times and still look where you missed the spot. Because I must tell you something, Chris. I am starting to get a feeling that the normal South African and our people, the moderate thinking person in this country has become so numb to what we expose on a Sunday that the only thing they can do is type and go, aye, here we go again, or is it real? Well, if it's on this show, it's real. Now, let me tell you. They finally get everybody out of the DRC, which was a shambles on its own story. Angie Motshekga running around and accepting hundreds and hundreds of lines of soldiers coming back after the horrific area and she's wearing tekkies. She's wearing trainers probably to get fit to run up and down to greet everybody. But what a farce. Secondly, I don't think she knows where's Bloemfontein. And the reason I say that is because aircraft were supposed to land in Bloem and then got directed back to Waterkloof. Now kyk Bloemfontein lê iewers hier, Angie, it's called Mangaung en Waterkloof is in Pretoria. Three days in the news, how embarrassing. Then lastly, they tell us that it's going to take us months and months to get our tanks, our Ratels, our cannons back to our country. What a Defense Force.Neil De Beer (07:27.222)I mean, no wonder, we got stuck where we got stuck. And then they complain every day. They have no more money. And to load on that, I don't know if you saw the latest news, except for the 400 and whatever million deficit, the new aircraft of the president for its service requires 400 million. Now take all of those deficits. In other words, it's a company. It's called SA Army Pty Ltd. Hey, you are bankrupt. You should be in business rescue because your income is being overlapped by your expenditure. And Chris, do you think it stops them from getting onto an airplane and going to Sweden, going to Italy and going to China and the total costs is 300,000, 575,000 and 695,000R Rand only on three trips coming to a cumulative expenditure of another 2 million Rand wasted expenditure. To do what? What did you go do in China? What did you go do in Sweden? And why did you go and attend a conference in Italy when we have nothing to do with them in actual fact, we are in trouble here. So, Chris, the military has become a joke. The generals have become more than the soldiers. And it is as if we are sitting every day and saying to ourselves that we still have the right to go tell other powerful nations in the world what to do militarily.The era of a strong, one of the strongest armies on the African continent prior to 94, still 98, I would push it to 2000, has now collapsed and has disappeared. And I would say to the Parliamentary Portfolio Committee that they must now get up and they must immediately freeze all these expenditures…Neil De Beer (09:46.388)…all of the matters regarding international trips - and they should refocus on building a SANDF which we can be proud of and which the people that serve in it can feel that they are actually worth something.Chris Steyn (10:02.64)Still on expensive international travel. Cabinet has paid over 200 million in the past year, and Deputy President Paul Mashatile and his wife's accommodation in Japan must take the cake. What was it, 900,000 for four nights?Neil De Beer (10:19.473)235,000 Rand a night. The one bill is 234,000 Rand a night for him qne hiw wife and in another one 328,000 Rand a night. What in the hell are you paying for? I mean, Chris, with respect, 325,000 Rand is quite a deposit into a house that will cost you 1.8 to 3 million. Is ’n huis se prys…Neil De Beer (10:47.982)…a night. Now Chris, he goes to Japan, don't know why, you know, maybe the dim sum is too good. Or he's gone to find out how to spell wagyu. Maar wragtig! What the hell has he gone to do in Japan? Has he gone to find out the techniques of sushi or has he really gone there to find out what is the true meaning of kamakazi? Because it cost him 900,000 Rand to go to Japan so that he can represent our country there. And if I was there, I would slip in 1.2 kilogram of wasabi in everything that he eats so that his nose, his ears, and maybe his brain can open because 900,000 Rand with accolade to go there and then to come back and then, Chris, we hear a further 2 million, another 3 million that his expenses is nearly up to 7.9 million. Now, just think about it Chris. I mean, when I was in corporate three years ago and I had the privilege to travel the world, I stayed in hotels in Barcelona, in London, in Europe, in Germany. I stayed there and Chris, my average spent for a great room, a fantastic room was between 2.5 to 3,200 Rand in top strategic hotels and I lived the King's life. 300,000! What does that get you? So his explanation is that you know when they go there, they've got to ensure that the public face of