Election observer Masuku unpacks Venezuela’s election amid fraud allegations, riots and controversy
Riots broke out in Venezuela following the presidential election on Sunday. BizNews spoke to one of South Africa's election observers there. In this interview, Madala Masuku, the Deputy SG of the South African Communist Party (SACP), gives a detailed explanation of the election system that is both electronic and manual, and shares the observations from polling day. He relates how President Nicolás Maduro had given foreign observers the assurance that he would accept defeat if he was voted out. Masuku also speaks about the "political jealousies" in the country; the role of contesting foreign interests; as well as the devastation sanctions wreaked on the economy.
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Highlights from the interview
In the aftermath of Venezuela's recent presidential election, riots have erupted, with significant unrest reported. BizNews spoke with Mr. Madala Masuku, deputy secretary-general of the South African Communist Party (SACP) and an election observer in Venezuela. Masuku, accompanied by officials from various South African organizations, including COSATU and CONTRALESA, reported on the election process and the subsequent turmoil.
Masuku praised the Venezuelan electoral system, highlighting the seamless integration of manual and electronic voting methods. He described a process where voters use both ID verification and thumbprint scanning to cast their votes, with real-time results displayed electronically. He noted that 80% of votes were verified against manual counts, sparking protests from opposition parties demanding full verification.
Despite observing long lines and a well-organized voting process, Masuku acknowledged the significant protests driven by allegations of fraud from the main opposition party. He pointed out that the political landscape in Venezuela is complicated by both internal factions and external influences, notably from the US and other Western countries, due to Venezuela's vast natural resources.
Masuku also mentioned the economic hardships faced by Venezuelans, exacerbated by sanctions and decreased oil production. He commended the Venezuelan president's direct engagement with citizens and his commitment to transparency during the election process. Despite the ongoing unrest, Masuku and other international observers felt that the elections were conducted within the legal framework and emphasized the importance of complying with the electoral act and constitution.
Extended transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___
Chris Steyn (00:03.411)
Riots have broken out in Venezuela following the presidential election. We speak to one of South Africa's election observers in that country right now, Mr. Madala Masuku. Welcome, Sir.
Madala masuku SACP (00:18.51)
Good afternoon. I don't know whether it's an afternoon or morning. Good afternoon. I think it's afternoon. Good afternoon and good afternoon to the listeners.
Chris Steyn (00:23.497)
It's afternoon
Chris Steyn (00:33.085)
Sir, how many South African election observers are there?
Madala masuku SACP (00:39.182)
There's a number of them, but those that we are interacting with mostly is around 25, and they are invited by different people.
Chris Steyn (00:50.405)
Okay, you are the deputy SG of the South African Communist Party. Where are the others from?
Madala masuku SACP (00:57.677)
We have got the General Secretary of COSATU and also Comrade Obed Bapela from the ANC. There are members of CONTRALESA here and members of the CASUVE, the campaign network against blockade in Venezuela and also in the other areas.
Madala masuku SACP (01:31.585)
But with us here, if we talk about the Alliance, it's the three of us.
Madala masuku SACP (01:43.69)
I see there was a reconnection. Did you lose me?
Chris Steyn (01:46.582)
We lost each other a little bit, but here we are back with you. You were saying, Sir.
Madala masuku SACP (01:52.02)
Yeah, I was saying that it's our staff from the SACP and Comrade Obed Bapela from the ANC, the general secretary of COSATU, Solly Phetoe. And we also have CONTRALESA around here. They're invited by different institutions. We have Abahlali Basemjondolo from KZN invited by another.
IEC officials, I saw them here, they are invited by the Electoral Council…
Chris Steyn (02:35.645)
Okay, and you were all on the ground at the polling stations. Can you please tell us what you observed?
Madala masuku SACP (02:38.516)
It's a very exciting system that they've been building over time. Had lot of voters. Voters came in, in their numbers. By six o'clock, there was just so many long lines. According to us, wherever we've gone, it looks like there was a normal national elections, good relationship between people and the officials that are responsible for the elections.
And what was also exciting, we went inside there and we think, I just think that in South Africa we could have that. You walk in there as a voter, you give in your ID and they like the usual thing that they do with us. But in them, they've got an additional one. You put in your thumb in an electronic book. And then when you put it in your thumb, it confirms that you are, and it opens the booth for you to actually vote there. When you arrive there, because they are using both the manual and the electronic system for checking. So when you go into the booth, it only opens for you, and it shows you, here are the candidates. Do you want, which one do you choose? You choose, and it says, Are you sure?
And then you press, rather pressing, you also come up with a slip that you put in into the box that shows who did you vote for and you put it in a slip. And exciting is that when the voting is done, the number pops in for how many people actually put in their thumb that are confirmed. And then it gives you how many people voted, and who voted for who.
