SA’s top two schools extend lead in annual ranking of the best MBA course
The Financial Mail's annual MBA issue, currently on the shop's shelves, is the year's best seller. That emerged in this interview Gugulethu Mfuphi and I had today with the magazine's David Furlonger and GIBS's Dr Nicola Kleyn. Furlonger told me off air that it's not only potential students and parents who grab the issue, but also business schools themselves – so highly do they regard the ratings. Last year the FM focused on the high divorce rate among attendees. This year it focused on the growing proportion of female students, a point we explored in today's interview. The independent survey concluded that GIBS retained its top spot with UCT a close runner-up. The gap between these two and other business schools is growing. While I'm not likely to enlist for an MBA anytime soon, the newly betrothed Gugu was sufficiently impressed after the interview to consider enrolling before expanding her new family. If she does, it might be an idea to take hubbie along. Nicola Kleyn, who met her other halfn their MBA course argued that the high divorce rates among prospective MBAs is overstated. But admitted the course is such a strong growth stimulant that attendees sometimes re-assess their entire lives, marriage included. – AH
Watch the video interview here
ALEC HOGG: The Gordon Institute of Business Science (GIBS) and Graduate School of Business at UCT have opened a large gap between themselves and competitors and that's according to the latest Financial Mail MBA survey. We're here to talk about the MBA's and the man who put the survey together, David Furlonger from the Financial Mail and Dr Nicola Kleyn from GIBS who clearly rated very highly. We haven't yet got MBA's yet, you and I, Gugulethu Mfuphi.
GUGULETHU MFUPHI: No, not at all.
ALEC HOGG: I'm past it. You've still got lots of opportunities to get there one day.
GUGULETHU MFUPHI: I might just tackle it by the horns and do a PHD after that. Why not?
ALEC HOGG: Well, let's find out today whether it's worth doing. David, you can give us some insights. Why does the Financial Mail do a survey like this?
DAVID FURLONGER: Well, originally we were approached actually by WITS Business School and Cape Town's GSB. There had been various attempts to do these before but remarkably, the schools which finished top of the rankings tended to be those which had put the most advertising in, so we were asked to do an independent rating which we've been doing ever since. And it's in our readers' interests as well because clearly we're in the business environment and a lot of our readers either have MBA's or are planning them, so it's a great thing for us and usually it's our biggest-selling magazine of the year.
GUGULETHU MFUPHI: Just with regard to the research that you do there, in a nutshell. What exactly have you found over the years as you cover these stories?
DAVID FURLONGER: Well, what we have found is that there is more realism amongst people going into MBA's. A few years ago everyone assumed that if you went into an MBA it was your passport to promotion and riches. What we found very, very quickly with our research was that that wasn't the case – that if you went in with those ideas in mind, you were very disappointed. So what we found over the years is that those who were going in now have far more realistic expectations of what they can get. Now they're still looking – yes – for career progress, but they're looking really for general management education and the tools to progress. They realise now it's not an end in itself. It is simply giving them the tools to succeed.
GUGULETHU MFUPHI: So where does the problem come in? Is it with qualification criteria or the skills that they learn when studying an MBA or just the overall experience? Because obviously, to become an executive in a company you need to have a little bit more than just a paper to hold onto.
DAVID FURLONGER: When you say the problem, do you mean in terms of career and earnings?
GUGULETHU MFUPHI: In terms of the MBA not being entirely suited to the students. Well, previously not unrealistic expectations with regard to 'I get an MBA and I become an executive – pay increase, and the title is mine'. Where does the problem lie there? Where is the shortfall, in skills or in theory.
DAVID FURLONGER: There are a couple of problems. Internationally, if one looks at the recession of the last few years there have been far fewer openings for people coming out of business schools. Again, people go in. They expect to come out and catch a job, but when there's a recession there's no job to go into. So they become entrepreneurs. They set up their own businesses. Here you've had the problem over the years that there is a huge difference in the quality of MBA's. So one of the things which our survey shows is that there's a lot of business who haven't heard of a number of schools, so if you came out of some of those schools and you said 'I've got an MBA', then the company will say 'which school is it from?' You'll tell them and they'll say 'never heard of them'.
ALEC HOGG: But if you tell them it's GIBS, Nicola…
Dr NICOLA KLEYN: Well, you guys are looking at doing MBA's and our applications office is open until the 15th of November, so we're looking forward to seeing you on campus.
ALEC HOGG: How many of the MBA students get divorced?
Dr NICOLA KLEYN: You know, this is a fallacy. I met my husband on my MBA, so I'm really anti this notion of it being a divorce…
ALEC HOGG: But you were first married when you met him.
Dr NICOLA KLEYN: I wasn't married first. You know, we have far more children born on MBA's actually than divorces, which is interesting, because as we have more female participants on the degrees – and they're typically women who have learned to multitask really well. It's a question of time-management.
ALEC HOGG: Just tell us. How did Gibbs do so well in such a short period of time? What have you done differently?