South Africa, that our image, the optics is correct. Nou vat daai optics en dan vat jy nou Vaseline, dan optics jy jouself in ’n private plek…Because 329,000 Rand, if you just take that per night, and I'm sorry to tell you that, but how many people can you feed?Neil De Beer (13:08.552)…this is thousands of people. We are being told that the reason Paul Mashatile is flying around the world either to build protocol to establish our detenté or by the behest of the president to attend is why he is doing what he is doing. But here's a question Chris, he's only bringing back receipts. We are not seeing currently what is the benefit of spending three, five, eight million rand in the past two years? They say that since June 2024, allegedly until today, his bill is nearly eight million of traveling the world. And then he goes there and he poses on a picture, bright and sharply with Vladimir Putin. Well, I looked at Vladimir Putin and I think Putin was thinking… Who the hell is this? Is it worth it? No. Is it absolutely a waste of money? Yes. Again, is it shocking that we pay for it as taxpayers? Absolutely. And they do it blatantly as if everything is fine.Chris Steyn (14:24.624)And now the Finance Minister wants full public funding for all political parties.Neil De Beer (14:32.204)Yeah, he's definitely gone into the Cabinet and it's not the political cabinet. He's gone into the drink cabinet. The only reason why a person would get up at an IEC meeting about funding and bring up a suggestion like this is because you are critically and in Afrikaanse woord dof. Jy is dof. This is the second dof moment of Enoch Godongwana in the aspect of one year. Now look, I don't know. We all have blonde and dumb moments. I don't know if it's politically correct to say blonde and dumb. But you know what they say about redheads. So the problem that we've got now, Chris, is this is his second dof moment. The first one was VAT. And he got so on his moer that he decided, no, he's not going to do that. So he puts it there. And here we go. Ching Ching dof moment number two. He says that in his opinion, government must fund political parties because they are becoming, let's call it targets for influence of private business and individuals. Hey, that's the notebook of definition of ANC. When you look at ANC in the Oxford dictionary, it spells out a party multibly owned, paid for, bribed and corrupted by private individuals and companies. Gupta. So he now says, no, no, no, way we're going to get away from this is ensure that government funds political parties so that it can be independent. Luister gou-gou vir my. You can ma tell me what you want. Maar afval is afval and skaapkop is skaapkop. So I don't know, Chris, the fact that a Minister of Finance can sit in a country that is seen as one of the most corrupt is now going to say, let government fund you and you'll stop being corrupt and you'll be independent thinking.I think it was a late night braai and I think there was a lot of yeast involved in a lot of beer. I don't know if he drinks alcohol, if he doesn’t, dan’t hy ’n Disprin vasgebyt, but this is not normal…Neil De Beer (16:57.696)…and cannot be understood by people like us. The last thing that you want is government to interfere in the independence of a democracy which they are already doing, Chris. And then he ends off by saying that he's also very worried that the IEC is starting to become involved in politics, like investigating transgressions of political parties. I don't know. This is Coocoo La La Land. He lives in his own land and you know what is the worst? He runs our money and that should be absolutely scary to us.Chris Steyn (17:39.76)Now, Neil, over to former President Jacob Zuma's MKP. It's a bit like the Zuma version of Keeping Up with the Kardashians. Netflix will probably be having a Keeping Up with the Zuma soon. The chaos.Neil De Beer (18:02.158)Chris, I don't know what it is because it's starting to look like a clear pattern. You know, I said to a person the other day, I am very scared in character of people that are not stable.Let me give you an example. If the one day you're OK and the next day you're not OK, but you do that every day, you are stable, because then I know what to expect. But if you are a person that is like this to people today and like that and then totally different the next day and then the next day totally different again, I don't trust your algorithm. But if you look at it, the instability, the absolute circus that happens within this party has actually become stable to us, if that makes sense. It's become normal. So they've gone through six secretary generals. They have now gone through, think, their fourth or fifth chief whip. They declared that this gentleman that they are now going to remove as Secretary