Madala masuku SACP (04:40.104)
So the results, immediately they are closing, they just show in the screen. So when they talk about counting…I think you have heard about counting. Now, the counting, the numbers are actually out, but the counting they're talking about, they've got in their Constitution that they are supposed to do verification. And the minimum they have, they say, for you to verify, just take 30% randomly, and then check if what is in the box is actually related to that. But they have decided to do 80% of that. So the result that they were announcing was saying, we have got the electronic results. We have verified them. We have put in 80%. So it's important that, Chris, you know that the violence, the protest is about the protestors saying, no, no, we might have been robbed, count the other 20 percent. So it's not about the rest. To verify the 100 percent rather than the only 80 percent. So that's the, that's where they are now. So it's really exciting. Yeah.
Chris Steyn (05:52.723)
So, where you were and from what you could see, you didn't pick up any irregularities.
Madala masuku SACP (05:59.878)
No, we didn't pick up anything. We don't know. mean, if people want to do irregularities, they are probably not going to show you. But we're just saying the system itself, the way it is, it just nullifiy that. Because if you say, if the system comes out electronically, they show you these are the numbers. And they say, don't announce the result before you do 30. And then they announce at 80.
Chris Steyn (06:11.826)
Yes.
Madala masuku SACP (06:29.605)
And the protestors are saying, no, no, don't verify, you didn't verify 100%, so verify 100%. So to us it's like, well, this is neither here or there. Because if they were contesting that when we were verifying there were problems, then it was something else.
Chris Steyn (06:48.297)
So we are obviously seeing some footage of the rioting there. Is it as bad as it looks?
Madala masuku SACP (06:52.898)
No, there is riot. There are riots here. And they started very small and they escalated. And we're talking to one journalist here who was sharing to us that she went into the other area where they've got a stronghold of the opposition. And it was bad. There were many. It was violence, and the way people that got affected in that. So there is that response like that. We know that it is like that.
But on our part, we say, because we are here ourselves as this participant, for instance, myself, I've been here many times, so to read and understand what that's how that system is. And we also share views on how to behave like people that are actually serving the people and are serving in the interest of the people. So we share notes. When we come here, it's not like a friend. We just look at a friend. We tell the friend, yeah, yeah, no, I'm not happy. Like last time, we pointed out on something and they have improved it now.
Chris Steyn (08:10.007)
And what was that?
Madala masuku SACP (08:12.547)
What we had pointed out, it was the last time what they were having, is that they were having, I think it was about the physical, when you enter the physical verification, the list, to say, as much as you have it in an electronic, can you show it in a list so that you can, if anything goes wrong, and you get hacked, you are able to go back to the list and be able to make cross-references to whether your system was consistent or not. And they did that in this one. Yeah.
Chris Steyn (08:50.151)
They did that. So you are satisfied the system is not fallible when it comes to the counting.
Madala masuku SACP (08:58.614)
Yeah, looks like, mean, when look at it, it is like that because you know you have got party agents on our side. We have party agents who are like watching. They have those. And then beyond that, they have got party agents who are IT specialists coming from the different parties. So when they say they are verifying, they're actually verifying. The experts are there and say, and they say, yes, there hasn't been any hacking, there hasn't been any disturbance in these numbers. So when they say they're verified, it's not like officials on their own doing it. It's experts of the different parties. So we can't, maybe later on, because technical people are there, they're busy with that, when they conclude, maybe they will be able to say, yeah, maybe they, but to us, how possible is that?
If I come from the Communist Party and I'm guarding the interests of the Communist Party, why would I have a problem if something is not actually done correctly? All of them are agreeing that it's done correctly. 30% have done right, the 80% have done right. They just want the 20% to be concluded. So it's not about the system. So it's like, yeah, we just want to satisfy ourselves that it's fully done.
But to an ordinary person, like an ordinary person in the street who has been suffering, blockage, has been hungry, and others are like their families are outside of here trying to find a different life, that doesn't mean anything. Those facts aren't meaning anything. I'm hungry, and this government has been here, and my conditions are not right, and then you have that.
It's not only us. There are about 900 observers from about 100 countries here. So they are also having, they are doing that opinion. And according to them, when we interacted with them yesterday, they didn't seem to be having anything to be done to do with that.
Madala masuku SACP (11:24.167)
And what was interesting was that even the, think Maduro himself, he addressed us and he said, no, these are elections, Venezuelan elections. There people from Venezuela. I have a view and we have a view with my party in terms of how they must run there. And, but they are the ones who must decide. And I'm ready. If they take me out, I'm ready to accept that and I've accepted that many times so it should not be a problem. So for me when you have leaders saying that, I don't know what could be that bad.
Chris Steyn (12:06.203)
So the complaints about or the allegations about fraud comes from the main opposition party, is that correct?