Dr NICOLA KLEYN: We worked very hard to build strong relationships with business and that really helps us in two ways. I think in one way in terms of 'we're known by business. A significant part of the school also focuses on corporate education, which is open programs and customised programs. So from that perspective, we're known by business. The other thing is – to really differentiate the MBA – is to make sure that we're aligned to what business needs. There's an enormous crossover of professionals coming into Gibbs, who are then interacting with our students. So I suppose it's a part of our geographic location – being close to business – but also a strong area focus.
GUGULETHU MFUPHI: David mentioned earlier that there are some significant differences with regard to MBA's in the country and that also depends on the institution that you go into. How has GIBS managed to differentiate itself to become one of the top MBA institutions in the country?
Dr NICOLA KLEYN: I think you've got to look at the role accreditation plays. So we have two types of accreditation that are on everybody's minds at the moment. The one is Local South African Accreditation, and there was a major cleanout for the Council of Higher Education some years ago. It's absolutely critical that a student wanting to register for an MBA makes sure that their school is accredited with the Council of Higher Education. Increasingly though, we're finding that students are also looking at international accreditation and there are three main bodies there, so different schools are accredited with different bodies, but I think that's also a signal of quality. It's also an issue of who they meet and we're lucky now. It has taken a while but we're starting to get alumni's. We're hosting alumni's who joined – who started in 2001 –and the school started in 2000. So it becomes its own. It builds its own momentum as you have more and more alumni in the business school. But I think this issue of accreditation and of a quality degree. The other thing that I think is important is that students have good face-time. What happens in that classroom? It's caveat emptor. They need to be really careful that they're not signing up. As David has said, 'this notion that I have the piece of paper and that's my ticket to success'; It's what you did to get that piece of paper that's going to be your ticket to success.
ALEC HOGG: David, have you done any calculations on return on investment? I presume GIBS is more expensive than Henley or Potch or KZN. Would that give you the earning as your benefit reflective of what you pay for?
DAVID FURLONGER: We have done some research on that and it's interesting that you put GIBS up against Henley because there's actually not a lot of difference there. Henley of course, is an international school with a local office or a local school here as well. It's got international accreditation so it's expensive. It looks slightly at UK rates, but it's close to GIBS. One must also look at what you get for that money. With Gibbs for example, and some of the other schools the price you are paying includes the overseas study trip, all sorts of extras, and the books. With some of the other schools you're finding that you've got to add on another R40000/R50000 to what you think you're paying.
ALEC HOGG: So what would it cost you – a good MBA – in South Africa?
DAVID FURLONGER: A good MBA: If one looks at the internationally accredited schools then you're looking at – whether it's a part-time MBA or a full-time MBA – your basic cost, you're looking at R140 000/150000 upwards. And if you're with those good schools you do tend to get a good return on your investment. We've done informal, not full-time, or full-out research on this, and we've compared the schools and what the graduates from those schools get. And you do tend to find that; if you're at a school where you're paying 190000, it's difficult to get back that investment. But if you're at a school where you've only paid R3000, which is around the cheapest – actually no, it's a bit more than that; it's just over R4000 now – it's not that hard to get the investment back, so percentages are very difficult to compare.
ALEC HOGG: Gugulethu Mfuphi, we were talking earlier about that front page or the focus of this article on glass ceilings or..
GUGULETHU MFUPHI: Women in particular, yes. It does seem as though… Nicola, you might be able to provide slightly more insights on this, but it seems as though the glass ceiling for women who are qualified and enter to complete the MBA business studies – but not only that; moving into the business world after getting the qualification: that glass ceiling is not broken, but there are slight cracks coming through at the moment.
Dr NICOLA KLEYN: I think we certainly see that there are less women graduating. The quality of our female graduates – I did a little calculation the other day on looking at the average marks that women get versus the average marks that male graduates get – and women are higher. I didn't test it for significance, but they're scoring better. Not much changes. You know, I think back. I did my MBA in 1991 and we still had women there. I certainly wasn't aware of that ceiling as you put it. It's certainly nothing when we do surveys with our female and male students and we start asking about these kinds of barriers. We're not finding that students are feeling that and seeing it. So I think we do see it, but we've got to actually look at the stream before in terms of 'who's educated with what degrees?' because that creates our entrance pool. So when we start seeing that the entrance pool of suitably-qualified females is actually lower than suitably-qualified males, one is going to see it, but the situation is normalising.
GUGULETHU MFUPHI: It also seems as though it's a vicious cycle there, David, as well. Because we have less and less females – as you say – adequately qualified with undergrad degrees, but moving into MBA's. And then, in the business sphere as well there's not much space for a lot of females out there.
DAVID FURLONGER: There is a very low percentage of women in South African boardrooms so one could argue that 'why would you go through the pain of an MBA and the divorce of an MBA if you don't believe that there is scope for you out in the business world?' whereas I do think that schools are creating women who now believe that there are opportunities out there, that are prepared to fight harder. But that wall – that ceiling – is still there.
ALEC HOGG: Nice cover story – it really was.
Dr NICOLA KLEYN: Thank you.
GUGULETHU MFUPHI: Thank you so much for your insight. That was Dr Nicola Kleyn from GIBS as well as David Furlonger from the Financial Mail.