General transgressed on a certain bunch of issues. Oopsie. He has a pressure, not a depressure. He goes and has a press meeting. Woo! Chris, this is like having a New Year's function and your uncle who's an alcoholic is invited by accident.Neil De Beer (19:52.372)And after the third bottle of Richelieu starts standing up and telling every family member who they are, what they did, and what he knows about them. …Die Nuwe Jaar is very, and that uncle is suddenly in a Uber.That man comes up and he says he's going to tell everybody every…, and because it's Oprah, everybody's getting something. He talks about people taking drugs. He talks about a very prominent person who we all know who he was talking about, Duduzile, that there's a certain very high up member who at the daytime takes drugs and at the night starts twittering and telling them all a bit of…jy weet wat.He talks about seven million Rand that's already been siphoned out of the MKP. He talks about people around the old man taking advantage and absolutely ridiculous intelligence reports to remove people. Chris, this comes all out at a press release and a press conference. And now you sit with nine new parliamentary members. That's now been changed in the Parliament, one of them an ex-EFF member, and he's not on the list. Floyd Shivambo did not get deployed to Parliament. So at the presser, he says he's going to go on another National Dialogue. Weet nie wat is dit met hierdie mense nie. And he's going to go listen if there needs another party. Maar is jy nou dom? You can just Google. People are gatvol. They don't want parties anymore. They want it to be stable. And then he says, but he's not leaving MKP. Doesn't that sound familiar? Isn't that the words of Jacob Zuma? I founded a new party, but I will not leave the ANC. They're starting to sound like Biblical twins. So Chris, that is what's happened this week…Neil De Beer (22:03.742)…at the uMkhonto weSizwe Party.We also hear, and I think you have more clarity on that, that one of the founding members of MKP, they tried to remove him again. And they tried to kick another member out and they fought and I don't know, I think the outcome of the court case was that it was overturned. They can't kick him out, he must stay. So this rocky road, this continual change is in actual fact not going to stop. I can declare that. People are saying the old man's getting dementia and he's getting a little bit old. Yes, he is. I still say that no matter what happens to him, two, three years from now, if he doesn't make it, MKP will still be a very worrying factor that will not go away and that we will have to watch very close. And the other little thing that popped out, Chris, was they actually fired Floyd Shivambu because he went apparently to Shepherd Bushiri, who is currently a wanted fugitive in South Africa for skipping bail, to his church in Malawi. That was the charge sheet. And lo and behold, Floyd Shivambu says on a public press release, but Jacob Zuma in a meeting room in Namibia authorised my visit to go see Shepherd Bushiru. So Chris, cat out back, tiger out of bag, they're trying to put back in another lion, but the tiger and a lion, they don't amuse themselves in a bag. So, ek dink you’re going to see a lot of scratch marks, but the Duduzile continually coming back as the person who actually runs that party.Chris Steyn (23:55.268)Now, Neil, you and I haven't spoken about Democratic Alliance, Federal Council Chair, Helen Zille's ambitions for Johannesburg. Your thoughts?Neil De Beer (24:05.804)Yeah, that's like having a two-litre Fanta, 13 brandies and then turning around the next morning and saying I've got gout. I think all the people in Johannesburg, in the ANC and in that conclave of the City Council, instantaneously all got gout either on their knee or a worse place, your big toe. Now, if you've never had gout, let me quickly tell you, it is like 900 people sticking needles at a specific place because they don't like you and you can't do anything. You become a baby. When Helen Zille no fanfare, no bombs, no thunder, no lightning said, hmm, I think I’m going to run for Joburg Mayor. Chris, did you see earthquake Richterscale 7? It went viral. And all she said was I'm contemplating running for mayor. It was a matter of minutes…Neil De Beer (25:20.77)…before the world went viral, politics went to go standstill for two, three days, and it was just this discussion about, can you imagine Helen Zille going back to Joburg Council and becoming Mayor? Now, there are three parts of this story. One, if you're currently a political party outside the DA in Joburg Council, I would lose sleep.Number two, if you are a person currently who has taken chances by coming in late, leaving early and scrounging through a couple of checkbooks, I