Madala masuku SACP (12:11.395)
It comes from the opposition party. But we must also be clear, in this country the contestation is not only the people alone. There is contestation even of other interests from other countries, because this country is rich and I don't think South Africans know how rich this country. It has got petroleum, it has got oil, and it has been living on oil. It has got mineral deposits that haven't been touched. So you can imagine that everybody is fighting for this. By the way, this is a region that has got an abundance of water that they need to supply to the northern part of the country. So it's all these. So the interests are actually contesting there. We should not leave out that aspect.
Chris Steyn (13:17.341)
So tell us which foreign interests do you think are competing here?
Madala masuku SACP (13:22.32)
We do have the West and the US is clear about it has been there, it been fighting and even the blockade was about it. Even now, although in the background they are negotiating to settle that difference that they having. And then we have others that are friends of the US, your Paraguay, your Uruguay, your Peru government and they have got all those Dominican Republic who are also throwing weight around…
And in our political analysis, ourselves as the Communist Party, is that one of the things that we have seen is that they are political jealousies. So there's a group that is moving and so with the people who are Chavistas. So within the Chavistas, we also have others. We are not better Chavistas. We are better Chavistas ourselves, and we think that we are betraying the cause of Chavistas.
And you also have others that are saying, we are not these Chavistas that are left and they are Socialist and all these, we don't want to see that nonsense. And we think that government must change. So it's a normal societal engagement that we see around here. And you can't say this one is right or that one. The only right thing is whether are they complying with their own constitutions and the framework of their electoral act. That's the way we aim.
And according to us, all the systems that they have put, they have complied with the Electoral Act. And they have complied with what is required in their Constitution. So the other thing is just contestation.
Chris Steyn (15:07.241)
Okay, you have obviously engaged with citizens, people on the ground. What are living conditions like there now and what's the mood?
Madala masuku SACP (15:16.345)
The living conditions here, they are unilateral like sanctions. So if we are to leave Valenzuelans on their own, if we are to leave them on their own, they've been using their petrol to subsidise for their education, for their create, allow companies to have an investment. They have got a very interesting arrangement here that when you come in to invest, 30% is for us, for the people. So we have a shareholding of 30% as government – and the people. So, that money, they put it like at home where you had the President talking about a Sovereign Fund…So they put that like a Sovereign Fund for the development of community, communities…
But not because of the sanctions, they're not producing oil. They have moved down to very low levels of production of oil, and the inflation has moved very high. One orange now is like 40 cents. The last time I came here, there was, when the PSUV, the governing government, the governing party lost the elections that time. They lost it because of toilet paper. So there was a protest by business that was supplying toilet paper because they were all American companies and they decided to close the warehouses and people were angry and they voted out the government.
So it's a lot of dynamics that are dealing with here which we as a country can learn on in order how to make sure that in the future we should serve their interests.
But what we like about the president that has been elected, is his interaction, his connection with the people is incredible. You you talk to him, he addresses us as international bodies who are like big in the room, 1,000 over ,000, and sitting there and address us and say, welcome, and the elections are here. Please help us where you might have observed problems.
Madala masuku SACP (17:45.365)
It's one to improve because our forefathers said we must serve the people and we must make sure that we are serving them within the governance principle, assist us to deal with that when are around. And then there he is, he's sitting, talking to us and he says, hang on, there are a lot of calls coming in here and it looks like it's coming from a specific area. There might be people having a problem. Can you give me some few minutes to…He answers the call there. And he talks to those people as we are talking to him and he says, there was a problem, Minister So-and-S0 so can you quickly go to that area and assist that people, get your people to go there. So it's like very exciting. I mean, very exciting. I mean, yesterday when he was accepting the elections, he's talking to the nation, he's talking to the observers after the election. He says, I'm worried in a very short time, I've got 200, 200 WhatsApps, must be a crisis in the country. Can you give me just to check through and see what it is? And he checked one or two things. And then he says, do you allow me to send the voice notes to them? Please. And then he says, please I'm talking to our people that are coming from outside here where I am. Like you have seen me in the TV. Please, can I give you so and so? Can you talk to so and so so that when we finish here, we can finish up? You know, it's out of the place. It just blows your mind.
Chris Steyn (19:19.187)
How long are you still going to be there, Sir?
That would be the between by tomorrow, we the going back. coming back.
Chris Steyn (19:26.759)
Okay. Well, I hope I hope you make it to the airport. There's no disturbance on the way to the airport.
Madala masuku SACP (19:34.707)
We are hoping, I think they do manage because there are people that are managing. One of the questions that they asked the President was to say, there is protest outside and people are being disturbed. Why do you allow that? He says, no, we are in a democracy that has two phases. We need to engage with the people and check what it is that they are having a problem with. It's only those go incorrigible beyond because there might be people that are doing things without understanding what this is. We must explain to them how is this process going. And maybe they might have seen something that you didn't do right and you must accept that. Yeah.
Chris Steyn (20:20.957)
Thank you. Thank you. That was Mr. Madala Masuku, the deputy SG of the South African Communist Party, speaking to BizNews after the presidential election in Venezuela. Thank you, Sir. I'm Chris Steyn
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