wouldn't sleep. And if I were the people of Johannesburg in its entirety, I would say that if you had to have Helen Zille back in Johannesburg, that I could sleep. You know, my opinion about Helen has always been no matter the occasion, no matter the matter, is that you know that I have a great affinity for her work. I have a great affinity for her strategic mind. And Helen doesn't just come up one morning and say blue, green. This is thought about.This is the - and I'm sorry to say, for the rest of the DA, if anybody else had to get up and say I'll do the Mayorship of Joburg, it's a flat bet. I would say it's a non-starter. But the name, Helen Zille, you've got to stop and go, ooh. Because that city doesn't just need a turnaround. It needs a miracle. Because it's gone.So I can see the DA strategically starting to already work on who will be the people that they would put as candidacy onto the poll next year for Mayor. So Cape Town is secure with Geordin Hill-Lewis. I can bet you over 90% Cilliers Brink will be again the candidate in Tshwane…Neil De Beer (27:46.982)And if it's not so, that will be a stupid thing to do. And if you have Helen going for Joburg, then you have got out of the seven or eight metros, you already have more than a third. And I think that is the strategy being played.I can now confirm after reading a couple of stuff and being told that it's now more than 50 per cent that she's going to go and stand. And you know what, Chris?Neil De Beer (28:16.077)Maybe like she does at the NGU, the GNU, the UGG, the canoe, maybe we need a bit of a shake up. So that she can do. And yeah, let's see what Godzilla does.Chris Steyn (28:34.088)Still in the provinces, Neil, in the Eastern Cape, the African National Congress there has issued a statement denying that the regional office hid blankets destined for the victims of the recent disaster in Mthatha.Neil De Beer (28:48.544)I think they hid more than blankets, I think they hid IQ. And I think they needed a different unit to go find it.Firstly, think, it is only good for us, only prudent, only human to say that the Sunday Show's greatest prayers and all our thinking and thoughts with those who lost loved ones. It is a disaster. So it's not the Eastern Cape disaster. It became a South African disaster. So I think it's only right that we say our sincere condolences to everybody. But then the Moermeter, you know my Moermeter, automatically goes up.Five things. They were not prepared. Now you can say, how do you prepare for a disaster? How do you prepare for magnitude? You prepare. That's what preparation means. That if it does happen, you are prepared for the inevitable. You will never be 100% ready, but your disaster management programmes must be in place. And this was a failure.Number two, we had to start begging, asking for outside organisational relief. And therefore people like Gift of the Givers or no matter who they are and like them or not, these people had to come in and take over more than three quarters of the relief that government should do.Neil De Beer (30:32.651)Then Chris, as you physically see bridges collapse, cars going down rivers, houses falling apart, bodies being recovered, still today, yeah. They put on the TV a man representing government. The person of SABC says what is your reflection about this road that's not been completed? It's nearly 11 years and that and that. And you know what this guy says? He says it's currently a work in progress. You can physically see a tree go past him at the back in the water and he goes, well, you know, this for the ANC is a work in progress. That's the gentleman's comment about the failure of infrastructure in the most undeveloped and dilapidated province in this country. Now, Chris, Eastern Cape boggles your mind. You would think an area where most of your presidents come from, starting with Mandela…whose house is in Qunu, which is two kilometers out of Umtata. You would think that when President Mandela became the President, he would fix Umtata. They did nothing. President Mbeki, born in a town called Idutywa, absolutely dilapidated. So president after president found it very difficult to look after their own.Neil De Beer (32:26.772)No one has focused on the Eastern Cape since they took away Republic of Transkei, Republic of Ciskei, Republic of Bophuthatswana, all they did was they took the borders away and they made it the Eastern Cape. And there's nothing. I remember an old person, I won't mention his name in Apartheid, said we gave them their homelands, but what we did was give them the most fertile ground actually in South Africa. I know about it because I, as you know within the years of Struggle, I was there a lot.This is a work in progress. Well, let me quickly tell you, stop it. It's a disaster. And that's the problem with our country, SOEs, finances, debt, jobs, security, leadership is seemingly still a 30-year work in progress.Chris Steyn (33:23.984)So, so with the Constitutional Court, Neil. You mentioned it this week.Neil De Beer (33:31.182)Yeah… 30 years old, 30 years old, an amount of laws, the amount of judgments, the amount of presidential turnovers of judge presidents, and we still suck. So Chris, when I wrote an article the one day that I believe it's time to review the Constitution, there were so many diverse opinions.Now I said that 30 years after the fall of Apartheid and the writing of the Constitution, the Apex Court of this country is the Constitutional Court.And in my opinion, humble opinion, I've listened to Judge Albie Sachs, who was one of the big contributors to the founding of the Constitution. And I summarise in one of his presentations, not his words, was that the Constitutional Court, the Apex Court, was also to give oversight over current laws, test them, and see if they stand the Litmus Test against the Constitution. Now, if we really sit back, Chris, we have the most liberal….Neil De Beer (35:03.788)…most humanitarian Constitution in the world.It was written in the period of time of mayhem, a period where people were coming out of Apartheid, people that were hurt, people that were upset on all sides. So they wrote a Constitution, in my opinion, that over exceeded the possibility again of the flaunting of human rights. But, 30 years later, Chris, when we look at this fine Constitution that comes out of Europe that was based on a country's constitution at the end of the day, and if I'm not wrong it was Sweden. Now you know, when you go to Sweden, there's not much of human rights abuse, murder, mayhem and domestic war.Chris, three questions. One, does the Constitution of South Africa still today protect and defend the rights of human beings? Physically?Neil De Beer (36:16.77)Does the Constitution of this country truly bring equity, freedom and equality? And thirdly, does the Constitution of this country make the people that were born in this country and that live here comfortable to say that we are safe, full of hope - and love our country? That's my three circles around the Constitution. And I'm sorry to tell you if you took a 10-10-10 on all of them, not one of them are hitting three on my scorecard. Again, that's my scorecard. If we're going to have a National Dialogue for 700 million Rand, and Chris let me quickly tell you, I took my Twitter handle, my X, I put out a a poll, 3,980 people took part in one day. When I asked, do you or do you not support a National Dialogue? 98.2 % No.Now that's not big, that's not saying anything, but just on my test, there's a total, total scenario of rejection of this National Dialogue. So I would have wondered if they do a National Dialogue to talk about what's wrong and how to fix it, which they are not, why can't they do a Constitutional Review? So yes, happy birthday, Constitution, 30 years old, but not good enough. I think we need a Review in the Constitution. I think we need to look at our laws because currently just on one matter, Chris, do you feel that you have equality…Neil De Beer (38:10.112)…the same rights as Chris Steyn in this country to all others, you must intellectually answer is No. And until we haven't done that, I don't think we can rest.Chris Steyn (38:25.27)While we're on laws, Neil, the Bela Act. Is the bell tolling?Neil De Beer (38:31.938)Die pot kook. Ooh. You know, they are very big specialists in this country about Potjiekos. They write more books about Potjiekos than how to fix a Toyota. But let me quickly tell you, they are those that says Moer alles in een keer. Los. Then there's people that want to stir Potjiekos to death. I'm one of those I do middle. I check because probably I'm too hungry when I'm making a Potjie.But you know when a Potjie is getting to the point when you can hear prprprpr…And when you lift it, the steam is going up. The Bela Bill is in a potjie. Nou let me explain. The poor DA feistily goes in there and says de hel with Bela.And if your daughter or your dog or whatever was called Bella in that period of time, my apology. Maar Bela het op sy moer gekry because it was Bela this and Bela that and we against Bela and we'll go to court and then we heard but you know, the Bela Act was not actually done in the period of the GNU. It was done in the fifth or the sixth, I think the sixth term. And we couldn't stop it. The President…Neil De Beer (39:58.542)So, okay, Bela Act goes. President signs it. And then they make Siviwe (Gwarube), the minister in charge, who is a DA minister, but a Cabinet minister of Ramaphosa, she must implement this. And you heard the harsh words from Paul Mashatile if she doesn't want to implement it, we'll fire her. And Cyril saying that she serves under the behest of the president and she must implement. Implement is the word. The DA says, might be born at night, but not last night. So Helen says the strategy is that taking the Bela Act and physically implementing it in true life. The person that must write, and I'm using my own words, the operational guideline is the minister, not the president and not the act. So they can say that we want a car, the car must look like this, and that car must go out now. But the person that says the steering wheel is there, the lights are there, the flicker light does that or that is the minister. And that was their tactic to stall it. That was their tactic to say this takes a long time, hey, to write the operational implementation manual, to transfer it to schools, to get it all done will take us a year. That's why I don't like test cricket. Sorry, I like one day because test cricket block block block. But then there's people that love it. They playing test cricket with Bela. But now people are starting to say in the crowd, hey, hit something, man.Neil De Beer (42:06.166)And we saw this week certain members of Parliament from the ANC starting to go up and say, hey, what happened to the Bela Bill? And minister, when are you implementing? So we had this period of potjie. Now it's starting to bubble. And I think this is going to become, you know, when you're very hungry and you open the potjie, and you take a mushroom and you go… I think very soon we're going to have a …. because the people are going to go, you're playing us and this is going to become another hot potato or mushroom.Chris Steyn (42:47.984)Now, Neil, we have a former president of Zambia, Edgar Lungu, who is going to be buried in South Africa. I think a first for a foreign president to be interned here, if I'm right.Neil De Beer (43:05.906)That we know of. Chris, shocking. And the most shocking of all is I met him. I know him. We worked in my time at the IFA, the Fund for Africa. I spent a couple of days with President Edgar Lunga in Zambia. And this is what happens, the family and the new President of Zambia, who was an absolute arch enemy of Lunga, have a fall-out. The testament of Edgar Lunga is read in public and one of the conditions is that the current sitting president may not come to his funeral. Okay, that's crazy because he was the sixth president of that republic. He came to our country because he was terminallly ill. He didn't make it back. So the repatriation of the president of Zambia retired must go back. A State funeral must be given, et cetera, et cetera.And because I know him in that sense, I started to dig into the story because as you know, this is shocking. This is like President Mbeki…Neil De Beer (44:34.668)…going to have a visit in Spain and he dies there and Ramaphosa says, which I must tell you I wouldn't put past him, that we're not bringing him back, he must be buried in Madrid because the family don't agree. So the family totally rejects the current presidency's attitude. Chris, on the 18th of June, this week, there is an agreement that he gets put on a plane, his remains and with full South African honour leaves the country. So at six o'clock apparently on the 18th in the morning, full military unit ceremonial is deployed. A red carpet is rolled out. The top echelon of the SANDF, all 750,000 generals, they are all there. DIRCO is there and the media. Ceremony to start at eight. No coffin. Nine o'clock, declared delay. No coffin. And by 12 o'clock.Neil De Beer (45:55.736)Project cancelled. It's not happening. Now we hear that Zambia is saying that the reason they are not taking part in all of this is not just the fight between the Zambian presidency and the family, but because a couple of weeks ago, he declared he's coming out of retirement and he's going to run next year against the current president. And what do they do? They take away all his presidential rights: bodyguards, medical aid, support staff, escorts, salary. They actually cancel it. So they now say, this is a civilian. He's been absolutely declared as a presidential human being as persona non grata, and therefore this is a family matter. So yes, Chris, the latest I've now heard, they are...talking again because it's an embarrassment for that country to deny, no matter if you like him or not, a ex-president. So I hear they're talking, but as per the factual date and release, the sixth official president of the Republic of Zambia, Edgar Lungu, will be buried on South African soil.Chris Steyn (49:34.96)Thank you, Neil. That was Neil de Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement on the very popular Sunday Show. With me, Chris Steyn. Thank you, Neil.

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